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In Australia, An Ebay Sale is a Sale
syousef writes "An eBay sale is a sale says an Australian New South Wales State Judge in a case where a man tried to reneg on the Ebay sale of a 1946 World War II Wirraway aircraft. The seller tried to weasel out of the deal because he'd received a separate offer $100,000 greater than the Ebay sale price. The buyer who had bid the reserve price of $150,000 at the last minute took him to court. 'It follows that, in my view, a binding contract was formed between the plaintiff and the defendant and that it should be specifically enforced,' Justice Rein said in his decision." I haven't found anything like this in previous discussions; have there been similar decisions like this handed down in the US, Canada, or Europe?
Once the auction is complete, it's a sale. Sales are sales, and cannot be reversed after the fact without willingness of both parties, or extenuating circumstances such as a faulty product.
What you're talking about (e.g. "No, you can't have another beer") would actually be the pre-sale negotiations. After the money has been handed over in a store and accepted, the sale has been started. So the bartender had better either give you your beer, or have a good reason under contract law for not doing so. (e.g. If a contract is impossible to fulfill, it can often be reversed. For example: If I sold you a beer, but another employee just drew the last pint for another customer, I would return you your money as it's now impossible for me to give you the beer you ordered.)
The big difference between a bar and eBay is that the contract is agreed to by both parties as soon as the auction ends. Thus the money doesn't have to change hands before the contract goes into effect. This is similar to a sit-down restaurant where you order and consume your food prior to paying. As soon as you order and your order is accepted, the contract is in effect. You imply that you agree to pay for your meal when you order.
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Many sellers of high-value items on eBay throw in a line like "the seller reserves the right to cancel this auction for any reason," which I imagine would leave the seller the option to go with some sort of last-minute offer like the one in this case. However, said high offer would be outside eBay, and therefore not subject to any of the protections against fraud or simply chinging one's mind in the eBay system.
I'm not much of a fan of how things are done on eBay, but I do know there are proper ways for sellers to tailor eBay's system a bit more toward to what they want to do.
But there are right ways to use the buying process as well. If Mr. $250,000 was all that into buying the plane, why didn't he simply bid on the auction? He might have even beat the high bidder with a lower price.
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That wouldn't be far wrong with a Wirraway. They were a locally built copy of the North American NA-16 Texan trainer, and were fitted with two Vickers machine guns more as an act of desperation than hope.
RAAF guys flying 8 of them took on more than 100 Japanese aircraft during a raid on Rabaul. The results were pretty much what you'd expect.
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What I wonder about is when a bidder cancels the auction just before close. In one case, I had a really good price on an item, and just before ending the seller closed the auction with the reason "item was found to be lost/broken"
I watched the seller for awhile to see if he re-listed and tried to sell the same item, as I think he just didn't get the high bids he had hoped for, but after a while said to heck with it. What would the obligations of a seller be in this case?
In this case, the bidder met the reserve, so the seller has to sell it at that price. The Australian is merely following basic contract law, which is pretty much the same as here in the U.S.
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I think MOST shunned buyers would just be a little disappointed and get on with their lives
That's true for all the miscellany whatnot that changes hands on eBay. The article in question here is over 6 figures and for a vintage aircraft of which there are only 5 left in the world. Not a knicknack that dozens of sellers are peddling. This is hardly a whiny loser with a frivolous case.
I find this interesting. If you advertise something for sale, shouldn't you have to sell it? Not everywhere, apparently.
Nearly all the firearms-specific versions of EBay, like gunbroker.com, are filled with offerings of used guns that basically say "Subject to prior sale. I'm putting up this web page but if someone comes in my shop and gives me money, you're out of luck. If I decide I don't like you, you're out of luck." This strikes me as quite unfair and unprofessional.
Even some professional-looking web sites that sell things don't really offer them for sale. If you go to Charles Double Reed looking for a new bassoon to purchase, you can't just put it in your shopping cart and send them money. Oh, no. The disclaimer ("Clicking the add to my cart button below does not guarantee that this instrument will be available to you.") makes it clear that they get to decide if you're the kind of person they want to do business with.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've seen those "No shoes, no shirt, no service" signs. I realize sellers have a right to decide who they want to do business with. But this whole business of offering things for sale and then jerking them back at the last second, seemingly at random, just strikes me as symbolic of a "I don't have to follow any nominal rules of social interaction; I make my own" mindset that seems more and more common these days.
Are people just getting ruder, stupider, and prouder of it?
I had a similar situation occur (on a much smaller scale) while in high school. Isn't this pretty well established law? Once you agree sell something you can't back out because you get a higher offer.
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You know, I remember eBay motors working that way as well. The idea was that the auctions would be used to set a sale price prior to the finalization of the contract, subject to an agreeable price and inspection of the vehicle. However, eBay must have changed things because I can't find any references to the eBay car auctions being non-binding.
I imagine that eBay decided it was better to offer VIN lookup services rather than deal with the hassle of bids that don't go through.
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"Thus the money doesn't have to change hands before the contract goes into effect."
This is probably a mistake in the long run, because now we'll start fiddling around with when a contract is in effect. For example, if an auction can only be paid for via PayPal, and the person bids, wins, and then doesn't pay for a few days, is there a sale or not?
If you leave it at "once money changes hands, it's a contract", then it's simple to remember and enforce. It's better for everyone, because it encourages the buyer to get the money to the seller as quickly as possible. And the buyer knows as soon as he pays for it, it's his, even if not in his possession.
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
Wait a minute...Wasn't the war over in 1945? Why is there a 1946 WWII airplane, or am I missing something?
Nobody thought the offer was too good to be true? I think the court may have saved this guy from a fraudulent buyer. Who offers 100,000 over the sales price without being in the bidding? That alone is a red flag. How many times are sellers items up for bid send offers outside the auction channel offering more money but avoiding pay-pal and etc. Here is an extra $5,000 for the item. Please forward 2,000 to my shipping agent by Western Union and keep the extra 3,000 for yourself.
Just what were the terms of the offer outside the auction channel?
The court decision may have saved the seller a bundle of money.
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Once the auction ends, a binding sales agreement has ben formed, under contract law. Once bidding starts, the auction cannot be stopped and the item must be sold to the highest bidder, unless a reserve has been specified before the auction begins. Bids may be retracted before the sale is complete, but once the auctioneer announces that the item has been sold, the highest un-retracted bid is binding.