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id and Valve May Be Violating GPL

frooge writes "With the recent release of iD's catalog on Steam, it appears DOSBox is being used to run the old DOS games for greater compatibility. According to a post on the Halflife2.net forums, however, this distribution does not contain a copy of the GPL license that DOSBox is distributed under, which violates the license. According to the DOSBox developers, they were not notified that it was being used for this release."

26 of 399 comments (clear)

  1. Does this mean by BiggestPOS · · Score: 5, Funny

    I can get a copy of the source for Half-Life 2?

    --
    What, me worry?
    1. Re:Does this mean by El_Muerte_TDS · · Score: 5, Informative

      No. It means that they violate copyright law because they didn't conform to the GPL terms. If it's true, they are illegally distributing the software called: DOSbox.

      It doesn't mean any code of the old DOS iD games has to be released. Only modifications they might have made to DOSbox will have to be made public.

      It's due to the work of the DOSbox creators that VALVe and iD can sell their old software and people can enjoy it. Yet the DOSbox creators don't get any credit for their work. And that is a major shame.

    2. Re:Does this mean by porkThreeWays · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This sort of thing isn't always on purpose. Some people think "open source" means they can use the code however they please. Programmers aren't always license experts. It seems so simple to us because we are around these terms on slashdot constantly, but there have been times where I made assumptions about close source code licenses that could have gotten me into the same trouble. The legal department doesn't review every single decision in an organization and its possible legal implications. It could have been a few guys that just didn't understand the GPL and it was missed because it wasn't the largest project in the company. Not defending them, but not everyone understands "open source" isn't the same as public domain.

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    3. Re:Does this mean by Daniel+Phillips · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This sort of thing isn't always on purpose. Some people think "open source" means they can use the code however they please. John Carmack understands perfectly what the GPL is all about, and surely nobody needs to be reminded what a huge contributer he is to open source and open standards. Certainly an oversight and public humiliation is not in order.
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    4. Re:Does this mean by mfnickster · · Score: 5, Informative

      Also, since it appears DOSBox is under the GPL and not the LGPL, this WOULD require the source code of these games (as well as graphics, audio and any other components distributed along with DOSBox) to be publicly released. (That whole "viral" thing people talk about)

      No, it would only require them to provide the source for their modified DOSBox.

      The GPL is clear that using a Free program to execute or operate on proprietary data leaves the data under its original ownership and licensing.

      - Nick

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    5. Re:Does this mean by bluephone · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You're right, and I'm 100% certain that John did all the packaging of the old games himself, by hand, using DEBUG on an 8086 and monochrome screen.

      In reality, this was a business deal between id and Valve, and id probably handed over the playable binaries, and Value handed them to a small group to prepare for distribution and installation over Steam. So rather than blaming id, or claiming Valve did this with evil intent, let us combine two very powerful pieces of wisdom, "Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence," and Occam's razor. It is most easily assumed that when Valve handed off the data to be packaged, the worked had the best of intentions by using DOSbox, but was inadequately informed about it's proper use and redistribution.

      --
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    6. Re:Does this mean by Hadlock · · Score: 5, Informative

      Yeah, I went to his keynote Friday night; there were a lot of technical questions, and at the same time a lot of questions about steam, etc. At one point someone asked him about porting Doom to Steam and he flat out said "wow, that's pretty cool, I hadn't heard about that yet, but it seems neat".... He's very much on the research side of things and made it very clear that while he's still the posterboy for iD, he has very little control or even desire to muck about with marketing and corperate politics, though at the same time he also said that they were very proud of their decision to ultimately open source everything, and have made many design decisions in the past that have limited them because they wouldn't then be able to open source fully at a later point (he also pointed out that at some point in the future, iD tech 5 would become open source, too).
       
      +5, informative.
       

      --
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    7. Re:Does this mean by Dhalka226 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It seems so simple to us because we are around these terms on slashdot constantly

      It's not simple at all. Start a discussion here about under what circumstances you do or do not need to distribute source and you'll still get a 20 post long thread with people going back and forth about who's right and who's wrong, debating what the words used in the license mean, etc.

      And people here should be some of the "experts" on the license.

    8. Re:Does this mean by GalionTheElf · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Can't believe this hasn't been pointed out yet but neither iD nor Valve are exactly garage enterprises. These are pretty big companies and you know, I find it really hard to believe that this never went past a lawyer. Programmers don't have to know anything at all about licenses and stuff like that because that's what the rest of the company is for.

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    9. Re:Does this mean by GPL+Apostate · · Score: 4, Funny

      The only thing people here are 'experts' on is flaming each other.

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      Microsoft says legacy (serial/parallel) ports are bad. They don't obfuscate the hardware enough.
    10. Re:Does this mean by SpectreHiro · · Score: 5, Informative

      Can't believe this hasn't been pointed out yet but neither iD nor Valve are exactly garage enterprises. These are pretty big companies and you know, I find it really hard to believe that this never went past a lawyer. Programmers don't have to know anything at all about licenses and stuff like that because that's what the rest of the company is for.

      I'd hardly call id or Valve pretty big companies. Valve currently lists 104 employees, and id only 34.

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    11. Re:Does this mean by mrchaotica · · Score: 5, Informative

      Bullshit!

      "Open Source" can mean one of two things:

      • That you can see the source code. Nothing more, nothing less. This is the literal definition, and the one most normal people (as well as MS) subscribe to.
      • That it means the same thing as "Free Software" -- i.e., licensed in such a way to preserve freedom -- except that it may or may not be copyleft. This is the OSI definition.

      In neither case does it mean "public domain," which is what you're thinking of.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  2. Outdated Article by TychoCelchuuu · · Score: 5, Informative

    Valve/iD already updated the games with the required files. Old, incorrect news.

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    Against stupidity the Gods themselves contend in vain.
    1. Re:Outdated Article by RDW · · Score: 5, Informative

      Yes, here's the link:

      http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1 28297&page=5

      Looks more like an oversight than a deliberate violation.

    2. Re:Outdated Article by LWATCDR · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "I can't see how it could be an oversight. "
      A better question would be why would they do it intently?
      Id has often released their old game engines under the GPL.
      1. They had noting to gain by not including the license files.
      2. They fixed it as soon as they found they had left out the files.
      3. They did no harm to anyone.

      So why must you try to see evil when all the evidence points to a simple human error?

      This is why GPL zealots get on my nerves. They are all for copyleft, they hate closes source licenses, they hate software patents, and they hate DRM. But if someone fails to cross every t and dot every i when distributing GPL code then they are are plotting villains.

      They made a minor error and they fixed the error all before it even showed up on Slashdot.

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  3. Re:Avoiding The Viral GPL by MBCook · · Score: 4, Informative

    Yes. It's not like iD has released anything GLP before.

    Oh, wait...

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  4. Developers not notified... so what! by EmbeddedJanitor · · Score: 5, Informative
    GPL violations aside, there is no need to notify the developers if you intend to use code under GPL.

    The only time you'd need to contact the developers is if you want to get an alternative license. Quite often people will release code under GPL and also be prepared to release it under alternative licenses, perhaps for a fee.

    --
    Engineering is the art of compromise.
  5. Just to be clear by also-rr · · Score: 5, Informative
    Before anyone jumps on the summary for being incorrect - there is no need to notify a developer when you use or distribute GPL software. However if you want to distribute in violation of the license then there are only two ways:

    1. Get the developer to waive the license (hasn't happened according to summary, which was worth mentioning as it means the only option is (2))
    2. Pile a huge stack of cash in a vault to pay off copyright violation damages


    The third option, which isn't usually available when you screw up with non-free software, is to apologise really fast and comply with the GPL*. Although there are no guarantees free software developers are usually nice folks who can overlook a mistake.

    It is one reason why all the 'viral' fud about the GPL is so annoying (not that it applies to this case, as there is no derivative product, but it usually rears it's ugly head in these threads). All the GPL does is give you an Option Three which isn't usually available - you would be in court for damages instead of sitting across a table from a bunch of altrustic techies seeking a negotiated solution.

    *Historically stopping distribution and rewriting the offending module usually is an option too, depending on how antagonistic you were before admitting your mistake.
  6. Could you vultures wait? by Time+Doctor · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It hasn't even been a working week even before the people who gave us great things like the GPL'd quake 1/2/3 source got jumped on for slighting you trolls.

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    1. Re:Could you vultures wait? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't really know why ID are being blamed for this, since Valve is the distributor. Unlike ID, who gave us GPL'd Doom, Quake, etc, Valve gave us DRM'd Half Life, and deserve no sympathy when they get caught infringing copyright.

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      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  7. Transparently divisive rubbish. by Ed+Black · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Small oversight by (on id's part) a hugely prolific developer of GPL'd software. Easily corrected and pushed out to clients straight away.

    Attacking John Carmack for this precipitately is basically irrational. It also stinks of divisive trolling.

    The man's licensed (a great deal of) his own software under the GPL, for goodness' sake.

  8. Now there's a reason to port Steam to Linux by FliesLikeABrick · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Steam now has a reason to be ported to Linux. A lot of the new id games added to Steam play natively on Linux, there are others that use DOSbox, which conveniently works on Linux as well. If Valve ports Steam to Linux... it'd open the door for Linux users to easily buy and play these games, and I'm sure enough people would such that it makes business sense for them to do it.

  9. Re:Aren't they being lazy? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Informative

    The old games are largely written in x86 assembly language. They do not use libraries for interacting with the machine, they issue DOS system calls and [video] BIOS calls directly. Porting them to other platforms would effectively mean re-writing them. You could add an abstraction layer, replacing the low-level calls with library calls, and then write a library that would translate these into something higher-level. Or you could use a generic version of this; a DOS emulator. Doom and Quake were written in a mixture of C and assembly, and the assembly often had fall-back routines. Quake had an abstraction layer long before the open source release, with VESA, DirectDraw, X11 and OpenGL versions.

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  10. Actually, you're wrong by Rix · · Score: 4, Informative

    The worst judgement that can be brought against a GPL violator is an injunction preventing further distribution. The GPL does not have any provisions to deny the license to those who have violated it, and so any violators can simply rectify their procedures and continue.

    Thus, the GPL *does* allow you to fix problems retroactively.

  11. Re:Avoiding The Viral GPL by BitZtream · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And this sort of thing is the reason companies are afraid of GPL. Back in reality, silly things like this are ignored because someone notices the mistake, fixes the problem, the authors of the original software are fine with it because it was a silly mistake that MADE NO DIFFERENCE TO ANYONE OTHER THAN PEOPLE PRETENDING TO BE LAWYERS. On the other hand, now big companies that could help make GPL'd software more common to the everyday user are now more afraid of using it. Why should they, its cheaper to pay for commercial software than to deal with all the bad press that can come from an honest mistake made by a bunch of raving GPL fanboys. Yes, I'm more than slightly annoyed with this kind of license bullshit.

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  12. Not Fixed, more serious GPL violation by karmatic · · Score: 5, Informative

    Just downloaded the pack. It's using a modified, binary-only dosbox. They have added the license and thanks.txt back, however, it still is infringing.

    I copied dosbox.exe to a seperate directory, and it complained about missing SDL dlls. Using stock SDL dlls, it says "Failed to find steam". As such, they are distributing a modified binary-only version of a GPL application. Given the distribution has already happened, they are legally obligated to distribute the source code to the steam "stub" present in their dosbox application. Failing that, they are guilty of some serious copyright infringment, and statutory damages can be huge.

    I suspect it wouldn't look good in court having a very large, well-known software company stealing code from little guys, and using it as the foundation for a significant commercial project. This also makes it look willfull, as opposed to accidental infringement. Furthermore, given iD's technology licensing platform, which includes significant GPL distribution, they would have a hard time claiming ignorance.