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FBI Raids Home of Suspected NSA Leaker
During the hours that Congress was debating codifying the Bush administration's wiretapping by revising the FISA law, the Department of Justice was raiding the home of former Justice official Thomas M. Tamm to identify the person who first brought the illicit program to light: "The agents seized Tamm's desktop computer, two of his children's laptops and a cache of personal files... the raid was related to a Justice criminal probe into who leaked details of the warrantless eavesdropping program to the news media... James X. Dempsey of the Center for Democracy and Technology said the raid was 'amazing' and shows the administration's misplaced priorities: using FBI agents to track down leakers instead of processing intel warrants to close the [purported surveillance] gaps."
James X. Dempsey of the Center for Democracy and Technology said the raid was 'typical' of the administration's misplaced priorities: using any government branch to track down anyone they percieve as disloyal instead of processing intel warrants to close the [purported surveillance] gaps."
Fuckers. Its not enough for them to lose the election. We should be seeing jail time for this sort of overreaching corruption.
I feel safer, already.
Thank God we're finally catching these damned terrorists. I hope he hangs.
Actions like these are the difference between a fascist dictatorship and a democracy (yes, even though the USA is a republic, it is also ment to be a democracy so don't bring it up thanks).
Saying that "The State" is right no matter what, is fascist. Currently the government is purging or minimalizing the non-fascist elements within the state. Of course they're doing it on the path of least resistance, so they're keeping up the veil of the justice system, but with the swampy legal system, far reaching laws and by simply ignoring basic rights (habeas corpus, etc.), without means to challenge the state it is a mere facade.
It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
Be yourself no matter what they say
Without the leaker, we -- the American public -- would still be in the dark. Without the leaker, our government would still be conducting warrantless wiretapping. The leaker actually helped to strengthen our democracy. He did not endanger it.
Yet, why is Washington trying to send the leaker to federal prison? This massive raid by the FBI smacks of Russian-style fascism.
No need. Merely read the Constitution. Its in there in black and white that this is illegal.
I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
Who is really REALLY afriad of a "national emergency" that requires a "temporary extension of the current administration" happening in the next year or so? And not just in the sarcastic "it would figure" kind of way, but a "it might actually happen, then what?!" kind of way.
To boldly use to and too two times and get it right too! They're not gonna believe their eyes when they see it there!
and getting states, banks, credit companies, airlines, etc. to do massive data collection. And it's not like it started with them - the FBI wiretap enthusiasts like Louis Freeh, the NSA anti-public-crypto people, the Echelon project, etc. all date to the Clinton or GHWBush/Reagan administrations or earlier.
It's going to take a *long* time to tear down that stuff and turn this back into America again, and most of that won't happen unless we replace the current Executive Branch with one that's actually committed to doing it. Most of the major candidates aren't talking like that - certainly Hillary and Rudy and John Edwards and McCain and Romney don't have a history of wanting to do that, and you're pretty much down to Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul before you'd get to anybody who'd talk about that kind of concept as a campaign strategy. Perhaps if the Democrats not only win the White House but also increase their control of the Senate and House they'll have some willingness to do that after a couple of years.
For now, though, Homeland Security Anonymous Spokescritters report that Enhanced Terrorist Surveillance Program has been reporting increased frequency of terrorist chatter saying "Booga Booga", so if you're even suggesting that we decrease wiretapping then you're a threat to national security and our precious bodily fluids.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
I was researching the USA PATRIOT Act for Wikipedia, and all those people like Orin Kerr insisted that the changes to FISA wouldn't lead to abuses. Guess we can see what a hollow promise that was.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
If a secret service agent raped your sister and then the President declared his identity "classified" would it be okay for your sister to say who did it? She's be outing a CIA member and leaking information that was deemed classified?
Now, that was an extreme example. But it would be a situation that would leave one person wronged - your sister. Warrantless wiretaps left countless people wronged and in ways we will never know.
By your logic - the government can do whatever it wants whenever it wants and call it classified and if anyone talks about it they go to jail. That would be something that Saddaam would have done. Or Hitler.
The purpose of the raid is as much to deter others who are thinking of exposing government wrongdoing as it is to punnish Mr Tamm.
A totally transparent populace ruled by a totally secret Government is the perfect model of national security!
[Republican parody mode off]
--- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
However, there is a difference between the US and the UK. The last time the Met became really corrupt, the Hertfordshire Police Force was called in to investigate them. (Disclaimer: Guess where I grew up.) Even so, it happened, and a significant number of Met officers were exposed. This is one example of why separate and independent police forces with local rather that national accoujntability are such a good idea.
The problem is, who will investigate the FBI? That seems to be the fundamental weakness of the US system. In the UK, MI5 and MI6 have no powers of arrest. They have to get in regular police to arrest suspects. Although clunky, this provides a check and balance. If the FBI is corrupted or ordered by the Administration to do corrupt things, who is to stop them?
Pining for the fjords
What's the big deal? I mean, the last time the president hunted someone down on a political vendetta regarding a leak, he ended up commuting the sentence before a single minute of jail time was served. Or are we cynical enough to think that he did that only because Scooter Libby is a Republican?
Oh, wait. Yeah, I guess we are.
See: H Amdt 674. He voted to prevent the federal government from enforcing federal anti-drug laws which conflicted with state laws.
I don't see how you could possibly consider him a neo-con. He's clearly an honest conservative. He's strongly against being in Iraq. He voted against the homeland security act and the patriot act. He voted in favor of the whistleblower protection act of 2007.
He's consistent. He voted against an act to prohibit cloning while at the same time voting against anything that would fund cloning. He's just against federal power.
Remember that it's all too easy for the federal government to gain more power. It's near impossible to force them to lose any power. If Ron Paul causes the federal government to give too much power back to the states then rest assured that future presidents will pull it back. But we should be grateful for any reprieve from the constant power grabbing that's going on in DC right now.
You can see his entire voting record at: Ron Paul voting record.
Cow Cube
Individuals simply do not have the right to expose secret programs even if they do not like them. If you are angry about this but support the prosecution of Scooter Libby then you have some explaining to do ( particularly when Scooter leaked NOTHING; it was Bush critic Richard Armitage in the State Department who did the actual Valerie Plame leaking ) If this guy really did the leak, then he hurt national security by tipping-off enemies. It matters not if most enemies assumed we were listening; if even ONE enemy did not think of it but was clued-in by the leak then harm was done. If he leaked but the program ultimately is found to be an illegal program and people involved in the program are sent off to jail, then the leaker should get leniency as Scooter got a break... but even if you like this leak, it is still NO LESS ILLEGAL to DO the leak.
Jack Bauer is in the super secret NSA communication intercept room along with various other people.
...
Unnamed extra #1: "Sir, you need to see this. It's Osama's cell phone! And the call is coming across OUR circuit!"
JB: "Dammit! He's up to something. I want that call intercepted and get me a translator! I want to know what he's saying and to whom he is saying it!"
Unnamed extra #2: "But sir, if we don't get a warrant within the next 72 hours, that will be ILLEGAL!"
JB: "No problem. I only need 24. Just tap that call!"
JB walks over to a different phone and picks it up.
JB: "Get me the FISA court! This is an emergency!"
Begin one-way telephone communication bit
JB: "I have an emergency and I need a warrant! No, I'm not going to wait! Yes, I will be right over! That's right, I want your Liberal judge ass sitting on that bench when I arrive!"
JB slams down the phone and walks over to unnamed extra #1.
JB: "Are you getting it all?"
UE#1: "Yes sir. Will there be a problem with the warrant?"
JB: "Not as long as I still have 3 days to get it there won't be."
JB then grabs some paper work and runs to his car. He then races across D.C. avoiding enemy mines, fighter aircraft and snipers. He screeches to a halt outside of the Court and runs up the steps. He slams open the door to the judge's chambers and throws the paperwork at him.
JB: "Listen, you have less than 71 hours and 26 minutes to sign that warrant or I'll have your terrorist loving Liberal ass!"
Unnamed Judge: "Always nice to see you, Jack. Here's your warrant. Let's see, that leaves you 71 hours and 24 minutes to get back to your secret spy base. Can you manage that this time without speeding or running over anything? Hmmmmm?"
JB: "You Liberal judges make me sick! My ass is on the line every time I have to drive over here! Good bye!"
JB then runs down to his car, notices the parking ticket on the windshield and throws it away. He then gets in and races back to work. Avoiding various mines, attacking aircraft and snipers.
Yes, the "ACLU types" are really trying to "slow down the wiretaps". 72 hours is just not enough time to get a warrant. What if JB had to take some time off to go look at swatches with his wife? What if he wanted to maybe take a couple of days in Reno when a terrorist call was coming in? Maybe there was a concert he wanted to go see! It's just too much to ask for them to process the paperwork in only THREE DAYS!
If you think /. is far left that probably means you're so far out in right field you can't see the game anymore. Let go of the partisan outlook a little bit, eh?
Slashdot has a heavy libertarian bias, particularly on social issues, and isn't particularly well represented by either mainstream party. The wannabe-fascist trend in the Republican party lately has made them particularly reviled here, but there's little love for the Democrats, especially their ties to the entertainment industry. If we have a Democrat president, expect /. bitching about the RIAA and MPAA to increase even beyond its already prodigious levels. On the other hand, the fact that Hillary is actually a viable presidential candidate is probably Bush's fault, too. ;)
Besides, honestly now. Slashdot? Not complaining about politics? Madness!
"Read these eye witness accounts reported by the BBC and decide for your self."
You really haven't been paying attention have you? Notice that both of these articles are from the first day of the shooting, where the media was full of misinformation. Both of the articles you list are full of "facts" that are now heavily disputed and is completely at odds with the findings of the independent police complaints commission.
See the Wikipedia article or this article in the Torygraph.
1. De Menezes was wearing a light denim jacket.
2. He was given no warning that an innocent man could understand. From the IPCC commissioner: "There is no action he could have consciously taken that would have saved him".
3. De Menezes passed through the barrier normally using his pre-paid Oyster card. He did not run or jump the barrier as some eyewitnesses had claimed.
What I find so sadly amusing about hardcore righties like him (he's a talk radio radical, loves Savage, Rush, Hannity, etc) is that they can ignore the evidence of Bush lying us into war, abusing our civil rights, exposing CIA agents, fucking the economy, ass-fucking the environment, tea-bagging the military, and tubgirling the entire Iraq war, but it's the "wetback crisis" that finally has them upset. But oh, they blame this on those goddamn liberals who think that the rights of "furriners" are more important than honest "murricans", along with venom for Bush "going along with them," but they never stop to ask "Who the fuck is employing all these illegals?" They may be illegal but they ain't dumb, they wouldn't be coming here if there wasn't any work! Go after the people employing them and you'll see the flow stop. But who makes the money off of that? Republican-owned businesses. Aaaaaaah, now we see the truth. Obviously it's a fucking liberal conspiracy to get these wetbacks in here working for Republicans. *Jolly twirls finger beside head*
I do wish the dems were as effective political creatures as the talk radio radicals seem to think they are. Shit, with the amount of opposition they're allegedly putting up, Bush should have been impeached already. Back in reality-land, all I see them doing is asking Bush if he'd like a rimjob to go with all that ass-kissing they're doing.
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
What threats? That a lady in San Diego with the cheese and ice packs? It was all a load of bullshit.
Your government, working to scare the shit out of you since 9/11.
The Doormat
If you're not outraged, then you're not paying attention.
I'm not sure what makes you think Constitutional rights don't apply to military members, but I'll promise you you're wrong. There are some limitations, but they are the same as most employers' limits on their employees (IE you can't associate your company with your own political opinion etc etc.)
The military has a few extensions on their limitations due to UCMJ but all members of the US military still retain their constitutional rights.
As for your comments about ignoring commands, that is specifically against the UCMJ so it's unlikely to happen unless there were a complete military coup. In which case, there are so many checks and balances against that happening, it's a seriously unlikely scenario. And each member of congress, the President, Vice-President and all members of the military swear an oath. that oath is to the Constitution of the United States, no one else. I'd like to see more people in those positions remembering their oaths and acting accordingly.
So whether he broke a law or not, the leaker was definitely upholding the Constitution, which is, in theory, the highest law we have in this country. He therefore did his duty to uphold the constitution (though he likely didn't take such an oath) and was far more "in the right" than if he had kept quiet about it. There are also "whistle blower" laws to protect him and his family in just such an event. Why is the current administration not extending him the courtesy of these laws I wonder?
When a company, any company is breaking the law in their business practices, it is an employees duty to report that company. So how do you get around the "illegal" disclosure of an illegal act? You accept the possible consequences, knowing that in the end you did what was right, whether it was legal or not.
"Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
Uhm... the bills signed into law determine what is "legal" and "illegal." Something isn't legal just because the president says it is.
There were laws put in place regulating surveillance. These laws are very clear in what is allowed, and what is not. This program completely ignored those laws, and sidestepped the oversight mandated by those laws. There are laws regulating what can and cannot be secret. This program fell outside the bounds of all those established laws.
It isn't partisan BS. This is between those who believe the US is based on the Constitution, and those who believe the President should hold powers above all others.
And public servants should do the "moral" thing in any administration, even the nicest, bunny-loving, thriving economy, no-war-abroad President. We should all do the moral thing, including monitoring the activities of the government (including the President), and holding them to a higher standard of ethics. They are, after all, representing all of us. Their actions reflect our own morality by proxy.
This is only a partisan issue because the PR has spun it into a partisan issue. If this had happened during the Clinton years, those who defend the current president would've been at the head of the lynch mob. Let's stop caring to which party these immoral, selfish sons-of-bitches belong, and start holding them all accountable.
Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
Um - you've been listening in on so many rightwing strawman attacks, I think a herd of cattle decided to bed down in your eardrum, and has filled your skull with cow shit.
What you are calling "The left" does back the respect of other cultures.
But if you think that means that the same political movement that fought for a womans right to vote in this country, wants a far-right fascist religious culture that treats its women like cattle, then you're grossly mistaken.
It's a strawman attack. And a retarded one, at that.
There is no liberal who supports Sharia law, or wants "Radical Islam" to take over the West.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.