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Microsoft Questions FCC's 'White Spaces' Decision

narramissic writes "Late last month a wireless prototype submitted by Microsoft and other members of the White Spaces Coalition was rejected by the FCC because it interfered with cable channels. Microsoft, though, claims that the device was malfunctioning when the FCC tested it. From the article: 'In a letter to the FCC Monday, Microsoft said the scanner in one of two prototypes was damaged and "operated at a severely degraded level. The damaged scanner accounted for the entire discrepancy between the Microsoft and the FCC bench test data," said Ed Thomas, a consultant for the White Spaces Coalition and a former chief of the FCC's Office of Engineering and Technology.'"

23 of 142 comments (clear)

  1. Soemthing smells fishy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I find it highly unlikely that a Microsoft product would unexpectedly malfunction.

    1. Re:Soemthing smells fishy by bobstaff · · Score: 5, Funny

      Me too. I expect them to malfunction.

    2. Re:Soemthing smells fishy by eli+pabst · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yes, in my experience I have never had a Microsoft product set so double the killer delete select all.

      /Obligatory

    3. Re:Soemthing smells fishy by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If a malfunction results in a failure of the local TV signal rather than resulting in a failure of the device, the FCCs decision is the right one.

      Devices are expected to fail. Given a long enough timeframe, ALL of them fail.

      --
      -1 Uncomfortable Truth
    4. Re:Soemthing smells fishy by Intron · · Score: 5, Funny

      "given that Microsoft never says anything but lies"

      A Microsoft PR guy and a linux kernel developer are standing at the entrance to a cave, but you don't know which is which. The cave contains either a dragon or a treasure. The MS guy always lies. The kernel developer never says anything that you could understand. Think of one question that you can ask which will tell you whether to enter the cave.

      --
      Intron: the portion of DNA which expresses nothing useful.
    5. Re:Soemthing smells fishy by Monoliath · · Score: 2, Funny

      This sounds like one of the BEST IT jokes I've ever heard...what's the punchline? (if there is one)...

    6. Re:Soemthing smells fishy by dosquatch · · Score: 3, Funny

      "I'm from the RIAA, and I'm here to help."

      This will get no useful reaction from the MS troll, but if the other guy grabs me by the throat and throws me into the cave...

      I know I don't want to be there.

      --
      "Hey, the third matrix movie would have been good except for the plot,story, and acting." --AC
  2. We Need Wireless Broadband by grumpygrodyguy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Well...I'm rooting for MS on this one. Some 3rd world countries have better wireless broadband access than we do.

    The telecom and cable monopolies are holding the FCC in their pockets and stifling innovation.

    --
    The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky
    1. Re:We Need Wireless Broadband by AK+Marc · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Some 3rd world countries have better wireless broadband access than we do.

      Well, they should. For a small number of users and no existing infrastructure, wireless is completely superior. However, we have copper lines to almost every house. We get broadband to the home, and wireless is only as good as necessary between the billion or so copper lines run all around. The only places with successful wireless are the places where the copper wires aren't being used effectively for high-speed Internet. You can't put the population of NYC on wireless broadband. The density will not allow everyone to have broadband speeds.

  3. Responsibility by kaleco · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I would imagine it's the applicant's responsibility to supply a functioning prototype. Otherwise it's like retroactively claiming you were feeling unwell when you sat your finals and didn't get the grade you were hoping for.

    --
    Prosperity is only an instrument to be used, not a deity to be worshipped. Calvin Coolidge
  4. FUD -- Microsoft needs to prove it works by dwarmstr · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The whole point of FCC testing is to confirm the device works to specifications and doesn't violate FCC rules regarding emissions. It failed, and Microsoft needs to submit their design again. To imply the FCC was somehow faulty as is suggested by the "White Spaces" industry wag man (who also is one of those in-and-out regulatory-to-industry guys) is classic FUD. Fix your prototype, MS, and the FCC will certify it.

    1. Re:FUD -- Microsoft needs to prove it works by SpaceLifeForm · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Apparently there was a backup device, but the FCC did not use it.

      Link

      --
      You are being MICROattacked, from various angles, in a SOFT manner.
    2. Re:FUD -- Microsoft needs to prove it works by dwarmstr · · Score: 3, Informative

      I'd still be rooting for the FCC, which enforces the law. Radio spectrum is precious and already suffers enough interference. The FCC already caved on some rules when they approved the horrific broadband-over-power lines.

  5. Re:So this wasn't by bleh-of-the-huns · · Score: 2, Insightful

    While I agree with you, the fact that a malfunctioning unit could cause a major disruption in service to those around you is still a significant problem. The odds of every device shipping (however many thousands or millions) without a flaw is pretty slim. That being said, more work will need to be done to prevent such an outage should there be a flaw or a malfunction before it passes the FCC.

    For the record, I am no fan of either MS or the FCC, but in this case, I would probably side with the FCC.

    --
    I came, I conquered, I coredumped
  6. Forgive my apparent ignorance but... by Monoliath · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...isn't this exactly what the FCC wants to avoid happening? Failing devices mucking up other channels?

    So what's the point of Microsoft saying 'oh, it was screwing up when you were testing it'...

    If it mucks up other channels while it is malfunctioning it's not going to be commissioned...that's the whole point of testing it...isn't it?

    If it doesn't mess up other channels while it's working fine, then fine...but the whole idea that when it malfunctions it interferes with other transmissions...is the perfect reason not to pass this thing in my mind.

  7. Cool, Microsoft Inside... by WindowlessView · · Score: 2, Funny

    Every cable system gets a free Phishing Network channel.

    --
    Leave the gun, take the cannolis.
  8. MSFT needs to understand "fail safe" by SmoothTom · · Score: 4, Insightful

    With any product that can disrupt other services - in this instance, taking out your neighbor's TV reception or data link if the "scanner" doesn't detect the "channel" is already in use - the product needs to be designed to "fail safe."

    In other words, the device should self-test critical functions, and if any do not meet requirements, the device needs to indicate the failure AND NOT TRANSMIT.

    Basic rational design.

    If the "scanner" fails to detect an "in use" channel properly (self test to ensure it does), the transmitter shouldn't just push ahead and transmit, it should alarm and go to standby.

    If the device can just go ahead and transmit, as Microsoft's did, the FCC is absolutely right: The device (and possibly service) should not be allowed.

    --
    Tomas

  9. White spaces != unused by EmbeddedJanitor · · Score: 2, Interesting
    There is a perception amongst many that white spaces are unused. That is not always correct. These white spaces can serve a purpose.

    In some cases, RF automatic tunig circuits need the white spaces as a way to distinguish the signal envelope (ie. the "edges" of the signal it is tracking). If you pack the white spaces with RF then those edges get blurred and some AFC circuitry will malfunction.

    --
    Engineering is the art of compromise.
    1. Re:White spaces != unused by badc0ffee · · Score: 3, Funny
      There is perception amongst many others that /dev/null is unused. They just don't realize you can back up your entire system there without using any media. At least until you get a bit bucket overflow.

      Keep the white space white!

      --
      1011 1010 1101 1100 0000 1111 1111 1110 1110
  10. Re:hey... by LunaticTippy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Imagine if government ran the roads the way they run the spectrum....
    You should search "us road privatization" -- we are starting to run our roads the way they run the spectrum.
    --
    Man, you really need that seminar!
  11. Right idea but your proposed test has a bug by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 3, Insightful

    In other words, the device should self-test critical functions, and if any do not meet requirements, the device needs to indicate the failure AND NOT TRANSMIT.

    Dead on. But:

    If the "scanner" fails to detect an "in use" channel properly (self test to ensure it does), the transmitter shouldn't just push ahead and transmit, it should alarm and go to standby.

    Which breaks if you bring it up in an environment that doesn't have any "in use" channels to detect. Like in a remote environment (such as my place in a lightly-settled section of Nevada desert) which has zero detectable TV signals and virtually no daytime broadcast radio - exactly the sort of place you'd want to "wire for broadband" with wireless.

    IMHO the right algorithm is not an up-front self-test, but a CYA check during turn-up:
      - Check for in-use channel. If not found:
      - Momentarily make a VERY SMALL amount of signal of your own and see if you detect that, to check the detector. If you do:
      - THEN turn on normal transmitter power.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  12. Re:Another public relations misfire by Control+Group · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Right, because of course the other companies involved simply decided that the FCC is all-wise, and have no interest in the decision being appealed. It's utterly beyond the realm of possibility that they collectively decided to use the member with the best PR machine to protest the decision. This is obviously Microsoft branching out on its own hook against the wishes of the other members of the coalition in an evil plot to TAKE OVER THE WORLD, MUAHAHAHA!!

    --

    Reality has a conservative bias: it conserves mass, energy, momentum...
  13. Compliance test is not multiple-choice by tcgroat · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Yes, that's right. If one sample meets the limit and another does not, how would the test tech know which one was truly defective? In the case of interference testing, a broken product often seems better than the working one (it's likely to have fewer or weaker signals making noise, hence lower interference measurements). The unit was tested as received, and that sample's performance determines "pass" or "fail".

    The nature of certification tests is that the test sample represents all products shipped. It's the manufacturers' responsibility to deliver working test samples. If the manufacturer didn't have anybody present to demonstrate the failing unit really was broken, the test technician not only was justified in giving a "test failure" verdict, but as an independent evaluator also was obligated to do so.