Going to Yosemite? Get Your Passport Ready!

rev_media writes to tell us that CNN has a few updates to the Real ID act currently facing legislators. The Real ID acts mandates all states to begin issuing federal IDs to all citizens by 2008. Costs could be as much at $14 billion, but only 40 million are currently allocated. Several states have passed legislation expressly forbidding participation in the program, while others seem to be all for it. The IDs will be required for access to all federal areas including flights, state parks and federal buildings. People in states refusing to comply will need to show passports even for domestic flights.

Comments

Wow

[UncleWilly]

$14 billion seems a little expensive, I'm glad I already have a passport.

Re:Wow

[nurb432]

Yes, actually it did. Just no one noticed.

It was the war to retain our prior way of life, which we obviously lost.

Re:Wow

[Anonymous Coward]

At least you were free-range sheep before... soon you'll be factory farmed.

Re:Wow

[lawpoop]

Otherwise known as the War on Terror. The terrorists won; we have lost our freedoms. They have changed our way of life.

Re:Wow

[maxume]

You don't think it's a problem because you think the ID proves who you are. It doesn't. It demonstrates that some authority went to some level of trouble verifying that you are who you say you are, to the extent that you can trust that the paper was not forged. In the case of many government papers, it is indeed a pretty reliable indicator, but it is still pretty easy for corrupt officials to create very authentic papers with false information on them, information that happens to appear in very official databases. REAL ID does little to address the fraudulent issue of official cards(and makes such a card that much more valuable).

The data access and homogenization provisions are at least disconcerting, especially in the face of the whole thing being rather unnecessary. If documented illegals were the problem(one of the main things it is supposed to address is illegal aliens 'stealing' jobs from Americans), it might help address the situation, but for the most part, it's the undocumented illegals that are the problem, and the willingness of employers to hire them, not the ones that are trying to get government identification and pay taxes.

If it is a huge, expensive, pain in the ass and doesn't accomplish anything much other than making life more irritating, Congress must have voted for it.

Re:Wow

[bigpat]

Other than closing loopholes, I'm not sure why they require it to enter a federal park - are we afraid the terrorist will go after the deer and chipmunks? Closing loopholes? What loophole would that be? I suppose they are most concerned about people visiting national monuments in the capital and such and doing bad things to them... not that knowing what someone's name and last known address really prevents people from doing bad things, but it sure does make politicians look like they aren't quite so stupid when they can identify the bad guys after the fact.

Even the Federal building access seems very questionable, it really doesn't matter who I am as long as I am not carrying an AK47 or some C4. If I get called for Jury Duty and need to show a passport to get to the court room... well that seems pretty stupid to me and I don't think I would comply even if I have a passport floating around.

If passports are going to be required universally for access to public spaces, then they should be given out for free along with citizenship like a social security card is.

Re:Wow

[Keys1337]

I'd say the poor get fucked the worst. Their contribution is smaller yet hurts the most. Sales taxes, semi-hidden taxes on utilities and gas. Pain in the ass regulations.

You're welcome.

Just because someone else paid more for the shackles and chains doesn't mean anyone should be grateful.

Re:Wow

[Kadin2048]

This time they spun it quite well, they got us to swallow it all bait and hook it's way down there this time. The timing was also quite effective, The nations youth and middle class are some of the most distractable Americans in history. I don't think the difference is really "distractability." The difference is demographics. In the 1960s and 70s, the Baby Boom generation was in its youth.

Today, that generation is in decline; they have, for the most part, sold out the values they held as younger people, in favor of security for themselves, their lives, and their families.

There just aren't enough young people around -- not to mention actually voting -- to overcome the influence of the aging Boom generation. And many younger people realize this, and become more cynical about the entire system, less interested in doing anything to modify it -- which, perversely, actually gives the older people more power.

I don't think you're going to see a major change in the direction this country is going, until the demographics come back into balance, and that's not going to happen until a whole lot of people in their mid-60s die.

Re:Wow

[Anonymous Coward]

I just don't get it. I mean sure, I bet some terrorist hate our freedom. And to those terrorists, they've won. But I figured those terrorists were just the ones made up by some sarcastic lefty or some misguided right-winger.

I think the real terrorists wouldn't give a shit about this. Iraq is the target rich environment. Its like having all the cows come to your home. So why go all the way to the supermarket for milk?

There are a lot of reasoning behind the recent terror attacks in both the US and Abroad. There's a lot to hate. Our support of Israel. Our foreign policy. Our position as a superpower. Our Culture. Ingrained hatred taught from childhood.

Tightening security measures changes none of these things. So from a "Win-Lose" perspective, no one wins.

We're becoming a huge jail, no one in or out without tons of hassle. The only ones that win from this is the Government.

Re:Wow

[John Jamieson]

"We Americans have enjoyed almost total security, in that our three neighbors consist of two good friends (Mexico and Canada)"

And I don't know how many of our "Comrads" here in the U.S. realize that Bush has been trying to piss off the Canadians ever since 9/11, big time. I live only four hours from the border, and work up there sometimes... and you cannot believe how he went out of the way to stab them in the back.

On 9/11 we would not allow any international flights to land in our country... they were too dangerous. So what does canada do, they take them, even in Toronto. Now any of those planes could have been compromised for all they knew, they could have lost many lives, but they did it anyway. Well, when I was working up there after 9/11, Bush thanked all sorts of nations for helping, and left out Canada. Don't worry, they are not too dumb to notice.

Bush does not want Canada for a friend, it is much easier for him to close off the borders if they become an adversary.

Re:Wow

[stinerman]

Fair enough. Here's the deal: let's change places. I don't and have never paid a dime in federal income tax.

Have fun making about $25,000/yr and having a personal equity of -$88,000. I'll be happy to pay $75,000 in federal taxes because that would mean that I'm making something near 7 figures.

If you think paying taxes is bad, try being below the poverty line (not that I am, but many are).

Re:Wow

[MillionthMonkey]

The terrorists have won, in part.

Still untrue. We may be losing, but it isn't because some abstract concept is winning. It just isn't that simple.

That's a matter of semantics. There is no denying that 9/11 was a wildly successful attack, more successful than anyone dreamed even in 2002. The losses from the attacks themselves were largely confined to 3000 innocent lives, two skyscrapers, and four downed airliners. People even across the Middle East were lighting candles for us.

Our overreaction got us a new ineffective federal agency, an endless quagmire of a long bitter war that has killed more Americans than died on 9/11 and many times as many Iraqi civilians, new torture policies allowing "extraordinary rendition" and "enhanced interrogation" that have made the U.S. into a pariah across the world, a suspension of habeas corpus, and an undermining of the protections behind Amendments I, IV, V, VI, and VIII as well as numerous statutory protections in the federal realm relating to privacy, wiretapping, and individual rights to a fair trial- but we did get a nice rainbow color chart out of the whole thing. Maybe some "abstract concept" isn't "winning" but by any standard the 19 hijackers couldn't have asked for a reaction from the United States that would be more damaging to the United States.

Wow

[Anonymous Coward]

Did America lose a war I didnt hear about?

Your papers please.

[arthurpaliden]

Sir, your papers are not in order, please come with us..... No, this is not happening in 'Soviet Russia' this is happening in the United States of America One of the things that the US goverment kept on about during the cold war was that in the United States you did not need 'internal travel documents and passports' because it, the United States, was a free country..

remember when?

[lecithin]

Borodin: Do you think they will let me live in Montana?
Capt. Ramius: I would think they'll let you live wherever you want.
Borodin: Good. Then I will live in Montana. And I will marry a round American woman, and raise rabbits, and she will cook them for me. And I will have a pick-up truck, or umm... possibly even...a recreational vehicle, and drive from state to state. Do they let you do that?
Capt. Ramius: Oh yes.
Borodin: No papers?
Capt. Ramius: No papers. State-to-state.

Re:Papers please!

[Anonymous Coward]

As an old guy who grew up in the 50's and 60's I must say this nation is beginning to sound (and act) like the nation I was taught to fear... the soviet union.
Showing papers to travel within the country is not what a free people do.

Re:Papers please!

[BWJones]

"What happened was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to be governed by surprise, to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believe that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if people could understand it, it could not be released because of national security. " ~ an anonymous German Professor from 'They Thought They Were Free: The Germans 1939-1945', by Milton Mayer

Vote for Ron Paul 2008

[b0s0z0ku]

I don't agree with all of his politics, especially his stances on abortion and public health care, but he may be the least authoritarian out there. If you think that most Democrate will be better, they're just as bad.

Re:Papers please!

[gardyloo]

We have fewer rights now than ever before in the USA Careful. African Americans and women can own property, vote, and enjoy the rights that white males do. Gay marriage (and civil unions) is legal in some states now. A woman's right to choose the fate of her unborn child is protected. There are probably more rights which are guaranteed now which I can't think of off the top of my head. So although I agree that things aren't perfect in this country, most of the points raised by the parent poster are in no way new, and some things are much better than they have been at various points in the country's history.

Re:Papers please!

[BWJones]

And if you think any of that is going to change by electing Democrats, you've got another thing coming.

Republicans....Democrats.... it does not matter. What matters is that we as a people take back those freedoms granted to us. Remember that the Constitution was not so much a document that granted individual rights, rather it was a document that described what government can and could not do. To paraphrase Jim Garrison who was speaking of Nazi Germany when he said that it was not a German phenomenon, "It is not a Republican/Democratic phenomenon, it is a human phenomenon and the slide to a proto-fascist state can happen here."

Stupid Fear Mongoloid

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

From the article:

"For terrorists, travel documents are like weapons," Chertoff said

But, Walsh said, "any state that's refusing to implement this key recommendation by the 9/11 Commission, and whose state driver's licenses are as a result used in another terrorist attack, should be held responsible." What a fucking fear-mongerer!

So, if the next terrorists have one of these internal passports, what are the consequences for the people promoting the Real-ID program? Will they be held responsible? Another 9/11 and will the people running DHS be convicted of manslaughter? Can't have it both ways Cheeseoff!

Solution: Pick any other country. Move there.

[soldoutactivist]

There was a time when I couldn't imagine living in another country, not even as an exchange student. I've even turned down fantastic job offers from other countries because they simply weren't in America. But almost everyday now something happens, a law is passed, or another degree shaven off of what once made this country great is added to "Why isn't this the greatest country in the world anymore?" The next time a foreign job offer comes around, I'm probably going to take it, there's just not enough reasons not to these days. And even if one doesn't, Vancouver, BC is a very beautiful city. Get out while you still can.

Re:So ... Basically...

[karmatic]

I'm sorry, but the more I hear of him, the more Thomas Jefferson sounds like a dangerous, deranged psychopath.
Well, the founding fathers committed an armed overthrow of the legitimate government. If you were to ask England, they were murderers, terrorists, and they committed treason. Had they not succeeded, they would have been executed as traitors to the crown.

The difference between a traitor and a patriot is often a matter of how successful one was. Fortunately for the United States, the people who started it's government did so because they wanted freedom from an oppressive government, rather than simply freedom to institute their own oppressive government. Unfortunately, there has been a sever slide towards tyranny in recent years.

We could use a few more patriots in this nation, even if it did result in some people dying in a revolution. The safest life is a solitary one in a padded cell, but I certainly wouldn't want to live like that. Besides, if it's acceptable for a soldier to fight (and give his life) to "preserve our way of life", why is it wrong to fight to better our way of life?

Re:I left america and I'm NEVER going back

[Dunbal]

What precisely does the current federal government do for the middle classes?

      Hey come on, they build freeways and bridges oh wait...

It's worth mentioning.

[Inoshiro]

Every single 9/11 terrorists highjacker had a valid passport.

This is security theatre -- worse still, it removes freedoms from us non-terrorists.

Now wait a minute.

[iminplaya]

Didn't the USSR lose the cold war?

Re:Papers for Yosemite?!

[Enderandrew]

Penn and Teller did a Bullshit episode on Mt. Rushmore and patriotism that was quite interesting. The 4 faces chosen where supposedly chosen because they were responsible for extending the frontier of the country, but also because they hated Native Americans. There are those who suggest that carving the faces of these 4 particular men into native land was a galactic fuck you.

In Soviet America

[starX]

The government terrorizes YOU.