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US Shuts Down Controversial Anti-Terror Database
coondoggie writes "The massive anti-terror database established by the US government has been criticized for keeping track of regular everyday citizens. Computerworld reports that as of September 17th, the database will be shut down. 'The Threat and Local Observation Notices or TALON, was established in 2002 by then-Deputy Defense Secretary Paul D. Wolfowitz as a way to collect and evaluate information about possible threats to U.S. service members and defense civilians all over the world.
Congress and others protested its apparent use as an unauthorized citizen tracking database. The TALON system came under fire in 2005 for improperly storing information about some civilian individuals and non-government-affiliated groups on its database. The Air Force developed TALON... in response to the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks as a way to gather data on possible terrorist threats. Anti-war groups and other organizations, protested after it was revealed last year that the military had monitored anti-war activities, organizations and individuals who attended peace rallies.'"
Can whomever applied the "slashdotliberalwhining" tag to this article, presumably a self-described conservative or libertarian, please explain how a government that engages in surveillance of provably nonviolent political activism is exactly "small"?
First put yourself in the government's shoes on 9/12/01. They are looking at who was on the planes and trying to figure out why they didn't catch 19 terrorists purchasing tickets and boarding planes on the same day at roughly the same time from the same part of the country. A few months later, they failed to catch that many of these same known terrorists were enrolled in flight school. Oh, and many had also overstayed their visas. Further investigation shows that each intelligence department had a piece of the puzzle. The CIA knew that something was about to happen. The FBI knew that these guys were not interested in learning to take off and land the planes, just wanted to know how to fly straight and do some basic navigation. The Department of Immigration and Nationalization knew that many of these guys had overstayed their visas. Unfortunately, none of these departments were speaking to eachother. While the government had all the pieces, each of the pieces were kept separate from eachother.
Now, pretend you are in charge, with Congress the media and the public wanting to know how this happened and what are you doing to prevent it from happening again. What would you do? Well, for starters, I think I would set up some sort of tracking database system that notifies me of various alerts. I don't know, something like 19 known Mid Eastern men who attended terrorist training camps have all purchased one-way plane tickets for the same day at the same time departing from the same part of the country, just before they sent a whole bunch of money back to the Middle East.
Don't you think that tool would have been useful on 9-10-01? Don't you think you'd put such a database in place to prevent the next attack like that from happening again?
But let's be honest, is the knowledge that the government no longer has a database that you would never see, that wouldn't affect you life at all, but it might, although probably wouldn't, be tracking your movements worth another 3000 innocent lives?
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
I'm sure Ms. Stewart was a big fan of non-violent political activism.
I don't care if you're non-violent or not, if you're communicating with the enemy, we (the American public as represented by our government) want to know why.
And we have every right to that knowledge.
What?
No, it's not worth 3000 lives to live in a surveillance state.
Uh, you know the IRS has a file on you, right? Did you know that the Social Security Administration has a file on you as well? Does this mean we are living in a surveillance state? Do you really think that YOU are in the Homeland Security's database? Do you think that Agent Smith types are keeping tabs on your every move? Are you so conceited that you think your life is so interesting that they just can't stop keeping tabs on you? Get over yourself!
Is it worth 10000 lives to live in a Fascist dictatorship?
Like I said above, if the government keeping a file on you makes you live in a "Fascist Dictatorship", then well, guess what... Oh, by the way, we are neither Fascist, nor a dictatorship. But keep throwing that "Bush is a Nazi" thing around. Eventually, it will have no meaning.
When does it end? How much is 300 million people's freedom worth? Scratch that -- you've said, somewhere between 0 and 3000 lives, but not more than that, otherwise we'd need to wait for a second 9/11.
You got a bank account? Do you have credit cards? How about a mortgage or car loan? Do you know that credit card companies have this information? Feeling "not so free" yet?
Another thing you do is lead the question -- "wouldn't affect you, probably". It always affects people. There isn't a surveilled citizen that hasn't had their life altered by monitoring. The people with the data _always_ find a way to put it to use you never intended or authorized, eventually. Don't forget the fact that the data is often wrong or misinterpreted, and we'll reap those consequences, too.
They've had this database running for years. For that matter, it is running RIGHT NOW! Have the people with the data found a way to abuse you yet? You did say that it _ALWAYS_ does. How has it this time?
Personally, I'd rather live in a free state where I feared terrorists bombing symbols of their own exploitation (that I could easily avoid)
Really? Do you travel? Do you go to work? Do you think the people on those planes could have easily avoided what happened to them?
than under a surveillance state, where I lived in constant fear of government reprisal, intimidation, mis-monitoring, and misinterpretation, no matter where I was.
Are you planning on moving to a tribe in Africa? If not, then you are going to remain under constant government surveillance. Have you been intimidated by the Feds? Why don't you call CNN or MSNBC or even your local TV station. I'm sure they'd like to hear how you government is abusing you.
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
This site's logo should be \.
Because it and its users lean so far left.
Your drunk driving correlation is incorrect. Laws to stop drunk driving != keeping tabs on every single American just in case they might drunk drive.
The GP brought up drunk driving. But since you responded, this database doesn't keep tabs every American either, so I guess it does fit and your correlation is incorrect.
How do those living in such constant fear even go to sleep at night? Oh, yeah -- by blindly trusting their daddy government to keep those scary terrorists at bay.
Funny, an AC calls me a coward.
Go back and read my posts. It's not fear that keeps me up at night. It's rage. It puts me in a rage knowing that these people want to kill you and me. I don't need my government to protect me. I need them to kill the bastards that want to kill us all, the slower, the better!
As a conservative, I find it unlikely that I can vote Republican ever again.
Then you're really not a conservative are you? Who will you vote for, Hillary? Obama? Edwards? Please!
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.