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TorrentSpy Must Preserve Data In RAM For MPAA

Posted by kdawson on from the good-luck-finding-merkin-computers dept.

Transient writes "Reaffirming a magistrate's earlier decision, a federal judge has ordered TorrentSpy to begin keeping server logs as it defends itself against an MPAA lawsuit. In her opinion, Judge Florence-Marie Cooper interpreted federal discovery rules broadly. ' Judge Cooper took issue with TorrentSpy's argument that data in RAM is not "stored." She noted RAM's function as primary storage and that the storage of data in RAM — even if not permanently archived — makes it electronically stored information governed by federal discovery rules.' Given that TorrentSpy has limited access for users in the US, the ruling may be moot. But it does set a precedent for other, similar cases. 'Under this interpretation, any data stored in RAM could be subject to a subpoena, as at a basic level it is a "medium from which information can be obtained" just like a hard drive. '"

10 of 489 comments (clear)

  1. Soo.... by Pojut · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ...as the data that is put into RAM is read and erased, can they (Torrentspy) be charged with destruction of evidence?

    --
    Living With a Nerd
    1. Re:Soo.... by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The court said 'No, a closer analogy is that you're transcribing them on self-destructing paper, and we can make you use regular paper and hand them over. We can't stop you from stopping to record them entirely, but as long as they're in memory, you have already actually recorded them in a legal sense. They are physically represented in property of yours.'. They aren't considering that to record this information in durable form would make the system inoperable. If you had to tap into the memory bus to record every write operation to memory, you'd need to replace a huge striped RAID of drives every few minutes (I'm being generous) or slow the system down to practical unusability so that memory writes are no faster than a hard drive write, and still have to replace drives continuously.

      Imagine the implications if it is determined that memories are stored by some measurable physicality in the brain. With such an advancement, under this precedent, memories become subpoena-able.

      The government should fear this as the boilerplate "I do not recall" answers will then become impeachable testimony.
      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
  2. power failure by j00r0m4nc3r · · Score: 4, Interesting

    So can they convict me for destroying evidence because I turned off my computer?

  3. Just a thought... by click2005 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Doesn't Vista encrypt some of it's data in RAM (DRMd media etc)? If Apache was modified to set the memory used for logs to be DRMd, would this make the data inaccessible?

    --
    I am a free slashdotter. I will not be modded, blogged, DRM'd, patented, podcasted or RFID'd. My life is my own.
  4. Re:Not surprising by Anarke_Incarnate · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Except it is nothing like post its. It is more like you are using an etch a sketch to do your accounting and every new calculation, you shake it. Now you are required to write everything down.

    Worse yet, what about a digital calculator.....you can't use one. You need to have one that prints out, etc.

  5. Just Suppose... by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Just suppose it's encrypted data in RAM? Shall they be given the still encrypted contents?

    How about giving them a complete memory dump of RAM, letting them sort out what the data is that interests them? Can the judge require them to preserve it in pretty formats?

    This whole order is such an overreach by this judge, and the US Judicial system, that an immediate halt should be put to it this very instant.

    And just suppose, btw for the sake of argument, that the country were TS is located prohibits export of personal data due to privacy laws? Then who wins?

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  6. Rank this Judge by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Do you want to rank this judge's performance in a public manner? Visit The Robing Room and let your thoughts be heard. Just be sure to get her name and state correct. Judge Florence-Marie Cooper, Federal Judge, California.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  7. Re:Bah, move the servers offshore. by Randseed · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Becasue someone just might be willing to provide the firepower to back it up?

    That's just it, isn't it? Claiming of territory in space is governed by some UN treaty as I recall. But that doesn't matter. If I go and somehow colonize Mars right now, I'm vulnerable to anybody who might want to take it from me. The only solution is to arm Mars to defend it, at which point any aggressor can either fight and lose, or fight and lose far more than Mars is worth to them. Either case makes it illogical to try and capture Mars, and therefore they have to work with Mars, not just invade it.

    This is precisely why the world politica is divided into two groups: Nuclear and non-nuclear powers. If a country is a nuclear power, the rules change, because that country can inflict substantial damage to you, more than the country itself is probably worth.

  8. Who is responsible? by PPH · · Score: 4, Interesting
    In the case of TorrentSpy, this question may be moot. But consider a case in which the provider of a service is not the same as the manufacturer of the application used to provide that service.


    In spite of all of the ramblings to the contrary, it isn't technically difficult to add a logging feature to a piece of s/w to collect and store IP addresses, or other sorts of data currently only held in RAM. This assumes that the operators of the service can either modify that s/w themselves, or contract the vendor of said s/w to add this logging feature. In the case of proprietary s/w, with licensing provisions prohibiting reverse-engineering or modification, the latter may be the only recourse.


    Now, lets suppose the operators of TorrentSpy contact the vendor, request that logging be added per the court's request and the vendor replies, "No".

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  9. Re:so hand them a stick of RAM by drDugan · · Score: 4, Interesting

    strangely, the way I see the law, the judge is right on this. just because it is volatile, does not mean it is any less incriminating.

    the problem here is(are) the law(s), not the judge's interpretation.

    copyright is completely out of control, and *NO* reasonable discussion on any issue regarding rights for copyright holders has merit (IMHO) until the copyright terms are fixed - meaning, significantly reduced. I don't advocate copyright elimination - it is valid and useful thing to have - just that the tampering with the law by these big companies has given them exactly the opposite that they expected - they have people who don't take it seriously because it is so far skewed against the public interest.

    On a long enough time scale, everything balances.