Slashdot Mirror
DOJ Still Looks To Have Suit Against Verizon Tossed
An anonymous reader writes "With Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell acknowledging that the 'private sector' had a hand in assisting the president's warrantless wiretapping initiative, the DOJ is ever more strenuously demanding that the suit against Verizon be dropped. 'The Justice Department attorneys argue McConnell's statements did nothing to change the fact that it hasn't ever confirmed any of the activities alleged by the class action plaintiffs--and has, in fact, denied the existence of any sort of "dragnet." The arguments made by the class action plaintiffs rest on nothing but "speculation," the attorneys wrote. In the Justice Department's view, litigating the case would still require exposing how the program actually does work--which, it says, would in turn endanger national security.'"
Evidently, just finally dropping Gonzales from his stonewall turret isn't enough to force the "Justice" Department back into the service of the American people and our legitimate security needs. Eventually this circling the wagons over the illegal domestic spying will start claiming that holding responsible the guilty parties will threaten the existence of corporations like Verizon, and their buddies in the government.
They will hold our country hostage to get us to let them walk all over our people.
--
make install -not war
We're screwing you for your own good.
This should come up in the confirmation hearings for the new Attorney General.
If verizon gets hammered by lawsuits over the illegal wiretapping it doesn't stop there, eventually there will be pressure put on the agencies that did this nonsense in the first place. I suppose that they figure by shielding Verizon it'll discourage any further suits and investigations into what the department was doing.
Sigs are too short to say anything truly profound so read the above post instead.
someone who is NOT a qualified proctologist looking at the seat of your pants holding a flashlight in his/her hand.
... Bend over"
Like the little kid says on "the Awful Show": "Okay
I feel, uh, violated...
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
In the Justice Department's view, litigating the case would still require exposing how the program actually does work--which, it says, would in turn endanger national security.
I would of thought that if that were the case that not all the hearings would be open to those without necessary clearance. Sounds like a bit of a cop out to me. Along the lines of "We've done stuff we shouldn't of done, but because it's in the interests of national security, we can't tell you what we did and how we will keep on doing it".
Not all conservatives are stupid,
but it is true that most stupid people are conservative.
- Hume
I'm no fan of either player here. This reads like a triple negative. Who's the side we're supposed to be 'rooting for' and is this a Good Thing or a Bad Thing?
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
You know, I usually can't stand the idea of Congressional hearings on anything (they end up being more campaign speech-y, than enlightened probes), but this might be an instance where I'm inclined to change my opinion. If there was any type of collusion between the government and big business to break the law of the land, quite a few corporate heads need to roll.
Note that I'm not advocating that these be public hearings - I'm willing to let the government keep a few of its secrets - but all testimony should be under oath. What I cannot abide is watching anybody lie to Congress, and get away scot free. Especially corporations that have received substantial benefits (subsidies, market consolidation, etc.) from the very same people they are lying to.
I'm not tense. I'm just terribly, terribly, alert.
Not so, the Bush administration countered in a Wednesday court filing seen by CNET News.com. The Justice Department attorneys argue McConnell's statements did nothing to change the fact that **it** hasn't ever confirmed any of the activities alleged by the class action plaintiffs--and has, in fact, denied the existence of any sort of "dragnet." Who is the **it** that TFA is talking about?
It could be:
The Justice Dept.
The Bush Administration
National Intelligence Program (McConnell, Director of)
From what I understand Mike McConnel is a political appointee of the President and his words = the Administration's words.
In other words, if he admits to something, the Bush Administration has admitted to it too.
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
No film at any hour
Fletcher: Your honor, I object!
Judge: Why?
Fletcher: Because it's devastating to my case!
Judge: Overruled.
I find his movies generally annoying, but this one tolerable enough that I sat through it without walking out.
//Information does not want to be free; it wants to breed.
The Department of Justice is hypocritical through and through. Even it's name is hypocritical. I would say THEY'VE lost all credibility, all trust...But... We're the biggest losers. We've lost credibility. Self esteem. Self image. Everything.
What he said was that the lawsuits would bankrupt Verizon:
"Now if you play out the suits at the value they're claimed, it would bankrupt these companies,"
Which means they have merit. Moreover he said it publicly, so he can testify the same under oath without causing any additional problems for national security.
When the DOJ comes to your company and says, "by executive order, do this", you don't just ignore them. It isn't the fault of these companies that phones were tapped, that's like blaming the gun for a robbery.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAoh wait it's not funny that you're retarded enough to assume everyone opposed to widespread government surveillance is a "liberal" please fuck off now thx bye
Just believe whatever the Ministry of Truth tells you and don't ask any questions. BB is watching.
I'll see your National Security bluff, and raise you one one Traditional Family and an American Dream.
Take that.
Anyone else have a constant nagging feeling that our government is utterly and completely out of our control? I say "our" as a voting, gun carrying American citizen who has had about as much as I can take of this type of bullshit. The soap box is monitored, if not outright under their control, the ballot box is rigged, the jury box is full of government "yes" men, how long till they come for the ammo box?
Pure DoJ bullsh*t.
The safe bet is that the NSA is packet-sniffing all foreign and domestic communications involving targeted individuals or, in the event they can't narrow it down to an IP address, they monitor all the public WiFi services in the neighborhood. Anyone familiar with the technology can figure out how to do it. Anyone communicating with individuals abroad or any number of 'suspect' domestic groups (Islamic, Arab-American lobbying groups, etc.) can figure its being done to them. There's no big secret needing to be kept.
What would endanger 'security' is that this technology is also being used for domestic surveillance for political and even economic reasons (i.e. industrial espionage). The security it would endanger is the current administration's ability to remain out of prison.
Have gnu, will travel.
That's just a sick thing to say, and flamebaiting :(
Those douchebags are getting 3-4 times normal pay for helping Bush's amoral police action. I shed no tear for their deaths. They are profitting from an illegal, amoral and unethical display of power.
As for the military, well, the guys who were already in before Bush started this conflict get my sympathy. Sucks to be them, but they knew what they were getting into.
If you signed up for this evil war after it began, you deserve whatever you get at the hands of the Iraqis.
I like watching belligerant and imbecillic assholes fail fail fail. The military told us no more than 6 months. The White House told us $50 Billion dollars. They were warned, now they get mocked.
Blar.
"With Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell acknowledging that the 'private sector' had a hand in assisting the president's warrantless wiretapping initiative"
So, if this argument is then accepted, we can now consider any corporate entity in the USA a part of the United States government.
So, this is JUST what corporations want. It goes, same to same, that is a coporation can enjoin itself and become an arm of the government, acting on enforcing a governments whishes, then this corporation then has all of the powers of said government.
This is the next step in turning the USA from a republic into an empire in my opinion.
Once corporations are granted that sort of legal power, which they technically already do have, its called your CREDIT RATING, then the last two pieces fall into place:
1) First abridge and control the government laws on credit and trade and put it under the "watchful" eye of just 3 corporations, which hold a trinity of economic power greater than the government itself. Have those entities draw "taxes" from its "citizens" if they wish to buy sell or trade.
You do this every time you check your credit history on a yearly basis. Its is almost required now to do so because if you don't you could seriously injure yourself economically.
Then they have you by the gonads because they want that credit check "tax" to buy borrow or trade as frequently as possible.
Thats why it is so easy to steal identities. For the credit agencies, its BIG business to incompetently manage everyones credit history.
Yes, that would be Equifax, Trans Union, and that other guy.
2) Next step is to generalize corporate law, and insure it is enforced by the government by making it one and the same entity.
Thats what this case is about. I hear a ton of people here crying about separation of church and state, while the merging of government and business gets the BIG GREEN LIGHT with every election that flies by.
3) Final step in this process of becoming an empire is to require citizenship based on employment. If you lose your JOB, your technically NOT A citizen of the Empire of the United States.
That is what happens next: You don't vote anymore, because states will cease to exist. The only states are corporations, and the larger the corporation you belong too, the more power you will wield in privs.
-Hack
Got Geometrodynamics? Awe, too hard to figure out? Too bad.
There should be transparency, there is no good reason to not have it. Rights are being squashed as it is!
OMG!
captcha: torturer
Did they just argue that they haven't admitted that they were doing it, but they can't talk about doing it because it would threaten national security? Um, hello? First, it's true that you're not supposed to be able to sue on a hypothetical situation. SCO aside, there's supposed to be a real issue before you can sue. But the government seems to be saying that they have to admit to the wiretapping before they can be sued for it. IANAL, but I don't believe that's how it works, not even for the federal government. Second, maybe "we can't talk about it" is precisely why they haven't admitted it? So, maybe, not admitting it doesn't mean a thing? I hope and expect that the judge can see right through this rubbish...
If you can't handle insulting words when used to describe people who do bad things, you really need to get over yourself.
I've been spewing the facts since 2003. Now I just don't give a fuck about convincing anyone who hasn't already realized what a fuck up and pathetic failure our president and our military has been.
Sorry if that bothers you, nothing personal.
Blar.
Gotta give respect to those who called for war and actually turned up to help out. I wonder if they still believe whatever they believed when they enlisted...
How did a country go from being founded by men who distrusted government to a country where you are denigrated for questioning your government so quickly?
Blar.
He found out the hard way. http://www.nsaspook.com/9166_0029.jpg
In GOD we trust, all others we monitor.
corporations and against the interests of citizens.
The previous and most notable occurance was when they took defeat out of the jaws of two convictions and created a toothless settlement with Microsoft that enabled them to continue their monopoly. Citizens of all countries have been paying through the nose every since.
Running with Linux for over 20 years!
... a thought which should be enough to illustrate that the argument "would endanger national security" is pure nanny-state. "If you don't have anything to hide, what are you worried about?" Government by neo-facist paranoiacs, that's what. People are trying to kill them, sure, but their behaviour is that of cowards and bullies, the likes of which have been known to do a lot of damage.
Ok. So Yahoo follows Chinese law and provides information to the chinese gov't ... and gets sued in US courts. Then people cry FAIR...saying Yahoo should know to obey 'international human rights' nonsense.
Yet VZ follows the mandate of it's OWN gov't who i guarantee have the most weight in determining 'international human rights' and winds up in court. Then the DOJ is looking to have the lawsuit dropped?!
So wait.
China forces a company to provide private info to 'out' a journalist per a LAWFUL (in china) request = BAD
Verizon willingly cooperates with secret requests (of highly questionable legality) to not only provide information on-hand but actively seek out and CAPTURE information (i.e. wiretap) for the *US* gov't = GOOD??
I know we're 'holier than thou' but seriously...can anyone in their right mind justify the disparity? I mean, without resorting to 'because we said so' like my parents used to when I was 6.
You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
It seems to me for the executive branch to demand a lawsuit be dismissed is meddling in the independence of the judiciary and violating the Constitutional separation of powers.
Oh, wait, I forgot "activist judges" are supposed to be a bad thing. Never mind about that separation of powers rubbish, then.
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.