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Court Rules Against TorrentSpy In MPAA Email Suit

mikesd81 writes "C|Net reports that a lawsuit filed by TorrentSpy against the MPAA, accusing it of intercepting the company's private e-mails, was tossed out of court this week. Even though a U.S District judge ruled that the MPAA broke no rules, the MPAA does admit it paid $15,000 to obtain private e-mails belonging to TorrentSpy executives. The MPAA's acknowledgment is significant because it comes at a time when the group is trying to limit illegal file sharing by imploring movie fans to act ethically and resist the temptation to download pirated movies. From the article: 'Ethically, it's pretty clear that reading other people's e-mail is wrong,' said Lorrie Cranor, an associate research professor and Internet privacy expert at Carnegie Mellon University. 'Being offered someone else's e-mails by a third party should have been a red flag.' TorrentSpy is appealing the decision." This is just not a good week for those guys.

24 of 130 comments (clear)

  1. The MPAA wants us to act ethically??? by lecithin · · Score: 4, Funny

    "imploring movie fans to act ethically and resist the temptation to download pirated movies"

    How about -

      imploring the MPAA to act ethically and resist the temptation to download pirated emails.

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    It could be worse, it could be Monday.
    1. Re:The MPAA wants us to act ethically??? by Red_Foreman · · Score: 5, Interesting

      TorrentSpy should press criminal charges against the MPAA.
       
        Industrial Espionage is still illegal, and purchasing internal emails maybe fall under Industrial Espionage statutes. I am not a lawyer, but in my opinion TorrentSpy should look into filing criminal charges against the MPAA, or the agent of the MPAA that authorized the purchase of these emails, and the person that sold those emails to the MPAA.

    2. Re:The MPAA wants us to act ethically??? by cez · · Score: 2, Interesting

      According to court documents, the MPAA came into possession of the e-mails after first being approached by Robert Anderson. Anderson is a former business associate of Justin Bunnell, TorrentSpy's founder.


      Besides the 15 grand they paid for these "legally" aquired emails, one wonders what else they offered Mr. Anderson... perhaps the Blue Pill? But in all seriousness, this guy just happened to spend the time and risk of hacking the email servers with no prior contact with the MPAA? That smells awfully fishy too me. Perhaps someone out there needs to "legally" aquire some MPAA emails and find out the truthiness of this.

      --
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    3. Re:The MPAA wants us to act ethically??? by Applekid · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Besides the 15 grand they paid for these "legally" aquired emails, one wonders what else they offered Mr. Anderson... Not that complicated. $15K for the emails, $15K for the judge or member of the judiciary (or a congressman with the power to redraw judicial districts).

      Just the cost of doing business. And to think when Valenti died there were actually some who thought the MPAA might start growing a conscience.
      --
      More Twoson than Cupertino
  2. Am I reading this right?! by spyrochaete · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So, according to US law, it's illegal to hack into someone's computer to read their private data but it's legal to pay someone else to do it?

    Yet the legality of hosting a site hosting .torrent files that are not themselves infringing is being called into question?

    This seems very inconsistent to me. Is it or is it not legal to act as a proxy to potentially illegal material?

    1. Re:Am I reading this right?! by varmittang · · Score: 2, Informative

      "Yet the legality of hosting a site hosting .torrent files that are not themselves infringing is being called into question?"

      Giving a key to a thief that then breaks into a place using that key will get you in trouble. Since you know the .torrent leads to copy righted material and is illegal, just like you know the person you are giving the key to will steal something. Both are punishable under the US law for giving people access to material/possessions that are not theirs to take.

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    2. Re:Am I reading this right?! by boarder8925 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This seems very inconsistent to me. Is it or is it not legal to act as a proxy to potentially illegal material?
      Depends on who has more money.
    3. Re:Am I reading this right?! by darkmeridian · · Score: 4, Interesting

      There is a difference between inducing, hiring, or causing someone to steal e-mail and buying the e-mails after he already had stolen it. The MPAA did not use the information to break the law. (As in the case of identity thieves who buy credit card numbers.) The Wiretap Act applies only against those who steal information, not against those who get it afterwards. The documents were not trade secret so there's really no other recourse available to TorrentSpy aside from perhaps getting the documents thrown out as not admissible.

      TorrentSpy should have sued the former employee who stole the information from them. There's no proof that MPAA induced the employee to violate the law. They should have sued this guy out of house and home. Instead, they worked with him to file a lawsuit against the MPAA. In doing so, they sued a party against whom they had no recourse under the Act. It was a risky strategy that did not pay off.

      There is lots of evidence that the rich are treated differently, but this isn't it.

      --
      A NYC lawyer blogs. http://www.chuangblog.com/
    4. Re:Am I reading this right?! by spyrochaete · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I never alluded to a class-based legal divide, and I don't really understand your conclusions. So the MPAA didn't use TorrentSpy's private emails for a subsequent illegal act... does that mean I can steal a gun from your locked house as long as I only use it for target practise? Or photocopy your diary as long as I don't publish it? Is breaking and entering forgiven if the end result is benign?

      Didn't O.J. Simpson get acquitted because evidence was improperly obtained? I think methodology is more important than you claim.

  3. All animals are equal by Xonstantine · · Score: 4, Insightful

    but some are more equal than others.

    While we (the citizens) weren't paying attention, "they" have put in a two-tiered structure where the laws apply to the sheep, but not the wolves. That's why if you steal someone's SSN, you go to jail, but if you are an illegal alien, hey, it's ok. Or if the MPAA or RIAA breaks the law, harrasses and intimidates people, it's ok...they are a legimiate business interest (and we know this because of their campaign contributions). If Tyson wants to import a whole town from Guatamala to work in their chicken processing plant in Arkansas, that's ok too. "Steal" a DVD by copying it, and it's pokey time for you. All the while your Congressmen and Congresswoman are busy putting their hands in your wallets to pay for boondoggles like the $140 billion ($450,000 for every pre-Katrina man, woman, and child) for New Orleans relief, and various other Bridges to Nowhere.

    1. Re:All animals are equal by morari · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I wouldn't quite call it hysteria. Illegal immigrants undermine the already pitiful minimum wage we have set up through the country, while avoiding taxes altogether. While taxes don't tend to be used to any great degree of efficiency within our country, these illegal immigrants could theoretically be holding us back from proper socialized health care because of it. Among other things. They have a tendency to use false identification in other fields as well, bypassing the need for automobile insurance and registration, again depriving the country of taxes that (theoretically) go towards road maintenance and even putting other, insurance-paying, drivers at risk. Of course, they are merely the symptom of the larger problem; the American government. These parasites wouldn't exist without their money-hungry enablers, looking for cheap, controllable labor. The people that are here illegally don't care to take the time to become a valuable part of our society, they're not the stereotypical Eastern European immigrants of old who came here with a dream, looking to be part of the American ideology. Hell, most of them don't even want to learn the language (instant red flags) and they certainly don't want to pay taxes, fake I.D. or not. I'd imagine most of them don't even plan on staying long-term and instead just want to make enough money to go back home and do something with... build a taco-stand perhaps?

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  4. Re:Store and forward by jedidiah · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You see there is this big fat legal distinction between the fact that a judge can order you to turn over your private emails and having some industrial spy steal them from you. The former is legal and a standard part of legal proceedings and the other is long established as a crime. The MPAA should get bitchslapped for this kind of thing. All parties involved should be raking them over the coals for this. The absolute LAST person that should be excusing this sort of behaivor is a judge. They are the sort of people that should be the first to object.

    The judge should have been pissed that the MPAA didn't file a discovery motion.

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    A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  5. How is this not illegal? by MikeRT · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It's illegal to buy any good that is obtained through illegal means. I can't believe that at a minimum, the MPAA executives didn't violate a state law. Maybe TorrentSpy needs to contact a local attorney and see what options they have under state law. I find it very hard to believe that agreeing to pay for data gained through hacking is legal in any state in the United States.

    1. Re:How is this not illegal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      TorrentSpy's case was based on the assertion that the MPAA violated the Federal Wiretap Act.

      All that this ruling means is that in the opinion of this court they did not.

      It does not grant carte blance access to industrial espionage. It does not mean that the MPAA violated no other laws.

      For a group of people who are picky about minor details of technical arguments you all assume a lot about legal ones.

  6. It's amazing what you can do when by Enlarged+to+Show+Tex · · Score: 2, Funny

    you pay off the right judges, erm, make campaign contributions to elected judges...

  7. Wait... what? by Bonker · · Score: 4, Insightful

    According to court documents, the MPAA came into possession of the e-mails after first being approached by Robert Anderson. Anderson is a former business associate of Justin Bunnell, TorrentSpy's founder.

    Anderson allegedly "hacked" into TorrentSpy's e-mail system and rigged it so that "every incoming and outgoing e-mail message would also be copied and forwarded to his anonymous Google e-mail account," records show.


    How the HELL is this not a felony?!
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    1. Re:Wait... what? by Otter · · Score: 4, Interesting
      No one is saying that that's legal. The question is whether the MPAA should have known they were obtained illegally when Anderson sold the emails to them, claiming they had been obtained legally.

      Anyway, I'm sure some combination of "they weren't stolen, they were copied" and ""let's say you leave your back door unlocked and I..." is sufficient to make all of this OK.

  8. Counter sue for copyright violation. by Egdiroh · · Score: 2, Interesting

    By using them as the foundation for a lawsuit the MPAA violated the copyrights related to those emails. So torrentspy should countersue for the value attached to the infringement, the cost of the settlement from the lawsuit plus torrentspy's lawyer costs.

  9. I don't get it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Tampering and stealing physical mail is a federal crime...
    yet theft of digital mail is A-OK?

    I want to have what that judge is smoking.

    1. Re:I don't get it. by macrom · · Score: 2, Informative

      In the United States, physical mail is provided by a federal institution, the US Postal Service. This is why tampering with standard mail is a crime. AFAIK, tampering with packages from other carriers (FedEx, DHL, UPS, etc) does not carry a federal penalty, though other laws may apply. Digital mail is the same -- it's not a service provided by a federal office (and neither are the networks through which digital mail flows) so there is no federal crime. Again, unless there is some sort of particular law that applies. I imagine that tampering with e-mail from a federal government establishment would be a problem

  10. Screw them. by Spy+der+Mann · · Score: 2, Informative

    If you want to download movies, do it. Unless the MAFIAA starts giving you decent prices, you're not morally obligated to pay their stratospheric fees.

    I support civil disobedience. Just encrypt your stuff (hint: WASTE P2P) and do it at your own risk.

  11. Only one question... by pla · · Score: 3, Interesting

    a lawsuit filed by TorrentSpy against the MPAA, accusing it of intercepting the company's private e-mails

    We already know that the **AA can get away with whatever it wants, and that most judges have as much integrity as most politicians.

    But what I want to know here - Why did TorrentSpy sue rather than pressing charges? This doesn't sounds like a civil offense, it sounds like an outright criminal action on the parts of both the MPAA and Anderson.

    We should have people looking at going to prison over this, not having some petty countersuit thrown out of court.

  12. Hacking a company's email is legal??? by brian0918 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Two parts of this article do not make sense together:

      "...he signed a contract stating he had come by the correspondence through lawful means."

    "Anderson allegedly "hacked" into TorrentSpy's e-mail system and rigged it so that "every incoming and outgoing e-mail message would also be copied and forwarded to his anonymous Google e-mail account," records show."

  13. Apply this to movies by deets · · Score: 3, Insightful

    OK, so I can pay someone, who had already copied a movie before they talked to me, for a copy of a movie, right? I am getting the movie leagally, by purchasing it.