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HD VMD Shows Up Late For the Format War

Posted by kdawson on from the other-guys-will-kill-each-other-off-see dept.

Fishead writes "As the fight heats up between HD DVD and Blu-ray, and as consumers seem to care less and less, a new contender has entered the fray. Next month, New Medium Enterprises will be selling a 1080p player through Amazon and stores such as Radio Shack and Costco for around $150 — half what the cheapest HD DVD player costs, and a quarter the cost of a low-end Blu-ray. The difference this new HD VMD (Versatile Multilayer Disc) format brings is that the discs are created with the same (cheap) red laser as DVDs. From the article: 'HD VMD discs, which hold up to 30GB on a single side, are encoded with a maximum bit rate of 40 megabits per second... between HD DVD's 36 Mpbs and Blu-ray's 48 Mbps. The format uses MPEG-2 and VC1 video formats to encode at 1080p resolution for the time being, and will possibly move to the H.264 format in the future.'"

28 of 280 comments (clear)

  1. I don't care about HD Video... by Perseid · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...but I do want a cheap burner I can throw 30GB at. Sell THAT to me at $150 and I'll buy.

    1. Re:I don't care about HD Video... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      ...but I do want a cheap burner I can throw 30GB at. Sell THAT to me at $150 and I'll buy.

      Oh they'll sell you the burner for $150 but the discs will be $35/ea.

    2. Re:I don't care about HD Video... by GreggBz · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I've seen this every time HD-DVD/Blueray comes up on slashdot and perhaps I have no imagination, but I don't get the application for a 30GB burner. Not any time soon anyway. Hard drive backups? I can't see that being a big application for Desktop systems. If you're backing up many systems, a centralized server with this might be nice, but then again, the gist I get is you all want this for personal applications. LT0-1 and 2 drives are not that much more expensive, hold more and are faster anyway.

      MP3's? I have about 12GB, which = 350CD's. I backed up the whole thing once on 3 DVD's. I sort my folders by date and back up changes on a single CDR about once every 4 months.

      Video, perhaps, but I can't see the appeal in archiving video (with youtube etc..) unless it's pirated movies.
      Software? Maybe your putting 6 linux distros on one of these things, instead of 4 DVD's etc.. But how often do you need 6 Linux distributions? I guess you could carry your whole software library around on a few disks, you silly pirates, but I've never needed more then a DVD full of utility applications. Besides, a single flipper holding my original stuff can travel just as easily as a 30GB nex-gen DVD thingy for which no one has a reader (yet)

      I don't know, I just can't think of anything reasonable, right now or even soon, that would make a 30GB burner desirable. I don't think giant space in disc media is the future. I think ever increasingly large flash drives are the preferred and established technology.

      To me, Planet Earth and NIN live in 1080i on a 42" LCD is a much more fun. I claimed I didn't want HD video either, until I saw it done well on a big enough screen.

    3. Re:I don't care about HD Video... by terjeber · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This is too easy.

      - The world will never need more than 4 or 5 computers.
      - Nobody will ever need more than 640K of memory.
      - We can close all patents offices now, everything is invented (ca 1890)

      You can go on and on. I do HD video with my very inexpensive HD camcorder. 30G is nothing. Nothing at all.

  2. Sounds good... by exploder · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ...but how many giant media corporations are behind it? None? Bummer.

    --
    Yo dawg, I heard you like the Ackermann function, so OH GOD OH GOD OH GOD
    1. Re:Sounds good... by NevarMore · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As another responder mentioned the porn moguls aren't too pleased with either Blu-Ray or HD.

      This probably won't work in the US, Europe, or the Far East. However the one interesting bit from the article that I would like to know more about is that Bollywood might be interested in this. Though not as large as the Western movie market it is still a huge group of people to sell to and that group is probably excluded from the other HD formats because of price and piracy concerns.

      So I say, bring me my 1080 Indian porno!!!

  3. Poor Sony by psychicsword · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Sony just pissed themselves.

    $487.99 for Blue-ray Vs. $150... wonder who will win that aspect to the format war?
    The only thing that may limit this format is whether the movie companies will pick it up, and more importantly the porn industry.

    1. Re:Poor Sony by MBCook · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Can we give up that stupid porn argument yet? I've posted this more than once, but that keeps coming up. Porn will not decide the new format.

      First, when VHS and Beta appeared, the only real way to see porn films was in a XXX theater. You couldn't watch them in the privacy of your home.

      Today, I can watch porn on VHS, or DVD. Or pay-per-view. Or satellite. Or the 'net. Or video-CD. Or I could play a porn related video game. Porn helped VHS because it was really the first time you could watch porn in the privacy of your home, so the inability to do that on Beta was big. That's not an issue today.

      Please, can we just drop that stupid argument? It doesn't hold much water any more.

      --
      Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
    2. Re:Poor Sony by urbanriot · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Just because you keep posting, doesn't make your opinion true, or make the argument hold any less water.

      Regardless, the point is moot, since porn *is* being released on BD with the first release being Debbie Does Dallas. Since the porn industry generated considerable amounts of media attention, the BDA has relented.

      Can we give up that stupid porn argument yet? I've posted this more than once, but that keeps coming up. Porn will not decide the new format.

      First, when VHS and Beta appeared, the only real way to see porn films was in a XXX theater. You couldn't watch them in the privacy of your home.

      Today, I can watch porn on VHS, or DVD. Or pay-per-view. Or satellite. Or the 'net. Or video-CD. Or I could play a porn related video game. Porn helped VHS because it was really the first time you could watch porn in the privacy of your home, so the inability to do that on Beta was big. That's not an issue today.

      Please, can we just drop that stupid argument? It doesn't hold much water any more.

    3. Re:Poor Sony by Firehed · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How much of that media attention turned into sales? They may have made the allowance after everyone assumed that would kill the format, but did it really make any difference?

      Rephrase: How much porn have I bought on DVD? None. How much have I downloaded? Let's... uhhh... I'm sure my mom doesn't read Slashdot, so let's say "more than none". Of that more than none, how much is already in HD? All of the pics, and with the price of HD camcorders dropping, expect video to move that way. But how much of that will even make it to an HD format once they make the change? Considering the cost of pressing discs versus bandwidth? I'd expect very little.

      So yeah, the parent is pretty safe in saying that porn will have very little or no impact this time around.

      --
      How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
  4. Re:Fourth by Perseid · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Ooh! The same crap with MORE DRM on it? Sign me up...or not.

  5. Yes, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...how bad is its DRM? That's really the only thing I care about. Whichever format will give me - a paying customer - the freedom to do what I want with my movies will get my money. If none do, I'm sticking with regular DVDs.

    1. Re:Yes, but... by gad_zuki! · · Score: 1, Insightful

      >Whichever format will give me - a paying customer - the freedom to do what I want with my movies will get my money. If none do, I'm sticking with regular DVDs.

      DVDs certainly do not give you any freedom, they locked down with css. Oh right, so becuse css is crackable makes DVDs the idealized format. You are ignoring that the DVD people think just as little of you as the HD format people. Hollywood will not give you what you want. If you want to be mr copyleft then address your hollywood addiction, give up on companies that force format makers to do this, and enjoy your reams of public access television HDDVDs. Sad that mr activist will never boycott hollywood or the music industry. Why should they change their ways if you keep handing them your paycheck? Thats like going into a mcdonalds, buying a value meal, and then complaining that there's too much fat in the McLean while biting down on a Big Mac.

      There's nothing worse than a complainer who wont get off his ass. The collective lack of action has led to the acceptance of DRM in our lives: dvd, hddvd, apple music store, etc. Lets not pretend DVDs are some magical drm-free format. Thanks.

    2. Re:Yes, but... by yabos · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Apple doesn't own the music they sell you, they license it from the music labels. If the music labels say they can't use the same songs for ringtones then Apple can't easily let you do it under the terms of their contract. Why don't you blame the labels because it's their fault not Apple's.

    3. Re:Yes, but... by johnkzin · · Score: 2, Insightful


      I think his point wasn't "DVD's are good", I think his point was "I'm not going to shift to a NEW format unless it is good". In essence, he's saying "I'm not going to shift from smoking cigarettes to smoking cigars, because cigars can cause cancer, so I'll stick with the carcinogen I've got until there's a non-carcinogen alternative".

      You could argue, as you seem to, that "if you don't stop smoking cigarettes while you wait for a non-carcinogen alternative to come along, then you're still at risk of cancer" ...

      But I think his perspective is "I'll keep the devil I know, instead of adopting the devil I don't know".

      I see your point: if none are good, then pick none (not even DVD's). But, I also think it's not very realistic. The only people who are going to pick that option are people who aren't enamored with the movies in the first place. So, saying it to someone who clearly is enamored with movies is just pissing into the wind.

      How's that for a mixed bag of metaphors :-)

    4. Re:Yes, but... by obeythefist · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How bad is the DRM? Great question. But step a little deeper. We know the MPAA coke snorters firmly believe DRM works. We can therefore assume that they will only support formats that use "strong" DRM (that means, DRM that has a lot of marketing behind it to make the coke snorters believe it actually works).

      So, either it has equivalent DRM to Blu-ray and HD-DVD, and then there's really no benefit over this technology than the others apart from maybe cost or whatever, and the MPAA cartel still might not invest in it because they already have new revenue streams from the other formats anyway.

      Or it has no DRM, in which case no MPAA support. It might be an awesome product, but if you can't buy new movies on it, it won't reach mainstream acceptance and the economies of scale that drive the retail costs down, so it will not compare with the other formats in terms of features and price.

      --
      I am government man, come from the government. The government has sent me. -- G.I.R.
    5. Re:Yes, but... by niktemadur · · Score: 2, Insightful

      GPP: In that regard Apple really suck and are worse than even Microsoft.

      PP: Apple doesn't own the music they sell you, they license it from the music labels.

      I have to agree with the second quote. Due to the current laws as well as unnegotiable terms of contract drafted by the giant labels, either Apple complies or gets locked out of the market, so in this respect Apple is a gear in a vast, putrid machine they did not create.

      Remember that Napster corporate and legislative hysteria preceded the iTunes Music Store, which is important to emphasize, offered the first legitimate and user-friendly music download option. And even now, after massive and prolonged negotiations, the major labels keep on flexing muscle, so that at all times, fleets of lawyers remain deployed by all sides. And then there are countless nuances, such as Led Zep wanting customers to buy the full album, as opposed to individual songs, etc.

      In this sense, the consequences of the success of the iPod has placed Apple in a tightrope, navigating between bad PR and loss of content for sale. Technological uncharted waters may be a fine thing, but legal and corporate... yuck.

      BTW, I'm not trying to apologize for Apple, which pisses me off in several other respects, it's just that I see an unholy maze out there, and I have to call this one for Apple.

      --
      Lil' Thindime, lilting a lacrimose lament, krashes the kwaint konfines of Kokonino Kounty
  6. Will there be content? by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That's the core question. Will there be any content for this player? Will the studios release content for it?

    The only other chance, if the studios don't jump onto it, is to squeeze out a writer for it quickly and make this the next big thing in computer storage and HD content copying. If it can hold a full HD movie, people who don't care too much about DRM or buying content will be very interested in it. Then, and only then, you can get a standard into the market without the support of the content providers.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  7. Whoever fight, we already know who has won.... by DrYak · · Score: 4, Insightful

    who will win that aspect to the format war?


    Be it BlueRay, be it HD-DVD, or HD VMD, or chinese EVD.
    We don't give a fuck about who battling against who on the market.

    We already know who won the battle :
    - the unknown noname chinese hardware maker who'll market a cheap plastic reader, that'll read anything you'll put in it and that'll cost only a few dozens of .
    Seriously.

    whether the movie companies will pick it up


    No, the only thing that will matter is if the cheap hardware maker will pick it up.

    Last time, the whole DVD "plus" RW vs. DVD "minus" RW vs. DVD-RAM debate was made pointless once asian makers started to push multi format burners.

    Before thatm the DVD (the hidef format) vs. SuperVCD (the cheaper with older hardware) vs. DivX (the internet alternative) was made obsolete now that you can pick-up a DVD/MP3/MPEG-4 reader for less than 50$ at your local store.

    The exact same story will repeat it self the next few years with the HD format war. While marketoid will go at great lenght arguing which is better between BlueRay and HD-DVD and while you should pick *their* technology because most of the studio are backing *that one*, the public will quietly stand back, enjoy the fight, and wait patiently until cheap multi-format reader appear.

    LG and Samsung have such movie players and media burners coming to their products line-up and others companies are to follow. The cheap brandless aren't far away.
    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  8. Whoever puts out a cheap recorder wins by erroneus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Once these recording devices make it into the hands of legislators and judges, nothing can stop them. Think about how RIM survived the injunction order. There were so many congress people and senators using crackberry, that nothing could shut them down. And if someone were to create better home recorders with the new "old" technology, no amount of lobbying, donating or influencing will force them out... now if we could just get this technology into the hands of legislators fast enough...

  9. What about HD Divx from a normal old DVD? by Kris_J · · Score: 2, Insightful

    My current DVD player will play high definition Divx files from DVD or from a flash drive or hard drive plugged into its USB port. The compression rate is plenty good enough to shoe-horn a full-length HD movie onto a dual-layer DVD. Lots of existing devices and pretty much every PC on the planet made in the last five years should be able to play that.

  10. PS3 is low-end? by perdue · · Score: 2, Insightful

    for around $150 ... a quarter the cost of a low-end Blu-ray.
    If it was intentional flamebait, no one seems to have taken it. Good on y'all.
  11. It all comes down to $$$ by D.A.+Zollinger · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I am of the impression that uninformed consumers do not concern themselves with technical details, and are far more motivated by cost. I believe this is why VHS won out over Beta, and why HD VMD will destroy both Blu-ray and HD DVD formats.

    While movie studios will want DRM on their disks, ultimately they desire sales, and will go with whatever format dominates the marketplace, no matter how much or little DRM is in place. However, as the article mentions that the $150 player comes with HDMI, I suspect they have comparable DRM to the other HD competitors.

    --
    I haven't lost my mind!
    It is backed up on disk...somewhere...
  12. Criterion Collection. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'll move to a high-def format as soon Criterion Collection moves to a high-def format. As it stands now, I couldn't care less about watching cars explode in 1080p.

  13. Re:Fourth by Bonobo_Unknown · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Sad times when the discussion about the media and file format is more interesting than the content that they carry.

    --
    We don't believe in radical loony monotheistic religions from the middle east -- we're Christians.
  14. Re:Waste of time by Kuciwalker · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What the FUCK. Paragraphs, please.

  15. Why? by Hitchcock_Blonde · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why are we still buying discs? I, for one, will not get sucked into yet another "hard" media format. All the time and energy wasted on developing these dead-end formats should be put into making the content available online quickly and easily.

    --
    Karma Schmarma
  16. MPEG2? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Using MPEG2 is a bit of a waste. If H264 was used, the same quality HD would fit on DVD9.

    Perhaps the H264 addition will be Very Versatile Media Disc.

    Or VVMD, or WMD for short.