Slashdot Mirror


Big Brother Really Is Watching Us All

siddesu writes "The BBC has a nice high-level overview of some technologies for surveillance developed in the US and the UK. 'The US and UK governments are developing increasingly sophisticated gadgets to keep individuals under their surveillance. When it comes to technology, the US is determined to stay ahead of the game ... But it [a through-the wall sensing device in development] will also show whether someone inside a house is looking to harm you, because if they are, their heart rate will be raised. And 10 years from now, the technology will be much smarter. We'll scan a person with one of these things and tell what they're actually thinking.'"

17 of 405 comments (clear)

  1. Ineffective by kccricket · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Terrorists will simply train themselves to remain calm and lower their heartrate.

    --
    * chirp * chirp *
    1. Re:Ineffective by Nossie · · Score: 5, Insightful

      HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA !!!!

      And you actually thought it was aimed at terrorism?

      HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA !!!! /moment of temporary insanity

    2. Re:Ineffective by DaedalusHKX · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Actually most trained professionals generally maintain calm when preparing to kill someone.

      Its only untrained schmucks like us out here in the "regular Joe Bloggs world" that start pushing lots of red stuff through our hearts when we're about to do something we're not accustomed to (on slashdot, that is equal possibilities, sex or killing... j/k). I'm pretty sure most of us slashdotters have only killed things in videogames and with a fly swatter.

      I can guarantee there isn't one among us who would have the ability or training to remain calm while the ninja masked, body armored thug squad is romping through the house, searching for us with the heartbeat monitor... If you can maintain your cool while that is happening, then you should be operating your own assassin for hire business and stop posting on slashdot... you're wasting your time here :)

      As for the rest of us... take deep breaths folks... we've already given them so much leeway to use when they screw us, why stop now?

      --
      " What luck for rulers that men do not think" - Adolf Hitler
  2. Just like the polygraph by Ginnungagap42 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "And 10 years from now, the technology will be much smarter. We'll scan a person with one of these things and tell what they're actually thinking."

    I call crap on this. We will be able to detect biometric data. We will not be able to tell "what you're thinking."

    1. Re:Just like the polygraph by Fex303 · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Sorry, but this is silly idea.

      1) MRI is really hard to do. You can't just throw everyone into one, especially not at airports. It just takes one person forgetting to take off their metal bracers and you have one hell of a mess.

      2) FMRI is really hard to do, and still not fine-grained enough to detect any of this.

      3) Annoyance is not uncontrolled violence.

      4) Last I checked, there's no 'anger' center of the brain, so much as there as section of the brain that controls affect - the prefrontal cortex may have some control over emotional reactions and social setting, but that's part of a greater notion of executive function.

      5) Even if you had a way to measure annoyance, I think you'll find that anyone who's being held up at customs after a 20 hour flight so they can watch a video from inside a bizarre machine will be registering pretty highly on the annoy-o-meter no matter what you show them.

      6) If you think that terrorists are thinking along the same political lines as we are, only somewhat more to the left, then you're seriously misguided and need to stop watching Fox. (You think that Muslim fundamentalists won't be annoyed by gay rights videos?)

      7) If you think a right wing group hasn't already started blowing shit up, then I suggest you have a good think about what terrorist attacks have happened on US soil. The worst was 9/11, and the second was?

      The overall idea of the thing is flawed. If my psych major in undergrad taught me one thing (other than statistics), it's that we're extremely complex creatures, with brains that are hard to understand. Political philosophies are some of the most complex systems of abstract thought that we come up with. Deducing them when the opponent is trying to give a different impression is going require something far in advance of the sort of tech we have now.

  3. It's just an excuse. Re:Heart Rate Raised? by Erris · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'd rather the government not base their decision on whether to come in guns blazing on something as ridiculous as whether my heart rate is increased...

    They will base the decision on your political expression and activism, the other things will simply justify your murder. The elevated heart rate will come when they ask you if you and your children would like some pancakes. The report will say that they had reason to believe you were armed and dangerous.

    Unless the US returns to rule of law, tools used to track individuals will be used to identify, harass, intimidate, disrupt and eliminate opposition. Domestic spying is against the law. Unreasonable search violates the Constitution. It is completely unreasonable for government or industry to keep tables of "gait DNA" and other metrics for people who have not committed crimes. The purpose for this kind of thing is a crime in itself.

    --
    DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
  4. ubiquitous surveillance ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm beginning to think society is getting rather close to an era of ubiquitous surveillance ... where virtually every action (and eventually even thoughts) of every person is viewable, recordable, replayable, broadcastable, etc.

    It's a scary thought at first, but then I got to thinking that as the technologies behind this mature and become more powerful (as all technologies do) we will eventually reach a point where "everybody" really means "everybody" ... corporate executives looking to skim a little cream for themselves ... politicians inking secret deals ... extremist groups looking to do harm to others in society ... that asshole neighbour who puts his garbage in front of your house late at night to avoid the excess bag charge ... everybody.

    Maybe, just maybe, ubiquitous surveillance will be the thing that saves humankind from the antisocial forces that currently plague us. When anybody can have their actions exposed on YouTube (or whatever the equivalent is in the future), people will be shamed into behaving in decent, harmonious way. It will be like some kind of techno-buddhist utopia.

    1. Re:ubiquitous surveillance ... by wordsnyc · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's adorable. The Free Market (tm) Panopticon is gonna save us.

      Try this: there is no symmetry of rights in a class society. They get to watch you; watching them is a crime. FOIA compliance is already disappearing.

      --
      Sent from the iPad I found in your car.
  5. Re:This reminds me of my youth in Poland. by FooAtWFU · · Score: 3, Insightful
    This may be the case for NYC, but to be fair, NYC is hardly representative of the States at large. And NYC has ten times the population of Krakow. (Places like, oh, Washington DC have fewer excuses...) The domestic flight ID matter is a point, but it's also worth noting that the US is a lot bigger than Poland, so "domestic" flights aren't quiite the same thing. As for intercity rail, I've never tried Amtrak - their web page seems to say you'll need ID - but gaaak, who'd want to bother with Amtrak anyway? (Greyhound might be another comparison, and a cursory inspection seems to indicate they don't require it.)

    Mind you, there's still plenty to go on about nationwide, but less than 3% of us are subject to the NYC level of, ah, crackdowns.

    I suppose you could make some comparison with rural Poland as well, though. Eh.

    --
    The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
  6. Re:This reminds me of my youth in Poland. by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 4, Insightful
    You should move there. Let us know how it goes.

    I'm considering it -- plenty of opportunities in technology and engineering since the country is developing rapidly, and I'm a citizen by parentage so I'd have no problem getting a work permit or establishing a corporation there.

    BTW: I never quite understood the sentiment that if someone says that a place has some good points over the USA, they're somehow not worthy of being an American. Having a citizenry that acknowledges its country's faults makes that country a better and stronger place, since they talk about the faults and strive to correct them. Blind acceptance serves no one.

    -b.

  7. Re:They can do this now, sort of. by eli+pabst · · Score: 4, Insightful

    AFAIK, they do this using fMRI. So they'll need to figure out how to build a MRI machine that is big enough to fit over your house without anyone noticing and a way to keep all the ferrous metal objects in your house from turning it into one big blender, otherwise I doubt they could detect field changes that small anytime soon. I would agree with you about correlating general emotional responses with specific brain activity though.

  8. Re:I hope they really can read my mind.... by Perseid · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yep. And what will the parents have to say when their kids scan them and see all the same stuff? :)

  9. Re:Where do they get their numbers? by gillbates · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There's a big difference between "don't care" and "wanting more surveillance".

    I too, have met the I'm-an-idiot-so-I-have-nothing-to-hide type. However, their indifference is fueled by their trust in humanity, and the fact that for most people, getting struck by lighting is a greater risk than being falsely imprisoned by their government for political reasons. Those without any political convictions won't ever be political prisoners.

    I could accept that 75% are indifferent. What is unacceptable is translating "indifference" to "wanting more surveillance". I believe it is more correct to say that the average American doesn't want to be bothered by the question of surveillance, a subtle, but important difference. It doesn't mean they want more surveillance, but that they consider the appropriate level a surveillance a question better answered by the police. If they had to personally share the cost of the cameras; if the cameras inconvenienced them in some way, they'd probably take a different view.

    --
    The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
  10. Meh... by The+Master+Control+P · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If they really decide to be dicks about this "through the wall" surveillance shit, I'll definitely open up a market for me. I'll buy rolls of copper cloth, sew it inbetween pieces of fabric, and start marketing my new and exciting line of Faraday Clothes.

    Soon after I do this, weavers of copper cloth will be required to report all their sales over fifty square feet to the DEA. Wearing faraday clothes will be considered evidence of guilt, like an encrypted hard drive. If you install fine-weave copper mesh in your walls, it will be used to get a warrant for a midnight raid. Y'know, like if you use too much power today.

    I'm only half joking... I actually think making faraday-cage clothes would be neat just to have them.

  11. Re:Elevated Heart Rate? by weber · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And if they're scared their heart rate won't be elevated as well? You'll get an elevated heart rate from many things that aren't sinister.

  12. Through the wall ? by Ihlosi · · Score: 4, Insightful
    But it [a through-the wall sensing device in development]



    Now, wait a minute. Are they "sensing" through American walls (cardboard, wood and plaster) or through European walls (bricks or concrete) ? There's quite a bit of difference here, as anyone who tried to set up a WLAN may have found out ...

  13. Re:I hope they really can read my mind.... by HuguesT · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The inquisition also justified their crimes by trying to make blasphemers repent so they could avoid Hell.

    The second paragraph may be what you believe, but it does not compute. Education only has a minor influence on these matters: look no further than various forms of Mafias for well-educated, Christian or otherwise religious thugs.