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Valve Reevaluates Episodic Gaming

Posted by Zonk on from the loose-definition-of-working dept.

Dr. Eggman writes "CVG has a recent article on Valve's future plans for episodic gaming. After the third episode of Half-Life 2 is out, Valve plans to sit down with the community and figure out what is working and what's not. Gabe Newell also wants to spend time with Telltale Games and Blizzard, both developers of episodic and episodic-like game content. It it worth it to try to release content on an episodic basis? 'We just want to sit down with three examples in front of us and talk it over with gamers to find out what they would like us to do next.'"

22 of 142 comments (clear)

  1. The problem with episodic gaming... by nojjynb · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ... isn't that we aren't getting a full game, or that they're spreading out the story over 3 or 4 games. No, the problem is when they say they'll release them between 9 and 12 months apart, and they don't release the second episode for 2 years.

    I'm a fan of the quick, 8 hour episodes, released yearly. I'm not a fan of having to wait 2 years for that type of content when many games put out full blown sequels. Honestly, either work on upgrading the engine, or work on the episodic content, not both at the same time. Besides, why should what is essentially an overgrown expansion pack run on a different engine than the original? Bang out the new content while you have another team working on upgrading the engine, then you could go back and make the old content run on the new engine, or not, as you please.

    1. Re:The problem with episodic gaming... by *weasel · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Exactly.

      Valve re-evaluating episodic gaming is like me re-evaluating my relationship with Salma Hayek.

      --
      // "Can't clowns and pirates just -try- to get along?"
    2. Re:The problem with episodic gaming... by dyslexicbunny · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That's pretty much the same problem I've had with the episodic gaming. They promised new content every 6 months, which was nice since I got to play new parts to the franchise every 6 months instead of every two years. I always considered the perk being that I never really forgot about the series and kept wanting to play.

      Like you, I always saw episodic content in the sense of we release episodes on release A. Keep working on release B and integrate it for a major release (like HL3). I think Valve lost focus on what they needed to do to keep episodes releasing on schedule. Perhaps someone kept saying that major changes were almost done or adding them would make this XX% better. I suppose it could be construed as mismanagement since I think you have to reign that sort of thinking it if it's causing problems.

      But since I'm not in charge of one of the most successful franchises, I'm not really in a position to do anything but give my opinion and think it's good. Perhaps if I were their shoes, I'd know something different.

    3. Re:The problem with episodic gaming... by Lord_Dweomer · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Not to mention that episodic gaming as a whole has been one thinly veiled attempt at milking more money out of consumers "per episode" than it would normally cost for the game. Remember way back in the day when companies used to release free content patches? Yeah, that'll never happen again. Episodic content will ensure you get nickle and dimed for everything you've got.

      --
      Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
    4. Re:The problem with episodic gaming... by BeanBagKing · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I for one will not chastise a company that pushes a release date back, even this far, in order to make a quality product. I've played far too many games that are bugged, crash, some won't even install correctly. I've played several that are easier to pirate because piracy removed a lot of the problems I was having (I still own a copy however). I've said it before and I'll say it again. If the product is worth it (as half-life 2 certainly is), I'm willing to wait the time it takes to make it perfect. Do I wish that they could release every 6 months? of course. Do I want them to rush it out the door in 6 months the way a lot of companies would do? No, that would kill the game, and I hope most people here realize it. Failing them meeting the 6 month date, do I wish they could have given me an accurate time line to begin with? again, of course, but as someone who dabbles in code and computers myself, I know the unexpected pops up. Way to go Valve for making one of the few games I've enjoyed enough to play through to the end, and leaving me still wanting more.

    5. Re:The problem with episodic gaming... by JayDot · · Score: 2, Informative

      So far my favorite "episodic" release has been Guild Wars. They've released three major, stand-alone titles in 18 months, plus a high-level "expansion pack". All have been top-quality.

      --
      Meh, a real sig would take too long, and I have an MMORPG to play with....
    6. Re:The problem with episodic gaming... by happyemoticon · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I am really skeptical of any engine improvements for one big reason: HDR/Bloom slows my computer down to a crawl. Yeah, it looks awesome, but I can't justify spending the money to get a system that handle that level of graphical glitz.

      You bring up an important point, though: do engine improvements make a game better? No more than special effects improve a movie's plot. In fact, if I had a dime for every time showing off some CGI bullshit actually made a movie's cinematography worse, I'd have about ten bucks thanks to the Star Wars prequel trilogy alone. I'd say that graphical glamor should never be so grandiose that it slows down a game's user interface (if it has one as such), and that, in many cases, cartoonish graphics and fewer frills actually make a game more playable, and thus a better game. Other elements of a "blockbuster" game, such as extensive plot development and cutscenage, are also anti-game in the sense that they distract you from the actual point of the game which is to, uh, play the game. I was playing FFX for the first time earlier this week, and I just couldn't stand it. You take away all the atrocious yammering and soulful gazes, and all you're left with is too little of a fairly banal game.

      Of course, the caveat to this is that, in many cases, engine improvements can contribute to sales, and a game can't really sell itself on its gaming merits. And, as Ken Levine pointed out on that talk show he was on recently, politics can lead to business decisions being made for purely b2b-related reasons, and I'm sure it only gets worse when you're a titan of a company like Valve. This isn't too hard for me to imagine:

      Valve Exec: ... Yeah, so we're not too hot on the whole "Bloom" thing. I mean, it's cool and all, but implementing it properly presents a challenge, and it adds another variable for the level designers and artists to think about, and it's just going to slow down production.
      Nvidia Rep: Oh? Really? Gee, that's really disappointing...
      Valve Exec: What do you mean?
      Nvidia Rep: Oh, I don't know. I mean, you know, if all of the game companies in the world stopped pushing technology, we'd basically be out of business.
      Valve Exec: We're not talking about bloom never, just not for this quick episodic release business plan we're having. When we come out with our next major title, it's definitely got bloom.
      Nvidia Rep: Yeah, and when's that gonna be? 2010 or 2011 if we take into account your last hit. Look, you're one of the big developers. One of the only big developers. Who's going to do it if you don't? Bethesda? Shit, come on. And we do a lot of nice things for you in terms of features and API support. I mean, I guess we might just have to stop doing those if you're not going to play ball. Valve Exec: Okay, hang on. *picks up phone* Yeah, hey, you know, I'd really like you to try to get that bloom stuff into Episode 2. What? Yeah, I know it'll delay it, that's fine. But we're just talking a few months, right?

    7. Re:The problem with episodic gaming... by ShadowsHawk · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Except their NOT $20 each. Ep1 was $20 and Ep2 will be $30. We're already at $50, so unless Ep3 is $10, we're not getting what was promised. As for the 'Orange box'; I already own Half-Life 2 and Ep1. They should be rewarding loyal fans rather than punishing them.

    8. Re:The problem with episodic gaming... by GeckoX · · Score: 2, Informative

      Sorry, you're right:

      Step 1: Come up with general idea for grand magnum opus.
      Step 2: Decide it'll be in 7 parts.
      Step 3: Plan out first 3 parts.
      Step 4: Write and sell first 3 parts.
      Step 5: ?
      Step 6: Profit!

      I DO know quite a bit about it. I was a HUGE SK fan thank you very much. It is well know that other than a very loose idea of the 7 books, there was almost no initial planning beyond the first 3 other than an overarching idea.

      Reading the entire series, it's all but impossible to miss this. There's the first 3 books...and then there's the other 4 books. They are so incredibly different that they could have been written by completely different authors with completely different visions.

      Regardless, it's not exactly a good example of quality 'episodic content' now is it? Most people would agree with that...though very often people become very apologetic when defending something they've spent so much time waiting to come to it's conclusion.

      Anyways, you know what my point was, so instead of attacking the example based on your own feelings...both being all but irrelevant to the point at hand...how about addressing the point that was being made?

      --
      No Comment.
    9. Re:The problem with episodic gaming... by SpryGuy · · Score: 2, Informative

      Let's see... I only want Episode 2. I don't want Team Fortress 2, and I already have Half-Life 2 and Episode 1.

      "Portal" is a nice bonus, but still, I'm having to buy this huge bundle, half of which is redundant, and a big part of which I don't want and won't play (TF2).

      Having to wait 2 years for them to put all this together, and pay more for it, when I could have/should have gotten just Episode 2 a year ago, at a much cheaper cost, is frustrating.

      You don't think that's frustrating?

      --

      - Spryguy
      There are three kinds of people in this world: those that can count and those that can't
  2. I've heard this one before. by DarrenBaker · · Score: 5, Funny

    Valve plans to sit down with the community and figure out what is working and what's not. Are... Are you breaking up with me?
  3. The Orange box insult to existing HL2 owners. by Trevelyan · · Score: 3, Interesting

    All I can say that the Orange Box promotion is a slap in the face for those of us that already have Half-Life 2 and Episode 1.

    I see no sign of a Episode 2+Portal+Team Fortress (ie no HL2+E1) promotion (and pre-order discount), and who wants to pay for the same content twice?

    I maybe wrong, but if so, then Steam has done a poor job of advertising any alternative promotions. Especially considering it already knows what games I own.

    1. Re:The Orange box insult to existing HL2 owners. by W2k · · Score: 2, Informative

      When you buy the OB, you get gift certificates for HL2 and HL2:Ep1 if you already own those games. I would probably have bought it even if it meant paying for those games twice; the $45 it cost are easily worth it for HL2:Ep2, Portal and TF2 alone.

      --
      Quality, performance, value; you get only two, and you don't always get to pick.
    2. Re:The Orange box insult to existing HL2 owners. by Aladrin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's only an insult if you let it be. You -knew- that the price would come down if you waited. If you wait long enough, the price comes to down almost nothing. In this case, it came down to exactly nothing, if you purchase the Orange Box. (Orange Box is $50, the price of a new game, and includes 3 new games, even if one is just an episode.)

      You paid to play it when it came out, and all the time up until Orange Box is released. If you feel like you were cheated, DON'T BUY NEW GAMES. This will happen every single time. The price ALWAYS comes down eventually. You will, of course, miss the best years of the product's life, especially online. That's up to you.

      So buy it or don't, but don't claim you've been cheated. No, the truth is, the people that waited have a small bonus.

      --
      "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
    3. Re:The Orange box insult to existing HL2 owners. by adagioforstrings · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, unlike the other folks here, I agree with you. The "Black Box" was the set that contained only the three games you mentioned. Valve eliminated it because stores apparently didn't want two SKUs for basically the same thing. The list price for the three we don't have is $80, but consider that Episode 2 is priced $10 (50%!) higher than Episode 1, and the other two games are arguably $5-$10 higher than similar products in the past. I probably won't play TF2 much just because I don't have time for multiplayer anymore. Who knows how much of a game Portal is. I've prepurchased all the new Valve games in the past, but this time it's just a little hard for me to swallow. I may actually wait for reviews this time before purchasing. If someone else feels like they get the value out of it, then fine, but I'm not sure I will.

    4. Re:The Orange box insult to existing HL2 owners. by east+coast · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I just want to go on the record and say that Lost Coast hardly counts as a game or an episode. Any semi-talented HL2 player could run the entire map in under a half an hour. It was more like a demo and, IMHO, I think that's what Valve meant it as; a demo of their new rendering techniques.

      --
      Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
    5. Re:The Orange box insult to existing HL2 owners. by W2k · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm certain they'll offer Episode 2 on its own once it's out. Likely it'll be priced the same as Ep1 was on release, which was about $30 if I remember incorrectly. So some people will no doubt whine that they are being ripped off when TOB, which contains the full game in addition to lots of other goodies, is only $15 more.

      So let them whine. It's a bundle; the whole point of a bundle is that you get more value for less money. If this includes some stuff you don't want, do a simple cost/benefit and decide if it's worth it anyway; if not, don't buy the bundle. It's STUPIDLY SIMPLE. Yet some people will still whine, like Valve should be obligated to provide a good deal that fits their needs precisely. Childish and immature.

      --
      Quality, performance, value; you get only two, and you don't always get to pick.
    6. Re:The Orange box insult to existing HL2 owners. by SpryGuy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      We were promised at the time EP1 came out (and was purchased) that a separate, individual EP2 would come out in 6-9 months for the same cost (under $20).

      So yes, it is an insult. We were lied to. They failed to keep their promises. And if we had known that our choice would be limited to just this "orange box" back then, I woudln't have bothered buying EP1 at the time.

      They're out to screw their loyal customers, pure and simple. There's no other explaination for it. Why the hell did they cancel the "black box"? And why MUST TF2 (which I have zero interest in) be bundled with EP2??

      We have been cheated, we have been lied to, and we are being screwed.

      --

      - Spryguy
      There are three kinds of people in this world: those that can count and those that can't
  4. Its a difficult question... by PJ1216 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    In my opinion, fewer original games are coming out. Episodic content for great games is fine. Half-Life is an example of this. However, I think thats an exception in an ongoing trend in video games. I think fewer and fewer games are coming out that are even worthwhile purchasing as opposed to renting. There just aren't that many games that are coming out that are newsworthy. Bio-shock and Halo 3 are some examples of games worth buying. PS3 hasn't had any yet in my opinion (and if they don't real soon, they might as well go the way of sega). Even Wii doesn't have that many (It's doing so well just because of the gameplay, but when it comes down to it, it just has a bunch of games that are fun, but not that many that are as engrossing as Bio-shock or to name a classic, Final Fantasy VII.)

    It just seems like gaming has gone the same route as movies. Yea, some sequels are decent, but a majority of the ones that come out are never as great as the original. Then on top of that, there are fewer and fewer movies being made that are worth seeing more than once. yea, they're entertaining the first time, but no replay value.

    Unfortunately, I think we've hit a downward slope in terms of games as an art.

    I think they need to get to more original content. yea, some people might be upset because some of these continuing stories are really great, but I can't see anyone ever keeping that up. Eventually they'll start making bad ones because only so much can happen in a storyline that is exciting. Writers eventually run out of ideas. Then the franchise is ruined and everybody will complain. Its better leaving on a high note, then dragging it out until no one wants it.

    Hopefully I got my point across. Kind of tired and I may have rambled a bit. =P

  5. Telltale has it right by spyrochaete · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I much prefer the way Telltale did their episodic series to Valve's. If I recall, the second Sam and Max episode came out a little late, but all the rest were either on time or early. A month between episodes was the perfect length - my excitement from the last episode hadn't cooled by the time the next one came out. Having the option to buy all episodes in advance for a greatly reduced price was a much better idea than Orange box, which would have been a great deal 3 years ago. Telltale even made a gorgeous retail DVD box available to season subscribers for merely the cost of shipping, and it was packed with tons of content not included in the digital downloads. Very timely, classy, and professional.

    I love Half Life and I really love Episode One. I hate how long it was in development and would rather have played it a year sooner with no HDR. The again, Valve's releases are near-immaculate and the developer commentary hints at how much painstaking care they put into their games, so I've learned not to wish too hard that they rush their releases. Still, it's been YEARS since the last episode and if for some reason Episode Two never came out I'd hardly miss it at this point.

    1. Re:Telltale has it right by Bieeanda · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I imagine that Telltale is also a smaller outfit and coming up with jokes and storylines aside, the S&M engine is easier to bolt things onto and script for. Scene-based adventure games are doubtlessly easier to develop on a technical level, since there are far fewer places for the player to sneak under the world or exploit AI.

      That said, something like S&M, or the CSI games that Telltale puts out too, are [i]perfect[/i] for episodic gaming. Shooters have gone so far beyond the days of Wolf3D and Doom, that developing in chunks like that is counterproductive at best. Blizzard's quasi-episodic updates (or Cryptic's "Issue #" updates for City of Foozles) are a similarly unfair comparison: Valve's entire staff could probably fit comfortably in one of Blizzard's meeting rooms. They have sheer manpower to throw at testing, modular components like AI and pathing, or discrete chunks of map, or quest writing, that Valve or a dedicated modding team doesn't.

      Valve's stuck in the same tight spot that killed Sin: Episodes' developer. A graphically attractive, well-balanced shooter takes a lot more man-hours to develop than the shooters of yesteryear did. Short chapters with cliffhanger endings only work well if you've got the next chapter lined up for release before the audience gets bored. WoW has a ton of content to begin with, and S&M episodes come out just often enough to make the player base excited. Waiting a year or more for a few hours of same-game play and middling exposition is not something that enthuses the average player. Waiting a year or more for a full-blown expansion or sequel, is another matter entirely.

  6. I love episodic gaming by Baldrake · · Score: 2, Funny

    I love episodic gaming, and am very much looking forward to Bioware's release of Witch's Wake episode 2.

    It's perhaps instructive to think about some of the things that happened in the world since episode 1 was released in Dec. 2004:

    • W. Mark Felt was confirmed to be Watergate's "Deep Throat"
    • Michael Jackson was found not guilty of child molestation charges
    • Lance Armstrong retired after winning his seventh Tour de France
    • The Xbox 360, PS 3 and Wii were released
    And for those Bioware boys in Edmonton:
    • The NHL cancelled its 2004/05 season.

    But there's nothing like a bit of a wait to build anticipation.