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Amazon MP3 Vs. iTunes Music Store

Ali writes "As discussed here recently, amazon.com has launched a public beta of Amazon MP3, a digital music store that provides DRM-free downloads of over 2 million songs from 180,000 artists and 20,000 labels. In comparison, Apple says the iTunes Store now contains over 6 million songs. Here is a head-to-head comparison."

34 of 310 comments (clear)

  1. I choose Amazon (Prime) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I still like getting the actual CDs. Better quality, fewer restrictions, less chance of me losing it, etc. With Prime I get them in a couple days, which is fast enough for me, then I convert them to FLAC for later conversion to any other format I desire.

    1. Re:I choose Amazon (Prime) by 0123456789 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      They're so close to getting it right though; why not, when you order the CD from Amazon, allow you to download the MP3 while you're waiting for the 'couple of days' shipping?

    2. Re:I choose Amazon (Prime) by anagama · · Score: 4, Funny

      Crap. If I like an song a lot, I end up listening to it over and over and over incessantly. Longest was around 3 weeks. And when I say incessantly, I mean constantly -- just leave the song on repeat. If I'm that stuck and I turn it off, I get uncomfortable as it imperfectly echoes through my head. If I try to listen to something else, I just get frustrated. So anyway, I have a certain subset of songs for which I've really gotten my money's worth.

      --
      What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
    3. Re:I choose Amazon (Prime) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      You need to seek professional help, my friend.

    4. Re:I choose Amazon (Prime) by Guppy06 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "fewer restrictions"

      After seeing how many music disks are sold without the CD-DA logo, strongly suggesting that there is non-audio, likely executable code on the disk to interfere with ripping, I have my doubts about this. I find myself wondering if, at this point, buying a DRM-free MP3 from Amazon actually leaves the consumer more liberated than buying a music disk.

  2. Bad info in article. by SocialEngineer · · Score: 4, Informative

    iPod compatibility. Thanks to the lack of DRM, and in particular, Windows-specific DRM, songs purchased from Amazon MP3 will play on an iPod, something that has never been true for a mainstream online music retailer (other than Apple) before. Wow. I wonder if this place has ever heard of eMusic.
    --
    "Better to be vulgar than non-existent" -Bev Henson
    1. Re:Bad info in article. by Jeffrey+Baker · · Score: 5, Informative

      eMusic is certainly not a mainstream music retailer. They don't sell you MP3s the way the grocer sells you a melon. You have to sign up for a month and you're allowed to download a song a day, roughly, although nobody does that. I can go to Amazon and spend 89c on a single song and never return. At eMusic, I have to pay $9.99 at least and then I have to remember to cancel it if I don't want it any more.

    2. Re:Bad info in article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Wow. I wonder if this place has ever heard of eMusic.


      Your comment was the first time I'd heart of it (or perhaps I'd read of it in passing before, but this is the first time it registered.)

      So, I went to go see what how their selection is. Guess what, can't do anything without signing up for a trial (and giving them name, address and a credit card number.) You really think I'm going to do that when I have no idea what bands they even carry?

      Plus the "deal" seems to resemble those old shady Columbia House ads my parents would never let me sign up for. $10 for 30 downloads a month. Not sure what it costs to buy more than 30, and of course if you don't choose 30 songs you're still out the money. Sorry, but that doesn't work for me. Buying music is an impulsive thing. I don't want a steady stream of 30 songs to pick a month. I want to buy things on a whim, some times no songs a month, some times going on a tear and buying dozens or hundreds when I discover a new band or genre.

      And of course, if they don't have what I want, I'll have to get it elsewhere-- while still paying them their monthly fee. And I guarantee they won't have everything I want. Fuck that.

      Maybe this has something to do with why no one has heard of it? Sounds like a pretty crappy business model to me.

    3. Re:Bad info in article. by arth1 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Actually, eMusic does have a $6 per month plan, covering 0-10 songs per month (i.e. averaging at $1.20 per song, or $.60 if and only if you make sure you always download exactly 10 songs in any given billing period.
      Of course, even getting to see their plans without signing up is deliberately made difficult, but if you follow the links around from their legalese pages, you find a well buried link to the plans.

      I have had no luck in finding out what quality the tracks are ripped with, or what software was used to rip them. Nor any other technical details.

    4. Re:Bad info in article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Epic fail. For those who can't find it.

      Seeing as how that's probably the most important thing anybody would want to do before signing up, seems pretty silly to hide it in such a non-obvious place.

    5. Re:Bad info in article. by PMBjornerud · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It is actually possible to brose their selection without giving them your credit card number:
      http://www.emusic.com/browse/all.html

      So even slashdotters are uanble to use their site successfully... It took me way too long to figure out that URL. Tried a few approaches, but every single one of them seemes to slam a huge ad and trying to make me write my credit card number to get something "for free".

      Frankly, what the hell is their design goal? "Impersonate a scam site"? If I had dropped in there by chance, every single red flag I have would trigger: "SCAM! SCAM! Don't fall for this! Get out! Close the browser, scan for spyware. Phew. I'm safe again."

      This is exactly the kind of site I warn my family about and tell them they should never, ever hand even their email to. Kinda sucks when you're a legit site... I'm sure they could have a huge boost in subscribers by changing their fron page to something just a little bit less scammy-looking.

      Agree with parent on all points. I have been considering to purchase music from them several times, but everytime I visit their site, I just end up thinking "why bother? this site sucks" and postphone it another 3 months.

      --
      I lost my sig.
  3. Summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative
    For those too lazy to RTFA, here's the verdict:

    Not Too Shabby -- Amazon MP3 is the first online music store that hasn't left me cold. Its advantages are very real:

            * No DRM. No consumer likes DRM, and although Apple hasn't yet released any statistics on how the DRM-free tracks from EMI have sold in comparison with the DRM-encumbered versions of the same tracks, Amazon has done the right thing by eliminating it across the board. Hopefully Amazon's move will give Apple some leverage with the music labels to make more DRM-free tracks available.

            * iPod compatibility. Thanks to the lack of DRM, and in particular, Windows-specific DRM, songs purchased from Amazon MP3 will play on an iPod, something that has never been true for a mainstream online music retailer (other than Apple) before.

            * Low prices. I don't have a sense for how price-conscious the online music market really is, but with many tracks priced below even the cost of Apple's DRM-encumbered tracks, and albums priced even lower, I could see budget-driven consumers or those who buy a lot of music preferring to purchase from Amazon MP3 over the iTunes Store.

            * 1-Click shopping. People do not like creating new accounts for shopping, but there's no question that some people shop from Amazon over other venues purely because it's such a known quantity after years of easy ordering. Ordering via Amazon MP3 isn't as easy as from the iTunes Store, but it's not far off.
    1. Re:Summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Amazon MP3:
      * no DRM
      * money eventually goes to fund the RIAA

      iTMS:
      * DRM
      * money eventually goes to fund the RIAA

      Until the RIAA stops suing grandmothers and interrogating 8-years-old children, neither looks like a good option.

  4. Re:I'd rather go Amazon by fangorious · · Score: 3, Informative

    When will people get a fucking clue that the MP4 files that iTunes sells are not an Apple proprietary format? It's the codec developed to replace MP3. It was developed by the same freaking people who developed MP3. You know you can buy songs without DRM from iTunes? Thirty cent price jump for 256 kpbs MP4 (theoretically superior quality to 256 kbps MP3) with no DRM for individual tracks. No price jump if you buy the whole album. And reportedly Amazon's terms of service don't allow re-downloading of transfer of ownership.

  5. iTunes Plus DRM free... by SuperKendall · · Score: 3, Interesting

    iTunes Plus is DRM free. However, it's unknown how many titles actually are offering using it (only EMI still and not all those titles) and the price is a little higher. The quality of a 256k AAC encode vs. a 256k MP# Amazon encode may be somewhat different, but at those bitrates it's probably basically indistinguishable.

    Sometimes though buying it from the iTunes store is simply more convenient... but I sure wish they'd hurry and expand iTunes Plus.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  6. Re:I'd rather go Amazon by lawrenlives · · Score: 3, Funny

    Whatever, I ain't payin 30 cents more for tracks that don't even have DRM. That's whack.

    --
    Frankly, I prefer the company of nitwits.
  7. profit margin by goombah99 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They're so close to getting it right though; why not, when you order the CD from Amazon, allow you to download the MP3 while you're waiting for the 'couple of days' shipping? Wow. That's a killer idea. I hope they steal it.

    The problem with that, and maybe with the whole amazon gig is the profit margin issue. My impression, perhaps I'm wrong, was that apple was pocketing less than a dime a song for itunes music store. I suppose that varies a lot with the rate songs are sold since there are many fixed costs. If that dime a song margin is accurate then amazon must be running on fumes since they are underselling Apple. Presumably this is not too server lite either since I'm guessing the songs are watermarked with your ID and then MP3 compressed. So assuming amazon is not getting a better deal than apple it's hard to see how these low rates will last. Recall the record companies wanted apple to 1) share Ipod revenues with them and 2) raise prices on new releases. Given that I'd say either the record comapnies have decided to sell music for less (ha ha ha) or these are teaser rates. Does anyone think Amazon is giving them a cut of music player sales.... So it makes not sense for the record companies to move away from apple to accept even less (unless they were incredibly freakin' scared). So getting back to the CD shipping. That would mean even less profit perhaps or perhaps they could charge $1 for the instant album download option.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
    1. Re:profit margin by Temposs · · Score: 3, Interesting

      There's at least one Indie label doing something like this. They sell some vinyls as well as CDs. The problem with selling a vinyl is of course that you can't easily make a digital copy of it. Here's how they sell the music of Page France:

      http://www.suicidesqueeze.net/order.html

      "Page France
      and the Family Telephone CD/LP...

      CD Price: $12.00

      LP Price: $10.00 (Limited edition! Comes with a coupon for a free download of the entire album in MP3 format.)"

      So basically, you pay less for the vinyl and get to download MP3s as well. Pretty good deal there.

      --
      Knowledge is just opinion that you trust enough to act upon. -Orson Scott Card
    2. Re:profit margin by Wdomburg · · Score: 4, Informative

      The problem with that, and maybe with the whole amazon gig is the profit margin issue. My impression, perhaps I'm wrong, was that apple was pocketing less than a dime a song for itunes music store.

      Current estimates are about a dime, with "wholesale cost" (i.e. the label's cut) being about $0.70 for majors and $0.60-65 for independents.

      The rest of the cost is supposed to be comprosed of infrastructure, operational expenses, and transaction fees from the credit card companies. I'll eat my own shoes if Amazon's costs aren't lower. They're largely reusing a pre-existing retail infrastructure. And as a major retail operation, they doubtless have a ton of clout with the credit card companies (which are commonly cited as having the next biggest cut after the labels).

      Presumably this is not too server lite either since I'm guessing the songs are watermarked with your ID and then MP3 compressed.

      Nope. The songs are being provided encoded by the labels and the only watermarks identify the retailer, not the purchaser. Bandwidth would be the predominant cost here.

  8. Re:Amazon needs to add easy sorting by emc · · Score: 3, Funny

    "If I search for "Oasis", there's no easy to way to separate the albums titled that from the artist."

    Amazon would be doing you a favor if they returned results to another artist.

  9. Increases leverage of record companies, not Apple by calstraycat · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There is one area where the author misses the underlying strategic implications of the recording industry's willingness to sell DRM-free songs through amazon.

    " No DRM. No consumer likes DRM, and although Apple hasn't yet released any statistics on how the DRM-free tracks from EMI have sold in comparison with the DRM-encumbered versions of the same tracks, Amazon has done the right thing by eliminating it across the board. Hopefully Amazon's move will give Apple some leverage with the music labels to make more DRM-free tracks available."

    He's got it backwards. This deal gives the record companies a strategic advantage in its pricing battle with Apple. Allowing Amazon to sell DRM-free songs but variably-priced would be best interpreted as the record companies giving Steve Jobs the finger. Only one of the major record companies has allowed Apple to sell DRM-free songs and then only at a premium price.

    Of the battling parties, it is the record companies who have gained leverage with this move, not Apple. The message to Apple is clear: allow variable pricing and we'll let you sell DRM-free tracks. Keep insisting on fixed pricing and we'll only let you sell DRMed tracks.

  10. I'd like to try Amazon by Zonk+(troll) · · Score: 3, Informative

    However, they lock out Linux users. While I can apparently buy indivual songs, I can't buy an album without using their downloader which is Windows/OS X only. I don't feel like booting into OS X just to download some mp3s.

    For now I'll stick to eMusic and DownloadPunk (albums are downloaded as a zip).

    --
    "The Federal Reserve is a fraudulent system."--Lew Rockwell
    End The FED. -
    1. Re:I'd like to try Amazon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      They also lock out OS/2 users, VMS users and OS/400 users. And so does iTunes.

    2. Re:I'd like to try Amazon by jalefkowit · · Score: 5, Informative

      Oh come on now.

      1. They are working on a Linux version of the downloader as we speak.
      2. In the meantime, reports are that the Windows version of the downloader runs fine under Wine. And the only thing you need the downloader for is for full albums, Linux users can buy singles today straight from their browser, no downloader required.

      With this offering, Amazon has done more to make Linux a first-class citizen in the online music space than maybe any other company to date. That's hardly "lock[ing] out Linux users."

  11. !lossless = !buying by Dhraakellian · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Let me guess: You buy overpriced $100 gold tipped cables, don't you?
    Don't get me wrong. My ears probably don't care, really, and I'd be transcoding to Ogg Vorbis as soon as I got it.

    But I still don't want to be locked into a single lossy format forever, even if I was buying it in today's best codec.

    This is one reason I plan to start buying and burning off FLACs from Magnatune in the near future. Their full-length mp3 samples are fine for previewing/freeloading, but if I'm going to actually pay money for the music, I'd like the freedom to change to tomorrow's super-high-compression/quality format when it comes out. (Plus, supporting indie artists on labels with cool business models is nifty too...)
    --
    I've read Grocklaw. BoycottNovell, you're no Grocklaw
  12. Re:What About Album Artwork? by confused_demon · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Album artwork is encoded in the MP3 tracks themselves.

    AAC is not really open, but it's a standard and pushed by the same people that made MP3 (it's the audio part of mp4), so it is at least as open as mp3. For this particular comparison amazonmp3 sells non-DRMed music for about 40% less than itunes, so that is a better comparison. As far as I know OGG is the only really 'open' standard. I'm already being rated as a troll in an earlier post for implying that all music that itunes sold is tied to ipods and you're f***ed if you ever try to switch away from apple manufactured players. For joe-blow users I think that the added steps to make itunes music work on a non-itunes player are enough to effectively lock them into ipods forever.

    non-DRMed music was available before itunes existed. I think the first non-DRMed music I bought online was from TMBG in the late 90's or early OO's (before cable modems and DSL was commonly available), after their 'major' label dropped them. At the time downloading the music from the internet was being pushed as 'bring-your-own-CD,' and the bandwith requirements were huge and it took the better part of a day to download it. non-DRMed music continued to be around for indie music and smaller labels.

    With regard to Apple & the music labels...I think that Apple's executive management has many people in common with major branches of the entertainment industry, so it's very complex to try to say which are which. The issue of DRM is tied up in the disputes between Apple (which was rapidly becoming the only stylish way to sell musich) and the major labels.

  13. Re:Redundant? by Guppy06 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The point is they're trying to tag it "my piracy is still justified."

  14. Drive customers away from Apple... by shmlco · · Score: 3, Insightful

    No, the labels aren't scared, they're pissed off that Apple has the ability (and the gall) to stand up to them and tell them what to do.

    As such, I think you're missing an essential part of the strategy: The labels put MP3s on Amazon in an attempt to drive customers away from Apple, with the result that if enough people switch then Apple no longer has the clout to stand up to them. After that the next time the contracts are negotiated they raise the rates everywhere and require everyone to use whatever brand of DRM they see fit.

    Goodbye DRM-free iTunes. Goodbye DRM-free MP3s.

    As much as I like Amazon, I like Apple's stance on the subject more. I'm sticking with iTunes.

    --
    Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
    1. Re:Drive customers away from Apple... by Planesdragon · · Score: 4, Interesting

      After that the next time the contracts are negotiated they raise the rates everywhere and require everyone to use whatever brand of DRM they see fit. And when neither Amazon nor Apple play ball, they give up and come back. Quietly.

      Heck, in that sort of situation Amazon and Apple could probably sue "them" for antitrust violations.
    2. Re:Drive customers away from Apple... by RalphBNumbers · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yeah, don't buy from the outlet that sells exclusively DRM-free tracks encoded at a reasonable bit-rate with no embedded user information. Much better to buy from the one who offers a smaller selection of DRM-free tracks, charges a premium for them and embeds data about you in every track. They're the ones who are really standing up to the labels. And continuing to buy DRM laden tracks will send a clear message to the labels that consumers want DRM-free music.


      The grandparent never said to "buy DRM laden tracks", Mr. McStrawman. And you have only Amazon's word that the watermarks Amazon admit are in many of their tracks don't contain personally identifying information; whereas with Apple's watermark-free music you can trivially read or remove any information in the tags.

      I think grandparent is wrong about the labels being able to take back the DRM-freeness (DRM will remain dead for the same reason it is dying now: the iPod), but I do expect them to raise prices, as the grandparent suggests. By allowing variable pricing, Amazon has made themselves much more vulnerable to gradually increasing prices (both by the labels and by themselves), when compared to Apple's fixed pricing.

      People taking the Amazon MP3 store as some sort of victory against Apple have things almost entirely backwards.
      Apple has just won the online music wars far more permanently than they could by simply owning ~80% of the market; the Amazon MP3 store is the Big labels' terms of surrender (well, 2 of them, Sony and Warner are still holding out). Those terms say the labels will let people sell cheap, convenient, DRM-free music that isn't locked down to only Microsoft-approved systems, and Apple will continue to make ludicrous amounts of money selling such systems.

      The only real downsides for Apple here are:
      1) This comes at a time when Apple is in the middle of trying to grab two new markets with the iPhone/iPod (video and mobile telephony), and you can tell from their product lineup's limitations that they're already having a lot of trouble getting the kind of decent terms that allowed the iPod&iTunes combo to work so well for music. Anything that the movie/TV/mobile-network companies can interpret as a sign of Apple's weakness (real of imagined) is going to somewhat undermine Apple's ability to do for other industries what they did for music.
      And
      2) Universal has basically said that, at least for the next several months, they will sell DRM-free music to anyone but Apple. Basically they've decided that a free market where consumers can pick the store they like is too dangerous, so they're going to use their monopoly on certain music to artificially undermine their most popular distributor rather than just selling DRM-free music to anyone who will pay and letting the market decide. This is probably a temporary situation imho, as Universal can't throw away income from their largest online distributor forever, and it really doesn't do Apple much harm since they make their real money on iPods anyway and Amazon MP3 works just fine there, but this kind of discriminatory sales policy sets an ugly precedent.
      --
      "The worst tyrannies were the ones where a governance required its own logic on every embedded node." - Vernor Vinge
  15. Re:Redundant? by BungaDunga · · Score: 3, Informative

    And, FLAC doesn't play in mp3 players like iPod etc. Does if you run Rockbox. Granted, that's a small minority of users.
  16. Amazon MP3 made my Mac snappier! by Zhe+Mappel · · Score: 4, Funny
    People are always asking me, "Professor MacSnappy, why do you buy your music from iTMS?"

    No one reason, I reply stroking the Van Dyke beard that looks so rakish with a black turtleneck (it has fully grown back in since that regrettable incident with the calipers, thank you for asking).

    For a full analysis of my shopping habits, perhaps it is better if I quote from my ten part, 3,400-word blog post on the subject, which can be found carefully archived at my site, DaringTurdball.com.

    "When I see a new car ad on TV and just have to 'run out' and buy the music playing in the background, there are few things I like to put in order first. You might call them 'ducks,' and say I am getting them 'in a row'--but just make sure it's a digital row, and that the ducks are all downsampled audio recordings. Ha, ha--or should I say, Quack quack!"

    "One, I don't want too high a bitrate. High bitrates are known to use up A.R.S.E. (Auditory Response Synchronization Energy), a finite resource found in the resonant bones that frame the auditory canal. In layman's terms, higher bitrates wear out ears faster. You only have so much A.R.S.E. Why splurge?"

    "Second, I take the 'fidelity' in high fidelity seriously. That's why I want to lock down my music as securely as a 13th century feudal lord securing his wife's genitals before he rides off to the Crusades. Doing so requires strong DRM so that my musical 'honey pots' don't end up getting 'stirred' by any other portable music players. I like knowing my songs are safe and won't be getting roughly used by a Zune on the side."

    "Third, like most Americans, I don't want to pay too little. Everyone knows there's a direct relationship between price and quality. I like knowing my song has received that extra special touch of attention, even if it's just someone leaving on a light for it at Apple. Who knows? Maybe while it was waiting to be downloaded, The Steve walked by and gave it the old 'thumbs up' or even a 'peace sign'!"

    "Adequately priced low-bitrate songs belted down with high-quality DRM so that they won't fall out of my iPod: yes, it's what I call a musical 'match made in heaven'--thank you, iTMS!"

  17. Re:Amazon fails the random song comparison test by Splab · · Score: 3, Funny

    I have been looking at all the stores and they fail with most of the music I want, but then again so does the walk-in stores, even allofmp3 doesn't carry the stuff I'm looking for.

    (Norwegian eurodance circa 1995-2005 is impossible to get)

  18. EMusic has lots of promise, but fails currently by spagetti_code · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Sadly emusic is a long way from an ideal mp3 service. I'm a member, and here is my feedback:
    • There is a limit choice. Dont expect to find hot new albums there. So far all my searches for artists I listen to regularly has been fruitless. On the plus side, I have downloaded artists I wouldn't have looked at before.
    • Music is 128kbps bitrate. They're basically delivering the absolute minimum quality that I, and many others, consider usable (yes, I know that's going to be very subjective - but all my music encoded from my CDs is at 256 or 320 - space isn't an issue so why not encode as high as possible).
    • I'm on the 30 songs per month for $10. Which sounds good at 33c each. However, I like to buy albums, which is extremely awkward as you have to carefully spread them across months and keep track of what you have got so far.
    • If you dont download 30 per month (or accidently skip a month when you are on the road, as I did) then the 33c per song jumps quickly.
    • The option to listen to a snippet of a song is lame. Deliver the whole song, or a good part of it. Not just 20 or so seconds. Sometimes I have listened to a snippet and not even got to the words.

    There are some pluses - such as there being a downloader for linux (java based), the website being clean and simple to use, and the id3 tags being clean (artist, album, year, genre, BUT no cover).


    Personally I think they should make a minor change to their business model. I pay $10 for 30 songs per month. Instead of limiting me to 30 songs, if I go over 30, immediately start another "month" (another 30 songs, another $10). That is, I can download as much as I like, and its about 33c each for each block of 30. With a min of $10 per month. If I commit to one of their higher plans, I can buy songs at a cheaper rate.


    That would dramatically increase revenue as I am sure a lot of people like to buy albums, but keep hitting the 30 songs per month limit. They'd cycle "months" much more quickly. However it could reduce profit as people are less likely to fail to download their limit (Think: their best result is when I download nothing in a month).



    Anyway, just my $0.02c worth.