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Congressman Tells Comcast, Hands Off BitTorrent

An anonymous reader writes "Just a few months back, the Net Neutrality debate was all but dead. Luckily for fans of a free Internet, the telcos are their own worst enemies. Recent stories involving Verizon Wireless blocking pro-choice groups, AT&T censoring Pearl Jam's anti-war comments from a streaming concert, and most recently, Comcast finally admitting to using anti-BitTorrent filters. The Net Neutrality debate would appear to be alive and kicking, with Congressman Rick Boucher (D-VA) being the first politician to make a public statement sharply criticizing Comcast's actions."

67 of 304 comments (clear)

  1. Comcast Tesll Congressman: We Own Your Colleagues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Comcast Tesll Congressman: We Own Your Colleagues

    Comcast has politely reminded this wayward congressman that in America laws are paid for by bribes. Comcast then offered the congressman a "campaign contribution", silencing his dissent. The system works.

  2. Great start by martin_henry · · Score: 5, Funny

    As a Comcast customer in Virginia, I am glad that Congressman Boucher is taking a stand for net neutrality. Mostly because I need to get my share ratio back up.

    --
    www.purevolume.com/martyd
    1. Re:Great start by TheRequiem13 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Hopefully not on OiNK. :/

      --
      What?
    2. Re:Great start by jagdish · · Score: 2

      I agree, there are a lot of Linux ISO's out there that need to be seeded.

    3. Re:Great start by spottedkangaroo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Ubuntu needs to get bit torrent (or any other distributed p2p sharing actually) for things like the update manager and apt-get . It may already do it, I don't really know for sure, but I doubt it. Personally I'd throw 500KB/s at it if it were possible to do so. I sit on a bunch of distro .isos at that rate from work and my boss is cool with it. Anyway, when I excitedly upgraded ubuntu to 7.10 on my laptop last friday, it took some 6 hours to download everything and it seemed a little silly since there's plenty of people like me that would willingly share some spare upstream.

      --
      Imagine if you weren't allowed to use roads because a bus company complained about your driving 3 times. --skunkpussy
    4. Re:Great start by compro01 · · Score: 4, Informative

      you can get debtorrent for that i believe.

      --
      upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
    5. Re:Great start by Firehed · · Score: 2, Funny

      Only within your own home. You still have legs, I expect. And if that's not the case, you REALLY should have read the fine print before signing that Comcast contract.

      --
      How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
  3. Comcast seems to be fast by Technician · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Am I the first to notice that Comcast may have removed the filter? Last night I started the Ubuntu Gutsy Gibbon DVD download. I thought it would be done this morning, but I noticed the network switch still blinking like crazy. I logged in and checked the status. The download is done. I checked the upload status...

    1286 K uploaded at a rate of 20KB/s. This is the first time in weeks I have seen upload speeds better than 0.0 KB/s and a transfered size larger than 0.1 KB. Since I am finally able to help spread Ubuntu, I'll let it run all day. Maybe I'll be able to upload more than I download for a change. Seeing any upload traffic after a completed download is highly unusual on Comcast lately.

    --
    The truth shall set you free!
    1. Re:Comcast seems to be fast by Conspiracy_Of_Doves · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yes, we'll all pretend that's what you were really downloading. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more.

    2. Re:Comcast seems to be fast by guaigean · · Score: 3, Funny

      *Whoooosh*

      --
      Microsoft Sucks, F/OSS Rocks. I get mod points now right?
    3. Re:Comcast seems to be fast by budgenator · · Score: 4, Funny

      I'm a comcast customer and have never used bittorrent until comcast started this BS; now I running BT out of spite.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    4. Re:Comcast seems to be fast by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 3, Funny

      Cut and paste... /tmp/gutsy-wrestling-babes-dvd-i386.iso.torrent /home/-------/Ubuntu/gutsy-dvd-i386.iso
      4336.0 of 4336.0 MB at 63.49 KB/s
      16 hours, 59 minutes, and 51 seconds

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
  4. Sigh by bucky0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Guys, if we want to win the argument on Net Neutrality, we can't keep confusing QOS with NN. If they want to indescriminantly block bittorrent, that's QOS. Saying that QOS runs afoul of NN means that later Comcast can say, "Look, if you enforce net neutrality, we won't be able to do QOS on our networks which means that internet tv will be bogged down"

    NN is preferential shaping based on the source of the data. QOS is preferential shaping based on the type of data.

    --

    -Bucky
    1. Re:Sigh by mikael_j · · Score: 4, Informative

      Completely blocking an entire protocol isn't QoS, Qos is about giving priority to certain types of traffic that need lower latency or more bandwidth, an example would be VoIP which needs low latency to not become useless.

      What Comcast has been doing is outright blocking an entire protocol, sort of like how some ISPs block their users' ability to use SMTP, mostly outbound but in some cases inbound as well. The difference being that there is a good reason to block outbound SMTP, it may be a PITA for those trying to run their own mail server but at least the reason isn't so much direct greed as it is to protect the network at large from zombie machines trying to spam the rest of the net...

      /Mikael

      --
      Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
    2. Re:Sigh by Paradigm_Complex · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There's definately some blurring between the two. There's a problem if I payed for my internets and don't use internet TV or phone or the like, so my bandwidth is shot because my interests are considered less important. If Internet TV or Internet Phone or whatnot require X amount of bandwidth, have people pay for that much bandwidth, don't suck it out from other paying customers. QOS is a subset of NN - so yes, QOS will take a blow if NN is enforced. As it should be. My bits are just as important as the next guy.

      --
      "A witty saying proves nothing." - Voltaire
    3. Re:Sigh by compro01 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      fine if they re-prioritise (VOIP/games before bitrorrent/FTP) and traffic shape (websites/IPTV/etc. work normal, BT runs slower) stuff when necessary (peak hours), but when they're sabotaging a protocol all the time for no good reason, that ticks me off and shouldn't be allowed.

      my personal idea of NN is "don't shape by origin/destination ever, shape by traffic only when absolutely necessary".

      --
      upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
    4. Re:Sigh by xigxag · · Score: 2, Insightful

      NN is preferential shaping based on the source of the data. QOS is preferential shaping based on the type of data.

      That's a nice soundbite but it's an oversimplfication.

      If I'm using up the majority of the bandwidth on my block downloading files, and Comcast decides to throttle me, they're doing QoS, even if they're just totally throttling my speed without regard to the type of data.

      They also are doing QoS if they throttle my uploads, although it's preferentiial shaping based on the source of the data, namely, my house.

      And one could imagine that Comcast could decide they're going to allow one form of P2P, their own (imaginary) protocol "crapcast," patented, and end-to-end encrypted. For which, of course, you'd have to pay a monthly surcharge and 3rd party providers would need to obtain licenses at exorbitant rates. Every other form of p2p they would block, based upon type of data. Even so, that would be NN.

      --
      There are two kinds of people: 1) those who start arrays with one and 1) those who start them with zero.
    5. Re:Sigh by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 2, Informative

      Comcast's treatment of goes even farther though, they simply terminate the stream. It's one thing to have it slow down or lower priority than other services, but halting or ending transfers is a different matter.

    6. Re:Sigh by Alistar · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you are fine with them blocking SMTP to protect their network from zombie machines running large, why is it wrong for them to block bitTorrent to prevent their network from grinding to a halt. (Arguements of "unlimited" internet aside)

      Both have legitimate and devious uses.

    7. Re:Sigh by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Actually, they're not blocking an entire protocol.

      They're actively resetting ANY TCP connection that involves uploading significant amounts of data for more than a few seconds.

      There have been numerous reports of this killing Lotus Domino connections too, and I wouldn't be surprised if I found lots of complaints on the SmugMug forums about people being unable to upload pictures if they were on Comcast. (Same traffic patterns - lots of upload for a while.)

      Still, anything that involves resetting/blocking connections is not QoS. I don't think people would care if BT were the "bottom of the barrel" and was superseded by any other traffic type - it would still be wicked fast at 3 AM. The problem here is that Comcast is actively killing connections regardless of what the actual status of the rest of the network is, instead of taking advantage of TCP's built in congestion control mechanisms to slow things down.

      I worry that if done wrong, legislation will be passed that even forbids QoS, which will make things really bad for both users and ISPs. The legislation would have to have wording that QoS is OK as long as the "bottom of the barrel" protocols are able to use full bandwidth when no one else is using the network.

      --
      retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
    8. Re:Sigh by evilviper · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If they want to indescriminantly block bittorrent, that's QOS.

      Not unless they're equally blocking ALL other P2P protocols, including those used by major companies...

      What if they were blocking SIP (Vonage, et al.), but giving a high priority to their own company's proprietary, non-SIP, VoIP protocol? Gee, if you'd just license the technology from them, you too can get high-priority on your traffic...
      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    9. Re:Sigh by bkr1_2k · · Score: 5, Funny

      "My bits are just as important as the next guy."

      Yes but your bits aren't as large as the next guy's so you'll have to compensate with a cool car.

      --
      "Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
    10. Re:Sigh by dgatwood · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The ironic thing is that this is more likely to hurt people who download files by FTP or HTTP than BitTorrent. It should not be hard at all to tune BitTorrent use a larger number of shorter-lived connections. Of course, doing so would basically bring down Comcast's network pretty hard, as it would increase the overhead of BitTorrent traffic fairly dramatically.... I wonder if they've thought about what they are likely to create by doing this....

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    11. Re:Sigh by CoreDump01 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Because blocking / restricting SMTP and throttling / blocking virus infected clients is actually a good thing and a service to the internet community.

      Filtering (or throttling into uselessness) a protocol to lower the overall bandwidth consumption is only done because the ISP in question oversold their pipes too much and is not investing enough money into upgrading and maintaining their networks.

      It is done to cover up greed and is an anti-service to their customers and the internet at large.

      Leaving this criminal "Unlimited" bullshit completely aside of course.

    12. Re:Sigh by Dash+Hash · · Score: 5, Interesting

      If Comcast were only throttling BitTorrent traffic, I would not have so much an issue with it (so long as the throttled speeds were decent enough to serve ISOs and WoW updates).

      Unfortunately, it is not about throttling, it is about killing entirely. When every attempt to connect is killed, you are not delaying traffic, you are stopping it entirely. But that is only one issue on the table with Comcast and its anti-BitTorrent activities, and quite frankly, it is a minor issue compared to the other.

      More important to me, and hopefully to everybody else, is that Comcast is killing BitTorrent traffic by spoofing the users, and not always its own users. They are pretending to be their customers and the people they connect with, whether or not the people they are connected with are Comcast customers, to send the reset packets.

      I don't know about you, but quite frankly, having /any/ company masquerade as its users is frightening.
      With a massive company such as Comcast faking its identity, it is out-and-out mortifying.

      Throttling would be one thing. Killing by falsifying oneself as the customers they represent is another entirely.

      --
      Calling a sword by a pretty name is no more than adding perfume to poison.
    13. Re:Sigh by Burz · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Pardon me, but killing bittorrent transfers by falsifying user-protocol commands is not "prioritizing". FWIW, Comcast does indeed throttle upstream traffic for FTP, SSL and others well below their advertised speeds... but the stink isn't even about that, it's about a very high level of interference in user-generated content.

    14. Re:Sigh by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I fully agree. There are plenty of workaround approaches to Comcast's brain-deadedness, many of which will result in increased pain for Comcast in the long run.

      For example, the easiest workaround would be to use a custom transport mechanism layered over UDP which includes authentication for connection management (i.e. there's no way to spoof the equivalent of a TCP RST.) The problem is that a LOT of research has gone into TCP congestion control algorithms in the past two decades, and the initial implementation of any custom congestion control scheme will likely be FAR less "fair" than TCP is.

      Unfortunately, most current secure transport schemes were only designed to protect data from eavesdropping, not to protect against denial of service attacks against the connection. For example, SSL and TLS both need to be layered above a reliable transport layer (usually TCP), and it is TCP itself that Comcast is attacking.

      --
      retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
    15. Re:Sigh by StopKoolaidPoliticsT · · Score: 2, Informative

      Because blocking / restricting SMTP and throttling / blocking virus infected clients is actually a good thing and a service to the internet community. The Storm worm uses P2P (edonkey IIRC) for command and control. Using your logic, if you're willing to block/restrict/throttle SMTP because of spam and virus infested clients, should they not also block/restrict/throttle P2P to prevent the same thing?

      Filtering (or throttling into uselessness) a protocol to lower the overall bandwidth consumption is only done because the ISP in question oversold their pipes too much and is not investing enough money into upgrading and maintaining their networks. DOCSIS is a shared service. You can only saturate so much bandwidth onto a line at once. Your 10 Mbit (or whatever) connection is for peak service, not constant throughput. DOCSIS 2.0 supports 38 Mbit per second per channel on the download side (27 up). If you want your full 10 Mbit all the time, you can have, at most, 4 users per channel (and an T3 for every 4 users). There are a total of 52 channels, so you can support 208 users with no digital tv available or you can buy lots of head end equipment to keep that many users on a handful of channels. Ok... so 4 users probably won't be using the service all the time. Lots of people just want a burst rate to get a web page or maybe a PDF. So, what's the right number of users per channel? Is 20 people per channel good? They can each get about 2Mbit per second if they're all using it at the same time. Of course, if the pipe is saturated in either direction, latency is going to suck for applications like VOIP. So, obviously you're going to want to prioritize certain traffic. Similarly, you're going to want what people use interactively to have good throughput (ie, websites). At the bottom of the list is the traffic that isn't latency dependent, has nobody sitting there waiting to use it and that consumes the most bandwidth in relation to every other user on the network. You might be able to put 100 people who generally just browse the web and read email on one channel. Put 8 P2P users on their own channel and they'll all complain. 2 or 3 frequent P2P users might wreck the experience of the other 50 people on the same channel. So, where is the happy medium? Isn't that the question. Exactly where is "oversold their pipes?"

      You can always price out a T2 instead of complaining about your cable service so you don't have an oversold pipe. Of course, you don't want to pay full price for the level of service that you want, you expect all those web surfing dolts to subsidize you.

      Lest you think I'm just some cable apologizer, I don't like the advertising either. When I first got my cable modem, the advertising was "up to 10 Mbit/s" while the modems were capped at 2Mbit/s. It took 6 or 7 years to finally get the level of service I was sold. I just think you're being hypocritical for bitching they should block one service while leaving your pet service unthrottled and then complaining you aren't getting your money's worth when your monthly payment only covers a fraction of the cost of the full bandwidth you want.
      --
      Stop Koolaid Politics
  5. Too late for Comcast by Space+cowboy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    At least, from my perspective. I'm not a huge user of P2P, my ire is more directed at the violation of the principles that founded this 'internets' thing. If we let company-interests direct the future development of the internet, we may as well give up now.

    What *did* annoy me, after the decision was taken, was that my difficulties with ichat over the last few months seem to be similarly down to Comcast policies.

    I use iChat a lot to keep in touch with my family (all of whom have Macs, and 4-way video-conferencing can be pretty cool). There's several thousand miles between us, so this is one of the few ways we can actually see each other without major travel.

    Until a few months ago, it all worked great. Now, I get less than a minute of great picture, and then everything breaks up. I was putting it down to transatlantic bandwidth issues, but then I tried it from work, and (lo and behold) had no problems whatsoever.

    I pay (not for long, now though, the T1 arrives in 2 weeks) for the most bandwidth Comcast offer, and I cannot believe I average even 1% of that bandwidth. To have them limit me when I *do* want to use it, as a deliberate *general* policy of theirs, is infuriating. All I can do is cancel the service, and hope others do too. Eventually, hopefully, they'll get the message. Not everyone can cancel due to the monopoly they hold in some areas, but perhaps enough can to make a difference.

    Now a T1 used to be a lot of bandwidth, but it's not so much any more (1.5Mbit/sec is pretty poor by advertised-bandwidth standards). I'm willing to trade off the small time-periods I actually can use that advertised bandwidth for the reliability of always having the smaller amount - it may not work for everyone, but it works for me :)

    And so, Comcast lose another ~$200/month. Hopefully part of a trend, because won't anyone think of the network ? [grin]

    Simon.

    --
    Physicists get Hadrons!
    1. Re:Too late for Comcast by murrdpirate · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The monopoly is what irritates me. If someone set up their own ISP without the government, I think they're free to do whatever they want with it. But if we're giving them a monopoly, I think we have some say in the service.

    2. Re:Too late for Comcast by Seumas · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The problem is that broadband providers really do have a monopoly. In any given area, you have dial-up (56k), a single cable (8mbps) provider or a single DSL (768kbps to 7mbps) providers. While every city varies, you can usually get dial-up in 100% of the area, cable in perhaps 70% of the area . . . but DSL in only a small percentage of the area. At least if you want speeds that are even remotely comparable. If you don't live down the street from the local CO, you are going to get speeds that are difficult to tolerate. And of course, phone companies have bandwidth and usage concerns, too. They aren't selling you a dedicated service anymore than Comcast or Cox or Shaw is.

      What really annoys me is that my tax dollars are used to provide these "utilities" with a limited sanctioned monopoly for the supposed public good, yet they don't offer services that address the whole public. If you really only intend your $65/mo service to be for grandmothers who use the account for email and checking up on their local church and the occasional amazon service, then offer a more expensive account for people who want heavy use and connect to work via VPN, back stuff up to remote servers, connect to colo hosted systems, use bit-torrent, watch lots of streaming videos, etc.

      And for people who want to know "how in the hell do you use so much bandwidth?! 30gb should be more than enough!". Well, just downloading a few popular podcasts will do it. Especially now that they're HD quality. Diggnation, Crankygeeks, DL.TV, Totally Rad Show and a couple others downloaded every week at an average of almost 500mb each comes out to about 12gb per month right there. And that's if you aren't acquiring them via bit torrent where you'd have some overhead as well as at least 6gb to 12gb in upward bandwidth. So right there, you're at 24gb. Just to keep up with half a dozen weekly podcasts.

      Throw in a couple people at your address listening to a lot of streaming radio. Watching streaming movies and news. Downloading five to ten gigs of demos on Xbox Live and Play Station Network. Perhaps connecting to your office with VPN and VNC to use your desktop. That's quite a lot of bandwidth. For completely legitimate purposes. And we haven't even touched things like using remote backup services that you can find online or downloading linux ISOs or the other streaming services like Vongo, Netflix and Amazon Unboxed.

    3. Re:Too late for Comcast by Myopic · · Score: 2, Insightful

      All I can do is cancel the service, and hope others do too.

      That's the most likely thing to do, and a very appropriate consumer-level response. If all consumers would take that simple step, then we would even need alternative measures. But since most people are willing to shut up and deal with crappy service and marketing lies, we do have other possible reprisals. For you, you might consider a lawsuit, especially one in small claims court, where (if I understand correctly) you would argue with a regular human instead of a lawyer. Sue for the maximum allowed in small claims court and see what happens.

      Or, screw it, just cancel the service and fire off a nasty letter to the company. Also, post to online forums for Comcast service, hopefully convincing other people never to become customers in the first place.

  6. Re:Nice glasses by brandor · · Score: 5, Informative

    Congressman Boucher rocks. He actually does a great job of getting things done for everyone. It doesn't hurt that he is all about technology either. He's probably the main force driving broadband adoption in Southwest Virginia (my home). Some the most recent things he's helped get accomplished are a major fiber optic pipe to Lebanon, VA (it's slowly making it's way to my small town), that pipe has convinced at least two global companies to set up shop in Southwest VA. Northrop Grumman being one and CGI-AMS being the other. He does such a great job and is liked so much that I don't think he has even had anyone oppose him in the election for the past several years. And if someone has opposed him, he won by such a margin that they might as well have not shown up. (This is me talking, I'm too lazy to look up any stats, so what I just said could be completely wrong. But, he rocks so much, it doesn't matter. Watch out Chuck Norris?)

  7. Isn't it strange... by teutonic_leech · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ... that we actually cheer when a politician we put into office for once stands up and protects our [fill in civic right of your choice]? I mean, when did things go so bad? (rhetorical question) It's sad that we all have gotten used to a status quo where our elected leaders work hand in hand with big business and constantly screw us over. I don't care what political affiliation you have - just take a step back and look what's going on in our country. I do feel very strongly about net neutrality but must also concede that it might be the least of our problem right now. Nevertheless, it is one of thousands of important issues that needs to be addressed and coming next election day we all should do our part and 'kick the bums out' (not my quote - start hearing that very frequently on Hardball recently). Anyway, sorry for the rant, but I'm trying to make a point here, which is that we need to take a step back and rebuilt our democracy - it's ridiculous that we continue to desperately grasp for a few breadcrumbs from an administration that's blatantly in bed with big business.

    1. Re:Isn't it strange... by east+coast · · Score: 2, Interesting

      it's ridiculous that we continue to desperately grasp for a few breadcrumbs from an administration that's blatantly in bed with big business.

      I think you need to put your political affiliations aside if you simply want to point the finger at this administration as far as their track record on rights.

      Sure, it's worse now than it has been in the memorable past but it seems that with each new administration, regardless if they be the jackass or the elephant, sells their candidates on bringing new change about instead of peeling back the layers of crap that the former administrations have done.

      My question to the Democrats: Even if you get someone in the Whitehouse during the next election what are you going to do if they don't start repealing all of the crap that's gone on in the past 6+ years? Are you going to keep drinking the kool-aid?

      The American political system simply does not have enough competition in it to provide real changes. Especially the changes we keep hearing people talk about on here.

      I'd rather see a government that is hampered with infighting instead of one side of the fence simply pushing on the other just because they can.

      The current political situation we find ourselves in goes back a long way. The big two parties are enjoying every minute of it regardless of wins and losses since you suckers keep coming back and buying more. The boycott of both parties by voting third party is the only way to send a clear message.

      --
      Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
    2. Re:Isn't it strange... by jollyreaper · · Score: 2, Funny

      ... that we actually cheer when a politician we put into office for once stands up and protects our [fill in civic right of your choice]? I mean, when did things go so bad? (rhetorical question) It's sad that we all have gotten used to a status quo where our elected leaders work hand in hand with big business and constantly screw us over. Yeah, it really is sad that every new change has to be met with "Ok, so how are you fucking me now?" It really is a surprise when the answer is "No screwing, this is actually a good thing."
      --
      Kwisatz Haderach
      Sell the spice to CHOAM
      This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
    3. Re:Isn't it strange... by DCTooTall · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You know what I find kind of amusing about this whole issue with Comcast and Net neutrallity, and the current Political system?

      In many ways when it comes to the Comcast issue, people seem to be falling primarily into 2 main camps. Both are saying what they are doing is wrong, But some are saying "We need Gov'ment for force them to be net neutral." Others are saying "If you don't like it, Let your money do the walking, and go with another ISP."

      The funny thing is, that MOST people tend to agree that the current state of the broadband ISP landscape in the US is in sad shape. You basically have 2 options. The Telco or the Cable company. Sure, in some areas, you may be lucky and have a viable 3rd option.... But that is few and far between. It is usually THIS simple fact that we are in a Duo-poly situation that causes most people to say the Gov'ment needs to step in.

      What I'm wondering, is do these people that are saying that the fact there are only 2 viable options in Internet providers and therefor the Gov'ment needs to fix the situation even realize, For even a second....That basically our current Political landscape is pretty much in the EXACT same situation? For most of the country, you have 2 options....The Democrats or the Republicans. IF you are lucky, you may have a viable 3rd option, but that is few and far between.

      They say that because the Cable Company and the Telco basically only have each other to compete against, and we as a consumer are forced to use one of them, That we can't trust them to change the situation. But the way I see it, we have the EXACT same issue with our political system. We have 2 main parties that basically are only competing among each other, and since we, the citizen, are forced to use them...

      So the question now becomes..... When it comes to the Net Neutrallity, what needs to be fixed first? The way the political system works? (Support politics! Buy a politician!) Or the way the ISP's work?

      Even more important.... If Comcast's actions in this situation can get so many people fired up like this (even those who are normally could care less about tech issues that the /. crowd is more likely to pay attention too)..... What is it going to take for people to get the same reaction towards the current Political system?


      Ok.... kinda offtopic.... sorry.

  8. KISS by bendodge · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I am personally against the current form of net neutrality. I think that government intervention is almost always bad. The ONLY regulations that should be passed:

    1. All common carriers must allow other providers to connect to them on a naked pipe
    2. All providers must support standard protocols.*
    3. Providers may only prioritize data/bandwidth based on protocol, not orgin/destination.
    5. No data/bandwidth throttling, only prioritization.

    *I'd leave defining "standard" up to ICAAN, with these additional rules:
    1. The protocol must be open - anyone can see how it works and get specs for it.
    2. Usage or modification of the protocol must not be restricted by patents or copyright.

    --
    The government can't save you.
    1. Re:KISS by nuzak · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > 1. All common carriers must allow other providers to connect to them on a naked pipe

      You do realize that ISPs are not common carriers, right?

      > 2. All providers must support standard protocols.*

      Great, I guess the IETF can disband, since it's now the US congress that really vets standards.

      > 3. Providers may only prioritize data/bandwidth based on protocol, not orgin/destination.

      So the head end video distributor node can't pre-empt your xbox's background downloads? I'm afraid the reality is more complicated.

      > 5. No data/bandwidth throttling, only prioritization.

      Guess how QoS actually works?

      --
      Done with slashdot, done with nerds, getting a life.
    2. Re:KISS by KlomDark · · Score: 2, Funny

      6. Profit!!!

    3. Re:KISS by stinerman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well Net Neutrality has the right goals but goes about it in the wrong way. Instead of trying to control what the monopolies do, we should attempt to foster competition so that the user can choose which ISP they want. Enough competition will eliminate stunts like what Comcast is pulling. Government intervention is required in either case since we are in oligopoly territory right now. I like the one that will offer more choices down the road.

  9. Thankfully.... by Jaysyn · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ... the big ISPs are so short-sighted that they are their own worst enemies when it comes to things like this.

    --
    There is a war going on for your mind.
  10. Simple soulation by Anon-Admin · · Score: 5, Interesting

    There is a simple solution,

    If Comcast, Verizon, AT&T or anyone else blocks any content for any reason, they are (from that point on) legally liable for all remaining content. This is because the have made an effort to control the content crossing there service and by default must agree that all remaining content is acceptable.

    Then remind there legal department that it means "If you keep it up, we will hold you responsible for all the remaining content including but not limited to all the child porn, child predators, etc."

    In other words, they have violated the common carrier clause and thus are not protected from prosecution!

    Where is a lawyer when you need one?

    1. Re:Simple soulation by Thaelon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Internet providers are not common carriers. In this case I wish they were.

      --

      Question everything

    2. Re:Simple soulation by mdmkolbe · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Internet providers are not common carriers. In this case I wish they were. I have seen that claim made multiple times. Could someone elaborate? Why aren't they common carriers? Why did people ever think they were? If they are not common carriers, are they liable for the data they transmit? If they are not liable, why? If they are liable, why haven't they all been sued/arrested into oblivion? Etc.
  11. Congrats to the Congressman by ronadams · · Score: 4, Insightful
    From TFA:

    Unfortunately for fans of Net neutrality, the congressman said he was not ready to go down this path and instead stressed market-based methods of fixing the problems.

    Thank God. There is an alarming trend among those who want to see a "neutral net" (a sentiment I agree with) to have "Dr. Government" fix it all. this is a slippery slope in plain sight; the idea of trusting the government to keep the net neutral doesn't appeal to me any more than having Comcast do it. What happens when the next elections come, and a new party/interest is in power? What happens when X lobby group petitions to sway the government's control of the network?

    Fortunately, we have this convenient mechanism called the free market, where an outcry of foul play means an increased demand for competition. I realize this doesn't mean overnight those in Comcast-only zones are given an alternative, but over time, it is possible.

    Now, when it comes to the infrastructure, the actual physical cables, etc., there's some room for talk as to whether the Government can have some limited intervention there, because we're dealing with interstate business and infrasturcture... but that's another story.

    --
    Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars.
    1. Re:Congrats to the Congressman by stinerman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You miss the point of those of us who are for government regulation. I'm willing to go with a totally free market where ISPs compete on service and price. The problem is that we need the government to step in and create a free market. Last mile connectivity is a natural monopoly (which is why you can't get POTS from anyone you want, nor can you get cable television service from anyone you want). The government should own all the pipes and allow anyone access to it at non-discriminatory rates. That is the only way you're going to have meaningful competition.

      This "hands off" talk assumes there is a free market already. There isn't, and the market will continue to devolve into an oligopoly until the government does something about it.

  12. Re:Nice glasses by je+ne+sais+quoi · · Score: 4, Informative

    Boucher was also one of the most vocal opponents of Clinton's impeachment, and has also been on record criticizing the excesses DMCA as well. He's one of the few congressmen that I'm actually glad is in in office.

    --
    Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is the war room!
  13. Charging more for users who use more bandwidth by javakah · · Score: 2, Insightful

    From the article, Congressman Boucher said that 'Comcast should "simply tier their offerings and engage in a pricing structure that allocates more bandwidth to those who pay more, and less to those who pay less."' Why the hell should I have to pay more for even more unlimited bandwidth? The issue is not just that Comcast is crippling bitTorrent, but that they are doing so to try to make their false advertising look legitimate.

  14. Re:Comcast Tesll Congressman: We Own Your Colleagu by Sunburnt · · Score: 4, Funny

    sadly, we live in a facist state.

    Indeed. We demand that our presidents' faces be "presidential," discriminating against those with "non-presidential" faces. Facial discrimination is the great unspoken tragedy that stalks this nation. Fight facism now!

    --
    Tags != Comments, and -1 (Troll) != -1 (I Would Respond Angrily To This Poster So They Must Be Trolling)
  15. Re:Comcast Tesll Congressman: We Own Your Colleagu by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I wish that weren't true.

    sadly, we live in a facist state. Fascism: A system of government that promotes extreme nationalism, repression, anticommunism, and is ruled by a dictator.

    And this is related to corporate purchasing of congressmen how, exactly?

  16. Tiers of Service.. bad? by rotide · · Score: 2, Insightful

    For those of you saying that a Tier based service system is "bad" because it will raise rates, look at it this way. Currently, you are NOT getting unlimited service, you are getting a soft capped service that is labeled as unlimited. The big issue is that you probably don't even know what that cap even is.

    Now a Tier based service may "cost more for unlimited" but it might actually BE unlimited.

    Simple Question: Would you pay $20 more a month for truely unlimited service of which you could even run servers off of, if you so choose?

    I would.

  17. Re:Comcast Tesll Congressman: We Own Your Colleagu by soliptic · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Fascism is sometimes defined as something more like what you might call Corporatism. In that sense the present day USA is very obviously and definitely fascist or fascist-leaning. Of course, this sense of the word is not the widely understood meaning, which is, as you say, totalitarian, dictatorial, agressively nationalist, etc.

  18. Re:Comcast Tesll Congressman: We Own Your Colleagu by wperry1 · · Score: 3, Informative

    I believe the term he meant to use was oligarchy which somehow gets confused with fascism over and over.

    oligarchy: a government in which a small group exercises control especially for corrupt and selfish purposes; also : a group exercising such control

    from: http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=oligarchy

  19. Good try! by DAtkins · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Surely you've been here long enough to realize that actual definitions don't matter in a political debate on slashdot. Or, you know, America for that matter.

    If we actually understood the definitions of things, we couldn't call Bush Adolf Hitler. We couldn't call Al Gore Jerry Garcia, and you couldn't call Hillary a well trained irish setter. Really, where would the fun be in that?

    Oh yeah, reasoned debate about the issues at hand... only losers do that.

    Until then, I'm just going to be sad that a congressmen that I don't support financially, that I've never written or spoken to about my feelings on the issues, and whose name I hardly know - supports the people that do. It's exactly like a monarchy... apparently.

  20. What is being missed in all this by Kylere · · Score: 2, Informative

    if you use Comcast DNS servers, you are also randomly being blocked from visiting www.google.com and the block is due to a reset command being sent from Comcast. Using a DNS server not managed by monkeys like opendns.com allows you back on Google. This has been occuring to people since Comcast started playing with BT traffic. Try a search of http://www.google.com/search?q=connection+reset+google+comcast&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a/ to see some people talking about it. Since they have the capability to block sites this way also, why is the RIAA not suing them for failing to block Pirate Bay?

  21. Not Qos by wonkavader · · Score: 4, Insightful
    "Guys, if we want to win the argument on Net Neutrality, we can't keep confusing QOS with NN."

    If we want to be able to have a conversation at all, we need to stop confusing QOS with fraud. QOS sets attributes in packets which are designed to establish priority. Fraud (in this case) means posing as the customer and sending a fake message, then lying about sending the fake message.

    For example, if a telco decided to cut sampling rates on telephone calls from 8khz to 7.6khz for residential service to customers of other carriers, that would be quality of service (QOS). If, on the other hand, the carrier were to use their equipment to dial everyone who called you who was not a customer of the same carrier, spoofing your phone number on caller ID, and using a voice filter which made their voice sound enough like yours to be convincing, and telling them "Don't call me anymore. Stop. I don't want to hear from you for at least a week. Got it? Yeah, I mean it. Stop calling for a while. Don't take that tone with me. Just stop calling. Yes, this is me. Who else would I be? Now Stop Calling." And then told you that they would NEVER do such a thing. That would be fraud.

    Since telcos are being trusted with our identities (phone numbers, IPs, etc), our privacy (which they'd never violate without a warrant, as we've seen), and the functioning, as generally intended and advertised, of the Internet, character means something in this context.

    I hope this helps us get our terms in agreement, so that we can have an argument, or even a conversation, on NN.

  22. Re:Comcast Tesll Congressman: We Own Your Colleagu by camperslo · · Score: 4, Informative

    Comcast has politely reminded this wayward congressman that in America laws are paid for by bribes. Comcast then offered the congressman a "campaign contribution", silencing his dissent. The system works.

    That is why F.C.C. rules should be changed to ban paid-for political ads on radio, tv, satellite and cable.
    They should bring back the old rules where broadcasters commit on their license/renewal applications to a minimum amount of public affairs programming (which could included free political time) and limits on the maximum number of commercial minutesper hour. Broadcasters could pick their own numbers, but could be at a disadvantage at renewal time if a competing applicant wants to do more to serve the community.
    What I suggest is not a restriction on free speech, only a restriction on what broadcasters can accept payment for.

    Most of the corruption we see with our politicians relates to them selling out to obtain money for campaigns. Eliminating money from the picture for radio and tv would certainly lessen the need to raise money for campaigns.

    We should go back to earlier much more restrictive rules on how many stations a licensee could own. I think we should go beyond that and require that some specified percentage (perhaps increasing over time) of stations in a region have licensees that live in the city-grade coverage area of their station. Having local licensees would go a long ways towards making broadcasters more responsive to serving the needs of their local communities.

    Having a free and diverse press and broadcasters and a free flow of information is essential for democracy to function properly. We should not allow any corporate or special interest groups to own a sizeable chunk of our broadcast stations. These stations are supposed to be trustees of the public interest, not just cash cows for large companies.

  23. Re:Nice glasses by Artifakt · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Probably if Nixon had stalled for a time and then admitted some people in his committee to reelect had gone off on their own, and claimed he would clean it up, he would have been left to serve out his term. Nixon had several strikes against him that increased the seriousness of Watergate.
    1. He was managing an unpopular war.
    2. He'd claimed to have some secret plans that he couldn't reveal to fix the US's problems. There was a real spike in claims that the public would just have to trust its Executive branch, as so many things had to be kept secret. After 4+ years, more and more people were questioning why his administration couldn't reveal at least some more details.
    3. He was arranging meetings with carefully picked members of the public and press, and trying to spin it so that these looked like spontaneous encounters where he had to field tough questions. That claim too was unraveling.
    4. Corruption in his administration was known to extend to Agnew. It's hard to claim you were ignorant of acts by minor functionaries when one of them is your 2nd in command.

    So there's two main differences between the Nixon administration and this one.
    1. The press isn't asking the same kind of tough questions they asked Nixon.
    2. The Vice President hasn't been charged with anything yet (probably because the press isn't asking tough questions there either).

    --
    Who is John Cabal?
  24. Re:Nice glasses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The questions are being asked, repeatedly. The executive branch doesn't answer them, or lies. And when the press is lied to it no longer gives a shit.

  25. Mexico is going that route right now by Santana · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Mexico has approved a reform to the current electoral legislation which does something similar.

    The last presidential elections were so full of spots on TV that were more about bad mouthing the competitor than proposing solutions. A lot of money had to be raised and compromises were made by the competitors for sure.

    The winner is the one who has the deepest wallet.

    From now on, candidates can use only the government's paid time on TV.

    The media is going crazy of course because they won't get a lot of money any more for the spots, and they're masquerading this worry as a "free speech" violation (because they won't be able editorialize the campaign coverage in any form)

    It's not a coincidence that Dong Nguyen Huu has said that the Mexican electoral system is one of the most advanced in the world. Let's see how it goes.

    --
    The best way to predict the future is to invent it
  26. The 14 points of Fascism by aztektum · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Disclaimer: My comments mostly point at occurrences under Bush. I feel Dems and Reps are equally shady, under handed parties. Other than cut/paste the list, I didn't dig around for anything other than what I came up with off the top of my head.

    Fascist Warning Sign #1: Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism.

    If you're not with "U.S." you're a terrorist. Bills named the "Patriot Act" so sheeple feel warm and fuzzy.

    Fascist Warning Sign #2: Disdain for the importance of human rights.

    Suspension of Habeus corpus, illegal phone taps, "enemy combatants", black bag kidnappings, Patriot Act...

    Fascist Warning Sign #3: Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause.

    "Axis of Evil"

    Fascist Warning Sign #4: The supremacy of the military/avid militarism.

    Bush has had the military deployed in combat for 6 years. His administration continues to suggest they will attack other countries if they don't follow our ultimatums.

    Fascist Warning Sign #5: Rampant sexism.

    This one maybe not so much. Our international talking head (Condoleeza) counts against #5 I would say.

    Fascist Warning Sign #6: A controlled mass media.

    Maybe not directly, but the networks kowtow in order to not be left out and really don't question much.

    Fascist Warning Sign #7: Obsession with national security.

    This one should be pretty obvious.

    Fascist Warning Sign #8: Religion and ruling elite tied together.

    In God We Trust.

    Fascist Warning Sign #9: Power of corporations protected.

    This one isn't just a Bush thing. This goes back decades.

    Fascist Warning Sign #10: Power of labor suppressed or eliminated.

    See #9

    Fascist Warning Sign #11: Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts.

    Suppression of global warming research, laws/court rulings protecting IP while minimizing fair use.

    Fascist Warning Sign #12: Obsession with crime and punishment.

    Bush governed Texas, the state with a record for most executions. Before his time began the war on drugs. Even individual states are guilty of this.

    Fascist Warning Sign #13: Rampant cronyism and corruption.

    Abrahmoff, Halliburton no-bid contracts, etc etc

    Fascist Warning Sign #14: Fraudulent elections.

    Who can tell. Maybe not directly, but supporters running local campaigns have passed out false information pamphlets in attempts to keep.

    So that's what, 2 of 14 I can't come up with something right off the top of my head. Viva Liberty!

    --
    :: aztek ::
    No sig for you!!
  27. RIAA revenue by seven+of+five · · Score: 2, Funny

    Seeing that the last moneymaker for RIAA/MPAA is income from fileshare lawsuit judgements, the last thing they'd want to see is fileshare traffic throttled. Time for RIAA to sue Comcast for loss of income.

  28. Re:Comcast Tesll Congressman: We Own Your Colleagu by WhatAmIDoingHere · · Score: 2, Interesting

    You want it to be, sure. But when your city/town/state/country fucks up you go "Oh shit, lets fix this!" not "Lets see what Paris is up to on the next channel."

    Loving your country is one thing. Believing it can do no wrong is nationalism.

    --
    Not a Twitter sockpuppet... but I wish I was.
  29. Re:Comcast Tesll Congressman: We Own Your Colleagu by zegota · · Score: 2, Funny
    Facial discrimination is the great unspoken tragedy that stalks this nation

    Sounds like a pretty hardcore porn site.

  30. national governments by falconwolf · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I guess I don't understand the usage of this...or the danger of it. I mean, doesn't everyone want their country/nation to come out on top? Isn't that what a nation's government works for (supposedly)?

    No, a national or federal government's job is to defend the nation and protect its citizens, but not as a nanny. "You can't do this, you can't eat that."

    Falcon
  31. habeas corpus by falconwolf · · Score: 2, Informative

    There are currently limitations on habeas corpus for aliens, not citizens.

    The GP is right and you're wrong on this. All the Bush admin feels it needs to do is call someone an enemy combatant. This admin denied the US citizen Jose Padilla habeas corpus. CATO has called this a Dangerous Precedent.

    Falcon