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The Science Education Myth
xzvf writes "BusinessWeek says that you should not listen to the conventional wisdom. According to a new report, US schools are turning out more capable science and engineering grads than the job market can support. 'The authors of the report, the Urban Institute's Hal Salzman and Georgetown University professor Lindsay Lowell, show that math, science, and reading test scores at the primary and secondary level have increased over the past two decades, and U.S. students are now close to the top of international rankings. Perhaps just as surprising, the report finds that our education system actually produces more science and engineering graduates than the market demands.'"
I'm kinda a freak because I went to school and just studied what interested me without regard to how I was going to apply it to getting a job
A lot of people do that. It is actually quite common.
I am inclined to think that this observation about having too many educated people suggests a couple of things:
1) The oft-repeated corporate line that outsourcing is needed because American talent is unavailable is pure bunk (though we all knew this already).
2) The government could use this as justification for a reduction in the amount of student loans/grants it gives out....but it won't because:
3) The economic benefit of producing too many well-educated people is clear: we wind up with a lot of workers in the market who are burdened with bankruptcy-surviving student debts, thus making them desperate enough to work low-paying jobs for which they are very overqualified, much to the delight of their employers.
For example, 20+ years ago, the U.S. was a significant exporter of technology (right? This is what my elders tell me). Now China and Japan design our cell phones and motherboards. So if we the number of scientists and engineers has increased again, then we should start to gain back those engineering and manufacturing facilities.
Absolutely true. One of the beautiful things about the free market economy is you can differentiate between what people *claim* vs what people actually do. People claim that the US is facing massive shortages in the sciences, but all you have to do is look at the salaries. There's only a "shortage" if businesses wish to pay minimum wage.
It's also interesting how Business Week's research shows the U.S. near the top of lists in science and literacy when others claim we're falling back into the stone age. BW notes the cause of this discrepency:
*Interpretation* and *validity* of testing data is almost always flawed on some level. That's why my cynicism gene kicks into overdrive when I hear of Brand New Research demonstrating...anything. If someone has an agenda, any data can be *made* to say whatever they want.Also, it might be worth noting that "academia" does not necessarily imply "government" when it comes to funding... No one said better. We only said Industry is less inclined to fund far term, low probability of profit projects that are basic science.
Here and here
and here
is a few link to my local universities faculty and a brief summary of what they research. Note the distinct rarity of projects with any near term profit motive. Also note this is the same university which had a faculty member create a sequencer which revolutionized genetics by automating and speeding up sequencing. Ever once in a while airy fairy academic research hits pay dirt and then private industry takes over.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
People really need to quantify words like "reasonable" and "lots". What many tech people consider a "reasonable" wage actually puts them in the top 10%.
Take a look at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_in_the_United_States
This shows that 42% of people earn less than 25K a year.
One should not theorize before one has data. -Sherlock Holmes-
How do you even remotely make the connection between one single old professor complaining about his students and a general trend across the entire population?
I concur the parent-post statement. I was about to make a comment on exactly that point. As a physics graduate student I had to teach loads and loads of students and their math/physics/analytical skills were a depressing sight to see. So at least as far as highschool level is concerned I definitely think that they are getting worse and worse and their SAT scores are getting easier and easier (stabilizing the national test average or increasing it) and giving the illusion that US kids are getting better and better in science-related areas.
Now having gone through the graduate program myself (as a foreign student) in the end all of them that made it (americans and foreigners) had a comparable level of science training, although there were visible pressures in the graduate program to become "lighter" and more accommodating to the hard struggling american students (struggling to catch up).
So in the end the graduate program delivers the goods to all, but the number of casualties who either dropped out or did something lighter (Masters) was overwhelmingly dominated by the american students. This is a real pressure exerted on any graduate University program (where performance is judged among other things on the number of PhD students per year) to lighten up. How long can they hold on to stricter standards remains to be seen...
Yam, yam, uga booga, yam, yam, yade, yade, uga booga, yam, yam, yade, yade
The reason those friends of yours just out of college are getting jobs is that they're firing the more expensive older guys to make room for you and your cheaper friends.
Corn subsidies, along with a lot of the other produce based agricultural subsidies, aren't there for profit margins. They are there for security. By supporting agriculture in the US, the government is ensuring that in case of a complete economic crash, there is still an existing agriculture production market that is still capable of producing enough food to feed the country. It's like long term disability insurance. You pay for it every month, but you hope to hell you never have to use it.
Ethanol subsidies on the other hand, suck donkey balls, but at least they keep farmers on the land.
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
$25K sounds a bit low for median income, but I'll bite.
I spent a decade in grad school, got a PhD on physics from one of the best universities in my field. I've managed several dozen half million dollar contracts. I work the usual 70-100 hour work week. I also live in one of the highest cost of living areas in the country. This is why I make the big bucks.