Technology as Tattletale

The New York Times is carrying an article noting the increasing presence of location-sensing technologies in our lives. It discusses several applications of the technology like tracking stolen cash from a bank, or making sure a teenage son follows the rules. The article also notes that these ultra-high resolution GPS trackers can allow freedom as much as restrict it: "Project Lifesaver, a nonprofit group in Chesapeake, Va., fits Alzheimer's patients and autistic children with radio frequency beacons disguised as bracelets, which help emergency responders find them if they are lost. Next spring the group will introduce new bracelets, created by Locator Systems, a British Columbia company, that combine radio signals with G.P.S. and cellular communications. That should allow caregivers to establish a zone where patients can safely wander, said Jim McIntosh, the company's chief executive. If patients wander off, emergency crews could receive more specific information."

Comments

can != does

[s4m7]

The article also notes that these ultra-high resolution GPS trackers can allow freedom as much as restrict it Yeah, and a scuba tank can offer death as much as it offers life, but rarely does when used properly.

Re:Sucks to be Young (sometimes)

[n dot l]

Meh. By then parents will be so busy doing their own stuff and generally neglecting their children that there won't be anyone to watch the monitors, so it all cancels out in the end.

Oh, wait, that already happened, you say?

Well then by all means tag the little bastards. And someone make me a device that yells "Get off my lawn!" whenever kids get close...I'm far too busy doing my own stuff and neglecting real life to be bothered...

</rant>

Why stop there?

[iminplaya]

Put on electric collars that zap you if you step "out of bounds". Easy to see where this will lead.

Re:"As much" is the key phrase

[CRCulver]

Saying that it can allow freedom *as much* as restricting it is only trying to put a good face on a device that has massive civil liberty concerns.

Since when do minors have a right to go somewhere their parent or guardian wishes them not to? I think this device has massive child-raising concerns, but your suggestion that parents cannot keep track of their children--whom they are ultimately responsible for--is silly.

Re:Sucks to be Young (sometimes)

[sqrt(2)]

A friend of mine has kids, hes in his mid 20s... His first mistake.

Let's not use a wide brush here.....

[Stanislav_J]

Using this technology to keep alzheimer's victims from wandering off or hurting themseleves is about the least objectionable "tattletale" scenario I can think of. Going to the other end of the spectrum; say, routinely tracking a driver's movements in his own private car....ah, not so much. Technology itself is neutral, and while it can be used for the betterment of mankind, there will always be the temptation to expand a successful tracking technology for use in ever widening circles of privacy violations. That is why we need strong, sensible legislation to prevent abuses and draw boundries. Unfortunately, that requires strong, sensible politicians to make the law, and I don't think they're making any of those anymore.

Re:Let's not use a wide brush here.....

[Thrip]

Technology itself is neutral Thanks for wasting everyone's time by mindlessly quoting a cliche. Now go sit somewhere and think (if you remember how) about that for half and hour and then come back and tell us if you still believe it. A guillotine is not neutral. It has one purpose: public execution. A gasoline engine requires gasoline, with a set of results that may not have been predictable at the time of invention, but certainly are not "neutral."

True, the morality of something like a GPS is much harder to weigh than, say, a flamethrower. But that is a reason to be more careful, not less. We pretty much accept that when people develop a new piece of hardware, they have a responsibility to make sure it won't explode in your face (unless it's, you know, a face-exploder, which I'm sure someone is working on in God's great US of A). When your bank put's up a new web site, we all presume they have spent a lot of time making sure it's secure. It's about time we started holding technology companies just as responsible for thinking through privacy issues before releasing something.

If the mp3 player catches fire in your pants, it's broken and should not have been released. If the website lets hackers get your bank account number, it's broken and should not have been released. If the car tells dad you spent the night at your girlfriend's house instead of at boy scouts, or tells the department of homeland security you stopped by the mosque, it's broken and should not have been released.

Re:"As much" is the key phrase

[DaedalusHKX]

Wow, man, just wow. According to you, I should have been dead, as should all my extended family. Not only were we NOT chipped and tagged like cattle, but we grew up spending quite a bit of time on the streets (videogames weren't available where I grew up, until I was about 10). Amazing, and you're saying that without the EOG (eye of god) mechanism, a child cannot be expected to be responsible?

No wonder you people need lords and masters to tell you when to breathe.

Re:"As much" is the key phrase

[DaedalusHKX]

Think on it like this. When a whole generation grows up tagged like cattle, always submitting to the cops, never having shot or carried a gun or trained in any form of hand to hand combat (call it martial arts, call it PT, call it what you will), and never having exercised their own rights (which are now presumed "granted by government" anyways) what more do you need to enslave them?

The fence is like that which a dog learns of early in life inside the electric fence. Walk too far and BZZT. Eventually even if the power dies, that dog will NEVER test the limits again (unless he's one of those rare individuals that resist submission at all costs (dominant/alpha)).

I don't see this as being that useful, other than as a way to keep the cattle of mankind in line and teach them that "someone's always watching"... the great "eye in the sky" and all.

The upside is that there will be plenty who will exercise their freedom, and circumvent these technologies, and eventually leave this planet to the meek/cattle-people to live on. It is the only logical outcome. You cannot "save the world" because it includes the bovine-men alongside those who will not be cowed, and the bovines refuse to be saved... better to be hamburger for sure than to contest with the wild beasts for survival on the range. The only solution is to leave (if anyone suggests crushing the bovine-people in a genocidal armageddon, while fun to entertain in Quake 4 Enemy Territory, in real life, such an endeavor is doomed to fail, and in the unlikely event of success, the drain on the psyche would leave the victors in worse shape than the now nonexistent losers). And I would not be too surprised if the exodus I'm suggesting, has happened at least once before in the history of mankind.

Re:"As much" is the key phrase

[houghi]

Not a right as such. But that does not mean that they not should be able to do so. How do you learn trust if you do not trust them.

I knew a girl that was watched all the time by her parents. ALL THE TIME. She was not allowed to go anywhere. That was untill she was 18. Then she was out on her own. Having had no experience of what bounderies should be, she became the school slut in a matter of weeks.

And being the school slut only harms her. Having a whole generation of kids that have not learned what trust and bounderies are will result in a desaster on a much greater scale.

I agree, we should think of the children, but as them being the future, not little people that stay children all the time.

Re:"As much" is the key phrase

[Charcharodon]

I put one of those on my dog because he like to go say hi to everyone in the neighboorhood. For a bout a week he refused to move out of the middle of the yard since he was so scared of the fence. That was until he figured out where the control box was and chewed it up, turning the fence off. I'm not saying he was smart enough to figure that out, he just managed to chew up the right thing, but he certaining didn't stay in the yard once he figured out the power was gone.

Nothing in life is an absolute or even remotely permanent. People can get used to all kinds of restrictions, but that doesn't mean that they'll stay that way for very long once the restrictions are lifted. Take a look at any riot or natural distaster for very recent examples.

Re:"As much" is the key phrase

[Thrip]

You know, if you're trying to make a reasonable argument, you should try not to lose all your credibility by suggesting that going to live somewhere on a different planet is "the only logical outcome." Just so you know, it's not even a remote possibility. You can gaze up at the sky all day, but come nightfall, you'll be herded back into the barn like the rest of us. Some of us ARE planning a stampede, and your escapist stargazing is not helping.

Re:Yeah, that sounds great....

[Anonymous Coward]

http://forgetmenotpanties.com/

I have no problem with GPS tracking in cars

[Shivetya]

when it comes to parents (the owners of the cars) who lend them to their children. I think every parent has the right to know where their car and child is. Giving a car to a child is a big hand over of responsbility but it does not end that responsibility for the parent. The child (adult for some) is entrusted to behave as the parent instructs and operation of a car outside of direct parental supervision is not a license to be a hooligan. Once the child becomes an adult by law or moves out the use of such a device should end.

We lose too many children every year to auto accidents and perhaps knowing they are being watched over will save a few from fruitless loss. It could do very well to protect them as well from actions outside of their control - giving responders guidance to where they are in an emergency.

Re:"As much" is the key phrase

[FooAtWFU]

He wrote:

I think this device has massive child-raising concerns, but your suggestion that parents cannot keep track of their children--whom they are ultimately responsible for--is silly. You wrote:

Wow, man, just wow. According to you, I should have been dead, as should all my extended family. Now, as a random Slashdotter who just stumbled into TFCommentPage, I must say that this is a very impressive non sequitor. (And there's a lot of other stuff I could say about the exchange, but I'll refrain.)

Not for my kids

[throatmonster]

...and they are on the verge of teenage years. I've always refused to let them be fingerprinted, photo ID'd, whatever, in those programs that claim they only give the information to you (the parent) in case your child goes missing. It's far too easy to run afoul of laws, even when the activity itself is relatively benign. I'm going to give them every chance NOT to be tracked if they want to disappear.

Having said that, I make a lot of effort to know where my children are, in more ways than one. Not just physically, but mentally and emotionally. The physical stuff is really important when they are young. The mental and emotional stuff is really important as they get older. All the technology in the world won't replace good parenting.

Re:Not for my kids

[AgentPaper]

Funny, that. My mother refused to have me kid-printed when the friendly local law enforcement officer came to our school, but it wasn't because she felt that I should be able to run away - far from it. She didn't want my fingerprints, or any other identifying information, where the cops could get their hands on it. (Our local constabulary wasn't exactly known for its stringent adherence to due process, particularly where kids were concerned.)

That said, my parents always knew where I was, or at least who I was with. I had a few out-of-bounds areas (must be within two miles of home or school if unaccompanied, no riding bikes on major roads unless the road has a sidewalk), and I had to let them know if I was going to stay late at school or go to a friend's house, but other than that, they trusted that I was smart enough to stay away from trouble. (Either that, or they recognized that I was less likely to cause trouble if I was outside burning up energy than cooped in the house with nothing to do.)

Poor-man's GPS

[Sax Maniac]

No kidding. I accidentally discovered this a few years ago! I found out that I can use online banking to figure out where my wife is. Unlike GPS, it works indoors! Each bank card is like a satellite, the more you have the more accurate it becomes. Thus, the poor-man's GPS: in more ways than one.

Bunch of idiots - this DOES increase freedom

[cumin]

Or one of the first independent generations in years?

Seriously, do you think that most kids get to go wherever they want as soon as they're old enough to ask? Do you think that most kids are at home because they want to be or because their parents feel like they aren't safe roaming the neighborhood? I doubt most kids in the last eighty years were allowed to visit neighbors or wander the neighborhood before they were fifteen. Two hundred years ago in colonial America, kids could just take off and play or hang out. Parents didn't need to restrict them because they were mostly safe, and mostly accountable. It was that kind of independence of mind that grew the minds our freedoms are based on. If you want a child to value freedom and have an independent spirit, you must give them a chance to exercise it and it would be called negligence in most cities in America to do so.

I can't get over the shock of how many idiots assume parents are less likely to let their kids experience life because of technology. Get a clue! Parents that keep their kids under lock and key will always be that paranoid, but if they can track their kids, then at least the kids might be able to leave the house before they turn eighteen.

Instead I see all these idiotic posts making the assumption that parents are letting their kids have freedom but just waiting for a gadget to restrict it. Morons! Those parents aren't letting their kids have freedom, those kids are on lock down right now and this might be a chance for them to actually get out from under the thumbs of worried guardians and all you can do is spout knee-jerk *responsibility is bad* crap.

Re:"As much" is the key phrase

[DaedalusHKX]

You know, as much as I think your idea is good, stampedes are the reason Remington sells .44 Remington Magnum Wadcutter ammo... to crack the heads of the lead beasts. The rest, as you said, get herded quietly. This has been the direct outcome of every slave revolt since Spartacus (lest you forget, he LOST, and a LOT of weaker men were crucified along both sides of a LONG road, all courtesy of our "civilized" Western Roman Empire, the CRADLE of the fine and civilized Catholic/Christian Religion and of the marvel of Western "Civilization".

You'd do well to think on that carefully.

Please, do not feel that I'm discouraging your stampede. As far as I'm concerned, do what you THINK or FEEL is right.

Do what you feel is right, I won't argue your decision... but if you do it, make sure you WIN... it would be the second SEMI-SUCCESSFUL slave revolt in history, and if you keep what you WIN (freedom) it will be the first FULLY successful one. The last semi-successful one was in 1776, and they only managed to keep that hard won freedom until 1791, when the cattle consented to have a new fence built, to "enable interstate trade" or some such excuse, when the only REAL purpose was... indeed, to BUILT A NEW PEN for the bovine-men.

When necessity is argued, look closely at what is being proposed.

"Necessity is the creed of slaves, it is the argument of tyrants."

As for getting out into space, I can guarantee that if the government STAYS OUT OF IT (highly unlikely), the private sector would probably solve the problem in 10 years tops, and more likely in 5 or so. Private individuals have DRIVEN innovation and discovery, whether the concept of BSD, or that of Linux (it was a private endeavor by Linus Torvalds that started it, and those that undertook projects did it mostly to satisfy egos, needs or desires) or AC electricity distribution/generation (Nikola Tesla), or Diesel engines (Rudolf Diesel), or Gas engines or whatever invention have you, its all been the result of private endeavors. Monolithic/Institutionalized government has only been a roadblock to actual progress, generally adapting all inventions to maintain its own existence and blocking advances that would've dissipated the great struggle for resources that justifies the very existence of monolithic institutionalized government... generally at great cost to its peons... ahem slaves... ahem... "citizens".