Slashdot Mirror


Senators Call For Hearing On Carrier Content Blocking

HangingChad writes "Two Senators on Friday called for a congressional hearing to investigate reports that phone and cable companies are unfairly stifling communications over the Internet and on cell phones. Now that the Senate is getting into the act, Comcast will probably want to come up with some new talking points as their old ones were leaked."

15 of 152 comments (clear)

  1. Regardless of the outcome by xquark · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Shouldn't market forces be allowed to decide whether
    or not the public wants their internet and mobile
    communications blocked or censored?
    btw I know that in some areas carriers have a total
    monopoly over internet access, but still...

    --
    Arash Partow's Philosophy: Be a person who knows what they don't know, and not a person who doesn't know.
    1. Re:Regardless of the outcome by 10101001+10101001 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Shouldn't market forces be allowed to decide whether or not the public wants their internet and mobile communications blocked or censored?

      You know, that sounds like a great idea. In fact, you know what I want? An internet service that censors child pornography, bestiality, and any other information that could get me into legal trouble as well as blocks spam. I mean, the fact that Comcast *isn't* ofering to block child porn *right now* sure seems to indicate that Comcast is a willful accessory to commercial child porn production*!

      Besides that, what if Comcast did promise "we'll block p2p". Well, use a VPN tunnel. They promise to block those too? Create VPN', a proprietary version of VPN that only you and another user know about. They try to only claim to block certain ports? Well, we'll make sure to spam the use of so many they'll have to block all the useful ones to really mean anything. And any time they fail? Time to sue them for false advertising and fraud.

      So, yea, I welcome the free market on trying to do the impossible. Next up, Comcast can start throwing water balloons at customers' cars in their parking-lots in a step to sell year-round comfort control.

      *Before you try to fault my logic, it follows simply. Comcast has shown an ability to block content. Hence, it is within the power of Comcast to block child porn. Hence, their chosing not to is because either (a) it's not cost effective, (b) no one really wants it, or (c) that they can lure in pedophile customers. Both (a) and (c) are totally commercial interests on why they wouldn't block child porn, which would clearly show they value their commercial interests more than they care if they aid criminal behavior. I think that shows them to be a willful accessory, so long as one person is ever charged with accessing child porn through their network (something that's pretty definite to happen eventually, regardless). As for (b), I already stated I wanted to block child porn, so (b) isn't true.

      --
      Eurohacker European paranoia, gun rights, and h
    2. Re:Regardless of the outcome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Comcast wants to sell a bittorrent-limiting service, and customers want to buy it, then more power to them.
      There has to be some responsibility on the part of the buyer to know what they are buying. If the buyer declines to read the contract, it is not the seller's fault.

      Comcast says in the agreement that they reserve the right to limit traffic that degrades their system.

      The very very very small number of Comcast users that use BitTorrent use many times the system resources of non-BitTorrent using customers.

    3. Re:Regardless of the outcome by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Shouldn't market forces be allowed to decide whether or not the public wants their internet and mobile communications blocked or censored?

      No.

      Telco service is a natural monopoly, as well as a legally granted one. Beyond the market failure, there is still the issue that I do not believe companies (should) have unfettered access to do whatever is most profitable. I think that the richer you are, the more responsibilites you have and the governemnt has a right to enforce that. Cue progressive taxation, anti-dicrimination laws, and sexual harassment laws, as well as EPA, FCC, FAA, and numerous other restrictions.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    4. Re:Regardless of the outcome by churchcomposer · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If Comcast is selling " x megabits down and y kilobits upload", I DO NOT agree that they can do what they are doing, which is deliberately and deceptively killing specific uploads. It ought to be illegal - it is interfering with interstate commerce, or it is deliberate interference and disruption to an existing business relationship, or with an existing contractual relationship, that exists between whoever is sitting at the two peers. Especially since there ARE commercial, LEGAL, file transfers that take place using bittorrent, and they purchased Comcast's service for that purpose (among others). I think the bittorrent folks need to come up with a revision to their software that includes, in the datastream, a peer-to-peer message, properly encrypted, that tells the other peer, in effect: "this stream IS continuing, it has NOT been terminated, regardless of what you may receive to the contrary - any status message you receive that is NOT properly authenticated through encryption is bogus, so continue the transfer".

    5. Re:Regardless of the outcome by 3vi1 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You don't yet understand how the sandvine works: It's not forging bittorent packets; it's adding the RST bits to the packets at the network layer. There's nothing you can do at the application layer to stop the underlying connection from being dropped, and the application can't continue to use the session after it's been torn down by the OS - it has to start the connection all over.

      If you're using Linux, you can drop the RST flags with a few iptables entries. But, as I suspect Comcast's setup turns on RST on your outgoing packets as well... the other side will still drop the connection unless they have the same iptables setup.

      Hmmm... I wonder if non-Comcast users can sue them for messing with our internet experience (i.e. having their users continually creating/dropping bittorrent connections to us while we're trying to seed our Linux ISOs).

  2. Re:Whaaa!? by jaredmauch · · Score: 2, Interesting

    There are intelligent staffers on the hill that understand these issues. They're what helps. If you noticed, it was suggested that the distinguished senator from alaska had folks calling for him to get some tech staffers after the grandpa simpson 'tubes' incident.

  3. It probably won't make any difference. by kcbrown · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The telco execs can lie to congress all day long and they won't get so much as a slap on the wrist for it.

    For the same reason, congress ultimately won't do anything about the telcos and cable companies blocking content -- they're paid (bribed, in various forms, most of which are almost certainly not on the record) not to.

    Not only are they paid not to by the telcos, they're paid not to by the RIAA, MPAA, and the media corporations. That latter is especially important because without the support of the media, you will not win an election campaign, period.

    Big corporations rule the U.S. these days, and there's no stopping it now. There's no way to, even including violent revolution. We're way past the point of no return. And it's not just the U.S., either, but most of the rest of the world as well.

    Historically, totalitarianism of one form or another has been by far the preferred form of government, as evidenced by the fact that the vast majority of the people who have ever lived have lived under it. The experiment with freedom in the world is tiny in comparison.

    Well, it was nice while it lasted. I'm going to miss it.

    --
    Use 'slashdot stuff' in the subject line in any email you send me if you want to get past the spam filter.
  4. wait until next year by westlake · · Score: 2, Interesting

    anyone calling himself HangingChad should know that no significant policy changes in telecommunications - or anything else, for that matter - are going to come out of Congress until after next year's Presidential elections.

  5. unfair vs. illiegal by bwy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I think it is import to distinguish between what we just don't like and what is actually illegal- i.e. unconstitutional.

    For example, I just posted something on Apple's support forums about distaste for the fact that they chose not to include Java 6 in Leopard. They deleted the entire thread. I don't like it and I think ti sucks. BUT- it isn't illegal. They own the support forum! They can delete whatever the hell they want. This has nothing to do with the 1st Amendment. The 1st Amedement doesn't grant you the right to speak freely in someone else's property. It doesn't even grant you the right to enter their property.

    I believe content blocking/filtering/etc is the same type thing. Some ISP will pop up who uses this as marketing material. They'll market themselves as the ones who "don't block anything."

    1. Re:unfair vs. illiegal by mabhatter654 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      but telcos are granted those monopoly perks in exchange for being fair about traffic so the public can make money. The only reason anybody was able to GET internet at home in the first place was that telcos were prohibited from banning connections to local phone numbers we used for our dial up modems. Imagine in 1995 if telcos made a 30 minute limit on non-voice phone calls. Where would we be now?

      Or how about charging extra to dial a modem or fax than to DIAL a voice phone line.. the point is that they tried that ages ago, and the feds demanded they not do it. Internet connection is the "phone" service of the 21st century. How many phone companies block who you can CALL on your phone... hell you can call india or china if you got a number and there's a whole industry built around scamming people to call those places but they won't even challenge the calls unless you ask for your line to challenge that type... and there are 57 different types of long distance you have to ask to block individually.

      They want to change the rules for internet so they can offer services they previously not allowed to. They were always blocked from offering news, and other phone-call services back in the day but want to try to get away with not only offering services.. but blocking competition on their lines. Imagine if we had the yellow pages but say calling a number of a towing company that wasn't in the book or was low-ranked resulted in your call going to the company that paid more for ads. It's quickly becoming obvious that the telcos are trying to pull that stunt under the congress critter's noses and the critters might catch on soon enough.

  6. "What would the Founding Fathers say?" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    When I'm unsure as to whether something is good or bad, as an American I reach my answer by asking, "What would the Founding Fathers say?"

    I know in this case, they'd be completely against censorship of any form. Censorship and content blocking are unacceptable, especially in a nation like the United States, where free expression forms the basis of the national identity.

    Although they're not necessarily bound by the Constitution, the carriers, as American companies, should still try their hardest to abide by and uphold those ideals.

  7. Let's talk about blocking SMTP port 25 by Comcast by VTEngineer · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I have a business, we use Comcast at home. My business has 2 SMTP servers out on the net, but Comcast blocks outbound port 25 under the guise of limiting spammers. They encourage usage of their SMTP servers, but we routinely send pictures with our emails because we are in the construction business. Comcast simply times out sending large files (5-10Mb). Thus, my business is adversely affected. Complaints have been met with silence. I finally SSH tunneled out to a server to send email. I find that inappropriate at best, down right criminal at worst. Why does Comcast get to decide what SMTP I utilize? I pay for access, not filtered access, to the internet. Utilizing my paid for business servers should not be arbitrarily barred. Bit Torrent is just the tip of the iceberg. We have corporate masters that we must adhere to their version of the net. Please allow true competition in broad band. Comcast just stinks and they are my only option. No DSL or FIOS in my county because the county commissioners have a kickback arrangement with Comcast. Verizon won't touch Frederick County, MD.

  8. Common Carrier Status by D.A.+Zollinger · · Score: 2, Interesting

    My question is this:
    If Comcast is blocking, throttling, or in some other way denying traffic, don't they lose their common carrier status? And wouldn't this open them up to lawsuits? After all if they are able to slow X traffic, why can't they stop illegal music/movie/software/etc. downloads?

    If you were a copyright holder, and you suspected that individuals were copying your works over the Comcast network - who is throttling specific traffic - wouldn't you sue to get them to stop the flow of traffic containing your works? Why doesn't this action open them up to legal action from the litigious-happy RIAA and others?

    --
    I haven't lost my mind!
    It is backed up on disk...somewhere...
  9. Re:Bollocks by jc42 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So a government sanctioned monopoly ( or at least a monopoly the government doesn't hive a shit about trying to break up ) can be allowed to control communications, while simultaneously being obliged to provide information to the government under "National Security" concerns?

    Yes, this is how things have been going in the US for some time now. You see, the folks in power have figured out something important: Those protections in the Constitution only apply to government organizations. The courts have upheld the idea that private corporations aren't required to obey the Constitution, because they're not government agencies, and the Constitution clearly only limits what government agencies can do.

    The idea now is to "privatize" everything. That way, the Constitution's protections will be moot, because everything will be done by corporations, not government agencies, and when dealing with a corporation, you have no rights.

    We've seen exactly this point argued here in /. over and over. We've been told repeatedly that corporations have only one duty: to maximize their profit and thus payouts to shareholders. This is another way of saying that they aren't, and shouldn't be required to follow any laws (aka government regulation). And this argument is usually made in situations where what's being discussed would be illegal if a government agency did it.

    The current topic is a case of this. The government has First Amendment limits to how much it can control "speech", which to any rational reader would include information that people transfer electronically by any means, although when the Constitution was written, there was no such thing as electronic transfer of information. You and I clearly have a legal right to download a torrent of an ISO of last week's release of the latest ubuntu. But the First Amendment starts with "Congress shall make no law ...", so it clearly only limits the government. Private corporations are not so limited, and can legally enforce whatever rules they like limiting the information transferred via their hardware.

    So in the US, things like free speech and freedom of the press are essentially irrelevant now. The government can't limit them, but the government no longer much deals with them. It's more and more in the hands of unregulated corporations, and they have the right to do whatever they like with the data being trucked down their tubes. In particular, while the government may have no right to record your use of comm lines, the telecom companies do have this right, and they also have the right to hand over the information they gather to any government agencies that are interested. If they don't like us downloading those ISOs, they have the legal right to interfere with our downloads.

    The only way out of this loophole is a constitutional amendment that extends the Bill of Rights to private corporations. This isn't likely to happen any time soon.

    --
    Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.