There is absolutely a first-mover incentive. My friends and colleagues who are building fiber say that when there is new construction if you're building fiber the incumbents will say "Oh, this area is covered" and will not build as there's no requirement to build since people aren't getting things like POTS anymore. If they're facing competition, they won't build in that area (for now). The construction managers will spend their budget someplace else.
The goal of the municipalities is to make the cost lower vs higher with permitting costs, etc.. Right now they're 15-50% of the costs between permits, engineering, etc.. much of it depends on where you are building.
microtrenching isn't the solution either, it's one method if an approved method. Commercial folks will quote $8-12/ft, and most people won't talk to you for less than a 250k or $1m project. Mine is less than that so while the distance is far (~13k feet) it's still not enough. You also can't do this yourself, to do a bore requires at least 2 people and a CDL because of weight of equipment, etc..
self funded. Going to cost me about 90-120k in direct or indirect costs to get started. It's necessary for my WFH options and does have a ROI, but it's also not a quick ROI. The alternatives are to move, but we're reasonably happy with the home. Some people do a remodel, this is my variant of it.
I can tell you much of the problem is about how to retrofit existing areas. New builds get fiber, but anything that existed before 2014 or so is a legacy build. I live in an area that was built in the late 90s and there's no hope of getting anything fast out here so I'm doing it myself. The costs are reasonable (about 30-50k/mile) but the majority of the issue is in permitting to go underground. (If you go on poles, it's actually just as expensive as underground in many cases due to annual fees on the poles, engineering studies, tree clearing fees, make-ready, etc.. Plus then you need to own a bucket truck and other expenses).
The wholesale cost of the bandwidth is nothing, it's all about the cost to put the stuff in the ground and the permit process. Expect 30% of your costs (and 90% of build-time) to be constrained by engineering and permitting costs. The rest of that 30-50k USD/mile cost is the labor and materials needed. You need to put in a place every 2-3 homes you pass to deliver service. There are a lot of people doing this in rural areas to close the gap but most people have only heard of the incumbents so there's a market awareness problem. Many people that are WISPs (see WISPA.org) are now moving into the fiber world, but the capital costs are around 50-250k to get all the equipment you need for underground construction.
Rough costs if you care: 35c/ft for conduit, 7-10c/ft for fiber (once you get large counts like 96 count, it's closer to 1c/strand/foot) and $100-300 for a pedestal or hand-hole, plus splice trays, etc. $1/foot (linear) * $1/foot (depth) for your route if it's not complicated. Costs go up in urban environments very quickly if you have a lot of requirements or other utilities to dodge.
What you're asking for is what's known as an APEX CNAME. Some DNS providers provide this sort of faux support (I think Cloudflare and Route53 do this) via some wizardry. There is an active discussion in the DNSOP WG at the IETF about this. Come join the madness!
This isn't related to that at all, it's not about the registrar and registry system. (You can thank ICANN for that). This is about software that has to workaround several types of bugs or legacy behavior. Imagine if your web browser still had to parse those gopher:// links
This isn't related to that, there's features like EDNS cookies just like you have TCP cookies to help prevent DDoS and other things. It's fine if you don't upgrade, but what will happen is you may not work as the DNS industry is doing the same thing as IPv6 day and IPv6 launch and standing together saying "we are removing all the workarounds for non-standards compliant and buggy servers".
I gave up on TV years ago, and when I travel or am exposed to it in public, I'm reminded why. I'm not missing anything and most other things are coming OTT or I can just download. I'm mostly happy with my relationship with purchasing a tv season and getting it the next morning commercial free. The buggy devices could use some refinement, but to avoid the 90dB noise fest, I can live with it.
My comment re: UUCP is having to manually configure for each site I want to distribute mail to. I'm not worried about STARTTLS stripping, I want to avoid building a full list I have to maintain manually. This is mostly a postfix issue (for me) that it's not aggressive enough in using the STARTTLS offered by the far-side.
I had someone contact me about my server -> gmail as I host a number of mailing lists and other technical resources. After much research it seems the only way to fix it is to hard code that gmail and other locations are to be encrypted vs the default opportunistic encryption of "if they offer it, try it".
There are a lot of things that should be addressed here to ensure data is properly encrypted, this is easy and a solvable problem but at least for postfix I had to enter some custom maps which the software should have solved for itself with the 'may' setting. I'm past the UUCP days, I don't want to maintain a map of who can do things and who can't. We need to solve this software not doing the right thing problem first.
I have to say it's this. 50% of the US population lives in the Eastern time zone. That means if you only have things on the east coast, you are most likely to cover everyone. Ask someone in a central state what their latency and network paths are, you end up going to Seattle, Chicago, Dallas, LA and sometimes the bay area to change networks. Not a lot of interconnection happens in the mountain states, and even markets like Phoenix while large don't quite have enough density to make sense.
I was perhaps trying to be more subtle. This should have been a non-event. The problem here is clearly that people without a clue about technology went and abused this kid who is still learning. Did you take a moment to read the letter the school district sent out? They basically said that nobody else should bring something like this in and if they do to "tell an adult" vs ask some questions and have it be a non-event. Instead they paraded the kid out like he was a criminal. That's surely not private where the teacher saying "hey this is cool, can you show me after class" might be much better.
Thanks for misconstruing my comment though, I see it got you +5. I'll go back to cowboyneal jokes vs trying to engage in dialogue.
This is "tell a grownup" territory vs the schools helping teach teenagers (which need guidance, just like some of us adults need from time to time) on what is appropriate or not. This will obviously be a trigger story for people in the tech community that feel sensitive to this issue or raw because of bullying they received and why some of us have trouble trusting school judgement as grown men and women.
I just wish they handled this privately with the parents without dragging the liason officer into the mix, the local police, etc.. Judgement call made wrong way clearly.
And really. If the threat was actually real, or realistically perceived that way, we should have heard of the evacuation on the news yesterday.
"I find the defendant not guilty. As for Science versus Religion, I'm issuing a restraining order. Religion must stay 500 yards from Science at all times"
I see consistently faster times with my IPv6 vs IPv4 with my native service at home, even with just pings. This seems to be the norm with most networks. If you are using a tunnel broker, such as he.net or otherwise you are most likely going a longer path with those artificial midpoints. Also, your browser may be broken as it doesn't implement rfc6555 properly.
Perhaps you missed world IPv6 day when they both jumped at the same time to enable their front pages? There are a lot of things that don't work right in an IPv6 only world, such as Skype but the list of things that doesn't work is getting shorter. If you take a look at the statistics it's quite encouraging to see a steady growth curve.
[citation needed] for your assertion. Been deploying IPv6 at a major ISP/carrier for 13 years now. If you bought the wrong stuff or didn't ask for IPv6, you may be right but the proper gear is out there and doesn't cost any more. I can even get IPv6 over my VPN connection.
The issue is one of mentality and training. Above someone says "turned off IPv6, problem went away". That's certainly one way to say "I blame IPv6". They didn't troubleshoot the problem. Perhaps it's a DNS problem or something else they haven't properly diagnosed. Without actually understanding how the protocols work, one is doomed to failure and blame.
When you look at the major players who have deployed IPv6, including Netflix, Google, Yahoo to name but a few and compare that with the statistics on the cellular side... VZ Wireless sees over 60% IPv6 traffic. With the coming "great mobile demotion" tomorrow, it's more likely those devices if they come over 3GPP/LTE will perhaps visit you via IPv6 than via IPv4 if you properly enable your front door. If you are a CDN customer, it's a button to turn on IPv6. Cloudflare has it on by default, Akamai you have to ask, same for Limelight.
The edge protocols have only really reached maturity in the past 2 years to deliver a connection to the edge or your home. CPE lifetime is somewhere in the 3-7 year range, we are still another generation away from having the home properly IPv6 enabled, but it's more often just going to be there and "just work". There are a lot of IT workers who haven't invested enough to learn about the subtle differences in V6, such as NDP vs ARP, etc and will block all ICMPv6 not understanding they are blocking NDP so can't see a response to their NS. This too will pass much in the same way as those who only knew appletalk or IPX routing.
Not really, Fiber is the same cost to put in the ground and you can get fusion splicers for around $1500 these days. The cost is all in putting the cable into the ground. If you are touching the earth, that's the expensive part. Permits (which understandably people want to leverage Title II to assist with repairs/upgrades/deployment) can actually be 1/3rd of the cost. next 1/3rd is labor and last 1/3rd is the fiber.
There is a cultural split here, many people want things for the cheapest possible amount, or will switch for the next "deal" in 1-2 years because it saves them $5/mo and comes with a gift-card, but they have to take the day off for an installer to come by, costing them more than their savings in lost wages. Some people flat out value their time at $0.
The community of Slashdot may be willing to pay $70/mo for google fiber plus $100/yr for Prime, $96/yr for Netflix, etc. The cost per home to wire for fiber is about $2500, if you think the cell phone subsidy model in the US is an issue, try getting someone to write a check for that. Shared tenant buildings like Apartments are quite complex, including in NYC as the telco can get access to the building riser/copper but would have to install fiber. Who is responsible for the in-building wiring in that case?
AT&T has fiber about 1200 feet from me but the only speeds offered are 768k and 1.5M down. I would be willing to pay for a FTTH install, but there is no way for them to figure out how to do it. Last time I got a quote for a build, it was about $60k to build fiber. Moving easily becomes an option at that point.
It's not farmer john you have to worry about, that long strech of fiber likely already exists, and they can give right of way much easier. It's the Township, County and Road Commission that has got to get paid for permits and labor costs, not the cost of the fiber.
Gardening leave is usually about having time for someone else to be forced to look at their work and ask questions while they're still around on payroll.
I'm actually surprised more people don't use something like RFC1760 to authenticate with systems. The passwords are one-time use and back in the days before SSH this is what we used to get behind the packet filtering to servers when using cleartext authentication.
Slashdot Mirror
There is absolutely a first-mover incentive. My friends and colleagues who are building fiber say that when there is new construction if you're building fiber the incumbents will say "Oh, this area is covered" and will not build as there's no requirement to build since people aren't getting things like POTS anymore. If they're facing competition, they won't build in that area (for now). The construction managers will spend their budget someplace else.
The goal of the municipalities is to make the cost lower vs higher with permitting costs, etc.. Right now they're 15-50% of the costs between permits, engineering, etc.. much of it depends on where you are building.
microtrenching isn't the solution either, it's one method if an approved method. Commercial folks will quote $8-12/ft, and most people won't talk to you for less than a 250k or $1m project. Mine is less than that so while the distance is far (~13k feet) it's still not enough. You also can't do this yourself, to do a bore requires at least 2 people and a CDL because of weight of equipment, etc..
self funded. Going to cost me about 90-120k in direct or indirect costs to get started. It's necessary for my WFH options and does have a ROI, but it's also not a quick ROI. The alternatives are to move, but we're reasonably happy with the home. Some people do a remodel, this is my variant of it.
I can tell you much of the problem is about how to retrofit existing areas. New builds get fiber, but anything that existed before 2014 or so is a legacy build. I live in an area that was built in the late 90s and there's no hope of getting anything fast out here so I'm doing it myself. The costs are reasonable (about 30-50k/mile) but the majority of the issue is in permitting to go underground. (If you go on poles, it's actually just as expensive as underground in many cases due to annual fees on the poles, engineering studies, tree clearing fees, make-ready, etc.. Plus then you need to own a bucket truck and other expenses).
The wholesale cost of the bandwidth is nothing, it's all about the cost to put the stuff in the ground and the permit process. Expect 30% of your costs (and 90% of build-time) to be constrained by engineering and permitting costs. The rest of that 30-50k USD/mile cost is the labor and materials needed. You need to put in a place every 2-3 homes you pass to deliver service. There are a lot of people doing this in rural areas to close the gap but most people have only heard of the incumbents so there's a market awareness problem. Many people that are WISPs (see WISPA.org) are now moving into the fiber world, but the capital costs are around 50-250k to get all the equipment you need for underground construction.
Rough costs if you care: 35c/ft for conduit, 7-10c/ft for fiber (once you get large counts like 96 count, it's closer to 1c/strand/foot) and $100-300 for a pedestal or hand-hole, plus splice trays, etc. $1/foot (linear) * $1/foot (depth) for your route if it's not complicated. Costs go up in urban environments very quickly if you have a lot of requirements or other utilities to dodge.
What you're asking for is what's known as an APEX CNAME. Some DNS providers provide this sort of faux support (I think Cloudflare and Route53 do this) via some wizardry. There is an active discussion in the DNSOP WG at the IETF about this. Come join the madness!
This isn't related to that at all, it's not about the registrar and registry system. (You can thank ICANN for that). This is about software that has to workaround several types of bugs or legacy behavior. Imagine if your web browser still had to parse those gopher:// links
This isn't related to that, there's features like EDNS cookies just like you have TCP cookies to help prevent DDoS and other things. It's fine if you don't upgrade, but what will happen is you may not work as the DNS industry is doing the same thing as IPv6 day and IPv6 launch and standing together saying "we are removing all the workarounds for non-standards compliant and buggy servers".
I gave up on TV years ago, and when I travel or am exposed to it in public, I'm reminded why. I'm not missing anything and most other things are coming OTT or I can just download. I'm mostly happy with my relationship with purchasing a tv season and getting it the next morning commercial free. The buggy devices could use some refinement, but to avoid the 90dB noise fest, I can live with it.
My comment re: UUCP is having to manually configure for each site I want to distribute mail to. I'm not worried about STARTTLS stripping, I want to avoid building a full list I have to maintain manually. This is mostly a postfix issue (for me) that it's not aggressive enough in using the STARTTLS offered by the far-side.
I had someone contact me about my server -> gmail as I host a number of mailing lists and other technical resources. After much research it seems the only way to fix it is to hard code that gmail and other locations are to be encrypted vs the default opportunistic encryption of "if they offer it, try it".
There are a lot of things that should be addressed here to ensure data is properly encrypted, this is easy and a solvable problem but at least for postfix I had to enter some custom maps which the software should have solved for itself with the 'may' setting. I'm past the UUCP days, I don't want to maintain a map of who can do things and who can't. We need to solve this software not doing the right thing problem first.
I have to say it's this. 50% of the US population lives in the Eastern time zone. That means if you only have things on the east coast, you are most likely to cover everyone. Ask someone in a central state what their latency and network paths are, you end up going to Seattle, Chicago, Dallas, LA and sometimes the bay area to change networks. Not a lot of interconnection happens in the mountain states, and even markets like Phoenix while large don't quite have enough density to make sense.
Also, take a look at the letter text posted in this comment: http://news.slashdot.org/comme...
I was perhaps trying to be more subtle. This should have been a non-event. The problem here is clearly that people without a clue about technology went and abused this kid who is still learning. Did you take a moment to read the letter the school district sent out? They basically said that nobody else should bring something like this in and if they do to "tell an adult" vs ask some questions and have it be a non-event. Instead they paraded the kid out like he was a criminal. That's surely not private where the teacher saying "hey this is cool, can you show me after class" might be much better.
Thanks for misconstruing my comment though, I see it got you +5. I'll go back to cowboyneal jokes vs trying to engage in dialogue.
Agreed.
This is "tell a grownup" territory vs the schools helping teach teenagers (which need guidance, just like some of us adults need from time to time) on what is appropriate or not. This will obviously be a trigger story for people in the tech community that feel sensitive to this issue or raw because of bullying they received and why some of us have trouble trusting school judgement as grown men and women.
I just wish they handled this privately with the parents without dragging the liason officer into the mix, the local police, etc.. Judgement call made wrong way clearly.
And really. If the threat was actually real, or realistically perceived that way, we should have heard of the evacuation on the news yesterday.
The sad thing is that what is basically the twitter feed of Patrick/Ken at Popehat keeps getting carried as real news. This article should be captured in this addendum: http://popehat.com/2014/12/20/... and http://www.newsweek.com/interv...
"I find the defendant not guilty. As for Science versus Religion, I'm issuing a restraining order. Religion must stay 500 yards from Science at all times"
We're not there yet. You can check the activities in sunset4 wg at ietf about disabling ipv4.
I see consistently faster times with my IPv6 vs IPv4 with my native service at home, even with just pings. This seems to be the norm with most networks. If you are using a tunnel broker, such as he.net or otherwise you are most likely going a longer path with those artificial midpoints. Also, your browser may be broken as it doesn't implement rfc6555 properly.
Perhaps you missed world IPv6 day when they both jumped at the same time to enable their front pages? There are a lot of things that don't work right in an IPv6 only world, such as Skype but the list of things that doesn't work is getting shorter. If you take a look at the statistics it's quite encouraging to see a steady growth curve.
https://www.google.com/intl/en...
[citation needed] for your assertion. Been deploying IPv6 at a major ISP/carrier for 13 years now. If you bought the wrong stuff or didn't ask for IPv6, you may be right but the proper gear is out there and doesn't cost any more. I can even get IPv6 over my VPN connection.
The issue is one of mentality and training. Above someone says "turned off IPv6, problem went away". That's certainly one way to say "I blame IPv6". They didn't troubleshoot the problem. Perhaps it's a DNS problem or something else they haven't properly diagnosed. Without actually understanding how the protocols work, one is doomed to failure and blame.
When you look at the major players who have deployed IPv6, including Netflix, Google, Yahoo to name but a few and compare that with the statistics on the cellular side... VZ Wireless sees over 60% IPv6 traffic. With the coming "great mobile demotion" tomorrow, it's more likely those devices if they come over 3GPP/LTE will perhaps visit you via IPv6 than via IPv4 if you properly enable your front door. If you are a CDN customer, it's a button to turn on IPv6. Cloudflare has it on by default, Akamai you have to ask, same for Limelight.
The edge protocols have only really reached maturity in the past 2 years to deliver a connection to the edge or your home. CPE lifetime is somewhere in the 3-7 year range, we are still another generation away from having the home properly IPv6 enabled, but it's more often just going to be there and "just work". There are a lot of IT workers who haven't invested enough to learn about the subtle differences in V6, such as NDP vs ARP, etc and will block all ICMPv6 not understanding they are blocking NDP so can't see a response to their NS. This too will pass much in the same way as those who only knew appletalk or IPX routing.
Not really, Fiber is the same cost to put in the ground and you can get fusion splicers for around $1500 these days. The cost is all in putting the cable into the ground. If you are touching the earth, that's the expensive part. Permits (which understandably people want to leverage Title II to assist with repairs/upgrades/deployment) can actually be 1/3rd of the cost. next 1/3rd is labor and last 1/3rd is the fiber.
There is a cultural split here, many people want things for the cheapest possible amount, or will switch for the next "deal" in 1-2 years because it saves them $5/mo and comes with a gift-card, but they have to take the day off for an installer to come by, costing them more than their savings in lost wages. Some people flat out value their time at $0.
The community of Slashdot may be willing to pay $70/mo for google fiber plus $100/yr for Prime, $96/yr for Netflix, etc. The cost per home to wire for fiber is about $2500, if you think the cell phone subsidy model in the US is an issue, try getting someone to write a check for that. Shared tenant buildings like Apartments are quite complex, including in NYC as the telco can get access to the building riser/copper but would have to install fiber. Who is responsible for the in-building wiring in that case?
AT&T has fiber about 1200 feet from me but the only speeds offered are 768k and 1.5M down. I would be willing to pay for a FTTH install, but there is no way for them to figure out how to do it. Last time I got a quote for a build, it was about $60k to build fiber. Moving easily becomes an option at that point.
It's not farmer john you have to worry about, that long strech of fiber likely already exists, and they can give right of way much easier. It's the Township, County and Road Commission that has got to get paid for permits and labor costs, not the cost of the fiber.
Gardening leave is usually about having time for someone else to be forced to look at their work and ask questions while they're still around on payroll.
I'm actually surprised more people don't use something like RFC1760 to authenticate with systems. The passwords are one-time use and back in the days before SSH this is what we used to get behind the packet filtering to servers when using cleartext authentication.