News On Laptops For Education

AdamWill notes a Mandriva press release with the news that the government of Nigeria has selected Intel-powered classmate PCs running Mandriva Linux for educational use in a nationwide pilot. About 17,000 machines will be involved at first. We can only wonder at the maneuvering and negotiations that went on with the OLPC project. The latter had its first announced order for 100,000 XO machines, from Uruguay, with a potential for 400,000 over time. The bigger news out of OLPC is that Microsoft is porting XP to the platform, and chairman Nicholas Negroponte says that's fine with him: "It would be hard for OLPC to say it was 'open' and then be closed to Microsoft. Open means open."

Comments

I ask for your advice

[Anonymous Coward]

I just got an email from son of the former Education Minister of Nigeria.
In the mail he states that he has recently acquired 17000 classmate laptops
(seventeen thousand US laptops) and he is trying to get them out of the country.
He is asking for my assistance and I shall be rewarded greatly (5000 laptops).
To cover up the expenses he is asking me to send five Packard Bell notebooks
with Windows Vista Home Premium.

What should I do? Is this some kind of scam?

Re:I ask for your advice

[sammyF70]

I'd be carefull if it didn't have any spelling errors in the mail body. Legit offers of that types are recognized by at least 3 typos or grammatical errors/paragraph.

OLPC open?

[the_brobdingnagian]

The OLPC is suppost to be completely open and user maintainable. But the wireless drivers are blobs. From the OLPC "Core principles"

There is no inherent external dependency in being able to localize software into their language, fix the software to remove bugs, and repurpose the software to fit their needs. Nor is there any restriction in regard to redistribution; OLPC cannot know and should not control how the tools we create will be re-purposed in the future. I like the project, but I wish they could stick to their core principle. I would really like a completely open computer, especially such a cool looking, low power, rugged laptop.

Re:OLPC open?

[samkass]

The "open" comment quoted in the summary kind of implies that Microsoft is working on a port on a level playing field with the "open" folks. If you actually read the article, though, you find that the OLPC folks are actively working with Microsoft, sending them first-run hardware, and otherwise favoring Microsoft in order to get XP onto their system. That's not just "letting it be open", it's actively working towards getting a more closed OS onto the system.

Also, I vaguely recall a rumor that Apple offered MacOS X for free and it was declined, so I'm not entirely clear on OLPC's motives here.

Re:OLPC open?

[the_brobdingnagian]

On the olpc wiki site, there is a page called "Core principles" (http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Core_principles/lang-en). This page lists five "principles" that, judging from the page titles seem to be the core principles of the project. The fifth "core principle" is titled "Free and Open Source", from wich I got my quote. Maybe they should create a page called "things that would also be nice" and put "Free and Open Source" on that page. My opinion is that the page of core principles is actually correct, but they could not find a practical solution that fits all their needs and decided too loosen their principles.

Re:OLPC open?

[iabervon]

The wifi driver is GPL (and included in the mainline linux kernel already). The wireless chip firmware is the proprietary part. But, of course, that's more open than most of the chips in the system, which can't be changed in the field at all, and when can't be modified without a chip fab. People are actually working on reverse-engineering the chip specs (it looks like an ARM920T with a radio peripheral), but it's perfectly reasonable to consider the chip as a device with a detailed specification that has a very long, particular, and incomprehensible (but carefully documented) startup sequence.

Re:OLPC open?

[FranTaylor]

Ironically enough, rms got the idea for free software when he couldn't get at the source code to the printer in his lab.

I do agree with you, though. You can think of the blob as some microcode for controlling the hardware. It could have been integrated into the hardware, but it would be slower and harder to work with. If it were in the hardware, nobody would be clamoring for its source. If we are really paranoid about drivers, perhaps they too could be boxed-in like SELinux does with applications.

Given that the wireless radio must be constrained differently in different countries, and the regulatory agencies of said countries don't want people to muck with certain radio settings, you can put all those constraints in hardware, which seems like it would be difficult to maintain, or you can do it in a binary blob.

I have a bad feeling about this

[eln]

I don't know if I like how this project is being rolled out. For example, the Nigerian government has said they will pay for these laptops with part of the proceeds from a bank account containing $500,000,000 left by a rich oil baron who was killed in a car accident and left no heir. However, they are asking Negroponte to pose as this guy's heir, and also to give them a few thousand dollars for documentation fees and the like. I just don't see this thing turning out well.

Re:I have a bad feeling about this

[kingduct]

In a serious sense, even were the OLPC (or the Intel machine in this arcile) what was needed to improve education in the third world, the reality is that I highly doubt the distribution will ever be fair.

Having lived in a poor country myself for a number of years, I suspect that some member of the ruling oligarchy (which controls a party as well as controlling much of business) in most countries will end up becoming the "importer" and in order to "recover costs" and "include taxes" and "shipping and handling", will find that the poorest people should buy one for 600 dollars, which will still be much less than other cheap laptops there are.

People will be offered microcredits to buy them for their children (maybe they will be required to do so), and will do so, because they think this cute little machine will advance them into the future. Of course, the wealthy friends of the oligarchs will get them for free. In the meantime, the end result will be a transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich.

Now, some of you will say, "No! There are protections to do that. These things are set up to avoid that." However, "transparency" is just a word that the systematically corrupt trot out -- when third world leaders/governments/systems claim to be transparent, you know that they just stole money. I know this is a pessimistic post, but it is based on a lot of experience. I hope that places like Uruguay are slightly better on this issue -- certainly better than most of Latin America, but I have little doubt that that is what will happen in Nigeria.

The money made will truly end up in some bank account. The Americans who will benefit are the stakeholders in the factories designing and producing these things, and poor Nigerians will still be poor, and no better educated.

Re:Why not Vista??

[MikeUW]

Add to this the problem that XP on a low cost laptop becomes the initial hardware price, plus $X for the OS, plus $Y for useful productivity software (assuming MS pushes that too), plus $Z for who knows what else. I know there's no reason anyone would be forced to buy extra software just because their machine runs Windows, but you have to admit that it helps reinforce the mindset that software should be purchased from a company like MS. Try to imagine that mindset combined with the perspective of new users in developing regions where computing is still not so ubiquitous as it is in more developed places. OTOH, Linux (BSD or whatever) on a low cost laptop is the initial hardware price, plus $0 for the OS, $0 for useful productivity software that is often pre-installed, plus $0 for whatever else...and of course, it opens up greater possibilities for for those that move past the point-and-click stage of the computing learning curve.

Free and Open Environment

[Anonymous Coward]

From the OLPC Wiki (http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Core_principles/lang-en) -- "Give me a free and open environment and I will learn and teach with joy."

Sounds good, but wait ...

"It would be hard for OLPC to say it was 'open' and then be closed to Microsoft. Open means open."

So you're open to the idea of making the OLPC closed? Well done! I'm not sure what the heck OLPC is about anymore. At first it seemed great, then the price went up, they chose a non-open manufacturer for their network chip, and now Windows? Give me a break. I bet they'll use "the children" as an excuse for their actions this time aswell.

Re:Why not Vista??

[BUL2294]

Are you serious? Even Microsoft knows better than to submit 3rd-world kids to "the wow is now..."

Check the specs from http://www.classmatepc.com/ ... 900Mhz, 0 L2 (prominently featured on the page for some reason), 256MB RAM, 1 or 2GB flash, 800x480 screen. Somehow the 2GB version incredibly manages to fit XP Pro (why Pro?) and MS-Office.

Vista would look at this configuration and show a screen of Bill Gates laughing at the user. Hell I doubt even M$ could trim Vista down enough to run in such a configuration, given the bloated piece of crap Vista is. (I wonder what Vista's "experience rating" would be--0.2?)

Re:Why not Vista??

[AmaDaden]

I'm guessing that XP already has some drivers and changes that XO needs that 98 doesn't and that Vista is so heavy to run that it would be more work to take it all out then to just use XP. The funny thing is that they do have Windows CE http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_ce that is made for this kind of thing. The only reason I would guess they are not using that is because it looks "too 90's" or something.

Negroponte is doing the world a favor

[zappepcs]

On the one hand, the OLPC is open, so let MS port their OS. On the other hand, the chances the MS will port any of the bloated MS products to work well on the OLPC will convince a great many people that MS OS products are not necessarily the thing that they *MUST* have to be relevant in the world of computing.

I would have thought that Windows CE would be the better choice for the OLPC. XP??? What are they thinking?

Sure, it might be possible, but it is a move that is so far in the opposite direction of where MS products have been going you have to ask yourself if it is a joke? Even with their flagship OS, the latest great update has been the kind of success that you wish on your competition. How in the hell are they going to make XP fit on the OLPC? It's performance has not been lauded around the world as THE shining example of how an OS should work on a laptop.

Classmate PC

[Woek]

When I looked into the Classmate PC I read on Intel's site:

Developed to address gaps in education found by Intel's extensive ethnographic research,...

Riiiight... It has nothing to do with the positive response on the OLPC project.

Re:Open

[DragonWriter]

But 'open' DOESN'T mean that the XO project should have doubled the specs and cost of the OLPC so Microsoft would have an easier time porting to it.

It didn't double the specs or the cost to do that. The cost is still less than double the $100 target, and it was projected to be over that target in the early production runs even before they increased the specs to meet the needs that the countries looking into buying it had communicated. Yes, some of that was probably related to ability to run Windows, but so what? The OLPC project isn't working to advance the interests of developed-world Linux fans, its making a machine to meet the needs of real people in the real world. And if the countries aren't going to buy it if it isn't capable of being repurposed to run Windows (which, if nothing else, gives the countries more options if they buy the machine and later change their mind about the software/content provided by OLPC and its partners), then OLPC needs to make a machine that addresses that concern.

Re:Why not Vista??

[DragonWriter]

It was the purpose that was formulated followed by a selection of an OS which just as easily could have been BSD or even Windows if it was best-suited.

Part of the requirement had to do with licensing, so barring Microsoft releasing their OS under an open-source license, it couldn't have been Windows. Microsoft, IIRC, tried to get to be the OS supplier, and didn't start bad-mouthing the OLPC project until they were rejected based on licensing terms.

It could have been BSD, though.

Re:Why not Vista??

[Pyrion]

Why Pro?

Cuz Home can't join a domain.

Open???

[kgskgs]

"OLPC" stands for "One Laptop Per Child", open or not.

If Negroponte said open, only because it made it easier to deliver the envisioned product. If it makes sense to go "Close" and get one laptop per child, then so be it.

You care about "Open" only when you have enough of "Closed". For those who have none, what matters is having something.

K

I predict:

[E. Edward Grey]

In 10 years, every IT department is going to say "Why buy Windows servers, when I can get a free or nearly free server OS that's more stable, run it on cheaper hardware with half the horsepower, and hire a Nigerian immigrant who knows it inside and out to administer it?"

Re:I predict:

[tzhuge]

Also: "Why use grid power, when that same Nigerian immigrant can hand crank that server?" Server admins typing with one hand will be even more standard than it is now.

Open for everybody

[xzvf]

XO is an innovation in software as well as hardware. What I would like to see is the laptop in the hands of "rich" nation's school children. Yes, we can afford normal computers, and some school districts have deployed them, but not in an innovative way like the XO project proposition. With a truely open distribution model and relatively rich customers we might find the economies of scale that allow the laptop to cost $100.

Re:I thought open refered to the software

[ISurfTooMuch]

How will an XP port kill the project? Does it precent Linux from being run on it? No. Does it raise the cost of the laptop? Only if MS charges for XP, and it's mandatory that every machine include it.

People would be screaming bloody murder if the OLPC folks had initially selected Windows for the laptop and then refused to allow Linux developers to have a look at it so they could port Linux to it. I fail to see the difference here. Fair is fair.

Flash Drive? Swap File?

[Plekto]

I noticed that it has a 2GB flash drive. I wonder how long it will take for windows to burn it out with with its swap file.

Why not Win2k?

[eniac42]

Wouldnt Win2k be a better target for conversion than XP? It was *designed* in the days of 2Gb HDs, and can actually do useful work from 64Mb RAM..

Has anyone out there managed to get it to boot and run off Flash?

Re:Open

[sssssss27]

Reminds me of a quote by Chuck Palahniuk, "Why have I sold out? You think I'm supposed to grow old, beating some trite old protest drum that people don't hear anymore? Please; protest is now just a backdrop for a Diesel clothing ad in a slick fashion magazine. My goal is to create a metaphor that changes our reality by charming people into considering their world in a different way. It's time -- for me, at least -- to be clever and seduce people by entertaining them. I'll never be heard if I'm always ranting and griping."

It's better to "close" the OLPC a little bit then it is for it to never take off.

Re:Why not Vista??

[jollyreaper]

I'll probably get mod'ed flamebait or something, but I think it's really telling that Microsoft isn't attempting to create a software load based on Windows Vista as the starting point. And they have already stopped retailing XP... and though they prolonged XP OEM sales, it's still set to be cut off in a relatively short time. You're not serious, are you? I was all set to post a joke about "Yeah, I'm not impressed; port Vista, then I'll be impressed." These laptops are severely underpowered by today's standards; bear in mind that today's software is bloated and requires such overpowering. The OLPC machines are more like PDA's on steroids than laptops as we think of them -- but that's a good thing, because today's PDA's are pretty powerful. I have a Palm Tungsten that's great for word processing if I hook it up to the external IR keyboard. No hard drive, simple display, long battery life, what's to hate? I can play a frickin' Command and Conquer clone complete with digital sound effects. And this is all on a PDA that's a few years old. And you all know how powerful the Nintendo DS is for a handheld. My Blackberry is just as capable as the desktop I had ten years ago. The only limitation is the screen size. OLPC runs a stripped down OS, no fluff and no cruft, that's how they can use a low horsepower machine with extended battery life, low cost, and high durability.

I would be very surprised if they got XP running on that thing. Vista? Unthinkable. I would have expected some manner of Windows CE port.

Re:Open

[mhall119]

Throw this theoretical OS on a newer machine (1GHz and up, all the way up to dual-core) and you've got a super simple OS that should be capable of a great deal. It's called Fedora, and it comes pre-installed on the OLPC XO-1, you can also run it (for free) on a cheaper laptop and get a fully functional, responsive computer.