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News On Laptops For Education
AdamWill notes a Mandriva press release with the news that the government of Nigeria has selected Intel-powered classmate PCs running Mandriva Linux for educational use in a nationwide pilot. About 17,000 machines will be involved at first. We can only wonder at the maneuvering and negotiations that went on with the OLPC project. The latter had its first announced order for 100,000 XO machines, from Uruguay, with a potential for 400,000 over time. The bigger news out of OLPC is that Microsoft is porting XP to the platform, and chairman Nicholas Negroponte says that's fine with him: "It would be hard for OLPC to say it was 'open' and then be closed to Microsoft. Open means open."
I'll probably get mod'ed flamebait or something, but I think it's really telling that Microsoft isn't attempting to create a software load based on Windows Vista as the starting point. And they have already stopped retailing XP... and though they prolonged XP OEM sales, it's still set to be cut off in a relatively short time.
Frankly, I think they'd have better luck bringing back Windows98 to put on the OLPC/XO machine. I can't begin to imagine how badly it would perform, but judging from some of the WinXP hack-loads I have seen, perhaps there's a chance it could work, but I can't imagine it will work terribly well or suit any particular purpose.
After all, Linux wasn't selected followed by a purpose. It was the purpose that was formulated followed by a selection of an OS which just as easily could have been BSD or even Windows if it was best-suited. And let's face it, if some charity activity asked Microsoft for backing through giving away their software, I think they'd be very inclined to do it.
In the mail he states that he has recently acquired 17000 classmate laptops
(seventeen thousand US laptops) and he is trying to get them out of the country.
He is asking for my assistance and I shall be rewarded greatly (5000 laptops).
To cover up the expenses he is asking me to send five Packard Bell notebooks
with Windows Vista Home Premium.
What should I do? Is this some kind of scam?
I don't know if I like how this project is being rolled out. For example, the Nigerian government has said they will pay for these laptops with part of the proceeds from a bank account containing $500,000,000 left by a rich oil baron who was killed in a car accident and left no heir. However, they are asking Negroponte to pose as this guy's heir, and also to give them a few thousand dollars for documentation fees and the like. I just don't see this thing turning out well.
not to whoever will kill the project with close sourced software. Perhaps this means they plan to open the source code for WinXP! That way they can claim the "community will support it" and they'll focus on Vista/Longhorn
Ask not what you can do for your country. Ask what your country did to you
"Dear SIR,
Our kind lawyer has advised us to purchase 100,000 notebooks with Linux....
we have placed the funds of millions of dollars worth of gold for you in a Swiss account, but need you to advance us a small forwarding fee so that we can get that money to you..."
This is my sig.
If Vista is ported for the OLPC project then we might have something amazing on our hands. In its current state Vista would probably never respond on the platform. But if Vista is shrunken, code-bloat is removed, functionality re-thought and re-implemented. They might be on to something... Something that I might be interested in.
This sig isn't original enough, it's time to come up with something witty...
From the OLPC Wiki (http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Core_principles/lang-en) -- "Give me a free and open environment and I will learn and teach with joy."
...
Sounds good, but wait
"It would be hard for OLPC to say it was 'open' and then be closed to Microsoft. Open means open."
So you're open to the idea of making the OLPC closed? Well done! I'm not sure what the heck OLPC is about anymore. At first it seemed great, then the price went up, they chose a non-open manufacturer for their network chip, and now Windows? Give me a break. I bet they'll use "the children" as an excuse for their actions this time aswell.
... yes, in about 8 to 10 years.
Freedom is Slavery Ignorance is Strength ...aaaaannnd according to Negroponte:
Open is Closed
On the one hand, the OLPC is open, so let MS port their OS. On the other hand, the chances the MS will port any of the bloated MS products to work well on the OLPC will convince a great many people that MS OS products are not necessarily the thing that they *MUST* have to be relevant in the world of computing.
I would have thought that Windows CE would be the better choice for the OLPC. XP??? What are they thinking?
Sure, it might be possible, but it is a move that is so far in the opposite direction of where MS products have been going you have to ask yourself if it is a joke? Even with their flagship OS, the latest great update has been the kind of success that you wish on your competition. How in the hell are they going to make XP fit on the OLPC? It's performance has not been lauded around the world as THE shining example of how an OS should work on a laptop.
Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
Too bad Mandriva suffers from the same laptop hdd head unload/load issues!
Riiiight... It has nothing to do with the positive response on the OLPC project.
I predict that 2008 will provide similar opportunities to bleed karma; also, it's going to be The Year Of Linux On The Desktop!
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
And it will never be available for you except with one of these machines.
Now, I like these machines and I like the goal of the project, but they're not really what most people in much of the European and north American people want, in mass. Sure, a few people wil get them to play with, but they are the exception.
OTOH, maybe they will start putting them on American shelves as 'computers for kids' or some such and charge 100 bucks. For the record, I hope they do.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
It didn't double the specs or the cost to do that. The cost is still less than double the $100 target, and it was projected to be over that target in the early production runs even before they increased the specs to meet the needs that the countries looking into buying it had communicated. Yes, some of that was probably related to ability to run Windows, but so what? The OLPC project isn't working to advance the interests of developed-world Linux fans, its making a machine to meet the needs of real people in the real world. And if the countries aren't going to buy it if it isn't capable of being repurposed to run Windows (which, if nothing else, gives the countries more options if they buy the machine and later change their mind about the software/content provided by OLPC and its partners), then OLPC needs to make a machine that addresses that concern.
"They'll learn to use something other than Windows! It's competitition!"
I think the goal of OLPC is "Teaching Children", not "Teaching Children to use computers". While I'm sure some children exposed to computers through this program might wind up taking up the craft, the majority probably won't. The real question is: Can Microsoft, once done porting, use the full force of its might to create a superior system for Children, the way it has for Businesses? (people who think OOo isn't a peice of shit need not reply)
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
"OLPC" stands for "One Laptop Per Child", open or not.
If Negroponte said open, only because it made it easier to deliver the envisioned product. If it makes sense to go "Close" and get one laptop per child, then so be it.
You care about "Open" only when you have enough of "Closed". For those who have none, what matters is having something.
K
In 10 years, every IT department is going to say "Why buy Windows servers, when I can get a free or nearly free server OS that's more stable, run it on cheaper hardware with half the horsepower, and hire a Nigerian immigrant who knows it inside and out to administer it?"
---don't make me break out my red pen.
If they're concerned about the real world, they would have used an ARM processor (less expensive, faster, less watts, better durability, etc than the piece of shit AMD geode (rhymes with choad) they're using).
XO is an innovation in software as well as hardware. What I would like to see is the laptop in the hands of "rich" nation's school children. Yes, we can afford normal computers, and some school districts have deployed them, but not in an innovative way like the XO project proposition. With a truely open distribution model and relatively rich customers we might find the economies of scale that allow the laptop to cost $100.
I noticed that it has a 2GB flash drive. I wonder how long it will take for windows to burn it out with with its swap file.
I've run xp acceptably (no games, of course, some patience involved on various load times) on a 900MHz athlon. The clockspeeds are comparable, but we all know how little that matters.
RAM's going to be an issue, and I think the 2GB of "HD" is going to come back to bite them pretty quickly. At least on the eee, the OS and apps take up about 75% of that. I'm sure the damnsmalllinux guys are deeply amused.
ceci n'est pas un sig.
Wouldnt Win2k be a better target for conversion than XP? It was *designed* in the days of 2Gb HDs, and can actually do useful work from 64Mb RAM..
Has anyone out there managed to get it to boot and run off Flash?
"A nation that forgets its past is doomed to repeat it." - Churchill
As for the real motivations behind the SD slot, here is what Walter Bender had to say:
OOo isn't a piece of shit. It is a pretty good product. There !
"Times of India is reporting about the Indian Ministry of Human Resource Development's progress on the $10 laptop per child. Considering the OLPC price has slipped to $200 from the initial $100, it would be interesting to see the price if/when it lands in the hands of the children. From the article : Having rejected Nicholas Negroponte's offer of $100 laptops for schoolchildren, HRD ministry's idea to make laptops at $10 is firmly taking shape with two designs already in. So far, the cost of one laptop, after factoring in labour charges, is coming to $47 but the ministry feels the price will come down dramatically considering the fact that the demand would be for one million laptops. "The cost is encouraging and we are hopeful it would come down to $10. We would also look into the possibility of some Indian company manufacturing the parts," an official said.
I'd think that if Microsoft wanted something to run on the OLPC the best candidate from their current lineup would be Windows CE (or whatever that is called nowadays). It is supposed to be lightweight an so should fit the hardware nicely. Software would have to be ported for it but they might as well face the fact that OLPC is not made nor meant to run Office & friends...
--frank[at]unternet.org
Reminds me of a quote by Chuck Palahniuk, "Why have I sold out? You think I'm supposed to grow old, beating some trite old protest drum that people don't hear anymore? Please; protest is now just a backdrop for a Diesel clothing ad in a slick fashion magazine. My goal is to create a metaphor that changes our reality by charming people into considering their world in a different way. It's time -- for me, at least -- to be clever and seduce people by entertaining them. I'll never be heard if I'm always ranting and griping."
It's better to "close" the OLPC a little bit then it is for it to never take off.
October 30 2007
FROM: Mr. Ben Ahore
Central Bank of America
New York, NY
212-555-1212
TO: Honorable Nigerian Linux User
Address
Dear Sir:
I have been requested by the American National MacroSoft Company to contact you for assistance in resolving a matter. The American National MacroSoft Company has recently concluded a large number of contracts for softwares exploration in the sub-Western region. The contracts have immediately produced moneys equaling over US$40,000,000. American National MacroSoft Company is desirous of softwares exploration in other parts of the world, however, because of certain regulations of the American Government, it is unable to move these funds to another region.
You assistance is requested as a non-American citizen to assist the American National MacroSoft Company, and also the Central Bank of America, in moving these funds out of America. If the funds can be transferred to your name, in your Nigerian National account, then you can forward the funds as directed by the American National MacroSoft Company. In exchange for your accommodating services, the American National MacroSoft Company would agree to allow you to retain 10%, or US$4 million of this amount.
However, to be a legitimate transferee of these moneys according to American law, you must presently be a depositor of at least US$100,000 in an American bank which is regulated by the Central Bank of America.
If it will be possible for you to assist us, we would be most grateful. We suggest that you meet with us in person in New York, and that during your visit I introduce you to the top representative of the American National MacroSoft Company, Mr. Gill Bates, as well as with the top official of the Central Bank of America, Mr. Tinus Lorvalds.
Please call me at your earliest convenience at 212-555-1212. Time is of the essence in this matter; very quickly the American Government will realize that the Central Bank is maintaining this amount on deposit, and attempt to levy certain depository taxes on it.
Yours truly, etc.
Ben Ahore
Never said Microsoft were the makers of the OLPC. What should be clear is that installing closed-source software on any PC makes it less than an system, same as welding the hood shut on the car. Sure, you can open the doors, trunk, etc., but you can't fix the engine yourself, or get someone else to - you have to wait for the software vendor to fix it.
The only "borderline stupid" is calling something open when it isn't. An OLPC with Windows is NOT an open system, any more than any other computer with Windows on it would be. The software would come with many restrictions - EULAs, no source code, no reverse engineering, a bunch of DRM, restrictions on transfering the software, etc.
Heck, TIVO is more open - at least they give you the source, even if you can't really use it, you're free to study it, adapt it to other devices, give it away, etc.
Kevin Smith on Prince
Some has a sig which reads "Ubuntu is an ancient African word for 'I can't configure Debian'."
and Slashdotters are intelligent.
Giving someone freedom means they might do something you don't like. If you restrict them to only doing things you approve, they don't have freedom in the first place.
Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
BTW, I don't mean this to be funny, but isn't there a point where it isn't really Vista any more?
However, I DO hear that Windows 7 is aiming to be greatly streamlined. It will take a lot of elegance to get a Windows product on the OLPC and actually make it useful.
Fact: Everything I say is fiction.
...rather than a full version.
I know a lot of people might disagree that this is good, but I believe Bill Gates is doing great, charitable things.
:) Roll on global economy.
He has access to make this happen and he believes in Windows OS; So good on him! Not everything has to come from marketing executives. He doesn't live by those rules any more and his wife who also deserves a mention believes in this as much as he does. He just happens to have a lot of money and influence to carry it out. I don't use it or like it, but I doubt very much my nerd ego matters if it offers a better OS (despite negative advertising as some would see it).
I just hope some other companies provide alternatives to buyers
Stop it!
It's the fifth time I see the "Nigerian e-mail scam" parody here.
And even the first one wasn't funny...
I think you understand what I'm getting at. If there is a functional version of Vista or Windows 7 or anything like that can run on the OLPC products, then I want to run that on a cheaper laptop (or an older laptop). These things are running at 433MHz. It's got 256MB or RAM and 1GB in place of a HDD. Way under spec for Vista. It'd barely run Windows 2k. Throw this theoretical OS on a newer machine (1GHz and up, all the way up to dual-core) and you've got a super simple OS that should be capable of a great deal.
This sig isn't original enough, it's time to come up with something witty...
Someone didn't eat their wheaties this morning.
And they will call it XP2.
"an experienced, industrious, ambitious, and often, quite often, picturesque liar" - Mark Twain
No, I don't think that's the problem. He just forgot to add the Tequila.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
http://blog.mandriva.com/2007/10/31/an-open-letter-to-steve-ballmer/
:(
"We recently closed a deal with the Nigerian Government. Maybe you heard about it, Steve. They were looking for an affordable hardware+software solution for their schools. The initial batch was 17,000 machines.
...
And then, today, we hear from the customer a totally different story: "we shall pay for the Mandriva Software as agreed, but we shall replace it by Windows afterward." MS knows how to play this game...or they just invent their own set of rules
http://www.mhall119.com
The thing about DOS based, Win9x, is that, the guts of it are all written in pretty heavily hand optimized assembly language, whereas the guts of Windows NT flavors are written in C. I understand that its hard to think of Windows as "fast", but, if you look back on it, you'd find that Windows 9x did run pretty well on hardware that is positively cramped by today's standards. I remember jettisoning a lot of the junk and having Windows 95 run reasonably well on a 386DX33 (that's 33Mhz) with 4mb of RAM, and that's with a GUI. OS/2 Warp could barely move whereas Windows 9x ok, and after I put upgraded to a speedy 486, Windows 95 was pretty darned good. I had slackware back in those days, and, it too didn't really work on that hardware at all. Sure, it was -ok- with just the command line, but, X in that era was pretty rough!
I imagine that in a kiosk mode, if you did spec out the hardware for Win9x, what you could do is put the entire OS into ROM, and have it boot from that, and have a button on the box to just blow the hard drive and restore the machine to a ground zero state. That wouldn't be the most consumer friendly thing to do, but you'd always have a PC that worked, except for when it blew away all of your data - and for a web client, that doesn't really matter as much.
This is my sig.
According to this mornings Metro OLPC is lauching a 14 day Give-one-get-one programme through their website (www.xogiving.org). For £200 ($400) an XO B4 can be sent to a child abroad, and also (quote) "secure the donor one of the most advanced and coolest laptops of the year" (unquote) for themselves. Although apparently "the lack of orders has been a disappointment".
You know when you've been Simonatored!