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Microsoft's Treatment of Google Defectors
Miguel de Icaza (Note, this Miguel is not the Ximian developer, just someone whose small life is fulfilled by trolling under someone else's name) writes "Here is a story revealing just how threatened Microsoft is by Google. While senior partners can expect the full chair experience, some lowly staffers who are putting in their notice are being escorted off campus immediately. Why? Because they've put in their notice to join Google. In Microsoft's eyes, Google is Enemy No. 1. Anyone leaving Redmond for the search leader is a threat. Not because they'll scurry around collecting company secrets — as if Google's interested in Microsoft's '90s-era technologies. Departing employees, however, might tell other 'Softies how much better Google is. If an employee is leaving for Amazon.com or another second-tier employer which doesn't make Microsoft so paranoid, they'll probably serve out the traditional two weeks of unproductive wrapping up. So if you're planning on leaving Microsoft for Google, pack up your belongings and say goodbye to friends ahead of time. There'll be no cake and two weeks of paid slacking for you."
If you're leaving these days it's not uncommon to get escorted to the door... and it's not uncommon to be a perp walk, which sucks. It undermines the fabric of trust in the workforce generally and damages individual psyche specifically. Microsoft isn't unique in this regard, though the article does seem to indicate it is Google-specific.
If it is Google-specific it underscores Microsoft's pettiness, and maybe a little stupidity. They should enforce a consistent policy. Unless an employee has shown himself to be a bad seed, treat him (or her) with respect.
I experienced the perp walk (layoff) after 21 years with qwest. It has garnered nothing but ill will since. The net balance of this kind of treatment is surely negative. You can handle this kind of policy with dignity. Most don't.
While I doubt too many Google employees are leaving for the crumbling Monarchy that is Microsoft, I wouldn't be surprised if Google has similar policies and procedures.
While that is the right thing to do, why on earth would you tell your current employer where you are going next?
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Giving only one side of the issue. It could be that Microsoft has some institutional anti-Google hate, but it sounds a little bit black top hat and twirling mustache to me. I have to ask why they are leaving MS for Google in the first place. It seems to me that it's very likely they were already unhappy with their job there, so they may very well have been seen as disruptive and escorted out because of it. I know this is getting off the MS is the most evil corporation ever bandwagon, but I just don't see a huge multinational corporation having institutionalized hatred of a competitor so strongly that they can't bear to have people talk about switching teams. How does it benefit Microsoft?
http://twitter.com/OLDTELEGRAM
I've been twiddling with computers for a long time now. For me, Microsoft has always been like Churchill's definition of democracy -- it's the worst operation system (for the general public) except for all the others that have been tried. Yeah, macheads could argue that the OS* flavors are great but so many people would never even bother taking a look due to the premium price paid for the hardware. And Linux on the desktop? That was as far off as fusion power plants. Nothing Microsoft did was particularly elegant but you just sucked it up and dealt with it. What other choice did you have?
Well, it seems like Microsoft has really gotten itself in a bind. I think it's certainly possible for them to reverse course and right things for the company but I don't think it's plausible. Not that they're going to evaporate tomorrow, just that they've peaked and are entering a shallow and prolonged decline. Why is this? Because the very kind of corporate culture change that would allow Microsoft to get lean and agile is an affront to the power structure. I love Orwell's quote on this sort of thing: "The point is that we are all capable of believing things which we know to be untrue, and then, when we are finally proved wrong, impudently twisting the facts so as to show that we were right. Intellectually, it is possible to carry on this process for an indefinite time: the only check on it is that sooner or later a false belief bumps up against solid reality, usually on a battlefield." In this case, substitute "marketplace" for "battlefield."
The poster above nailed it when they said that Microsoft's products aren't exciting and thus the company itself is not an exciting place to work for. Why is it that Microsoft has to buy innovative companies instead of spinning off ideas from internal skunkworks? Because the corporate culture smothers innovation in the cradle.
So now we're seeing a mixture of interesting trends. Ubuntu has really made desktop Linux practical for the average Joe, I'd say 90% of the way there. That last 10% is up to the 3rd parties, bundling drivers so that a non-tech can go to the store, buy a widget, take it home and have it work right out of the box. We've got ridiculously low-priced laptops, both the OLPC and that new one from Asus. We've also got more encroachment from smart phones, PDA's, etc. These are all devices that are taking over activities that used to be wedded to PC's, big, bulky desktop machines running Windows. We've got open source office applications that can run native under Windows or Linux. They will only improve in time. Google is spitting out innovations left and right.
While making future predictions in the computer arena is a fairly silly thing to do, I'll go out on a limb and say that Microsoft is in serious trouble here. In order to overcome these dangers, the Microsoft kakosarchy will have to go away. Otherwise I think we're looking at a long, slow withering.
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
Being asked to leave at the end of the business day and being escorted off the premises immediately (only omitting the infamous kick in the butt) are two different things: One shows at least a certain amount of respect, the other doesn't.
This I've never really understood, what prevents a malicious employee to steal the customer info before turning in the notice? But in any case, even if you think this policy is necessary, one can at least be civil about it (yank computer access immediately but let the employee gather his stuff and leave voluntarily on his own instead of being "escorted" out by security goons).
I don't want to cite references, so just take this as anecdotal, but judging from comments from people who've left Google, and some other Silicon Valley commentators, I've recently been getting the impression that working at Google isn't really that great (at least, no better than MS). Supposedly there are too many people for too few profitable projects (remember where 95%+ of Google's revenue comes from) and thousands of people are, allegedly, working on projects that are going nowhere. I've also heard that since the IPO, a two-tier kind of environment has built up between the rich, old employees and the new ones.
I read somewhere that Microsoft developers write something like 1,000 lines of code a year
/. or somewhere else but I recall reading a story of a person hired at MS whose job was to revamp the shutdown/suspend/sleep features of Vista, mainly involving the menu options available to the user. After 6 months or so he left in disgust because of all the bureaucracy involved. He attended dozens of meetings, had something like 6 different groups providing input on requirements, menu design, etc. (but nobody actually responsible for resolving issues/conflicts) In his time there he ended up only writing a few hundred lines of code, and attended just about as many meetings.
I forget if it was here on
I would love to find that article again. It was very interesting reading.
First of all, the summary is a verbatim copy of the "article" (minus one sentence at the beginning and one sentence at the end). Secondly, the "article" cites no sources at all (not even so much as "this guy I know"). Finally, any idiot can see that this is just the next installment Slashdot's Two Minutes Hate of Microsoft. I'm not saying that this doesn't happen (in fact, I wouldn't doubt it), but this "article" has absolutely no substance at all.
I guess what I'm saying is that is the blueprint of a perfect Slashdot story (sadly, this is not sarcasm). I know weekends are usually slow, but this is just pathetic. What's even more amazing is that it wasn't posted by Zonk or kdawson.
There is a name for this, it's called Ghosting. I've just learned this term recently as we have had so many performing this maneuver, especially for contractors. I think the first time I ghosted was in 1998.
If you think MS R&D is bland, it's because you're just uninformed.
Take a look at this for instance - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECPOXUQB5k0
throw new NoSignatureException();
Why would you tell your soon to be former employer that you are going to go work for one of their competitors? Just say you are going to go work for a startup that you hope gets bought out by Microsoft.
I've seen employees escorted out and had to escort one out at a previous job. It's a humiliating experience even under the most benign of circumstances.
"You'll get nothing, and you'll like it!"
Unfortunately this is not always true. I worked in a computing lab at the University of Tennessee in the 90's. We had a girl who came in to do backups every evening. She put in her notice one day, served it out, still making the backups. After she left, she logged in with the still-unchanged root password and trashed our systems. And it turned out the last few "backups" she made were blank. I guess she was pissed about something; we never firgured out what.
Would you pay someone to hang out in YOUR office buidling talking to YOUR employees about how great it would be if they quiet?
Helps when you know the system! So before you give notice be prepared to get let go that day and find out what your companies policy is. If they fire immediately, find out what your local Unemployment office would consider the maximum reasonable notice (It's atleast 2 months!).
It's a unilateral violation of the trust contract between employees and the employer.
A sense of trust and loyalty between company and employer used to be common. It was a recognition that the relationship was mutually beneficial and voluntary. But that has been lost with many large companies recently. The relationship now is closer to that of master and servant.
A couple years ago I left the Siemens leviathan, for a small fifty man company. I've never been happier. Better pay, better respect, interesting work. My work takes me inside lots of other companies, and I see the same thing there. Smaller companies have happier employees doing more interesting work, while large companies are full of melancholy drones.
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
In addition, "golden handcuffs" are getting more common: Leaving your employer (even if through a no-fault layoff) often means you must immediately repay stock options, retirement fund matches, educational benefits, and bonuses from the last year or two.
And on top of all that, non-competition clauses are growing downright exploitative. A friend of mine is working under a contract stipulation that basically says "if you quit your job, you'll never work in IT in this state again."
Posters demanding to be modded a certain way should always be modded "-1, Self-Important Nitwit."
simply say to your manager on the last hour of your last day "I quit, effective immediately. I'm not coming back tomorrow, and I did not give notice because of the poor way this company responds to those who resign (e.g. "perp walk"). Goodbye and good luck."
I did this at my last job. They lied to me about giving me stock in the company and raises. Then they fired about 8 of my best friends with no notice. I figured that a company that would do that deserves no notice. But they had the last laugh. They said since I quit, i was no longer an employee and not entitled to the several thousand dollars in unused vacation that they owed me. Never work for a company whose president is a lawyer.
I guess I'll have to rethink my strategy when I leave my current company that lied to me about giving me stock and raises.
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
I've got a friend who worked at a software company for a number of years and was involved in a lot of projects. He gave his notice and said he could continue working for up to 4 weeks to help transition projects if needed. He had timed things to be leaving after wrapping up the project he was working on. Really tried to be a nice guy about it. And he was switching to a job that did software in a totally different field -- no common customers, no related technology.
The management didn't quite see it that way. He was asked to wait in a conference room while they conferred. They had security put his personal possessions into a box, turned off his access, had HR come review all his NDAs and threaten him, and then made a public announcement (over the paging system) that he was no longer an employee and was being escorted out. And then gave a 2 security guard escort to the parking lot, and followed him until he drove off the lot.
He tried to keep it all in perspective -- he was a bit shocked at how he was treated since he thought he had a good relationship with the company, and had wanted to leave on good terms. His new employer was happy to let him start early.
Funny enough two weeks later the old company called him. Could he help fix a problem a very important customer was running into? They said if he came in and helped he could pick up his final paycheck at the same time (nice veiled threat). He was cool about it. He said that his new job was taking up all this time and he didn't have any time currently, but that he might be able to offer some advice to the current staff over the phone. Oh, and they could mail him his check. Yeah, that went over like a lead balloon. Lots of threats, cursing, and such. Wish he'd recorded that. His new company gave him Group Legal as part of his benefits, so last I heard he was using that to attempt to get his final paycheck. And he's incredibly happy at his new company.
Invalid Checksum. Retrying.
My neighbor, and good friend, retired after 40 years at the post office, as a postmaster. That's a position of high trust, and he was well liked by all.
His subordinates planned for cake and ice cream his last day. Nothing doing. The postal inspectors came in that am, grabbed! his ID badge, keys, changed the safe codes and computer passwords, and sent him out into the public lobby. There they handed him his commendation letter from the local elected officials, shook his hand, and wished him good luck.
We are a weird country.
I agree with this...even with gigs that had some pretty secure stuff, never given the bum's rush out the door...actually in last gig, was asked if after being gone a week if there was any way to come back for 2 more weeks to help, which turns out, I was able to do....no ill feelings at all.
I think my question in this article...how the hell does Microsoft even know where you are going after quitting? I mean...it isn't like you have to tell them where you're going, it isn't any of their business, so you don't have to tell anything if you don't want. About the only thing I've ever mentioned was how much more $$ I'd be getting at new gig...to give them a chance to top it.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
At least for me. I did an internship at Google while doing my postgrad and after two weeks there I decided it wasn't for me. I was looking forward to finishing and a few times I was about to quit before the end of the contract. Actually, I came to really hate almost anything related to Google to the point that these days I don't even use their search. And I am not some kind of nut case, I have worked for other big names in the industry, and Google was by far the worst place, including the people, the projects, the internal mess...
I'd like to add to this. I worked there for 5 years and left a burned-out husk ;) but the company did offer huge variety. Think about it - where else would you be able to work on databases, consumer internet apps, graphics device drivers, compilers, console games, etc. All in the same company. Any area you are interested in, Microsoft has a group doing it. Plus they have a fair amount of financial stability, which does count when you have dependents.
Anyway, I'm no Microsoft apologist but if you want to work on technology, they can offer that. As for endless meetings without getting much done. Here's some news - LOTS of places are like that. My first job at a government contractor, I think I wrote one PERL script of about 20 lines in a year. There are pros and cons, you career shouldn't just be a "Microsoft sucks" knee-jerk reaction.
Its not SOP. I've been through many companies, not a single one treated me or other employees this way
In the typical over-simplification of slashdot, in only ten posts this issue has become either total trust by employers (your point of view) or an insulting perp-walk (OP and other's view). In reality it IS standard procedure in many companies to pay resigning emplyees through their notification period, but to ask them not to report to work during that time. It isn't insulting - I've had it happen to me, and I prefer it.
I've also had an employer who tried to wring every last drop of work out of me by making me work to 5:00 PM on the last day of notice. I found the second approach much more demeaning - as if I were some sort of rental human. To show how insulting that can be, they docked me two hours of pay when I left early at 3pm on my last day of work even though I was a salaried professional.