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First Use of RIPA to Demand Encryption Keys

kylehase writes "The Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act (RIPA) is being used for the first time to force an animal activist to reveal encryption keys for encrypted files she claims to have no knowledge of. According to the article, she could face up to two years if she doesn't comply."

19 of 645 comments (clear)

  1. Heh. by Renraku · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Acquire virus.

    Virus encrypts hard drive with unknown key.

    Virus forwards CP to authorities.

    Authorities bust you for having CP, for not revealing those encrypted files, AND for probably having more CP. Most likely will be averaged..say..15k is a picture..you have 200GB. The media will say that you were arrested with 100k+ pieces of child pornography.

    Five years later, turns out that it really was a virus. Sorry about that..here's your freedom again.

    --
    Job? I don't have time to get a job! Who will sit around and bitch about being broke and unemployed then?
  2. What if she doesn't actually know? by A+Pancake · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The biggest problem I see with these kinds of "give it up or else" laws is how do you account for the situations when someone genuinely doesn't know the information you are seeking? Should someones ignorance be a jailable offense?

    1. Re:What if she doesn't actually know? by pla · · Score: 3, Interesting

      what the fuck does that case have to do with this ?

      It shows an all-too-common pattern of behavior among the former-and-still bullies disposed to the job.


      completely different set of circumstances.

      You mean, "walking while non-white"? Yeah, clearly asking for it, the bastard!


      Oh i understand, you one of these moronic cop haters

      I would hardly call it "moronic" to despise the single most dangerous element of modern society. And while good ones certainly exist (perhaps even the majority of them), far, far too many bad ones exist to just trust them by default, as a whole.


      who will cry like a bitch for the cops he despises to come save him at the first sign of danger.

      Have you ever actually called the police to report a crime?

      I have (and won't bother ever again), and I've known others who have. And they do jack shit. About half the time they bother to show up. When they do, they write down random observations and you never hear from them again. But, god help you if you drive 46 in a 45 zone near the end of the month...

  3. So lemme get this straight by definate · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Are you telling me, that I could output /dev/random to a file, place it on my friends hard drive, say it contains valuable information pertaining to a case and he could go to jail or be fined for not revealing the password/key?

    This gives me an idea!

    Either way, if you need to you can get around this with TrueCrypt by taking some precautions such as:

    1) Not naming it with the default extension (.tc)
    2) Put it somewhere inconspicuous and name it appropriately
    3) Making sure that it's a hidden encrypted volume
    4) Open it through TrueCrypt and don't save the history, or passwords, or as automount, or similar

    Shit, that was a typo, I meant to type FIRST POST!!!

    --
    This is my footer. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
  4. I guess torture is will be next... oh wait... by GoatRavisher · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Historically, the legal protection against self-incrimination is directly related to the question of torture for extracting information and confessions.[citation needed] The legal shift from widespread use of torture and forced confession dates to turmoil of the late 16th and early 17th centuries in England. Anyone refusing to take the oath ex-officio (confessions or swearing of innocence, usually before hearing any charges) was taken for guilty. Suspected Puritans were pressed to take the oath and then reveal names of other Puritans. Coercion and torture were commonly employed to compel "cooperation." Puritans, who were at the time fleeing to the New World, began a practice of refusing to cooperate with interrogations. In the most famous case, John Lilburne refused, in 1637, to take the oath. His case and his call for "freeborn rights" were rallying points for reforms against forced oaths, forced self-incrimination, and other kinds of coercion. Oliver Cromwell's revolution overturned the practice and incorporated protections, in response to a popular group of English citizens known as the Levellers. The Levellers presented The Humble Petition of Many Thousands to Parliament in 1647 with thirteen demands, of which, the right against self-incrimination (in criminal cases only), was listed at number three. These protections were brought to the American shores by Puritans, and were later incorporated into the United States Constitution through its Bill of Rights.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
    --
    Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
  5. FOOLPROOF SOLUTION by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    1) Generate a file with whatever you like in it (anything believable and non-incriminating). Make sure the file's lenght matches the encrypted file.
    2) Reverse-engineer a one-time pad using this file and the encrypted file.
    3) Supply the one-time pad to authorities with instructions on how to use it.

    Ta dah!

  6. Reasonable Search & Seizure by Garridan · · Score: 4, Interesting

    1) IANAL.
    2) I am not familiar with the details of this case.


    That said, I believe that there *is* a time and place where this sort of activity counts as reasonable search & seizure. Say the cops get a warrant to search your house, and you have a safe, and you say, "gee, officer, I have *no* idea how that safe got mounted behind that picture," nobody will believe you and you'll get subpoena'd for the combo. Encryption keys shouldn't be treated any differently from a combination to a safe. If there's a reasonable suspicion for evidence to be hidden somewhere, the cops have a duty to search it.

    1. Re:Reasonable Search & Seizure by tftp · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The problem here is that the court has no proof that the information is in fact in possession of the accused. How would you like if you, or any other random person, are grabbed off the street and tortured (or jailed) until you correctly tell where Osama is hiding - which nobody knows, as it seems. Modern PCs have millions of files in them - some of your own, and some coming from random sources, like the Web, friends, guests - who knows. You can not be expected to know everything about every file, even if this is your computer - not any more than you can be held responsible for every minute scrap of paper on your property. If someone prints a PGP message on a piece of paper, makes an airplane out of it and sends it flying over your fence you probably shouldn't be jailed if you have no idea where is the key.

  7. enryption keys = keys? by MobyDisk · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Can't a court order someone to provide a physical key as part of a subpoena or a warrant? Why does law treat encryption keys differently?

  8. Better solution by Whiney+Mac+Fanboy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    A Better solution is plausible deniability.

    One password gives your uber-secret-plans-for-world-conquest, the other password gives a few hundred meg of soft porn (or whatever).

    That way, you appear to not be resisting their demands.

    --
    There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
    1. Re:Better solution by jd · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Most are. There again, the former British Home Secretary changed the UK law to allow plausible denial when he got bombarded with encrypted files, followed by demands he turn over the decryption key. Has this been tried in the US? If not, why not? Seems like if it worked once, it should work other times. Might also try claiming that handing over the key would violate the DMCA and that you can't be ordered to commit a crime. (Not sure if that's strictly the case, but unless that event has been specifically covered, it might create enough doubt that the sentence is partially or entirely suspended, or even - unlikely as it is - the case thrown out. That's not perfect but it would be better than the pre-trial misery of Kevin Mitnick.)

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    2. Re:Better solution by gweihir · · Score: 4, Interesting

      And that is exactly the problem with RIPA in the first place. The assumption is that if there's encrypted data you have the key and is liable if you can't produce it. Never mind if you don't have the key, or if there's no key to be had in the first place.

      I have some disks I wiped with crypto-generated randomness. Indistinguishable from encrypted disks without metadata (as linux dm-crypt can do for example). I cannot prove that there is no data on them. Completely impossible. Am I a criminal according to this law? Or do they need to have some proof that there is data on the disk?

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  9. Re:Fortunately in the US... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The DOJ has taken the position that giving up your encryption keys is not testimony, so it isn't protected by the 5th amendment. The issue hasn't even been resolved for forcing people to hand over paper-based personal notes (cf the Packwood case).

    So, I wouldn't be so sure that the 5th amendment protects you.

  10. TrueCrypt: Open Source and Free. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I forgot to say that TrueCrypt is open source and free, and, in my experience, perfectly reliable. There are Windows and Linux versions, and a Mac OS X version is planned.

    Don't forget to donate if you use TrueCrypt extensively.

    The present government corruption in both the U.S. and U.K. started when secret violence was authorized as a way of protecting oil investments of British and U.S. investors. Tending toward outlawing privacy is a way of continuing that corruption. Any government that can act in secret cannot be a democracy, because citizens cannot participate in things that are unknown to them.

    This is a good site to read about the corruption, and to contribute links: U.S. Government corruption TimeLines. Example: Complete 911 Timeline, 3895 events.

  11. If you read to the bottom... by niceone · · Score: 4, Interesting
    You will find that it is not clear that RIPA is actually being used - in fact it probably is not:

    It's unclear if the woman was given an official Section 49 notice or simply "invited" to hand over the data voluntarily as part of a bluff by the authorities.

    Richard Clayton, a security researcher at Cambridge University and long-time contributor to UK security policy working groups, said that only the police are authorised to issue Section 49 notices. "What seems to have happened is that the CPS (who couldn't issue a notice anyway) have written asking the person to volunteer their key," he adds.

    "Should they refuse this polite request, they are being threatened with the subsequent issuing of a notice, which might or might not require the key to be produced (it might of course just require the putting into an intelligible form of the data)."

  12. Re:solution by Zemran · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Speaking as someone that used to teach Computer Forensics to the SFO, British Customs, the USA's FBI etc (they now have their own courses). I can assure you that the first thing that was covered was disk imaging and that you should always work from the image. The original is evidence and any damage (read change) renders that evidence inadmisable. All you have to do is turn on and the OS is likely to make a change. This is taken to the degree of not using windows as the OS for imagining as windows likes to write to secondary drives when they are mounted. If you use Linux you can more easily mount as read only. It is best to make a couple of good primary images and then work from images of them rather than continually reverting to the original drive/s when you mess up so as to minimise the risk of damage and a lost case.

    --
    I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
  13. Re:solution by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I agree with your approach. I disagree, from direct observation, that the FBI are competent enough to actually do any of this. Despite their much-vaunted "Computer Crime Squad", they remain unwilling to investigate and incompetent to follow even basic backup and clean room procedures of materials they investigate. I've actually had to explain such issues to them, at length, regarding stolen computer property and verifying that software was taken with it.

    Unless they've had a complete turnover of personnel throughout the department in the last 2 years, they're not competent from top to bottom in any of the 4 state's offices I had to deal with then.

  14. They are, however, terrorists... by nicolaiplum · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It should be noticed that the particular groups of people who campaign against Huntingdon Life Sciences are terrorists:
    They use threats of force to induce fear in people at HLS;
    They have used actual violent force, at the work and at the homes, of people who work at HLS;
    They threaten anyone involved with HLS, their suppliers, etc, with the same degree of violence;
    They have placed bombs, which exploded, under the cars of people who work at HLS or are involvd with HLS;
    They claim their actions are justifiable, that they are engaged in a violent struggle, that their violence is justified because they must achieve their aims by any means possible.

    These are not nice people we are talking about. They are not the innocent defenders of the fluffy bunnies. They are aggressive, violent people and they are familiar with the tools and techniques of covert violence. Curiously they fail to mention their devotion to violence in their own article about this case.

    RIPA, like any other "anti-terrorism law", will one day be used against people who have nothing to do with terrorism.
    Today is not that day.

    --
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled"
  15. Re:TrueCrypt's method is not detectable by tinkerghost · · Score: 5, Interesting

    And how do you mount the volume? If you mount it using TrueCrypt, then this only gives you deniability if the forensics people don't know about TrueCrypt. If they do, then a decent lawyer could convince a court that there was a second key that the suspect was not divulging and get them convicted under RIPA.

    That's actually pretty much a stretch. Your 'decent' lawyer would have to give some sort of proof that there was a second partition there. Something that TrueCrypt is pretty much designed to prevent. You can easily show the existence of the first truecrypt partition - it's there in the open. You can't prove the existence of the second partition.

    I'm not sure a judge will buy 'because we didn't find what we were looking for' as a reasonable showing of proof that a second partition exists, and unfortunately, that's all the proof that exists. The formatting method and the processing method result in random data covering the entire partition block, as data is written to both the shown & hidden partitions, that data changes from random to encrypted. However the whole goal of the crypto data is to make it look random.

    So you have potentially 3 blocks of random data each constructed with the same randomizing algorythm. How exactly do you show where one begins & one ends? How do you even show that the 3rd block exists? The whole purpose of the hidden block is to make it almost impossible to prove the existence of that third block. You literally are more likely to brute force the key than you are to prove the existence of the hidden partition.