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Former Anti-Nuclear Activist Does A 180

palegray.net writes "Wired is running a story on how Gwyneth Cravens, a former nuclear power protester has changed her views on nuclear power as a viable solution to the world's energy needs. Said Cravens: 'I used to think we surely could do better. We could have more wind farms and solar. But I then learned about base-load energy, and that there are three forms of it: fossil fuels, hydro and nuclear. In the United States, we're maxed out on hydro. That leaves fossil fuels and nuclear power, and most of the fossil fuel burned is coal.'"

4 of 912 comments (clear)

  1. Fitting cartoon to the subject by SamP2 · · Score: 5, Insightful
  2. Re:And there is still the unsolved issue of... by kestasjk · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Spell it with me people: S-O-L-A-R

    It comes down to this:
    - a roof has a large surface area
    - sun ain't going to burn out any time soon
    - solar panels can't be made into bombs

    I don't understand why we are still arguing about this. Well maybe you should find out why before posting then. Do you really think solar is a viable option but we're not considering it just because we don't want to make our roofs look ugly? There's a reason no-one is using solar power on a large scale.

    sun ain't going to burn out any time soon Nuclear fuel isn't going to run out any time soon either.

    solar panels can't be made into bombs You really think nuclear power plants are needed for governments to create bombs? Japan has the largest nuclear plant in the world, but is strongly opposed to nuclear weapons. The number of nukes has decreased massively since the Cold War, so if your logic goes more plants = more bombs = bad the data completely contradicts you.
    Most types of reactors aren't useful for creating nuclear weapons; reactor grade fuel doesn't have to be enriched as much as a weapon grade fuel, because you don't want reactor fuel to be critical. Conveniently it's much harder to enrich uranium to weapons grade nuclear fuel than reactor grade fuel.

    Fuck nuclear. Oh, yeah, great "all we have to worry about is this extremely toxic waste... but that's not a problem because all we have to do is store it safely! it'll never get into the water supply! we'll always have room to store it! people will never make bombs out of it. there'll never be another hiroshima/nagasaki/chernobyl" Yeah, that's pretty much how the argument goes.. Though there's no need to mention hiroshima and nagasaki because nuclear power has nothing to do with it.

    Seriously, has the world gone stupid or something? Ok, MORE stupid. How on earth can you people convince yourself that nuclear waste is acceptable? What is wrong with you? You really think you've seen the light and that all the policy makers and scientists in the world just haven't heard of solar power? They'll slap their foreheads after reading your post and say "Wow ddoctor, why didn't I think of solar?!"

    Waste arguments aside... why the hell are we, as a civilization, pursuing nuclear technology, given nuclear annihilation is probably the #1 most likely reason we will become extinct? Because an energy crisis would cause huge conflict, possibly including nuclear war (oh what an irony that would be). I don't think the effects of global warming would decrease political tensions either.

    Most of all it's because we don't have a choice. Fossil fuels are running out and causing problems anyway. Solar, wind, geothermal, biomass, gerbils running on wheels, etc, won't scale (unless a huge breakthrough in efficiency is made). Hydroelectric power sources are limited, and can have huge environmental impact.
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  3. Base load? Feh. by goodmanj · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Base load" is a bad phrase to use for this issue (to the extent it's an issue). Today, the base load is the electrical demand that's always there, 24/7. It's met by sources like coal and oil and nuclear that can't be started or stopped slowly (or are just too expensive to allow to sit idle); we've got stuff like natural gas plants that we switch on quickly to meet the occasional peak in demand. In a renewable energy future, the problem is that occasionally, it's nighttime and the wind slackens off and suddenly you need to get a crapload of power from somewhere. You don't solve this problem with a slow base load station: this is an intermittent spike problem, you solve it with a fast-starting, cheap-to-idle supply like a gas plant. Which brings me to two points:

    1) Who cares if there are a few jobs that renewables can't fill? Use fossil fuels to make up for their shortcomings. Insisting on a 100% renewable future is overly idealistic: I say, if we can fill 95% of our energy needs with renewables, go ahead, use natural gas or whatever when you need to. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

    2) There are plenty of renewable forms of "gap-filling" energy. People have mentioned biomass burning. Here's another one: TFA quotes the "prote" as saying that "hydroelectric is maxed out." Well, it's not. It's maxed out as far as its *average* power output, because of limits on available water supply to the reservoirs. But we can get a lot more out of it if we use it to fill in the gaps left by solar and wind. Shut off the hydro plants during the day when the solar plants are running, run them twice as hard at night, and you're good to go. Need more nighttime power? Use solar electricity to run a pump to pump water *up* the dam into the reservoir in the daytime, then run the plants even harder at night. The gap-filling potential is almost unlimited.

    3) The main reason modern-day "base load" is so high is because major industrial power users (aluminum smelters, etc) shut off operations during times of peak demand, when they get charged extra for electricity: they make up for it by sucking up cheap power in off-peak hours. Change the pricing structure, so they get charged extra whenever supply dwindles. I can guarantee you that if you tell an aluminum plant "Tomorrow night's gonna be calm: if you want wind power then, you're gonna have to pay triple per kWh", they'll stop the smelters tomorrow night.

    4) There is one overall problem: I'm describing an electrical system with much more variability. Everything, from the hydro turbines and generators to the high-tension lines to the substations, has to be built to handle higher peak power draws. That costs money, but it's not a fundamental problem.

  4. Re:Unfortunately... by dloose · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Unlike a reactor, wind farms typically don't melt down leaving the whole area contaminated for miles and miles around
    I just want to be sure I read your post right: Is it your position that the "typical" nuclear reactor will catastrophically melt down at least once (can reactors melt down twice?), leaving the whole area contaminated for miles and miles? Do you live in some alternate universe in which the US Navy hasn't been safely operating a fleet of nuclear reactors for 50 years? And in this alternate universe, did Three Mile Island leak enough radiation to turn all of Pennsylvania into a mutant empire hell-bent on the destruction of all human beings lacking a third arm?

    But still, when it comes down to building one or the other in my back yard I'd take the wind farm every time if it was actually capable of producing continuous power.
    Wind isn't capable or producing continuous power, so I guess that means you'd rather have the nuclear reactor in your backyard, right?

    Since it's not we need to continue to look for a better answer. Nuclear IMHO, is not it.
    Steady as she goes, right? Nuclear may be good, but it's not perfect, so we should stick with coal, which is bad. Sounds like good logic to me.

    Add to that the lack of available storage for radio active material for several hundered years, all the while ensuring it doesn't leak, isn't stolen and used in a dirty bomb, isn't disposed of improperly, etc. The bad idea we started with just looks worse all the time.
    I just don't understand this position. Coal is the only viable alternative to nuclear at the moment. Coal is worse for the environment than nuclear at the moment. Seems like a pretty easy equation to solve to me. 2 choices: Choice A is bad, Choice B is less bad. Somehow you pick Choice A? Why? Because it's already there? Look, I don't particularly want a nuclear reactor in my back yard either. Thankfully, I haven't heard of any plans to build one there.