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Couple Busted For Shining Laser At Helicopter
coondoggie sends us to another Network World piece, this one about a couple charged with shining a green laser into the cockpit of a police helicopter. The FBI and the US attorney's office charged the California couple under a federal statute. They could end up paying a $250,000 fine and doing 20 years of jail time. "The complaint states that on November 8, 2007, at about 10:55 p.m., a green laser beam illuminated the cockpit of a Kern County Sheriff's Department helicopter, which was flying at 500 feet during routine patrol in Bakersfield, California. When the light hit the cockpit, it disoriented the Kern County Sheriff's pilot, causing pain and discomfort in his eyes for a couple of hours, the FBI said in a statement."
Part of the problem is that Laws have become so stict that it prevents exersizing justice. Is the action illegal... Yes does it deserve 20 years and 5 years of pay, no. What would be more fare would be $5,000 fine. for a first offence. These huge life killing fines are unjust for the crime that are caused forcing the person into jail (for people who are not a continued danger to society) or Paying huge sumes of money will only make the problem worse... Oh a person commited a Crime Put him in Jail for 1/3 of his life and make sure when he gets out he can't pay any bills... That'll make sure he won't comment a crime again... a $5000 fine will be enough for the person to feel it and not willing to try again, but yet will be able to live his life as a productive and law abiding citizen.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Alright, let's see here. An average divergence for a class 3B green laser is around 1.2mRad, with a (on the large side) 1.5mm aperture.
.6 ft diameter which, while probably larger than the distance between eyes, I'd have
At 500 feet (152.4m):
1.5 + (152.4 * 1.2) mm = 18.438cm
Roughly
to say people that aim at planes and helicopters have really good aim. While the heli pilot could
easily have been hurt if this laser was of the higher powers one can easily get around the web
(ie 200mw), a plane is much further up, the cockpit would merely be green, the pilot would not
be hurt. Remember that energy decreases with area. It's probably a distance squared type thing, but
my physics is rusty.
Is it really that hard to NOT shine a laser at a helicopter? I mean the thing takes up maybe 30'' of arc of 180deg of sky... Idiots.
We can probably agree that at first glance, the FBI going after this couple because the pilot of the helicopter had a headache for several hours seems like using a jackhammer to swat a fly. But consider: lasing an aircraft (putting a laser on an aircraft) for any reason is a federal offense, making it the FBI's domain. [FYI the reason it is a federal offense to begin with is that the air space over the country is not considered "state property", otherwise you could have a California Aviation Administration, a Nevada Aviation administration, etc. etc. and all of the aviation systems need to work together]. Coupled with the fact that virtually everything you can do with an aircraft can have an interstate commerce connection, making it Federal vs. state anyway)
Anyway, this has to be considered a significant offense for two reasons reasons, the first being the one they quote: disorient a pilot and you put the pilot and any one in the neighborhood of the craft in danger. Think of the response if you dropped a paint filled balloon from an overpass onto a vehicle on a busy freeway, same type of thing. The second reason is similar: because lasers are damn straight sighting mechanisms and reflect back to an observer in an electronically or optically observable manner, anything from a high powered rifle to an anti-aircraft gun or missile can be targeted on the aircraft resulting in a significantly higher probability of a hit.
What the law can't do is say "well, there's no harm to doing ___X___" if every time someone does ___X___, other people are put at risk. Which is why "driving under the influence" is a crime even if no one got hurt. Maybe the couple doesn't deserve a huge fine and twenty years in jail. But they did the crime even inadvertently and there has to be a measurable penalty as a deterrent to other idiots doing the same thing.
My question is, are we readers on slashdot so reactive to anything the government does that we tacitly give permission and headline space to all of the idiots of the world who get in trouble for doing what they ought to have known they shouldn't?
...Open Source isn't the only answer -- but it's almost always a better value than the alternatives...
From the article, they claim, "...Snow told investigating agents that she and Dooley were standing in the driveway on November 8 and "taking turns shining the laser around watching the tracers in the sky.""
If they are telling the truth, then this was a horrible accident. If they are telling a lie to protect themselves from harsher punishment, then harsher punishment they should get. Unless a third person can come forward and state that harmful intent was desired, then the judge will have to go on the sworn testimony of the two.
Bearded Dragon
At what point does it become immoral for the police to "do their job"? At what point does it become not-immoral to use deadly force to prevent them from (immorally) taking away your life or liberty?
I'm not saying that point exists in regards to marijuana, but it's something to consider. As freedoms are gradually taken away, at some point it is NOT immoral to use deadly force against the people with guns who are trying to take away your freedoms. That point lies somewhere in-between our current system and Stalin's (or Hitler's). Mind you, there's a LOT of gray area in-between. I'm just saying, it's important to remember that this point does exist, and "just doing their job" only goes so far.
Enforcement of draconian anti-marijuana laws is immoral. Not as immoral as arresting people based on their political persuasions, but immoral nonetheless.
That's the problem. Green lasers are powerful, and they are very bright (intrinsically, plus the sensitivity of our eyes to green). If you misuse them, you can hurt somebody with them. What else is new?
I own one myself, and use it as a pointer for astronomy. It works really well. I am careful where I point it. I am careful who I allow to use it.
If I deliberately pointed it at an aircraft to try to distract the pilot, that would indeed be A Bad Thing.
If an aircraft accidently happened to wander in to the path when I was showing somebody where M31 or Comet 17P/Holmes was, is it a crime? I don't think so.
...laura
If an aircraft accidently happened to wander in to the path when I was showing somebody where M31 or Comet 17P/Holmes was, is it a crime? I don't think so.
It may not be a crime, but you may still be liable for the incident. It is probably your responsibility to not illuminate aircraft. Much like it is a shooter's responsibility to make sure downrange is clear. You may set up a target in the desert and intend to shoot only at the target, but if you hit someone/something a mile downrange you are responsible.
It is a virtual certainty that if a crash results you will be sued into oblivion.
Aircraft don't suddenly appear, they move across fairly predictable paths.
If an aircraft were moving towards the area you were shining the laser, would you turn it off, or keep it shining?
Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
Well for the laser to shine into the cockpit and hit the pilot in the eye then it couldn't have been directly above them. The article says the helicopter was at 500 feet -- it would have been impossible to miss if that was anywhere near them. So it was likely quite some distance away, and over a city, so it's not an unreasonable supposition that they could neither hear nor see the helicopter.
:(
However also according to the article, one of the couple said that they had been "taking turns shining the laser around watching the tracers in the sky."
Waving a green laser around at a relatively low angle at the horizon in a populated area just for kicks seems pretty irresponsible. If you want to do that just point it at the ground nearby where you know it's safe (and makes neat patterns on the grass =D). This is a far cry from pointing at the night's sky to point out stellar objects, especially since normally astronomy is done away from a city where the lights of a police helicopter would be obvious, and you aren't waving the laser around so the odds of someone moving -into- the beam are pretty minimal (as opposed to here, where they were sweeping large swaths of sky).
I'm not sure this should be a criminal offense in this instance, but a pilot was injured and could have been blinded, and people do need to learn how to use lasers responsibly before the gov. decides to take them away from us.
The enemies of Democracy are
Have you ever been blinded by a driver who didn't dim his headlights? Now imagine something about 5 times as bright. And pointed at the underside of your car.
> $250,000 and 20 years. Definitely an issue cruel and unusual punishment if they got that, imho
Guess what, it was almost attempted murder, or at least negligent homicide (or whatever lawyers like to call being deliberately very reckless in risking someone else's life, unasked.)
Severe recklessness and/or attempted murder do carry high possible penalties, and rightly so. They could, and should, get a reduced sentence since "all's well that ends well" for a prank, but the option should still be there.
It wasn't too long ago that kids who stole a stop sign were up on murder charges because two cars biffed at the intersection it was missing from, leading to 4 deaths.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
Depends on the laser, but in general the hand-helds that are on the market are of a low enough power that the blink reflex by itself prevents any real injury. Wicked Lasers does sell some hand-helds that can be pretty dangerous at close ranges (and are horribly expensive), but working for a laser equipment integrator and having spent several years writing code to run all kinds of Class IV equipment from 1 watt UV lasers to 250 watt CO2 units and having used all kinds of smaller lasers for pointing/measurement applications, I'd be hard pressed to think of a situation where someone shining an average hand-held laser (even a green DPSS unit) directly at an aircraft would do more than very temporarily dazzle the pilot. I've unfortunately had the experience of taking some rather strong specular reflections from higher-power green units in my eyes (and no telling how many times I've been hit with IR) when equipment wasn't tagged out properly, but I've never experienced "significant pain and discomfort" and when I got my latest set of retinal photos taken earlier this year, they looked perfect.
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