Slashdot Mirror
Should Apple Give Back Replaced Disks?
theodp writes "As if having to pay $160 to replace a failed 80-GB drive wasn't bad enough, Dave Winer learned to his dismay that Apple had no intention of giving him back the disk he paid them to replace. Since it contained sensitive data like source code and account info, Dave rightly worries about what happens if the drive falls into the wrong hands. Which raises an important question: In an age of identity theft and other confidentiality concerns, is it time for Apple — and other computer manufacturers — to start following the practice of auto mechanics and give you the option of getting back disks that are replaced?"
In most states, the consumer does not have the option to have the old parts returned, they have the right to have the old parts returned. Where laws are properly enforced, it's a rather big deal if the mechanics doesn't do so.
And yes, the laws regarding computer repair should be the same.
Right there on the "customize your system" page for many (if not all) Dell Machines is the option to keep your defective disks after they have been replaced.
It costs a little extra and coming from the field support arena I know why.
Whenever you replace a part under warranty they take the old one. Not because they have use for it but to make sure you don't. Imagine an unscrupulous person who would call in "My drive is broken" then when the tech replaces the drive, he just turns around and sells the old one (which was fine anyway).
The same logically applies to other components and Dell only makes this special exemption for Hard drives because that's where the data is stored.
--= Isn't it surprising how badly I spell ?
I work as a Tier 1 agent for AppleCare and I can assure you that getting your hard drive back for a mail-in repair is an option; however, most Tier 1 agents do not know how to put this request in so it's not often done correctly. It's definitely not a standard, and if a hard drive is replaced through a mail-in repair the minimum price would be a flat-rate repair which is at least $249 but oftentimes it is more than that.
First of all, there's a problem with an awful lot of 80GB Seagate drives that are (mainly) used in Macbooks. Apple has been acknowledging it to a limited extent, and even though the laptop was out of warranty, the drive would likely been covered if enough of a stink was raised.
Secondly, if he paid for a replacement, he should have been allowed to keep the old drive. Once you're paying, you are buying the new part and the labor involved. Although, if his drive in fact has the same problem the Seagate 80s are coming up with, data snooping is not a problem... (the failed drives are, in fact, causing platter damage)
Third (and most important, perhaps), he should likely have been aware that on a Macbook the drive is a user-replaceable part. You remove the battery, unscrew the three screws that hold the memory/HD in place, and just pull the drive. Put the positioning screws on a new one, slide it in, and all is well with the world. I did a swap-out for a customer of mine two weeks ago who had a Seagate die, and the new 120 I put in cost about $100. The work took 5 minutes, most of which was spent looking for my screwdriver set!
Apple should get things clear though, and also step up and start a warranty extension for these drives. They've been pretty good about it with other hardware issues so far.
-- Josh Turiel
"2. Do not eat iPod Shuffle."
I'm not sure how true that is. Every time I've been charged a "core charge", it's on something that has expensive (and reusable) material in it that can generally be made into a re-manufactured/refurbished part. For example the metal in batteries and distributors is inherently valuable, hence they charge you what amounts to a "deposit".
I cannot count how many times I have heard this advice, yet it bears out repeating over and over and over again - do not sign ANYTHING without reading it first. This is the person's mistake, and he willingly admits to his mistake. It is a shame that it happened at an Apple store, but to be honest, it could have been anywhere, even an automotive repair shop.
The only reason automobile mechanics must give you a replaced part if you ask for it is so that you can get a second opinion afterwards, thus hoping to reduce fraud that tends to run rampant at some questionable automotive places where either through technician ignorance, negligence, or through purposeful managerial policy, a part is replace that does not need to be replaced.
Apple has a legitimate reason for keeping the drive which is described on the form given to the customer - it believes the drive can be fixed and sold. As a paying customer, you are a part of that economic system. If you do not wish to participate, that is your prerogative, and with standardization of components, you are more than welcome to find an alternative (which ironically the consumer considered and should have pursued).
I haven't lost my mind!
It is backed up on disk...somewhere...
It was worth it for me to just buy a new (and bigger) drive so I could keep the old one. I still haven't decided if the lost data is worth the effort of recovery, but at least I have that option now.
Core charges are on things like brake pads, alternators, and water pumps. Replace the worn bits, and the 'core' can be reused/rebuilt into an almost new part. Tires and batteries carry an environmental disposal fee.
Apple considers the Hard Disk Drive in a MacBook to be DIY. You will not void your warranty by replacing, upgrading or repairing whatever slides into that nice little slot. If he had such a hard time with not only the price but also the fact that they were keeping his HDD maybe he should have clicked around their support site for like 2 seconds... http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/MacBook_13inch_HardDrive_DIY.pdf ~me
If you ever need to wipe anyting like that, and you are going to send it back anyway because it is fragged...
Just EM it. Get youself a nice electro-magnet and fry it.
OR, The Cheap method: put it in your microwave for a few seconds!
That outa take care of it!
File vault can be unreliable. It has a few security problems. And it slows down performance on your computer.
I'm posting this reply AC in order to avoid the obvious liabilities.
I work for an Apple store and to the best of my knowledge, we have no recourse with regard to customer's who want their drives returned. It's just not an option. On top of that, we won't even work on computers, in or out of warranty, that have a 3rd-party hard disk installed. YMMV.
If you need to bring in a computer that has sensitive data on it, my reccomendation to you is this: back up EVERYTHING you might need from the drive and use Disk Utility to securely erase the drive. You're pretty much boned if the drive has failed. If you're really this paranoid I would reccomend not storing this type of data on your internal hard disk; at this level, you are being paranoid, no matter what you've been told/think. No one at Apple or Apple's partners has any desire/motive to recover data from your failed hard disk.
I do not personally agree with this policy; however it is what it is and this policy has stood up to legal trials before (believe me, I know).
..I had the Apple "Genius" grab a magnet from the back room and, in front of me, wipe it all over the HD. He was very cool about it, understood perfectly, and was more than happy to do it for me.
Sugapablo
I'll bet that magnet didn't do a thing.
I see no reason why this disk shouldn't be returned to the user. They purchased a replacement drive..
This is why when i do work for anyone any old parts they go in a box.
Unfortunately the article is light on details. While $160 is overpaying for an 80GB hard drive (esp. if it's only 5400 rpm), it's probably NOT overpaying if it includes the cost of installation as well as the cost of re-installing the OS. While the article certainly implies that they did, in fact, include the cost of installation, he doesn't mention if they did any other service or whether they broke the price down for him.
I have upgraded the hard drive on one of my old MacBook Pros and there's external compartment to access the drive. There's no quick-access panel to make this easy. The bottom case of the laptop has to be carefully opened. An experienced person could probably swap the drive in maybe 20 minutes, but then it also has to be tested and get an OS installed and that'll take longer.
Everyone jumps on the auto-parts law, but remember that law only applies to parts that can't be reconditioned. There are a number of car parts that can be reconditioned and when you have these replaced you generally do not get them back. But typically you'd know up front if you were getting new vs. reconditioned parts and if there's a deposit, etc. for the failed part. If you buy a new car battery -- even if you intend to replace it yourself, the parts store is generally required by law to charge you a 'core deposit' fee, which you only get back when you return the failed battery.
I'm amazed that this person writes that they felt they were being overcharged but then did not ask about the price before agreeing to let them do the service -- then made assumptions.
All that aside, I too would be very worried about my data falling in to the wrong hands. But isn't that ALL THE MORE reason why he should have asked questions resolved any doubt BEFORE agreeing to the service?
Unlike the MacBook Pro, the MacBook allows HD replacement as a "user-serviceable" part (i.e., doesn't void the warranty; one thing that keeps me from buying a MBP -the hope of eventual better MB graphics being the other...). Now, not everyone is a geek and up for installing the OS, restoring from backups (?!) etc. -but you could buy a big, fast drive for the same $ -and this was posted on Slashdot...