Google Mobile Phones Debut in Feb?

SpinelessJelly writes "It appears that Google's Android, criticised by Microsoft as vaporware, has sprung to life. Prototype devices are circulating, software developers are experimenting with the SDK and PC-based Android emulator, and there are rumours of a show-stopping debut at February's Mobile World Congress event in Barcelona. Numerous examples of the Android GUI are also starting to leak out."

Comments

Comparisons

[AKAImBatman]

While open source provides the heart of Android, its brain is a surprisingly modest ARM 9-series processor running at 200MHz.

This ignores the fact that most handset manufacturers will probably include a 3D accelerator to improve graphical performance. Google claims that Android has a "highly optimized 3D software rasterizer", but it remains to be seen if a mere 200MHz processor is capable of sustaining the necessary graphical power to provide a smooth experience.

In any case, it's likely that a 3D Accelerator could save on battery power. Application specific chips tend to be able to do more work with fewer cycles and less silicon. Which means that a phone manufacturer can make the choice of a faster CPU + lower battery life, or a slower CPU + 3D accelerator + higher battery life.

Re:Comparisons

[Archangel Michael]

"Which means that a phone manufacturer can make the choice of a faster CPU + lower battery life, or a slower CPU + 3D accelerator + higher battery life."

But what if I want a faster CPU, 3D Accelerator AND lower battery life, HUH???

Re:Comparisons

[Wiseazz]

I'm sure someone at Microsoft is working on it.

Re:Comparisons

[GamerCowboy]

The Nintendo DS uses an ARM 9 paired with an ARM 7 and it can make some pretty games run at a good clip. I'm not sure how processor-intensive mobile phone software can get but games are normally considered to be intensive applications.

Re:Comparisons

[AKAImBatman]

I've recently benchmarked EP9301 (167MHz) with Nbench, and integer performance rating was 1.8 of Pentium-90.

OpenGL ES supports floating point or fixed point math. Using floating point is going to severely reduce your performance if you don't have a Floating Point Co-Processor. And fixed point math is incredibly inaccurate, leading to a lot of graphical glitches in pre-accelerator games. (And is *still* slower than pure integer computations.)

Now remember Doom-I running on a 33 MHz i386-SX.

Doom was a 2.5D raycaster, not a true 3D engine. Quake is a better comparison. Quake did run on a 90MHz processor, but it also ran in 256 color mode with rather small textures. Model meshes consisted of a handful of polygons wrapped with a single (low-res) texture. Visibility and lighting were pre-calculated using a modified BSP Tree structure that took HOURS to generate.

Android phones lack such a luxury. Graphics will be produced real-time using high-color, high-resolution textures. Scaling, rotation, and lighting are expected to be smooth and responsive. Graphical output should be crisp with little to no blurring. (Poor rendering quality is VERY bad for on-screen text.) In these situations, a 200MHz processor becomes barely adequate. In fact, it still remains to be seen if it will be able to handle the load.

It's possible that the phone manufactures who use the 200MHz chip with no 3D accelerator will keep the graphical effects to a minimum. (Obviously, a non-rotated 2D image with GL_ORTHO is going to be WAY faster to render than a full-3D scene with rotation matrices.) But that would tend to put the phone at a disadvantage in the market. The hardware is powerful enough to demand a higher price, but doesn't appear to be a good value when stacked against other smart phones.

Re:Comparisons

[AKAImBatman]

The Nintendo DS has two ARM cores paired with one 2D/3D accelerator core and one 2D accelerator core. This gives it two separate rendering pipelines with a maximum output of 120,000 triangles per second on the top screen and a touch-sensitive 2D framebuffer on the other. That's not really comparable with a single 200MHz ARM trying to perform OpenGL ES computations.

Re:Comparisons

[cheater512]

Wont save power at all, in a phone anyway.

We are talking about lower resolution than Quake with slightly more features.
A 200mhz processor is overkill for that. 486's can do that easily.
The overhead required to power a separate chip and the interface between the two isnt worth it.

Damn Windows users thinking you need a dual core 3ghz processor to type up a document.
A 200mhz processor is freaking fast for most things including low res 3d.

Exchange integration?

[saleenS281]

Don't get me wrong, the phone and concept look cool, but if it wants to play in the business sector, exchange integration is a must. So... is there any exchange integration currently, or planned?

Re:Exchange integration?

[AKAImBatman]

is there any exchange integration currently, or planned?

Google is offering prizes to application developers who come up with cool new Android apps. Sounds like you may have stumbled upon a good candidate for submission. Give Android the best Exchange/Phone integration to date and I bet you'll make a pretty penny off of it. ;-)

Re:Exchange integration?

[njhunter]

I'm hoping the connection is a Internet standard like IMAP or POP, something that I can come to grips with should there be an issue. Dealing with Verizon and Motorola phones is a real joy, not. I'm looking forward to a proliferation of iPhones and IMAP. I'm sure Apple will have European data roaming figured out soon enough.

Re:Exchange integration?

[guisar]

How about exchange has to develop a way to work with the phone? I'm sick and tired of pandering to Microsoft's shifting "standards" being a prerequisite to do anything software related. Just why would google, which offers an open, standards based email system for companies of it's own be motivated to do this? How would such connectivity benefit google in any way shape or form? Google seems dedicated to keeping information accessible to all, not locking it in some secret proprietary format. I'm not saying Google is looking out for the consumer in every respect but this sort of requirement is nonsense.

Re:Exchange integration?

[DustoneGT]

The reason you think it needs exchange integration to 'play in the business sector' is that there are countless computer consulting firms spending ridiculous money to have M$ certifications and partnerships.

I used to work for a company that implemented microsoft servers, exchange, and even IIS regardless of the customer's actual needs. It's 'industry standard' to not let hardware control DHCP to these guys! You should see what happens when a server goes down after it's been set up the Microsoft way in a business network. Everything dies, including everybody's connection to the internet.

I think it's time to let Redmond know that we are not going to bend over and take it up the tailpipe on this one. I'd much rather see good integration with Google Aps before people waste time tinkering with Exchange integration.

Screenshot != not vapor

[techpawn]

Yes there are more solid rumors and some screen shots... But how many screen shots of DNF have we seen. I'll believe Google is in the mobile market when I have an android in my hands for the first time.

It may not be vapor but I think the February release may be rumor and marketing, maybe it's for Android(Beta)

Re:Screenshot != not vapor

[babbling]

Try the development kit.

It comes with an Android emulator, and a few of the Google applications. Included is an address book, a dummy dialling application, a working Google Maps application, a working browser... and any other applications that Android developers decide to write for it.

The only thing that is missing is the phone hardware, but we've seen pictures and videos of phone hardware running this. I'm surprised the release is so far away considering the resources available and how complete everything seems to be.

Re:Screenshot != not vapor

[enjo13]

I'm not at all... they've thus far done the easy part.

Now the individual OEM's/ODP's have to A) integrate telephony (and work out the large number of issues with integrating the Android stuff with that), B) Create the mechnicals, C) Test and certify the phones for a number of different groups (OMA, FCC, etc..), D) Negotiate distribution and availability with carriers, etc... etc... etc...

Building a phone is non-trivial and involves a LOT of 3rd parties. They're on step 1a right now. I'll be duly impressed if they get a phone out before November of 2008.

no-one will buy them when they come out

[petes_PoV]

in case the price drops $200 a couple of months later.

Designs

[jav1231]

I think the first pic they show there has poor design, though. Not that that's Google's fault but Apple has shown that the screen is star and therefore should dominate the landscape. The new Touch and even the Palm Centro does this too and many are following. For me, any phone where the keyboard and other buttons make up more than say 20% of the face simply look bad.

Re:Designs

[blake1]

Android is a platform, not a device.

Re:Designs

[protobion]

RTFA. Its a prototype. HTC put it together. Take a look at other phones by HTC (people who manufacture the O2 XDA phones). They currently come with Windows Mobile on them. It will be great to have Android on them.

Re:Designs

[sk8dork]

you must not have even watched one of the earliest and best android videos yet, much less actually read about it... in the video they explain how the platform will be able to span a range of hardware devices from relatively low end and inexpensive, like the one you're complaining about, to higher end and more expensive with touch screens that span the whole face of the device... check the video out here.

Re:Designs

[jav1231]

All good points, I should have RTFA. OTOH, why even showcase it running on such an ugly device?

Microsoft, Schmicrosoft...

[Cleon]

Microsoft can't be happy about this; they're already pissed off that Windows CE doesn't dominate the cell phone market the way Windows does for desktops.

But Apple is going to be the ones crapping their pants; they've bet the farm on the iPhone, and major competition coming from Google won't be making them happy.

If Apple's smart, they'll make the next generation iPhone fully able to run and support Google Phone applications--that'll really make some folks in Redmond change their underwear.

Re:Microsoft, Schmicrosoft...

[shagoth]

Unless you expect snazzy features like push email and Exchange support from Apple. That's not happened so far and no word that it will. Of course, that could all change in 2 weeks at iPodCaseWorld or whatever Apple's show in SF is called today.

Re:Microsoft, Schmicrosoft...

[Sancho]

Apple really has little to fear from Google. Google has a long history of making good products--even products superior to what's out there--but failing to grab the marketshare. The only place where they're absolutely on top is with search.

Android looks like a really neat platform, but it's a geek platform. It won't have the enterprisey features that business people want (primarily Exchange integration) and from the looks of things, it doesn't have the sleek design that has captured the hip market (like the iPhone has.) It will almost certainly be priced comparably to other smart phones, with nothing to set it apart for the average customer.

I really hope that I'll be proven wrong, but so far, I just don't see anything that makes Android pop.

I'm pumped!

[Nerdposeur]

This article doesn't say much of anything new - it mostly uses screen shots and explanations that the folks at Google put in their original announcement videos.

That said, I'm personally very pumped about getting an Android phone. I hear people dissing Google here a lot, but everything that I've used that is made by Google works great - Gmail, Picassa, Google Earth, Google Maps, and the search engine itself. If these guys make something, I pretty much believe it will be cool.

Up till now, I've had very little interest in a "smart phone" - the ones I've had my hands on are clunky, and that includes Blackberries. But if I can get a phone with Android next time my contract is up, I just might do it. If nothing else, the possibility of having features that aren't controlled by the carrier is awesome. And announcements like Android seem to be pressuring carriers to go in that direction, even though Android doesn't specifically prohibit lockdown.

Down with carrier control! Up with open access! :)

All in All

[Ev!LOnE]

Well, I feel that the plus point of Android is that it is open source. So that should allow future developments like GPS, motion sensing API, etc. All it needs is a bunch of enthusiastic developers(which is actually the case since Google is floating the thing). I dont think that 200Mhz processor will be a deterrent, Android should sooner or later support better processors as well. Only better hardware needs to be thrown into it. Now what we need to know is how it affects the rest of market, Or if it can compete and make users believe that it is better than symbian or windows mobile. Whatever happens, we end users will hopefully get better products.

Easy to develop ...

[lakshmanok]

I tried Android out -- we banged out a personalized weather application (even without a GPS chip, Android is capable of triangulating satellites to get within 300m of the user's position, which is sufficient for weather applications). The whole process took under an hour and was easy as pie.. So, no it's not vaporware. The hardware may be still be a few months away, but the software is enough to create real-world, practical applications.

Re:Designs - RTFA

[slashbaby]

The FA has pictures of hardware that is cobbled together so the engineers have something to work on. It is by no means what it will look like in the end. From the FA:

And yes, this big drab-looking device is dog ugly - but this isn't a slick made-for-media concept phone, it's merely a functional prototype on which the developers and engineers can tinker (and we all know that as rule, they're not big on elegant design).

RTFA!!

Re:Android on Existing phones

[vhogemann]

That depends,

If HTC re-use some of its existing hardware to deploy some Android phones, maybe... I've seem some threads at xda-developers and MoDaCo with people talking about flashing their phones with alternative WinMo versions.

My guess is: it probably will be possible... but HTC won't support it. Another possibility is that Android might appear as an paid upgrade, but it's very unlikely.

Mind you that you DON'T need to wipe Windows Mobile to try Linux on your smartphone, there are some bootloaders out there that can boot Linux straight from the expansion card... so we might be able to try Android before flashing it definitely into the phone.

I have a HTC s710 BTW, HTC make some cool phones indeed.

Neo1973/OpenMoko and Android

[jag7720]

Why doesn't Google team up with OpenMoKo and Qtopia and really get something done.

Google's phone sounds awesome, but this is the kind of thing that hinders the "open phone" market. Too many splinters.