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Windows Home Server Corrupts Files

Posted by timothy on from the handy-for-plausible-deniability dept.

crustymonkey points out a ComputerWorld article which says that "Microsoft Corp. has warned Windows Home Server users not to edit files stored on their backup systems with several of its programs, including Vista Photo Gallery and Office's OneNote and Outlook, as well as files generated by popular finance software such as Quicken and QuickBooks." Crustymonkey asks Don't back up your files to Windows Home Server, as recommended by Microsoft themselves? I'm not exactly sure what the point is in having a home server if you can't back up files on it."

30 of 459 comments (clear)

  1. Obvious Answer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "I'm not exactly what the point is in having a home server if you can't back up files on it."

    Profit

    1. Re:Obvious Answer by sm62704 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Dude, you have to spell it out or you'll be modded to oblivion. Here's how this thing works, now pay attention.

      "I'm not exactly what the point is in having a home server if you can't back up files on it."

      1. go to store
      2. buy MS open server
      3. Install files
      4. Back up files
      5. ????????
      6. PROFIT!

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
    2. Re:Obvious Answer by snowraver1 · · Score: 5, Funny

      It's a feature.

      --
      Copyright 2010. All rights reserved. This comment may not be copied in any way including, but not limited to caching.
  2. Vista users are safe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    They can't copy files to anywhere...

  3. One wonders...... by 8127972 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    .... If there's a user friendly alternative to Windows server for Joe Enduser? I run a Debian box with Samba on a computer that does hardware RAID 1 for my file sharing needs (I also have an SCP turned on so I can shove files onto it from outside my network too). But that's not something that I can suggest to my friends and family. So what can I suggest to them that is as "user friendly" as Windows Server?

    --
    This is my opinion. To make sure you don't steal it, it's covered by the DMCA.
    1. Re:One wonders...... by sm62704 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you need "user friendly" you shouldn't be running a server.

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
    2. Re:One wonders...... by sumdumass · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Dood, slow down.

      The original parent comment was about something (an alternative) "point and click easy" like the WHS. Do you really expect someone who relies on the "I click enough buttons and it works so it must be right" model instead of the "i set it up correctly so it must work" model to actually know about things like VNC, SSH tunnels or a router?

      I don't mean to dog you and I'm definately not trying to troll you, but we really are dealing with people doing things they really have no idea/clue about. I would probably suggest that they have no business doing it without investing a little more time and effort in learning something about it but they read the side of a box and think it is a good idea. Making them learn something isn't my call though, Microsoft seems to be good at making idiots feel smart. Hang around some of the novice windows users who think they are smart, you will see exactly what I'm talking about when one of them explains to you the difference between a BCC and CC when dealing with email and then tells you he found out because of a popup in office and vista or some shit like that. When you realize their first computer was a windows 95 or 98 box almost 10 years ago and they are just finding this out, you will understand their needs a little more.

      If you don't know anyone like that, start doing repair work for random people. Put an add in the paper or something and do a couple dozen repairs out of your house. Or I can give you a number of other examples of the types of people we/you are dealing with (point and clickers). Most of them are fresh too. Like just recently, a customer who thought his CDROM was broke because he knocked his tower off the desktop and it wouldn't close all the way. So he decided to remove it, take it apart and oil the motors and gears and after putting it back in, when he started the computer up, it said "insert system disk". 9:30 at night, I get the call explaining every thing to me and attempted to trouble shoot is over the phone, I had him reconfirm the connections for the IDE cables on both the HD and CDROM. Then I had him disconnect the CDROM, Sure enough, the HD worked and the computer loaded. 10:15pm, I get another call from the same customer, it is doing it again. How am I supposed to know he plugged the CDROM that he tore apart and we determined was causing the problem back in after I hung up. 35 minutes of checking bios settings, rechecking the cables and troubleshooting later, he suggest putting a the XP system CD in the computer and starting it with that in it. I asked if he had another CDROM because last I worked on his system, he only had one. He told me he fixed the CDROM that we determined was causing the exact same problem an hour ago and put it back in. He refused to associate the same problem with the same device. And then when I told him the CDROM was bad, unplug it and see what happens, He insisted that he had fixed it (he took the CDROM apart again) and the door closed all the way now so nothing was wrong with it.

      Finally, I got his wife on the phone and told her the story as I told you, she said if it is doing the same thing, then if I unplug the CDROM, the computer will start. I said that was the plan but I couldn't get her husband to try it because he claims he "fixed the CDROM" and "nothing was wrong with it because he fixed it. So she ended up unplugging the CDROM and sure enough, it worked sans the CDROM. She brought it in the next day, we swapped the drive out and all has been fine since. I asked her to make sure he didn't call me for support late at night again unless he was going to listen to what I had to say.

  4. Correction by Rolgar · · Score: 5, Funny

    Microsoft Home Server Converts Files to a Secure Format for Your Security.

    Microsoft will gladly sell you a one use un-convert license when you need to see the data.

  5. Curious... by geminidomino · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The blurb says that it corrupts files on the backup when you try to edit them...

    Isn't part of the point of a backup that you DON'T edit the backup media?

    I can look at this two ways... MS didn't test this enough because it didn't occur to them someone might do something so ridiculous...

    OR...

    Not only did MS create the misfeature that is editing backups, but they screwed it up too...

    Am I still feeling charitable from the holiays? Hmm...

    1. Re:Curious... by UnknowingFool · · Score: 5, Informative

      From what I understand from the article is that if you save certain file types to a Home Server for backup purposes from a workstation, you can corrupt them if you edit the original files and try to back them up onto the server again. Well that defeats the whole purpose of having a backup system. Like photos for example. If I backup all my photos onto the Home Server, then I decide to change the contrast on a few of them on my everyday PC, I can corrupt the ones I've saved on the Home Server if I save over the original backups. Then if I decide I need space on my PC and delete the ones saved there, my edited photos are inaccessible if I didn't save them anywhere else.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    2. Re:Curious... by phuul · · Score: 5, Informative

      Well since the article NEVER mentions backup I'm trying to figure out why the blurb and everyone is going on about backups being corrupted. What is actually happening is that there is a bug in WHS folder sharing. If you edit files with particular programs that exist on a WHS share the files will be corrupted.

      Here is the KB article http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/946676/en-us?spid=12624

      It too doesn't mention using WHS to backup but does say that you should backup the possible affected files before storing them on WHS.

  6. Sensationalist Headlines? Not this time... by FredFredrickson · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So I read TFA thinking, so there's a glitch when windows has virus X on wednesdays only, and only in regions that have the chinese language pack, and only on systems with 64-bit version installed with a sound blaster driver installed.

    But for the first time ever, slashdot's title isn't sensationalist. Microsoft simply states, yeah, for no apparent reason, files are getting corrupt using our operating system.

    Jeebus F'n H Chroist! You had one job to do, and you screwed it up royally.

    It's one thing when some obscure feature doesn't work correctly. It's another thing when a fundamental operation of your software hasn't worked for A YEAR since it came out.

    IT'S AN OPERATING SYSTEM. Your job is to interface the hardware with the user and software.

    *sigh* Bring on the "my linux-distro of choice doesn't do that, that makes me right all along" comments.

    --
    Belief? Hope? Preference?The Existential Vortex
  7. This is version 1.0 people by Anita+Coney · · Score: 4, Funny

    Everyone knows you have to wait until at least version 3.1 to get anything useful out of Microsoft.

    --
    If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
  8. Recommended solution by stevenp · · Score: 5, Funny

    According to the MS knowledge base entry:

    "Make sure that you have a backup copy of any important program files before you store these files on a system that is running Windows Home Server."

    In other words, use something else to backup the files first if you intend to backup them with Windows Home Server ;-)

  9. Re:A Good DVD Writer For Most People by schnikies79 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A dvd-writer isn't feasible to backup nearly 300gb.

    --
    Gone!
  10. Ready to use boxes by DrYak · · Score: 4, Informative

    I run a Debian box with Samba on a computer

    Similar setup here, too.
    In fact, running a Linux + Samba + SSH/SFTP/SCP + RAID ( + Optionally NFS ) seems the best solution available.

    But that's not something that I can suggest to my friends and family

    You can't suggest them to install and configure Debian all by themselves.

    BUT

    There are virtually hundred of "network enclosure" : Small empty external cases, with a 1Gbps ethernet and a small ARM chip running Linux+Samba+Apache, almost ready to use, you only need to buy disks and mount them in (several computer part shop even propose you to sell a pre-assembled such solution).

    Linksys, D-Link and Netgear are a few of the constructor whose name jump to my mind right now, but there are virtually hundreds of them.

    The best part is :
    - These box have Linux pre-installed on their flash memory. So no difficult configuration is required for the average users. Maybe just help them to configure secure access and configure the router if they also want to have access to the files from outside home. The computer part shop often can do the hard-drive mounting and deliver a ready-to-use product.
    - Almost any of those box runs Linux, so their firmware is modifiable and you can find several guides explaining how to run external software or even installing additional software into the firmware. MLDonkey is such an open source eD2K / Bittorrent / etc. client which is also precompiled for embed Linux.
    Not only the enclosure is useful for average user, it may be useful for lazy power-users who don't want to assemble their own server or prefer silent and energy efficient servers.
    - A lot of those boxes have USB2 "Host" connectors, so you can connect additional HDD to the server. But as it is Linux, a lot of different and interesting usage can be found be power users like plugins webcams, or use the box as a print server in addition to a file server.

    So yes, you can't easily tell your friends to *install* Debian all by themselves, but you can get them to buy an enclosure with Linux pre-installed. (And if they upgrade their box to a newer one, you can recycle the old one into some fun project thanks to Linux' openness and available USB2 connectors).
    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  11. Why is everything across the network "special?" by dpbsmith · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Having come from a DECNet background, when I first encountered PC networking I was completely flummoxed by the situation.

    MS-DOS and Windows users seem to take it for granted that a file that is across the network is accessed via different APIs, different user interfaces, and has generally different properties from files that are stored locally. In the MS-DOS days they were always mumbling about The Redirector. Why does a file need to be REdirected across the network? Why isn't it just directed, the way it would be directed to a disk volume or a floppy or what have you?

    It isn't so long ago that most Windows programs couldn't even reference cross-network files in a straightforward way in a file open dialog. You first had to assign a "drive letter" and "map a network drive." (And, of course, all references to that file would break if you ever assigned the remote directory to a different drive letter).

    And when they finally got around to fixing it in the OS, it only fixed it for new programs that were written to some new API. Existing programs, even things like Visual C++ utilities, continued to go through the mapping tapdance, because apparently the existing OS file dialog routines weren't updated to do things the new way.

    The assumption that files across the network are totally differents sorts of thing from local files appeared to be so ingrained in the Windows culture that Windows people don't even understand why it is a criticism of Windows to mention this. They think it has to be that way, because, well, they're across the network. As if there were some physical property of 100-base-T cables that made them intrinsically different from SATA cables.

    --

    "How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!

    1. Re:Why is everything across the network "special?" by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 5, Insightful

      MS-DOS and Windows users seem to take it for granted that a file that is across the network is accessed via different APIs,

      I can't speak for MS-DOS (are there any MS-DOS users left?), in Windows you don't use a different API for a network files. Any differences are taken care of far below the application level.

      different user interfaces,

      Really? On my Windows machine, networked files show up in Windows Explorer just like local files. If anything, it's not different *enough*-- i.e. it would be nice to have a mark in the icon to tell me if a file is on a network drive, especially when I'm on unreliable wifi networks.

      It isn't so long ago that most Windows programs couldn't even reference cross-network files in a straightforward way in a file open dialog. You first had to assign a "drive letter" and "map a network drive."

      You never *had* to do that. Well, ok, maybe pre-95 versions of Windows. But Windows 95 would work just fine if you typed \\network\path into an Open dialog. I did that just a couple years ago at a hospital I was working at with some ancient machines still in use.

      Of course you have the option to map a drive letter if you want, and there may be some buggy applications that didn't work unless they had a drive letter to work with, but you can't blame Microsoft for buggy third party apps.

      The assumption that files across the network are totally differents sorts of thing from local files appeared to be so ingrained in the Windows culture that Windows people don't even understand why it is a criticism of Windows to mention this.

      Maybe they just think you're crazy for "criticizing" Windows for something you basically made-up.

      I'm not a huge Microsoft fan, but most of your post is just plain wrong. I know this is Slashdot and thus you were +5 Insightful, but please make some effort to at least be a little accurate next time you post. Let's reduce the amount of bullcrap here, not increase it.

      --
      Comment of the year
  12. Re:What happened to the Best Free Games Story? by c_forq · · Score: 5, Funny

    How do you know I'm not just twice as likely to defend my home from a friend or family member?

    --
    Computers allow humans to make mistakes at the fastest speeds known, with the possible exception of tequila and handguns
  13. It is situations like this... by gillbates · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Which do well to explain the reason why, when a $1000 PC is faster than a $1,000,000 mainframe, that businesses still buy the mainframe. And then they stock the washrooms with single-ply toilet paper to cut costs.

    Microsoft has made a lot of noise about being "Enterprise class" software, and having "Reliable" servers, but when things like this happen, it just goes to show that Microsoft won't ever be able to touch big iron:

    • Why wasn't this caught by QA? And it has been out for a full year before they figured out that it was a problem? Clearly, Microsoft, even after 30 years in the industry, doesn't know much about software engineering. This is the same company that took 5 years to produce Vista.
    • The fact that Microsoft is the most virus-prone vendor in the industry doesn't reflect well on it as a company. But in light of issues like this, it seems that their persistent problems with viruses - dominating the field for the past decade - has more to do with their lack of design than their popularity.
    • Microsoft has a patch mentality which is totally abhorrent to those of us in the high-availability industry. Sysadmins simply can't "just patch" every time Microsoft discovers a hole in their operating system. It takes weeks - if not months - of testing before a business can roll out a new patch, during which time, the whole business is at risk. This is a risk which is simply not present on mainframe and UNIX systems.

    The next time I hear anyone use the term "enterprise class" and Microsoft in the same sentence, I'm simply going to refer them to this bug. Totally unacceptable - even for a gaming OS.

    --
    The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
  14. MOD THIS DOWN!!!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I mean really, after the first 6143569056076952107294386875907695350 times maybe it was worthy of a chuckle, but to keep on modding up this joke suggests some form of psychosis.

    Wait, I'll put this in a way that you mods can understand:

    1. go to slashdot
    2. find a story
    3. find a comment on that story
    4. post a tired, old, lame-ass joke for the 9 billionth time
    5. ???????
    6. GET MODDED UP!

    Ok, I followed the silly meme, where's my +5 Funny?

    1. Re:MOD THIS DOWN!!!!!! by sumdumass · · Score: 4, Funny

      I always find these joke hilarious, but I have to tell you, yours set them apart. I like the way you went on the imitation rant and then worked into it. And the originality of making the ??????? step number 5 instead of 3, It made me spit my coffee through my nose. Now I have blister where boogers used to be and coffee flavored boogers in my keyboard. Maybe the profit is in selling sinus burn cream.

    2. Re:MOD THIS DOWN!!!!!! by ettlz · · Score: 4, Funny

      That the GP got to "Score:5, Funny" says everything anyone ever need know about (a) the robustness of the Slashdot moderation system; and (b) the high level of abstraction inherent in the collective sense of humour of the Slashdot community (we've nigh-on perfected the art of meta-humour).

      And as long as I can also get the odd "Score:5, Funny" with cheap puns and innuendo, I shall waste time here.

  15. Re:What happened to the Best Free Games Story? by deanoaz · · Score: 4, Informative

    >>> Except in reality you are twice as likely to shoot a friend or family member than defend your home with your home defense gun.

    False conclusion based on faulty data sampling.

    A statistic does not get created unless there is a report. Cases where someone gets shot almost always generate a report. Cases where the homeowner's possession of a gun thwarts the crime and nobody gets shot are less likely to be reported.

    Guns in the home are not high on the list of dangerous objects for average Americans. Check it out. The fact that drug dealers, thieves, and gang members often shoot their family members and 'friends' is used to make it sound like average people are not capable of defending themselves without endangering their families. It is a false impression intentionally created by lumping repeat criminal offenders in with the general population's statistics in these cases.

    --
    If 'the people' in Amendment 2 are 'the state' then Amendments 1, 2, 4, 9, and 10 benefit the state, not you.
  16. Sure they can! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    It only takes 131+ years to copy 168 MB of pictures, what are you complaining about?

  17. Queue the next Apple commercial by Like2Byte · · Score: 4, Funny

    Apple Guy: Hey, PC. Whatcha doing?
    PC Guy: Backing up my files.
    AG: Wow. That's a lot of stuff - sure you can handle it all?
    PC: Oh, sure. I'm using Vista Home Server. It allows me to back up my files by placing them securely in here.
    AG: Whoa! What's the noise!?
    PC: It's my backup appliance!
    AG: Dude! That's a shredder!
    PC: What!? Can't hear you!
    AG:

  18. Fun with math - vs. Commodore 64 by Weaselmancer · · Score: 5, Funny

    Ok, 168 MB is 168*1024*1024 = 176,160,768 bytes.

    A Commodore 64's floppy disk, the 1541 runs at 300 baud. So that's 176160768/300 = 587203 seconds for an equivalent copy. That's 9786 minutes, or 163.1 hours. That's 6.796 days.

    The same copy will take Vista 131 years. That's 47815 days.

    That means that a Commodore 64 w. 1541 drive is roughly 47815/6.796 = 7036 times faster than Windows Vista.

    Now, for a human number. An average typist gets about 50-70 wpm according to wiki. So we'll call the average 60wpm. Seems reasonable. That's 60*5 = 300 characters per minute. Since a C64 moves data at 300 characters per second, we can say that a human typist is 60 times slower than the Commodore 64. That means that a human typist is 7036/60 = 117 times faster than a Vista file copy.

    Impressive!

    --
    Weaselmancer
    rediculous.
  19. Re:Lies, damned lies, and statistics. by FictionPimp · · Score: 5, Funny

    I am pro gun ownership. I think this whole, "hold at gun point" thing is stupid. I'm sorry, I've always been taught that you only draw your weapon to do one thing, fire it.

    I have a few hand guns. Most are locked up safely. I have no kids so I keep on in a desk next to my bed, ready to be loaded. Just slide in the clip, and I'm good to go. We have had a few breakins lately in my area. If you break in, I will not be holding you for the police. I am in my right to kill, and I will kill. To hold at gunpoint is to risk that you might have a gun, or a friend I did not notice. It is stupid and very unsafe. I have a wife to protect, and property to protect. I really think anyone who holds at gunpoint had no intent of using the weapon in the first place. This is bad gun ownership.

    You should only draw your weapon when you have identified a target and intend to fire on it. Hesitation might get you killed. The only exception might be in the case of military and police.

  20. Re:Yes, profit. Mod parent up. by man_of_mr_e · · Score: 4, Informative

    Your question is based on a flawed predicate.

    The purpose of WHS is not ONLY to be file server. That's one purpose, and as long as you don't edit the file on the server, you're ok.

    Another purpose is to create automated remote backup of all computers on the network, basically in such a way that you can create a new image via a restore CD, but also in a way that doesn't duplicate files between images. You can also access individual files in the backup. It's like a hybrid image/file backup with duplicate file consolidation. It's pretty efficient.

    Another purpose is a remote access gateway to allow you to log in via terminal services to any computer in your network.

    Another purpose is to provide a web based remote access to your files.

    WHS is a very useful product, and this is an unfortunate bug, but it doesn't mitigate its entire existence.

    --
    If you need web hosting, you could do worse than here
  21. Sharing was the focus of WHS, not backup. by Mage... · · Score: 5, Informative
    First off, the problem is:

    You are editing a file that is saved directly to a shared folder on WHS, which WHS accepts and gives the A-OK signal to your software, then later has a problem writing the file, and tells you about it, with no chance of recovering the file at that time. Since this can happen after you have exited your software, you have no way of recovering the file.

    The problem is not:

    • You make backup files, then try to edit them directly on the WHS share folder.
    • Your backup files get corrupted.
    • You are doing something that WHS was not intended for.

    The third one is the trickiest. See, if you go to the current WHS Discover site (click Help and How-To's) you will see that the big thing is Remote Access, Media Sharing, and Computer Backup. This would lead people to believe that any other use, is not what it was meant for, and when something goes wrong, you should have known better.

    But, one only needs to look back at previous pages for WHS to see that Sharing was a central feature. Yes, full sharing, not just Media Sharing. Even the Overview of that page focuses on sharing first, and backup (protection) was third. The first overview item was Sharing, and that is simply what this problem is about, shared folders. Either for your own use as a networked server, or to share with other users.

    Now, if you go to Eric Bott's blog, you will see the explanation that the largest factor is "a home server is under extreme load." Well, I'm sorry, but if the touted role, even at the beginning and not right now, was acting as a share folder to save your stuff to, then by damn it better do that. If the server gets loaded down, it should not pretend it got the file and tell you later that it didn't, it should just either not respond (and your software would have to let you know it couldn't do it) or it should give an error response (your software's problem now).

    Honestly, this product was marketed as a home server for storing and sharing your files, with acting as a backup server making 3rd on the list of features. Now, they want to change that and say that it is for backup first, file sharing from special locations and under special conditions, and not really for file storage.

    --
    Cause you can't get a tan from an amber monitor. If you do, there is something horribly wrong.