Slashdot Mirror


RIAA Not Suing Over CD Ripping, Still Calling Rips 'Unauthorized'

An Engadget article notes that the Washington Post RIAA article we discussed earlier today may have been poorly phrased. The original article implied that the Association's suit stemmed from the music ripping. As it actually stands the defendant isn't being sued over CD ripping, but for placing files in a shared directory. Engadget notes that the difference here is that the RIAA is deliberately describing ripped MP3 backups as 'unauthorized copies' ... "something it's been doing quietly for a while, but now it looks like the gloves are off. While there's a pretty good argument for the legality of ripping under the market factor of fair use, it's never actually been ruled as such by a judge -- so paradoxically, the RIAA might be shooting itself in the foot here."

22 of 175 comments (clear)

  1. Shooting in foot by Matt867 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "so paradoxically, the RIAA might be shooting itself in the foot here." Somehow or another the bullet will wind up in the foot of a consumer.

    1. Re:Shooting in foot by voisine · · Score: 3, Informative

      I'm not sure they're shooting anything. Ripping a CD *is* unauthorized by the copyright holder. Fortunately, copyright law does not require authorization for such things.

  2. imagine that by larry+bagina · · Score: 5, Informative

    Comment I posted in a firehose story (which took all of 30 seconds to realize the summary was simplistic and wrong):

    More Info

    here and here

    Looks like the person in question was using Kazaa, which listed his mp3 files, although they weren't actually shared (uhh ... does kazaa publish them if they're not shared?) Media Sentry found them (but didn't actually download them?). He represented himself and lost big time.

    --
    Do you even lift?

    These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    1. Re:imagine that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Misleading stories are no stranger to slashdot of course.

      The amazing thing is that we actually have a new story to correct the old?! In nearly 10 years I don't think I've ever seen something so close to an actual retraction on slashdot!

  3. Nope, try again... by pla · · Score: 5, Informative

    As it actually stands the defendant isn't being sued over CD ripping, but for 'old-fashioned' song downloading.

    Still wrong.

    They sued him over uploading, or at least, having the files in question in his Kazaa shared folder.

    Yes, they may have "taken the gloves off" regarding their terminology, but this case has the exact same underlying "offense" as the thousands of other RIAA lawsuits we've heard about in the past few years.

  4. The RIAA is correct for once! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    These copies are unauthorized!

    However, these copies are not illegal.

    Under fair use, you are allowed to make copies for your personal use, and it is perfectly legal.

    In this case, "unauthorized" is used in the sense of "Britney Spears Unauthorized Biography" instead of "Britney Spears Authorized Biography". Both are perfectly legal.

  5. Of course it's unauthorized by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But is it illegal?

  6. Well, technically they *are* unauthorized by crankyspice · · Score: 4, Informative
    I think, if a judge were ever to rule on the specific question of song ripping, it would be held as a fair use, extending the thinking in RIAA v. Diamond Multimedia (which extended the Audio Home Recording Act to 'space shifting' a track -- copying it from a computer to a handheld, for instance. http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=9th&navby=case&no=9856727

    Just because something has a fair use defense, however, does not mean it was authorized. In fact, asserting a fair use defense is a tacit acknowledgement that the copyright holder did not authorize the use, hence the need to rely on the fair use doctrine.

    Finally, even if ripping tracks is a fair use (likely), putting them online for someone else (especially if that someone else is not within the sphere of your private household, going by the text of the AHRA and the legislative record behind it) to download is certainly unauthorized and (per every court that's looked at it, e.g., Napster, Grokster, Aimster, etc) not within the fair use doctrine.

    --
    geek. lawyer.
  7. Still not accurate by harlows_monkeys · · Score: 4, Informative
    What the RIAA said in their court filing was that copies that are ripped and placed in a shared folder are unauthorized copies. They did not say anything about copies that are ripped but not shared.

    This is significant because fair use depends on the purpose of the copying. Copying to put on your portable player would be a totally different situation under a fair use analysis than copying to give away to strangers on the internet.

    At least in this case, they aren't trying to argue that all ripping is illegal--just this defendant's ripping. (And in other cases, they have said that ripping for your portable player is OK).

    I believe that there are similar considerations if a defense under the Audio Home Recording Act, rather than under fair use is considered. The nature of the defendant and the reason for ripping would be relevant as to whether that covers him.

  8. They're right. by gowen · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They're not authorised by the copyright holder.
    Fortunately, you don't need their authorisation, so that's OK.

    --
    Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
  9. They are plainly unauthorized copies, no trickery by Chuck+Chunder · · Score: 4, Informative

    Did the person copying them have authorization? No.

    Fortunately for most of us you don't need authorization for fair use purposes as you have the right to make such copies (depends on the law where you are of course).

    However if you are using them for purposes that aren't covered by fair use then the fact they are unauthorized is very relevant as your copying was not permitted by right.

    The RIAA aren't being tricky here, they are stating the plain truth.

    --
    Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
  10. Re:/. retraction? by ScrewMaster · · Score: 4, Informative

    If the RIAA can get people to think rips are "unathorized" copies they will be able to disregard fair play soon.

    "Fair use" I think you mean. They'll have a hard time convincing consumers that it is morally wrong to rip their discs: ripping is a pretty entrenched idea now. People like me that started out on vinyl "ripping" to reel-to-reel will never accept there's a damned thing wrong with that. The only hope they have is getting another rewrite of copyright law pushed through Congress, which is far more likely.

    More and more, I see the RIAA as a major league loose cannon, with repercussions for the studios that I have to believe they haven't fully considered. I know the studios are just biding their time, waiting to see just how much the RIAA can win for them in terms of legal precedent, copyright modifications, and alterations in public attitude towards copyright infringement. Still, I can't help but think this is going to be self-defeating in the long run. I haven't bought any big studio music in twenty five years, and I don't plan to start. They've already lost me as customer, permanently. If they keep going the way they're going (lawsuits, threats and intimidation, high prices, poor quality) they're going to lose more.

    --
    The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  11. A sad sign of the times... by mangu · · Score: 4, Interesting

    When "unauthorized" is automatically equated to "illegal" we have a problem in our society. Are we required to ask for authorization from someone to do everything now?

    1. Re:A sad sign of the times... by CajunArson · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Maybe people on Slashdot have a problem when they equate "unauthorized" with "illegal" which they have done countless times in order to make the RIAA look bad. The RIAA is arguing in court filings that it does not "authorize" ripping of CD's.... which is 100% correct... it does NOT authorize you to rip from a CD. However, that is also completely meaningless as well. If I buy a car, the car maker does not "authorize" me to drive the car, paint the car, put gas in the car, etc. etc. etc. So what, authorization is completely irrelevant.

      --
      AntiFA: An abbreviation for Anti First Amendment.
  12. Certainly it's unauthorized ... by Frater+219 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I am "unauthorized" to walk around town or drink my coffee. Nobody, certainly not the RIAA, has granted me any permission to do so. However, I also require no authorization. This is the important thing to learn here: when someone says you have no permission to do something, ask yourself whether any permission is needed. You need nobody's permission to exercise your rights. As soon as you accept the lie that you do, you're lost.

  13. Re:Because /. would lose it's sensationalist angle by ScrewMaster · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Maybe, but Fox claims to be a professional news organization. Slashdot doesn't, and in fact just takes stories from anybody ... no real journalism involved. Slashdot is also pretty open about that, and doesn't claim to be anything other than what it is. Really, you should be criticizing Fox for being down at Slashdot's level.

    --
    The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  14. RIAA changed their tune by yeremein · · Score: 3, Informative
    The following has been removed from the RIAA's website, but the Internet Archive remembers:

    If you choose to take your own CDs and make copies for yourself on your computer or portable music player, that's great. It's your music and we want you to enjoy it at home, at work, in the car and on the jogging trail.
  15. Re:It's going to burn them either way... by slashdotard · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is a business that seems to regard it's customers as the enemy. The way it's going, they will eventually start suing anyone just for buying their product.

    --
    me. --a by-product of public education
  16. Re:How are they shooting themselves in the foot? by dgatwood · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Because the status quo is nothing more than a de facto presumption of legality. At such point as a judge rules that it is legal, that becomes legal precedent. The last thing they want is for format shifting to be ruled fair use, since they have made their living over the decades precisely through reselling the same content in different formats over and over again.

    More to the point, format shifting at least currently is only presumed to be fair use when done by an individual. Depending on how a ruling on format shifting was worded, there's at least the potential that it might make it legal for someone to set up a commercial format shifting service that provides crystal clear digital copies of your worn out phonograph records without paying the RIAA, its members, the composer, artist, or publisher a dime. Nothing would scare a greedy, corrupt cartel like the RIAA more than the risk of format shifting becoming de jure legal in the more general case, as that would mean that they basically would have to make a living entirely by creating new music that is worth listening to, something which they haven't, IMHO, done successfully in a very long time. :-D

    --

    Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

  17. Re:They are plainly unauthorized copies, no tricke by KB3LWJ · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Here's an interesting quote from one of the legal briefs in the case:

    "Once Defendant converted Plaintiffs' recording into the compressed .mp3 format and they are in his shared folder, they are no longer the authorized copies distributed by Plaintiffs" [Supplemental Brief, page 15, lines 16-18, emphasis added].

    The phrasing that they used seems to indicate that the MP3 files were authorized until they were placed into the shared folder. Now, I'm not a lawyer, so it's possible that this means absolutely nothing, but it's still an interesting notion.

    What it seems that they are saying is that the MP3's are authorized until used for an illegal purpose (i.e. file-sharing). Amazon's MP3 Music Service TOS seems to support this interpretation. It encourages users to make backup copies of MP3's they purchase (which would be authorized); and, if you violate any of the terms (such as infringing upon the copyright of the MP3), your license to use the music terminates, making the MP3 unauthorized. While the music in this case wasn't purchased from Amazon, it seems like the same philosophy is involved.

  18. Re:How are they shooting themselves in the foot? by Artifakt · · Score: 3, Insightful

    What? How are they shooting themselves in the foot?

    Because people want fairness more than they want the letter of the law. To most of us, it seems fair that distributing copies to people in defiance of ownership type rights is unfair. Most juries (in the U. S. at least), would award damages for a case of someone distributing something they don't own the right to distribute. Many, probably most there would approve of criminal charges.
            But juries usually want to be 'fair'. 'Fair' means that it's much more serious to sell copies for substantial profit than to pass them around for 'free'. 'Fair' means that off air recording is either not wrong, or it's a pretty trivial wrong. 'Fair' means they don't want a EULA to be the equivalent of a normal signed paper contract.
            So when the recording industry starts claiming that their rights are being violated by people making legitimate backups, or not buying a second copy to use in the car, or using a VCR for space or time shifting, or lots of other thing, the recording industry starts looking like Darth Vader/Simon Legree/Satan, etc. They come off as anal-compulsive jerks trying to give basically honest people a hard time, rip off little old ladies, tie Nell Fenwick to the tracks, and probably eat live kittens on their days off.
            And the jury is looking for any chance to do what's 'fair' to Baelzebub/Snydley Whiplash/Hannibal Lecter. So, they don't just reject the arguement that ripping is a violation of fair use, they look for excuses to reject the rest of the RIAA's claim as well. Any excuse.

    --
    Who is John Cabal?
  19. Re:How are they shooting themselves in the foot? by ScrewMaster · · Score: 3, Insightful

    In other words, they've been milking the oldies for so long they can't imagine any other way to make money from music. What happens if I have an old VHS recording that I want to shift to a DVD ... seems to me the same issues would apply. Hell, what if I have a book that I want to convert to an electronic format so I can shift it to my portable reader. The outcome of the RIAA's crusade will have effects well beyond music.

    --
    The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.