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Copyright Cutback Proposed As RIAA Solution

An anonymous reader writes "InfoWeek blogger Alex Wolfe proposes a novel solution to the ongoing spate of RIAA lawsuits over alleged music copying. He suggests legislation which cuts back corporate copyrights from 120 years to 5 years. 'We should do what we do to children who misbehave,' he writes. 'Take away their privileges.' Wolfe says this is regardless of the misunderstanding surrounding the latest case, which apparently isn't about ripping CDs to one's own computer. As to those who say copyrights are a right: "That's simply a misunderstanding of their purpose. Copyrights, like patents, weren't implemented to protect their owners in perpetuity. They are part of a dance which attempts to balance off societal benefits against incentives for writers and inventors. You want to incentivize people to push the state of the creative and technical arts, but you don't want give those folks such overbearing protections that future advances by other innovators are stifled." What do you think; is it time to cut off the record industry?"

34 of 709 comments (clear)

  1. Preaching to the choir by jon787 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What do you think; is it time to cut off the record industry?
    This is /., do you really have to ask that?
    --
    X(7): A program for managing terminal windows. See also screen(1).
    1. Re:Preaching to the choir by fifedrum · · Score: 5, Insightful

      i'm afraid to ask the voting public what they think on the issue, most of them (think boomers) would vote to extend it because that's what Sony Bono would have wanted us to do.

    2. Re:Preaching to the choir by rnturn · · Score: 4, Funny

      "Sony Bono"?

      I think you meant to type "Sonny Bono" but, then again, maybe you really weren't that far from being right.

      --
      CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
    3. Re:Preaching to the choir by conlaw · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As one of the early boomers, I respectfully disagree with your analysis. If Sonny Bono--or Elvis or all of the Bobby's--didn't provide for their heirs while they were making the money, too bad, so sad. And, IMHO, calling it the "Sonny Bono Law" was just a way to keep everyone from realizing that the point was really to extend the Disney Corporation's copyrights. In other words, the Congress-critters didn't really care about Chastity, they wanted to protect Mickey Mouse (f/k/a Steamboat Willie).

    4. Re:Preaching to the choir by cthulu_mt · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If the RIAA could figure out how to tie perpetual Copyright to Social Securities most of you Baby Boomers would line up to cut my generations collective throats.

      Mod me down in-case I just gave some shill a bright idea.

      --
      Virginia is for lovers. EVE is for griefers.
    5. Re:Preaching to the choir by Gorshkov · · Score: 4, Funny

      most of them (think boomers) would vote to extend it because that's what Sony Bono would have wanted us to do.
      Us "boomers" are old enough to remember hearing him sing. That was NOT music that should be protected ..... trust me on this.
    6. Re:Preaching to the choir by fastest+fascist · · Score: 4, Funny

      No no, it SHOULD be protected. Strongly. So strongly that you need to obtain a separate license for each time you play any of his "music", and failure to do so would be a capital offense.

  2. Ideas don't have to be free... by Baron_Yam · · Score: 4, Interesting

    120 years is INSANE.

    Everything should go into the public domain after a period long enough to have allowed the creator to profit under most circumstances.
    Copyright should also last at least long enough that it discourages companies from just waiting it out.

    I figure 10-15 years for most things.

    1. Re:Ideas don't have to be free... by ByOhTek · · Score: 5, Insightful

      For corporate copyrights, 5 years is fine. Maybe a fee to continue the copyright for 5 year increments beyond that (to encourage continue publication of the media as long as it is copyrighted, and public-domaining as soon as it isn't profitable). Corporations are too abusive to give long copyrights too.

      Individual copyrights for 10-20 years are fine, IMO. It forces the corporations to answer to the artists if they want to save on copyright fees, and the artists will probably be more considerate to the consumers.

      --
      Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
    2. Re:Ideas don't have to be free... by Cheerio+Boy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      For corporate copyrights, 5 years is fine. Maybe a fee to continue the copyright for 5 year increments beyond that (to encourage continue publication of the media as long as it is copyrighted, and public-domaining as soon as it isn't profitable). Corporations are too abusive to give long copyrights too.

      Individual copyrights for 10-20 years are fine, IMO. It forces the corporations to answer to the artists if they want to save on copyright fees, and the artists will probably be more considerate to the consumers.

      I'm all for an extension fee but make it non-trivial in cost for corporations AND make it geometrically progressive so that they can't just keep paying the fee forever.

      Because you know as long as they can pay a small amount to retain their stranglehold they will do so.
      --

      "Bah!" - Dogbert
    3. Re:Ideas don't have to be free... by jcaldwel · · Score: 5, Insightful

      For corporate copyrights, 5 years is fine. Maybe a fee to continue the copyright for 5 year increments beyond that (to encourage continue publication of the media as long as it is copyrighted, and public-domaining as soon as it isn't profitable). Corporations are too abusive to give long copyrights too. Individual copyrights for 10-20 years are fine, IMO. It forces the corporations to answer to the artists if they want to save on copyright fees, and the artists will probably be more considerate to the consumers.

      The distinction between corporate and individuals wouldn't be effective. Some company exec will just hold the copyright personally, and license it exclusively to the corporation for the full 20 years.

    4. Re:Ideas don't have to be free... by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Some company exec will just hold the copyright personally

      That's the heart of the problem. Congress is authorized only to secure copyrights to creators ("Authors and Inventors") - not to employers, assignees, or heirs.

      Recognizing that any copyright claim by someone who didn't create the work is bogus would go a long way to fixing the problem. (And would align copyright law with the Constitution as a bonus.)

      --
      Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
      You cannot wash away blood with blood
    5. Re:Ideas don't have to be free... by coolGuyZak · · Score: 5, Interesting
      My idea is slightly more complex, but (IMHO) more reasonable logistically:
      1. Everything is automatically copyrighted for X years (my choice for X would be between 10 and 20 years).
      2. Copyright can be extended to Y years (say, 2X or 3X years) by registering the copyright with the copyright office. Registration requires the full text of any copyrighted work to be submitted with the application. Registration may incur a reasonable filing fee.
      3. Registering a copyright grants government institutions the following mandatory licenses to the work:
        • All government institutions (e.g. libraries, schools, public parks) may stock the complete text, royalty free.
        • The government may make an indefinite number of copies for archival and preservation.
        • If the entity that holds a registered copyright ceases distribution of the work, the government may (at its option) distribute the work for the price of reproduction, plus a reasonable and compulsory license fee (paid to the copyright owner).
        • Any trademarks, patents, or other intellectual property rights required to distribute the work are licensed to the government. The terms of this license should be narrow--only those required to enable distribution under the terms previously enumerated.
      4. Additional extension of copyright is not possible. Retroactive extension is explicitly denied.
      5. After the copyright expires, the work passes into the public domain.
      6. Refinements of an existing work may enable additional property rights. However, refinements are treated as derivative of but separate from the original work. Creating a derivative or refined work does not extend the rights or terms granted to previous work.
  3. Re:I do agree with a time limitation... by Millennium · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Twenty is too long, but I agree that five is way too short. I'd go to seven with an optional seven-year extension (for a total of fourteen) much like the original copyright scheme used in the US.

  4. What's the point? by goldspider · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's not as if anyone in Congress is inclined to reign in one of their most prolific lobbyists. What is the point of such musings?

    --
    "Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
  5. This guy obviously doesn't write his own music by Goldenhawk · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ... but I do write music. Sorry, I have a real problem with Congress taking away my own rights to my own music after just five years. That's a flash in the pan, in terms of my life; for crying out loud, I don't even get some of my own music finished in that short a time. I don't sell my music (or at least, nobody's bothered to buy it yet), but I have a problem with someone saying they can appropriate my own creative works that quickly.

    There are other solutions than this that have NOT been tried yet, because the lobby is too big for Congress to act. And this would suffer the same fate.

    --
    --Brandon / Split Infinity Music

    1. Re:This guy obviously doesn't write his own music by maroberts · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I agree with your statement about 5 years being too short, but your argument is wrong.

      If Congress cut back copyright, it wouldn't be removing your rights, it would be reducing rights that it had granted to you in the first place. It's entirely up to you whether you agree to distribute your music or video based on those rights.

      Even for corporate copyright, I agree 5 years is much too short, but equally the current US period (70 years + life?) is much too long. Some figure around 15-20 years, as for example in patents, would be a much more reasonable balance between making it worth your while to produce and not overly restricting the rights of the general public to enjoy and reuse your concepts after a reasonable time.

      --

      Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
      Karma: Chameleon

    2. Re:This guy obviously doesn't write his own music by jesdynf · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah, well -- there isn't a really polite way to put this -- suck it up.

      Really, that's all I can tell you. Nobody keeps paying ME for the creative work I did a month ago in my job. Far as I'm concerned, this notion that I should be prevented from saying words because another person owns them is repugnant on its face -- five years is the compromise position, not the extreme.

      There's an outer limit at which copyright becomes a law I'll agree to obey instead of a moral and ethical irrelevancy backed by nothing but powerful men with guns. "Life plus 70" isn't on the map. I seem to recall that the first act of Congress establishing copyright covered it from 17 years; that still seems awful long to me, but it's in the ballpark where we can start trying to cut a deal. Much past 17, though... and it's back to men with guns.

      --
      Yahoo! Pipes are awesome. How awesome? http://pipes.yahoo.com/jesdynf/slashdot
  6. Re:Corporate Copyrights - Not Just Entertainment by maz2331 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The lifespan of software is pretty short anyway. A 5-year protection cycle is a huge motivator to get a new product out the door on a regular basis and keep the programmers employed.

  7. Re:I do agree with a time limitation... by secPM_MS · · Score: 5, Informative

    Traditionally, copyright was for the life of the author + some reasonably large number. The optimal lifetime has been studied under economic maximization theory. The result was ~ 14 years, which is rather closer to the 20 year patent life time than the proposed 5 years. The link is: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070712-research-optimal-copyright-term-is-14-years.html

  8. Flaming to get hits. by LWATCDR · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is just a dumb idea.
    1. It really couldn't happen because it would violate more than a few international agreements.
    2. corporate vs personal copyrights? A lot of artists when they start make money incorperate. Where do there works fit in?

    It is a non solution to a real problem. But lots of people will click on the blog and read the ads and they will make money off it.
    Thank you for playing and paying.

    --
    See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    1. Re:Flaming to get hits. by mrchaotica · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It really couldn't happen because it would violate more than a few international agreements.

      So what? Answer me this: In America, who has sovereignty? We the actual citizens, or foreigners?

      corporate vs personal copyrights? A lot of artists when they start make money incorperate. Where do there works fit in?

      Obviously, once you eliminate fuzzy measures like "life of the author," corporate and personal copyrights can be exactly the same 5 years.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    2. Re:Flaming to get hits. by ceoyoyo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      1. Most (if not all) of those international agreements are at the US's behest, seeing as they're by FAR the biggest exporter of copyrighted material. Besides, when has the US ever cared about international agreements?

      2. You can incorporate and then license your personal copyright to your company. Same with patents. Corporate patents should be shorter than personal patents. If a company owns a patent then it should be capable of developing it quite quickly. An individual who owns a patent likely needs a longer term to develop it.

    3. Re:Flaming to get hits. by Sancho · · Score: 4, Interesting

      There's a pretty good reason to let individuals have longer copyrights--they're less able to make money quickly from their work. Any given production studio probably makes 95% of their profits from a film within the first 5 years of its release (theatrical runs, initial DVD release, special edition DVD release.) An individual who is trying to market it without the help of a corporation will likely need to rely heavily on word-of-mouth advertising, which will be slower than a nationwide advertising campaign.

      I'd be pretty happy with 5 years for corporations, 10 years for individuals, each with the option to renew for one more term. If you can't recoup your investment within this time frame, you don't need to be in this business.

      Of course, I'd also like to see perpetual copyrights for free-as-in-speech works, but that's probably too much to ask.

    4. Re:Flaming to get hits. by pembo13 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It really couldn't happen because it would violate more than a few international agreements.

      So what? Answer me this: In America, who has sovereignty? We the actual citizens, or foreigners?

      Well first of all international agreements have less to do with 'foreigners' and more to do with one's own government since they had to agree to it (hence the word agreements).

      Secondly, in my experience, in America the cooperations have all the power but allow the citizens to think they have power.

      And Americans have very little right to talk about sovereignty since they have little to no respect for the sovereignty of others.

      --
      "Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
    5. Re:Flaming to get hits. by Raisey-raison · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This idea is great. Here are some more:

      1. I think a general copyright of 14 years is the optimum from the time of publication. This study previously appeared on slashdot.
      http://www.rufuspollock.org/economics/papers/optimal_copyright.pdf

      2. Solve the problem of people using copyright to prevent reproduction especially in small independent films.
      If companies use copyright to deny reproduction at any price or at a price that is so high its absurd, enable people to pay some fixed fee and ignore the wishes of the copyright holder. Copyright shouldn't be a tool to prevent reproduction just a tool to make some money from artistic creativity.

      3. If companies abuse the position by engaging in fraud or anti trust behavior to manipulate prices they lose their copyright.
      http://attorneygeneral.utah.gov/PrRel/prfeb192004.htm
      http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl-cd-settlement.htm

      4. Expand fair use. If I want to use a small portion of a book eg 1000 words from a 50,000 word book its ok even if its for profit. I just can't reproduce lots of 1000 word bit to reproduce the book. If its educational I get to use it unless it literally causes major loss to the company. Eg in a classroom I can make 200 copies of a newspaper article for all the students. I just can't do that for a whole textbook. But I can use it for a figure from a textbook.

      5. No automatic copyright for photos. There has to be some artistic quality to them.

      6. In the U.S., buildings built on or after December 1, 1990 are also eligible for copyright. This is pathetic. Given that creativity was not stifled beforehand this is totally unnecessary. No copyright on buildings.

      7. No frivolous copyright either like on restaurants. Yes someone was sued and lost because one restaurant was too similar to another.

      8. No copyright on 'happy birthday'. If you sing happy birthday in a restaurant you gotta pay a fee to the so called rights holder. The movie 'The Corporation' claims that Warner/Chappell charge up to US$10,000 for the song to appear in a film.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Birthday_to_You

    6. Re:Flaming to get hits. by Total_Wimp · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So what? Answer me this: In America, who has sovereignty? We the actual citizens, or foreigners?

      I keep hearing this "sovereignty" thing bandied about by (usually conservative) people. They usually say it in the context of "we'll be giving up our sovereignty" with this treaty or that or "we should do [insert treaty-breaking thing we just feel like doing] because we have sovereignty!"

      Here's the thing; Abiding by your agreements IS NOT some sort of weakness where you're somehow giving up your right of self-determination. It's simply keeping your end of a bargain. It's, you know, that honesty thing, where you make a contract, and then do the thing you said you were going to do in the contract.

      But it gets better. We usually get something we want when we make these deals. You got that? It's not just give, give, give, give, give. We actually get something in return. I don't know about you, but it doesn't seem very nice to me when someone takes something from me, then doesn't give me the thing they promised in return. I try to avoid doing business with that guy in the future.

      Sure, I understand that treaties sometimes need to be dissolved. It happens. But it gives me the willys when you sovereignty folks act like it should be done at the drop of a hat. It's serious damn business and should be treated as such. doing it simply "because we can" is not good enough. If it comes to exercising our sovereignty whenever we feel like it or being a good honest neighbor and only breaking treaties unilaterally when there's a very serious reason, well, I value good and honest a hell of a lot more. It just seems like the American way to do things. At least I hope so.
  9. Re:Corporate Copyrights - Not Just Entertainment by jedidiah · · Score: 4, Insightful

    A 30 year old cobol program running on a mainframe is the ABSOLUTE LAST thing that should be entangled in copyright shenanigans. This is THE perfect example of something for which the owner of the copy should have the ability to fix and maintain the program. Quite likely, the individual or company that original wrote or sold the program is gone, LONG GONE.

    --
    A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  10. Re:Rainbows and Unicorns for everyone! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I just thought I'd attack the first cynical apologist for no good reason other than I don't like people like you.

    Those who whine and mumble "It will never happen" think they are being 'realists', but they are just dragging everyone
    down with their own depressive lack of vision. Neil, you are as much a part of the problem as the RIAA and other criminals.
    What do you possibly feel you have added to the discussion, other than what we all already know?

    Want to add something other than vague accusations?
    Want to print the names of those you accuse of corruption?
    Want to cite some examples of their criminal behaviour?

    Your hand waving dismissal just insults us all.

  11. Copyrights Are Insane by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I agree that copyright terms are insane. One of the things the Founding Fathers specifically put into the Constitution was a ban on perpetual copyrights. They'd seen them in Europe, and weren't going to have them here. Secure for a limited time... is what it says.

    What I would put into law are 2 specific reforms:

    1: Copyright cannot be extended beyond its original term. The reason for this is simple. Copyright exists to encourage creation and publication of the arts. Once that art is created under the copyright terms of the time, copyright has served its entire purpose. Anything beyond that is just giving more unnecessary rewards to a few at the expense of the many.

    2: Copyright is lost to any item not available for new sale in a 3 year period at a fair price. If you're no longer selling it, then you have no right to prevent other people from duplicating it and keeping it available.

    Change on any issue starts when people start talking about it. Let copyright change begin here now!

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  12. The Mickey Mouse Rule by russbutton · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It's never going to happen because of the "Mickey Mouse" rule. Music copyright in this country goes back to 1925 because the Disney corporation has copyright to Mickey Mouse, who dates back to 1925. If you were to limit copyright to anything any of us considers reasonable, Disney would lose ownership of Mickey Mouse, which would be huge for them. They've been paying Congress for decades to keep moving the copyright window so they could continue to hold Mickey Mouse. We have the best government that money can buy and Disney has been keeping up on their payments.

    Killing off copyright, or at least reducing it to anything less than 80 years isn't going to happen anytime soon.

  13. Re:International Agreements by Pharmboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't think so. Most people are mad at the US, not because we break treaties (which has traditionally been done in compliance with the actual treaty) but they are instead mad because we won't SIGN treaties that we know we can't live up to, like Kyoto.

    Then again, the US was the first to ban aerosols, has significantly cleaned up our lakes since 1970s, just recently upped the CAFE standards for gas mileage in cars, and subsidizes alternative fuels. Far from perfect, granted, but we have still done more without a treaty than most with one.

    --
    Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
  14. TRIPS by Scrameustache · · Score: 4, Informative

    It really couldn't happen because it would violate more than a few international agreements.

    So what? Answer me this: In America, who has sovereignty? We the actual citizens, or foreigners?

    Who the hell do you think wrote those agreements in the first place!?

    The Agreement on Trade Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights (TRIPS) is an international agreement administered by the World Trade Organization (WTO) that sets down minimum standards for many forms of intellectual property (IP) regulation. It was negotiated at the end of the Uruguay Round of the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT) in 1994. Its inclusion was the culmination of a program of intense lobbying by the United States.
    The United States strategy of linking trade policy to intellectual property standards can be traced back to the entrepreneurship of senior management at Pfizer in the early 1980s, who mobilized corporations in the United States and made maximizing intellectual property privileges the number one priority of trade policy in the United States (Braithwaite and Drahos, 2000, Chapter 7).
    --

    You can't take the sky from me...

  15. Re:International Agreements by BlueParrot · · Score: 4, Insightful

    just recently upped the CAFE standards for gas mileage in cars


    With the new targets being significantly more modest than the European equivalents.

    Also, most people are not too upset about the US finding it difficult to cut greenhouse gas emissions. We can understand that. What we are REALLY pissed about is that your government has decided to launch a corrupt attack on the scientific process rather than admitting they have a problem and that it is hurting the entire globe. The disinformation they are promoting in order to save their own face is making it difficult for countries that DO try to make a difference to explain it to their population.

    In short, the Bush administrations anti-scientific propaganda is causing Europeans who don't know better to reject their local governments attempts at curtailing emissions. Thus while they may just be doing it to save their own face, their lies are causing major trouble across the globe, and it is pissing of a lot of people.