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Zed Shaw, creator of the popular Mongrel HTTP daemon / library, has decided it was high time to tear into the Ruby/Rails community for many different complaints that he has been collecting over the last few years. "Rails is a Ghetto" is Shaw's self-proclaimed exit strategy from the Rails community. "This is that rant. It is part of my grand exit strategy from the Ruby and Rails community. I don't want to be a 'Ruby guy' anymore, and will probably start getting into more Python, Factor, and Lua in the coming months. I've got about three or four more projects in the works that will use all of those and not much Ruby planned. This rant is full of stories about companies and people who've either pissed in my cheerios somehow or screwed over friends. I can back all of them up from emails, IRC chat logs, or with witnesses. Nothing in here is a lie unless it's really obviously a lie through exaggeration, and there's a lot of my opinion as well."
Only a fucking tool bag piece of shit would:
* spend 10-20 minutes calling me names over IRC,
* not have the balls to say any of that to my face,
* say I'm a dick for wanting to use a different (established) publish/review model,
* and then demolish such an important file for a project,
* keeping everyone stumped and pissed for an hour,
* therefore proving me right.
This is exactly what makes Rails a ghetto. A bunch of half-trained former PHP morons who never bother to sit down and really learn the computer science they were too good to study in college. BTW, this is true about Kevin as he's an English major or something stupid (and it shows).
Hats off to you Kevin, you fucking prick. I'm enjoying my vacation too. Ok, this is the summation of his first point. He got into a verbal argument with someone on his team about how patches should be handled. Kevin thought people should be able to submit patches to his workspace while Zed vehemently did not.
People commonly have disagreements, work them out.
The fact that this (largely nontechnical) issue is his first point disheartens me and makes me wary of ever working with Zed no matter how brilliant he is. Perhaps this is another example of how non-personal communication (forums/IRC/IMs/e-mail) leads to heated debates over absolutely nothing. I would start to point out that Zed did call Kevin a 'mofo' first before Kevin called him a 'dick' but I would hesitate as name calling and the like is for children.
It's a wonder Zed gets anything done other than by himself to me.
As for his complaints about companies, I have to warn him that bad companies are everywhere
I hate to say this but after reading this first part of the rant, I think Zed is just as big (if not half) of the problem of the community being in shambles as any of his targets are.
My work here is dung.
What a monster faggot.
I hope high gas prices are depriving your children, you fucking dumbass.
But for the absolute opposite reason: any community that would have this guy as a prominent member and/or mouthpiece is immature indeed.
concrete5: a cms made for marketing, but strong enough for geeks.
Is there any particular reason this is relevant information other than the fact that a significant developer is leaving and that he evidently has personal issues with some of the other involved parties? I mean some of it is an entertaining read in much the same way an episode of Jerry Springer is, but is there anything really technical or interesting here?
To err is human, to really foul up requires a computer
Why did this even make the front page? It had no redeeming value except to prove that "Zed" is a pain to work with and unprofessional.
For linux tips: http://www.linuxtipsblog.com
What, you don't like profanity laced rants aimed at you and your employees, from someone who obviously believes his and only his opinion matters?
Based on the writing on his site, I wouldn't hire him for anything. Even if he's a god among programmers, I can hire someone who's 80% as good and causes fewer problems in the workplace, and likely come out ahead due to that.
I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
Holy cow! I started reading TFA with the idea that there would be some good points in there, but never got to them. What a load of verbal abuse! Excuse me, but I don't fancy reading through that.
I understand that things have really hurt this guy and made him angry, but I don't think this is the way to go about improving things. It may be a good way for him to vent his frustration, but I would say that if you want people to take you seriously, it's better to write down your criticism in a civil manner, with examples of what you are criticizing and, for even better results, suggestions for how to improve things.
A long rant that slings abuse at everything and everyone is bound to just hurt people, and that's rarely if ever a Good Thing. As for me, I won't be reading the article any further, so that's _one_ initially interested reader he has lost. And I'm sure I'm not alone.
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
Apparently so are some of its former developers.
Clever title, but "Pissy Foul-Mouthed Drama Queen Makes Histrionic Exit from Rails" would have been more accurate. I don't much care for rails either, but I do hope any other project he hops onto doesn't look to him for their public face.
Done with slashdot, done with nerds, getting a life.
Obligatory pot/kettle/black reference.
O....K.... I think that stands by itself.
But wait! There's more...
No, I believe you're doing that...right now...
And, based on the "beat your fucking ass" statements above, he'll be utilizing that software as a client at some point.
Seriously, based on reading only a portion of his post, I wouldn't hire this man even if he was a coding god. I don't think his woes are due to his previous co-workers. Textbook example of a serious attitude problem.
Perhaps Google read a few paragraphs of Zed's So Fucking Awesome and thought better of asking him to do anything at all. I feel sorry for this guy now because this one post will do more to ruin his career than any minor tantrum in front of a few people (a few of which he describes here). I hear dreamhost is hiring though; his weblog reminds me of theirs.
Not trolling, just asking people to stop putting this kind of junk up front. It's a waste of everyone's time.
You are using English. Please learn the difference between loose and lose; they're, there, and their; your and you're.
That is truly one bitter individual.
I mean, there's such a thing as burning bridges, but he's taken it to the next level. I know for a fact that if I ever received a resume from such an individual, it would go straight into the trash.
As far as I'm concerned, interpersonal skills count for a lot - even if your a genius, in a real environment you'll have to function as part of a team. This guy, well, it seems that he has real difficulties in a team environment. Sure, he may have worked with some individuals that were not up to his standards (would anyone be?), but to say what he said...it's too much.
Good riddance to him.
The manager who dresses him down saying he can't code, then comes back later and claims he meant someone else. Since he's obviously too busy being angry he completely missed that the manager backtracked to try and protect himself from any lawsuits.
My favorite part is where he brags about having a business degree, except that prior to that he admitted to being homeless for a big chunk of the year.
This is a classic case of a loser blaming everyone else for his problems. If this idiot didn't know that the world is populated by shitty little startups with no money and big ol' mean corporations that don't pay invoices for 6 weeks then he definitely got into the wrong business.
Blaming a coding environment for your financial woes is like blaming your car because the subway runs late.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Couldn't what?
You are apparently confused. I already did it. He said, fuck you if you think you're gonna talk to me like you can hurt me. So I did precisely that. I have completed my task, my victory is right there for all to see, and I've proven you wrong when you say I couldn't.
Here's a bit of a hint to in-shape nerds everywhere:
Shut up about martial arts. Martial arts is for pro bodyguards and nerds with inferiority complexes. Are you a pro bodyguard?
I'm sure it's a nice skill to know, but you're still going to lose a fight against anyone who's been in more than a halfahandful of real ones before, so don't get too cocky.
Rent a boxing ring? Jeeesus... what a bourgie way to threaten an ass-beating.
In Capitalist America, bank robs you!
I don't think this is about rails hype. This is the case of a prima donna who can't understand that his poisonous attitude is to blame for his unemployment, and not the community that gave him an identity as a useful asshole to have around. Meltdown. Move along, nothing to see here.
Albert Einstein actually managed to scuttle his initial post-graduate career because he let everybody know how smart he was. (He actually was as smart as he thought he was, but that didn't make anybody like him any better.) That's why he had to go work as a patent clerk. His best work was done after he'd grown up and gotten more sociable — and collaborative.
Perhaps the Turing machine and Alan's other mathematical achievements occurred in splendid isolation. But what about his work with Enigma? That was a huge project, and I doubt if it got done by him sitting around doing everything himself.
Ada Augusta, as I recall, never delivered any working systems. Wasn't her fault (the technology just wasn't ready for her), but that excludes her as any kind of teamwork benchmark.
Turing disliked working with others and most likely had what we'd call today Asperger's syndrome (we do like to label these things). The book 'The Man Who Knew Too Much' is an interesting read (or more directly: http://www.ijpm.org/content/pdf/175/Turing.pdf)
..although when he didn't have to look at people, he did achieve great things as part of the Enigma team.
Poor Zed looks like he's in the running for plain ol' Bipolar Disorder sans Genius though...
You don't understand why this is threatening? If I "casually" mentioned that I know where you live and that I used to be a firefighter and know how to get away with arson and that I think you're somebody whose family deserves to suffer, you wouldn't think that was threatening?
(Note: I am entirely non-violent, have never been a firefighter, do not know where you live, and have no idea how to commit arson)
I understand what you're saying - you said you could hurt him, not that you would. I understood that when I read your post without reading your clumsy explanations.
What I am saying is that communication between human beings is not precise like code. You did not say that you would hurt him, but the implication was clear. Obviously, I don't think you have any intention of hurting him. It just makes you look like a typically clueless robot-like nerd, that's all. Try that kind of crap in the real world and you get beaten up and/or slapped with restraining orders and/or worse.
What a poor image you project for your employer!
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This story is already flamebait enough as it is to add fuel to the fire in responding to ACs and trolls.
A metadiscussion of the story and the community is warranted and slashdot staffer's feelings about the subject are certainly interesting but this all seems childish...
If you're not doing it for the "lulz" then you should just stop.
If you are doing it for the "lulz" you need to work on your counter-trolling techniques. We expect a more seasoned ZING from the ones with the slashdot icon next to their names.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
Personally, I prefer to either IED the fucker or snipe him from a hundred yards with a Dragunov or a Marine Remington 700.
I mean, as Dick Marcinko says, never give a sucker an even break.
Why ever expose yourself to retaliation of any kind?
It's far better to be an assassin than a brawler.
Of course, the martial arts do come in handy since shit happens.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
I've lost count of the mod points I've lost here when I said exactly that about the Ruby community as a whole, not only the Rails bunch.
My pet rant against the Ruby guys is that they use multi-sillable (usually invented) words to describe their own favorite Ruby features, yet when one asks for a specific example where that feature would make a program better in any way, i.e. simpler, or more powerful, or more efficient, etc, they are unable to answer.
For the time, I think Zed Shaw made the right decision, go to Python. Ruby is Lisp with Perl syntax. The time you spend making up for this or that shortcoming Python has in relation to Ruby is amply compensated by the time you save with the simpler and more regular syntax. I had my share of generic "end" statements which you must match with several different ways to start a block when I did Fortran a quarter of a century ago.
What I was trying to say is that, when you're an established company, with an existing codebase and talent that knows how to develop software using language X, language Y has to be a big win before it's worth moving. It doesn't matter whether you should have used Y rather than X in the first place. It doesn't even matter that Y is better. Y has to be a lot better.
I'm wondering what kind of person hangs his dirty laundry in a public place, and a good chunk of it revolves around his inability to find work.
.. programming for somebody at a company? What a thankless twit .. the best revenge is to live well, not to program for 21 years before dropping a missive that sounds like it was written by a 21 year old to be dropped on XBoxLive voice chat at 3am.
You know what I think makes a good coder? Somebody who can work with the way things are, not they way they think they should be.
I don't doubt there are some massive tools in the Ruby community, but there are some massive tools in life. What kind of person wastes so much of their energy and life fighting elements that they clearly can't change? It's a waste of a brain, and to wit, maybe not as brilliant a brain as it imagines itself to be.
What kind of thankless nitwit turns down a junior job at Google and bemoans giving cut rate deals to nobodies under the condition that the money is payed ASAP?
Eat some humble pie, kiddo, and get a hobby that doesn't involve trying to be awesome. Maybe, like
Cripes, I can hear folks tremble at the thought of him becoming more active in some of the other communities.
"Old man yells at systemd"
I don't want to be a 'Ruby guy' anymore
I'm sorry, but I feel the same thing with every new programming language and/or paradigm. It's just a bunch of busy work to learn a new syntax, find all the best-of-breed libraries, and work around the unforeseen limitations. In the end, you're not more than a negligible amount better than before, and you've wasted a year of your life.
Are there still people out there who believe in the silver bullet? I mean, I understand there are always new people coming into the practice, but I believe we can mature as a group. Nobody advocates GOTO any more, maybe we can stop advocating the endless language churn? It seems like an enormous waste of time.
I mean, follow your bliss, if you've got great ideas, implement them. I've written redundant libraries because I wanted to see how it would be done. Explore, enjoy. But understand that since LISP we've been able to do whatever we wanted to do, so it's all just hand waving at this point.
More power to Ruby. Rails. Python. Whatever. I'm still hacking Perl at the moment and I don't see any compelling reason to switch. I can do what I need to do. I'm sure that your language of choice cuts the mustard too. When the next 10 Super Languages Of The Future (tm) come out in the next decade, I'll enjoy reading about them and watching as they run into their own particular issues because...
Effective Software Design Is Hard.
Cheers.
If I had mod points I'd give you an insightful. I wouldn't hire the guy even to code, because I reckon he'd poison the team. He sees somebody describing open repositories and closed repositories as "polar opposites" as being a personal attack? Heck, he seems to see everything as a personal attack. Actually, he seems to tick pretty much all the boxes for paranoid personality disorder http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoid_personality_disorder (assuming the contrary indications such as schizophrenia or a history of substance abuse are not present). I hope he sorts out his issues -- not least because I'm nervous about him coming over to the Python community!
Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?