Thimerosal Does Not Cause Autism

jamie found an article over at Washington Monthly discussing the recent finding that there is no link between thimerosal and autism. It seems that after the mercury-based vaccine preservative was withdrawn from use in 1999, no drop in autism rates has been observed in a large California study. Here's the Science Daily writeup on the study, published in the Archives of General Psychiatry.

Comments

Conspiracy nutters won't be discouraged

[KublaiKhan]

Given that the folks shrieking the loudest about the thimerosal-autism 'link' (as if a single study that's since been discredited many, many times can be called a 'link') tend to be parents of autistic children who also tend to go in for bogus new-age nonsense like 'chelation' and 'collodial silver' treatments, I don't think the whole nonsense is quite over yet. It's definitely a nice step in the right direction, but no amount of proof will really convince conspiracy theorists that their pet paranoia is without merit--they merely will claim that the 'truth' is being 'covered up' by the Big Pharmaceutical companies, and that the government is out to poison your children with the evil vaccinations that 'confuse your immune system' leaving you 'open to illness.' Most of them would benefit from a good solid course in basic logic (to overturn the fallacies they base their 'theories' on) and in basic biology and chemistry. The best we can hope for, I suppose, is that they'll select themselves out of the gene pool by applying nonsensical and hazardous treatments to themselves and their offspring.

Re:Conspiracy nutters won't be discouraged

[solar_blitz]

Dear God, I would like to file a bug report.

Re:Conspiracy nutters won't be discouraged

[KublaiKhan]

"What I would like to know is just how much research have people like you done into the issue?" Ad hominem attack. I would note that, as conspiracy theories are an area of special interest to me, I take great pains to research not only the nutbag nonsense, but the real science behind any claims. "Because I know a hell of a lot people, including some within the vaccine industry, who, if they posted here, could destroy every single one of your arguments." Appeal to authority. If you can't make your own argument, then kindly keep your mouth shut. "Most of the so called "fallcies" you claim are far from that." Caught two already. "The people I know who are anti-vaccine generally tend to be more intelligent, better educated and questioning than the people who aren't." I'm a bit rusty on my fallacies, for I've misremembered the name of this one--but no, you cannot claim that because your particular group is somehow 'smarter' your argument is automatically correct. It's a non sequitur. "If you had a child who was suffering from autism" Appeal to emotion, another fallacy. "How many medical experts have you spoken to about vaccines?" Appeal to authority, again. Namedropping the various folks at various departments of health whom I've spoken with about this will not 'prove' anything. The argument should stand on its own, without recourse to celebrity. "How many books have you read? How many studies have you read?" Many, including those disproving the only study to have claimed the aformentioned alleged 'link'. "Anyone who is at least interested in educating themselves" ...would do far better to take a course in basic logic and biology, like I said before, rather than reading that crackpot bit of nonsense. "I realise I am wasting my time here," Then why post? " I am sick of uneducated people bashing those who are anti-vaccine when they're uninformed. " Ad hominem, again. "If you've done all the research and still feel it's bogus, then fair play to you." I have, thank you. " someone I know" Friend of a friend third-hand knowledge is not valid for consideration, thank you. "Please, educate yourself. READ studies on vaccines etc... And I mean government studies, not the PR material that the companies put out." Yes, and that's why I know the alleged link was disproved. For someone who claims not to indulge in fallacy, you've certainly a great deal of it in your post.

Re:Conspiracy nutters won't be discouraged

[Stormcrow309]

Cite or get off the pot. Speaking of which, I would suggest this paper and this paper as a good start. There is major concern from Thimerosal toxicity in long term treatments, such as blood plasma programs, due to the introduction of more Thimerosal to the system then ethylmercury, the type of mercury that Thimerosal becomes, can be cleared. However, there seems to be more risk from dental amalgam then a single vaccination. Concern should be for long term series, such as a long term gamma globulin series, which is becoming rare.

Re:Conspiracy nutters won't be discouraged

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow...

He puts the same level of fact (and coincidentally, about the same mix of ad hominem and frustration) as in your original post, and you tear him apart.

Re:Conspiracy nutters won't be discouraged

[DES]

And to be honest, your attitude is sickening. If you had a child who was suffering from autism, you'd do anything you could to try and help them. Indeed. If I had children who were suffering from autism, I would do anything I could to try to help them. But running around trying to find someone to pin the blame on would not help them at all; in fact, it would rob them of what they, like any other children, need most, which is their parents' time and attention and tender love and care.

Western society (and, it seems, the US in particular) has developed into a culture of blame. In some ways, it is understandable, as it is much easier to find someone to blame and from whom to demand retribution than to face up to the harsh realities of life, but it is not very productive. People need to understand that life is hard and often unfair, that they need to take responsibility for themselves and their kin, and that sometimes things get broken that you just can't fix - you have to cope and move on.

Autism is a very complex subject. Autism-spectrum disorders are actually much more common than one would think, and statistics seem to show they are on the rise. Part of the reason is that it was previously (and may still be) underdiagnosed due to social stigma and a poor understanding of the milder forms. Another part of it is that there seems to be a correlation between autism-spectrum disorders and other characteristics which are favorable to success and survival in an industrial society, which basically means that natural selection is currently working in favor of autism (just like natural selection works in favor of sickle-cell anemia in parts of Africa because it is linked with improved resistance to malaria). The most blatant evidence in favor of the latter interpretation is that autism-spectrum disorders seem to occur more often in children whose parents both work in IT or engineering.

Personally, I suspect that once we come to realize and accept that far more people thank we think suffer from varying degrees of autism, it will become clear that autism is in fact hereditary and that neither Thimerosal nor any other chemicals really have anything to do with it.

By the way, autism is far more survivable / treatable than was previously believed (or than many people still seem to think). Forget Rain Man; many autistic children who even thirty years ago would have been doomed to a life in an institution can actually be taught to function in normal life if you take the time to try to understand them (something medical professionals used to think was below their dignity). Elizabeth Moon (author of the Paksenarrion series) was told some twenty-odd years ago that her son was congenitally incapable of processing language, yet she taught him to speak, and to interact socially, and in the process developed a different idea of what autism is than what was prevalent at the time (in particular, she considers autism a developmental problem rather than a cognitive one). She has also written both fiction and non-fiction on the subject, which you may find worth your time to look up.

Re:Conspiracy nutters won't be discouraged

[domatic]

This parent of an autistic child became a hard boiled skeptic on "miracle cures" like chelation very quickly. Some autistics DO respond favorably to a restricted diet but but by no means all. The only thing that I'm convinced works consistently is intensive structured activities. I'm honestly not sure whether or under what conditions thimerosal is harmful. Even if it isn't terribly harmful to adults, I have severe doubts about pumping large amounts of it into very small very young bodies. It is true that correlation isn't causation but some of our child's most heartbreaking regressions came shortly after vaccines. It is very very easy to be blasé about such things if you aren't faced with parenting such a child and if you are it is very very easy to agonize over whether something you allowed to happen damaged your child.

I also wonder whether the vaccines themselves aggravate a tendency towards autism disorders. Thimerosal may well be a red herring masking something real. Our kids get hep-b shots pumped into them immediately after birth and a whole rainbow of shots come in the first year. Vaccinating is done much more aggressively then when I was a kid. 20 or 30 years ago, many of these shots weren't given until between the ages of 4 and 6. The most critical neurological developments take place in the first five years of life and it is only recently that we started vaccinating the hell out of kids that young.

When my child was less than a year old and we were new parents, it seemed to me that the relative risk of disease versus negative effects of vaccines favored getting the shots. We've had a lot of anguish over whether that was the right thing to do. So I'm no conspiracy theorist but you might want to try a mile in these shoes before dismissing concerns about vaccines so readily.

Re:And it isn't even used in vacciens anymore

[Altus]

Don't forget the added "benefit" that now people are extra scared of vaccines because of all of this.

Re:But, but, but,

[darken9999]

Why would someone hate vacations?

Re:Inaccurate

[Mordac]

Thimerasol includes Mercury in the way that Water includes Hydrogen.

The link to autism has never been there, every study has shown it. Its time to spend money looking for the real culprit and not blaming vaccines.

A more likely route is look at the age of the fathers, there seems to be evidence pointing to parental age having to be a likely cause of autism rates rising (that and the mass over diagnosis, and more mental illnesses being classified as Autism.)

This is not a simple issue. And the mercury = autism people are just trying to make it easier, and instead make it harder for everyone.

They'll just blame something else in vaccines

[tgibbs]

After all, other countries have eliminated or dramatically reduced mercury in vaccines with zero effect on autism rates, and the mercury fanatics never batted an eye. Nor are they troubled by the fact that the neurological effects of actual mercury poisoning don't resemble autism.

It's a bit like homeopathy in reverse. Many of these guys have a superstitious fear of "toxins," and no matter how low the level might be, they will be convinced that it is poisoning their kids.

Of course, the real problem is that the age at which autism symptoms develop is about the same as the age when kids normally get their shots. A reasoned explanation of the difference between correlation and causality is often beyond the grasp of parents who are desperate for an explanation, or better yet, somebody to blame.

Re:They'll just blame something else in vaccines

[tgibbs]

Autism symptoms don't develop at 2 months, the time when the first vaccine is mandated.

Or, heck, even at birth, now that Hep-B shots before leaving the hospital are all the rage.

And you are presenting this in favor of the hypothesis that vaccines cause autism? Seriously?

With "factual analysis" by morons like you backing them up, it's little wonder crap statistical analyses like "this doesn't cause Autism" is the major focus, when spending the money on finding out what *does* cause it would be real science, but that ain't happenin'.

And who told you this? The guys selling "vaccines cause autism" books and quack chelation therapy? I was at the Neuroscience meeting in San Diego last year, and I saw row on row of posters describing work on the causes of autism. Try this: go to PubMed and type "autism" into the search box. There have been some important recent breakthroughs indicating a genetic basis for autism. Identifying the genes is an important step toward figuring out what goes wrong and developing a therapy. What doesn't contribute is investing yet more time and money pursuing the long-rejected notion that mercury or vaccines causes autism.

If you had half a brain cell to rub together, you might also be interested in this article, which has not been refuted by anyone.

Oh wow, an article in the respected scientific journal Rolling Stone. And it has not been refuted by anyone? Not even here? Or here? Or here? Or here?

This is established

[Otter]

The link between thimerosal and autism has already been pretty thoroughly disproven. (Link to a blog rather than the paper because 1) it's a good summary and 2) I'm not sure whether the link is freely readable.) Whatever merit this hypothesis had in the past, any future work on it that "activists" manage to force clearly comes at the expense of projects that might be genuinely useful.

Re:Trigger, not cause

[seebs]

A fascinating theory, but one as yet unsupported by data, and indeed, contrary to the data.

Even if it were just "triggering" autism, the removal of thimerosal would, eventually, result in a change of the frequency of observed autism. It doesn't.

Re:Mercury

[Dr.Enormous]

Sodium(0) catches fire/explodes on contact with water.
Sodium(I) is critical for sustaining life.

Just because Mercury is toxic, and organomercury compounds will kill you stone dead, doesn't mean every single compound with mercury in it isn't safe. Oxidation state and ligands make all the difference. Linking to "Mercury hazards" is meaningless.

Re:But, but, but,

[wilson_c]

No, the scientists and physicians who claimed a link have been in a very small minority. Nice attempt to discredit the climate science by implication, though.

The anti-thimerisol movement has been driven largely by parents of autistic children looking for an explanation (I'm not unsympathetic, but that shouldn't affect the scientific method) and the anti-vaccination lobby, which is a mix of paranoiacs and people who can't see that a small number of vaccine-caused deaths is preferable to a larger number of disease-caused deaths.

There are actually legitimate health concerns related to the use of mercury as a preservative, but since they are not as dramatic or emotionally charged as the subject of autism, they seldom enter the discussion.

Furthermore, even in the case where scientific consensus MAY be wrong, it's most sensible for those not directly involved in research challenging the consensus to proceed as if it is correct, unless doing so were demonstrably damaging. For instance, it is pretty sensible to respond to climate change by increasing energy efficiency wherever possible. Worst case scenario is improved productivity, competitiveness, and profit. If, on the other hand, increased efficiency came at the cost of infecting every person with leprosy, then global warming denialists might have more of a point.

Re:Any contradictory beliefs must be beaten down

[slcdb]

Most likely, there are a number of things that are causing a rise in the rate of children diagnosed with autism. What makes the anti-thimerosal camp so certain that it can be pinned down on any one thing?

Here are my top five "better suggestions":

5) Increased genetic susceptibility among the human race as a whole.
4) Increased awareness of autism spectrum disorders.
3) Better diagnostic methods.
2) Relaxed criteria for positive diagnosis.

And my #1 favorite:

1) Any of a number of synthetic chemicals children might be exposed to in increasing amounts today, rather than decreasing amounts like thimerosal.

It could be any combination of any, all, or none of the above. Chances are it's more than just one thing and, as this study suggests, thimerosal does not appear to be one of them.

Re:Any contradictory beliefs must be beaten down

[Dachannien]

Global Warming.
Increasing gas mileage and alternate energy
Voting machine fraud, WMD's, Kennedy, John Lennon, Ghandi, Tim Leary,
GM vs. Organic food. Smoking causing or not causing cancer, Marijuana
Tesla, Laithwaite, Hutchinson, Darwin, Galileo, Copernicus, Columbus
Perendev, Searl, Cold Fusion, The Earth Being round, String Theory, E8,Quantum Physics , Roswell
Jesus, Moses, Noah, The Ark of the covenant, the chalice, Troy, 12/12/2012, the holocaust, revelations. Everybody now! We didn't start the fire....