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Thimerosal Does Not Cause Autism
jamie found an article over at Washington Monthly discussing the recent finding that there is no link between thimerosal and autism. It seems that after the mercury-based vaccine preservative was withdrawn from use in 1999, no drop in autism rates has been observed in a large California study. Here's the Science Daily writeup on the study, published in the Archives of General Psychiatry.
That chemical preservative isn't used anymore because of Autism fears...
Because of that our vaccines are significantly les stable and have shorter shelf lives!
Given that the folks shrieking the loudest about the thimerosal-autism 'link' (as if a single study that's since been discredited many, many times can be called a 'link') tend to be parents of autistic children who also tend to go in for bogus new-age nonsense like 'chelation' and 'collodial silver' treatments, I don't think the whole nonsense is quite over yet. It's definitely a nice step in the right direction, but no amount of proof will really convince conspiracy theorists that their pet paranoia is without merit--they merely will claim that the 'truth' is being 'covered up' by the Big Pharmaceutical companies, and that the government is out to poison your children with the evil vaccinations that 'confuse your immune system' leaving you 'open to illness.' Most of them would benefit from a good solid course in basic logic (to overturn the fallacies they base their 'theories' on) and in basic biology and chemistry. The best we can hope for, I suppose, is that they'll select themselves out of the gene pool by applying nonsensical and hazardous treatments to themselves and their offspring.
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A stately pleasure dome decree
I don't think in most cases it's about money. As a parent, there's a very low-level part of the brain that has a real need to defend one's child, and that means identifying threats to them and protecting them. When something goes wrong, there's a huge emotional drive to figure out what caused it, and to protect any other children from that threat. I'm sure there are a few folks who are in it for the money, but I think most of them just feel a need to figure out what caused harm to their child. Have a little compassion, these folks are having to deal with enormous life changes for both their child and themselves.
1984 was supposed to be a warning, not an instruction manual.
Why would someone hate vacations?
Thimerasol includes Mercury in the way that Water includes Hydrogen.
The link to autism has never been there, every study has shown it. Its time to spend money looking for the real culprit and not blaming vaccines.
A more likely route is look at the age of the fathers, there seems to be evidence pointing to parental age having to be a likely cause of autism rates rising (that and the mass over diagnosis, and more mental illnesses being classified as Autism.)
This is not a simple issue. And the mercury = autism people are just trying to make it easier, and instead make it harder for everyone.
After all, other countries have eliminated or dramatically reduced mercury in vaccines with zero effect on autism rates, and the mercury fanatics never batted an eye. Nor are they troubled by the fact that the neurological effects of actual mercury poisoning don't resemble autism.
It's a bit like homeopathy in reverse. Many of these guys have a superstitious fear of "toxins," and no matter how low the level might be, they will be convinced that it is poisoning their kids.
Of course, the real problem is that the age at which autism symptoms develop is about the same as the age when kids normally get their shots. A reasoned explanation of the difference between correlation and causality is often beyond the grasp of parents who are desperate for an explanation, or better yet, somebody to blame.
The link between thimerosal and autism has already been pretty thoroughly disproven. (Link to a blog rather than the paper because 1) it's a good summary and 2) I'm not sure whether the link is freely readable.) Whatever merit this hypothesis had in the past, any future work on it that "activists" manage to force clearly comes at the expense of projects that might be genuinely useful.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
A fascinating theory, but one as yet unsupported by data, and indeed, contrary to the data.
Even if it were just "triggering" autism, the removal of thimerosal would, eventually, result in a change of the frequency of observed autism. It doesn't.
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Sodium(0) catches fire/explodes on contact with water.
Sodium(I) is critical for sustaining life.
Just because Mercury is toxic, and organomercury compounds will kill you stone dead, doesn't mean every single compound with mercury in it isn't safe. Oxidation state and ligands make all the difference. Linking to "Mercury hazards" is meaningless.
No, the scientists and physicians who claimed a link have been in a very small minority. Nice attempt to discredit the climate science by implication, though.
The anti-thimerisol movement has been driven largely by parents of autistic children looking for an explanation (I'm not unsympathetic, but that shouldn't affect the scientific method) and the anti-vaccination lobby, which is a mix of paranoiacs and people who can't see that a small number of vaccine-caused deaths is preferable to a larger number of disease-caused deaths.
There are actually legitimate health concerns related to the use of mercury as a preservative, but since they are not as dramatic or emotionally charged as the subject of autism, they seldom enter the discussion.
Furthermore, even in the case where scientific consensus MAY be wrong, it's most sensible for those not directly involved in research challenging the consensus to proceed as if it is correct, unless doing so were demonstrably damaging. For instance, it is pretty sensible to respond to climate change by increasing energy efficiency wherever possible. Worst case scenario is improved productivity, competitiveness, and profit. If, on the other hand, increased efficiency came at the cost of infecting every person with leprosy, then global warming denialists might have more of a point.
I love the way my earlier post is modded as a troll. NOTE TO FUCKWIT MOD: Having a contrary opinion backed up by actual knowledge is NOT a troll.
Do you have links to your "actual knowledge" for verification? Note that GeoCities pages with animated spinning GIF skulls and flames are not considered reliable sources of information.
I do sympathize with these parents, profoundly. But the fact is that very few of them have the expertise or the knowledge to make valid judgments about this issue, and yet they continue to spread unsupported claims about vaccination as though they were facts. This is potentially harmful to others and should be curtailed, regardless of how noble or humane their motivations might be.
That's for sure. My nephew is autistic, and I have met some of the other children who receive IBI therapy with him. I know that autism is a continuum and not a binary variable, but I think that calling some of those kids autistic is a bit of a stretch. Admittedly, I an no expert in such matters, and for all I know, the expanded diagnosis criteria is correct.
Still, I wonder if doctors aren't diagnosing some children with autism who would have been diagnosed as mentally disabled a few years ago. Either analysis would be very difficult for a parent to hear, but autism would be the least traumatic assessment.
*** Where are we going? And what's with this handbasket?
Regardless of the Autisim link (which was thin at best) ethylmercury hasn't had the sort of widescale toxicity tests that bioaccumulating mercury compounds (e.g methylmercury) have had.
Until that point, I'm not big on the idea of injecting a solution containing a large amount of ethylmercury into my body. Most mercury compounds aren't really anything that anyone would want to inject.
It's no better to be irrationally pro-ethylmercury just because it's a good preservative...The reason the uninformed freak out so easily is because we leave ourselves open to this crap by not doing to full research.
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
Thimerasol has NOT been ruled out in causing individual cases of autism. Just that it is not the SOLE cause of autism. It's still a documented fact that US infants exposure to thimerosal increased starting around 1990, and that correlates with a huge spike in autism rates. ..... It doesn't say thimerosal is safe, the study just shows it's not the ONLY cause of the tenfold increase in the rates of autism.
Correction, there's been a big increase in the rates of diagnosis of autism, which is an entirely different thing. Right before the so-called "spike" the medical journals were full of articles which resulted in the reclassification of behavioral problems previously classified under a plethora of different labels. This is natural, and a part of what happens when our understanding of a disorder improves.
In a related note, there are precious few cases of "consumption" being diagnosed lately, and yet the number of people with drug-resistant TB continues to rise.
Another example: for many decades, the estimate of the number of stars in our galaxy rose and rose, more each time a new monster telescope was built. Were the number of stars actually increasing, or was it just our ability to detect them that changed?
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I met an Autism specialist who works for the school districts here in NY. She had some very interesting things to say about the increased rates. She said Autism wasn't increasing, just more children are being labeled Autistic. This is because children labeled autistic get all kinds of extra aid from the government that children who are just deemed learning disabled or have psychological problems don't get. So parents with mentally disabled children are increasingly encouraged to have their child autistic. It made sense to me, instead of some bogey man vaccine.
Curiously though I think there is a distinct lack of studies that show how the use of multiple vaccines at earlier ages affect autism. Given that a child's immune system is at best only partially developed before the age of six months, it's somewhat irritating to me that doctors regularly inject 7 vaccines at a time into children as young as 1 month of age. My own son developed infantile spasms (a degenerative seizure disorder) a week after his 3 month checkup where he was inject with the MMR, DtAP, and Varicella vaccines (MMR and DtAP each are combinations of 3 vaccines, giving him 7 total).
Anecdotally, of the 6 children in my son's special education kindergarten class, 3 of the children developed seizure disorders within a week of similar vaccinations, one of which was administered at one week of age. Most countries wait until at least 6 months of age before beginning the injections of MMR and DtAP vaccines.
Personally I think that thimerisol is a red herring distracting folks from considering any contributing factors of age and volume of vaccines administered. I think we'd do well to compare current vaccinations correlation to autism versus a program that staggers vaccinations with individual vaccines starting at 6 months of age to see how much that contributes to the rate of autism.
Unbreakable toys can be used to break other toys.
No, but I know that Wapner's on at 4.
I have no idea why these earlier tests aren't being used (looking for rapid excessive head growth, lack of eye contact, etc) - especially since they don't require fancy equipment or major investments.
I find the head growth particularly fascinating (here's a link to the abstract)
http://jcn.sagepub.com/cgi/content/short/22/10/1182
Most likely, there are a number of things that are causing a rise in the rate of children diagnosed with autism. What makes the anti-thimerosal camp so certain that it can be pinned down on any one thing?
Here are my top five "better suggestions":
5) Increased genetic susceptibility among the human race as a whole.
4) Increased awareness of autism spectrum disorders.
3) Better diagnostic methods.
2) Relaxed criteria for positive diagnosis.
And my #1 favorite:
1) Any of a number of synthetic chemicals children might be exposed to in increasing amounts today, rather than decreasing amounts like thimerosal.
It could be any combination of any, all, or none of the above. Chances are it's more than just one thing and, as this study suggests, thimerosal does not appear to be one of them.
Despite what EULAs say, most software is sold, not licensed.
Well, mercury on its own isn't particularly toxic. However, most organic mercury compounds are toxic, usually more so than mercury itself. In fact, one of the nastiest chemicals around, dimethylmercury, is an organic mercury compound - incredibly toxic, passes rapidly through all types of laboratory gloves, no real treatment. (This was first discovered after a chemist spilled a couple of drops on her glove by accident. She didn't show symptoms until several months later, then died a few weeks after that despite receiving the best treatment available.) Thimerasol may well be harmless, but your argument is too simplistic.
Is that the active ingredient in flour?
I do understand. My sister has an autistic son as does my wife's brother. They level of autism is vastly different as are the distances. I hate to use the word ignorance because frankly I am pretty ignorant when it comes to biology. I would but my knowledge at about the same level as a good first year college student but not any higher. I would say it is more fear, panic, and guilt. If it is genetic then it is one or both of the parents faults "in their mind". If it is something in the environment then it is their fault for not protecting their child "in there mind". If it is a vaccination that they where told was safe because some company put in a harmful chemical then it really isn't their fault. Guilt is a terrible motivator but a very human one. Unless your involved with an autistic child I doubt you can understand just what is like. I agree with everybody when they say that vacinations are not the cause. What I am simply saying is that judging these people without a big dose of compassion, understanding, and maybe just a bit of empathy isn't helpful.
What the worlds needs now is empathy and more understanding. But that is just my opinion.
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But I had NO issues with the vaccine having thiemerasol. WHy? Because there has been NOTHING credible about it in 10 years. In fact, 2 of the 3 scientist who wrote the ONLY real paper on it, now refute it. Were either of my children injected with it? I have no idea. There are FAR more important issues to worry about rather than something as ridiculous as that.
BTW, children can die by water, even in a bath. ANd that is fact, not just "alter" of science. I know. I have pulled them from the bottom of a lake. You going to keep your children out of the tub as well as not allow them to drink water?
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Nobody here seems to be aware of where this rumour started. The doctor responsible, Wakefield, published an article with cooked results largely on the request of an ambulance-chasing law firm which was suing the drug companies, and for whom Wakefield was making a lucrative career as an expert witness. The motivation was greed, pure and simple. Wakefield's article got picked up by reporters in England and they made an hour documentary about it on TV, and all hell broke loose.
It quickly became obvious to other doctors and researchers that Wakefield cooked his results, but the media fear machine was already in high gear. Wakefield is finished as a doctor for his mind-boggling ethical breaches. The entire thing was a hoax, and yet look at all the people who actually think there is a link... to this day. There never was.
There are, however, hundreds of kids who are now paralyzed because their parents decided not to give them vaccinations. Many of these diseases can infect the spinal cord and damage it. Furthermore, the diseases have now made a comeback, and mutating, and may soon evolve into strains for which there are no vaccines. At that point, there will be thousands of kids dying or paralyzed as a result of the efforts of a lot of cranks who have no medical knowledge beyond "Mercury Bad!" Like people who wince and gag when a wiff of tobacco smoke drifts their way, thinking that a single atom will transform them instantly into a tumour, these idiots forget what even the ancient Greeks knew--that poisons become poisons by the dosage. Your body can handle low dosages of all kinds of toxic shit--it does so all the time.
The reason that autism is rising is that the number of systemetizers in the population, people like programmers, engineers, scientists--basically, nerds--is increasing, and certain job pools, and hobbies, draw nerds together. The biggest boon to nerd socializing was the internet. Now you actually have nerds marrying and having kids. Previously, being generally shy and often lacking social skills, nerds had a hard time finding each other. Autistics are extreme systemetizers. I'm quite certain that if I met and married a girl as nerdy as I am and we had four kids, at least one would be autistic. Look at the Wired article on Ausperger's Syndrome. And if you're a coder, look around at your co-workers. I'm sure you've met at least one textbook case of Auspergers in your career.
I forget where I first read this (I think it was one of the Quackwatch articles). Credit to whomever first said it.
Oxygen and hydrogen are explosive and flammable gasses. Water is made of oxygen and hydrogen. It is obviously wrong, though, to posit that drinking water will cause a person to catch fire and explode.
It's not a completely parallel situation, natch, but it's vivid enough an example that people might actually listen.
The infrastructure makes a real difference in the need for good preservatives, agreed. That said, there are lots of reasons to go ahead and build that infrastructure in the third world.
1. lots of clinics with reliable refrigeration will let those clinics preserve samples where an outbreak of something really nasty, such as Ebola Zaire, is suspected. Better roads, or even runways and committed planes, will let local governments and the UN respond to such outbreaks more quickly. A dedicated radio type link would let them be reported more quickly, in the first place.
Malaria is affected by sickle cell trait and it can be useful to have blood samples and test populations to see how many have a sickle cell gene on just one side of their code, as they are resistant to Malaria's spread. The UN has expressed an interest in being able to test rural populations in bulk and get advance predictions for which ones are more vulnerable to Malaria epidemics. Right now, such testing involves trying to take a random sample of a small percentage of people and hopefully get ones who are not more closely genetically related than the average for the area, which is pretty tricky.
2. There are other medications that need refrigerated or transported quickly besides vaccines. Some of the statin drugs, for example, are both light and heat sensitive, time sensitive, and extremely useful but have to be given in large quantities - too large to want to use a mercury based preservative even if the smaller amounts found in vaccines are completely safe. Anti-parasite drugs, particularly targeting some of the larger worms, commonly have this problem too (you probably don't want to know more).
Some vaccines don't work well with mercury preservatives and sometimes, development of a new vaccine has been stopped because it didn't do well in small scale trials just because it wasn't ruggedized enough to stay effective in the areas where that disease was prevalent.
Who is John Cabal?
Do not conflate the MMR theory with that of thimerosal as a cause of autism. The two are totally different: the former postulates that, for a subsection of the population, the immune system is overwhelmed by the sudden introduction of 3 viruses, causing damage to the intestinal tract and possible crossing of the blood-brain barrier and neurological damage. The latter theory postulates that, for a different subsection of the population, an inability to properly flush out toxic mercury leads to its accretion in the brain, also causing similar neurological damage. Different causes (although both potentially arising out of vaccination), same symptoms (symptoms which, not incidentally, resemble those of heavy metal poisoning), both very hard to test for (since they require both genetic predisposition and particular causes).
It's very hard to prove a negative, and since the mercury theory is just one of many possible contributing causes to the autism explosion (numbers not sufficiently explained by better diagnoses, since we would otherwise see the same percentage of undiagnosed adults in the general population with untreated autism spectrum disorders of similar severity, and we just don't), the fact that thimerosal has been eliminated but a continued rise is seen does *not* therefore disprove the thimerosal hypothesis. All it says is that, for the population tested, those specific individuals may have had their autism brought on by other factors besides thimerosal.
Whether or not the autism link is significant, I am personally thrilled (as a parent of one child on the spectrum and others who aren't) that we are eliminating mercury from injections given to our children--why put a known neurotoxin into their bloodstreams, particularly at such a young age? As for the MMR, the easiest approach (which we followed) was to find a pediatrician willing to seek out the vaccines in single form rather than bunched, to allow potentially sensitive children to get one at a time, absorb it, and then get the next. It also makes sense to actually test children for immunity rather than giving boosters blindly. {ProfJonathan}
(P.s. My son who is on the spectrum is a budding animator. See his stop motion, Flash and mashups here.)
Most countries wait until at least 6 months of age before beginning the injections of MMR and DtAP vaccines. First off, its DTaP, not DtAP (which becomes important below.)
Second your statement is quite untrue. If you look at the WHO's vaccine information, you can see the vaccine schedules for various countries. http://www.who.int/vaccines/globalsummary/immunization/scheduleselect.cfm
If you search for DTaP, you will indeed find that many countries list the first time they give this as a much older age than we do in the US. However, this is not because they leave their kids vulnerable, but because the first diphtheria, tetanus, and pertussis vaccinations are often given with DTwP which is cheaper. In older kids, if you use the whole cell pertussis component they have worse side effects (which are rare in infants and younger children). So you use the cheap DTwP first, then the DTaP later in childhood. So stating that 'most countries' give DTaP at a much later age is misleading at best.
Anecdotally, The plural of anecdote is 'not data'.
Your prior post assumes that all people who believe that autism is caused by vaccination simply don't vaccinate. However, the more educated either look for single vaccines (DTaP, HepB, IPV) instead of the "cocktails" (Pediarix) which use thimerosal as a binding agent or we choose a different vaccination schedule (waiting 12 months before starting the HepB cycle instead of getting it right out of the womb) from what is recommended if we can't get those vaccines in individual shots.
As for vaccines being "one-time only", I am unaware of a vaccine that doesn't require some sort of booster shot after a period of time. In fact, the chicken pox vaccine was recently discovered to require a booster now that some of the long term studies have been completed. I could accept vaccines possibly having a smaller profit margin than other pharmaceuticals, but vaccines are also more widely and regularly disseminated and administered which still means substantial profit for the manufacturer. Sure the cost of something like Lipotor may be higher, but how many third-world countries are concerned about heart failure when the flu could kill them?
You know, Custer had a plan.