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Negroponte vs Intel
Yogi_Stewart_4 writes "More OLPC/Intel love — apparently Intel used 'underhanded' tactics to try to block sales' contracts of the OLPC, trying to reach the customer directly after an agreement had been reached.
"They would go in even after we had signed contracts and try to persuade government officials to scrap their contract and sign a contract with them instead. That's not a partnership."
Mr Negroponte cited an example in Peru where Intel sales staff tried to persuade the country's vice-minister of education, Oscar Becerra Tresierra, to buy the Intel Classmate PC."
Or maybe he wants children to use open source software not windows?
Extreme Programming - Redundant Array of Inexpensive Developers
>If Negroponte really just carted about the kids, and not his own ego, ...
...
If Intel cared about the kids and not their profits
What I want to know is ... is there a hidden 3rd party pushing Intel *cough*Microsoft*cough*? Intel's device is available with Windows XP. I wouldn't at all be surprised to find out that our "friends" in Redmond are responsible for this in order to get their software into the emerging world instead of Linux.
Well, maybe it has something to do with the fact Intel signed an agreement with OLPC? If I were running a business and one of my subcontractors ran off behind my back trying to poach clients, I'd be a tad pissed off too.
... and a partner firm sabotaging sales agreements is most certainly a threat.
Even with a "humanitarian" purpose, OLPC has to be aware of threats to its overall business sustainability
No, he wants kids to have good laptops and good educational materials. The Intel Classmate PC does not qualify on either count!
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
The flaw lies in that Intel promised to NOT poach like they seem to have been doing and did it anyway.
It's not that Negroponte has an ego (but everyone is seizing on the fact the man DOES have a big ego...)
but that Intel didn't live up to it's promises. If the stunt in Peru is provable, then Intel DOES have
a big bit of explaining to do- and what Negroponte has been saying isn't QUITE the "hogwash" they're
claiming it is.
It's not that he doesn't want laptops in the hands of kids. He wants education TOOLS in the hands of
kids. Unfortunately, all the Classmate devices seem to be is indoctrination tools for Microsoft products
as opposed to engines to be re-worked, etc. to teach thinking in addition to knowledge. OLPC's goal is
that. All the Classmate seems to be is discounted Windows stuff for kids and calling it "education".
I've a problem with that.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
My current system is an old AMD dual system, and with the way Intel is acting on the world stage, I'm sticking with AMD for my next system.
Blar.
This is a troll above. Truth is even in regular for profit business if a partner company did this to my group of companies i would kick them to the curb in a split second. It is not about profits this is about being outright dishonest. You do not do business with dishonest companies.....plain and simple. Unless you enjoy getting screwed over. Why waste your time and efforts working with a dishonest partner? I know i do not and have survived as a US maker of Audio products (OEM level) for more than 40 years. Never underestimate the power of being honest and keeping your word....it will allow you to survive long after all the other bigger players have either went bankrupt or sold to off shore companies because they are no longer viable to operate here. I have seen and purchased many of those whom thought they were so smart and keen (and dishonest) yet my company is still in the USA and still making jobs and growing....and making a nice profit....why....becuase when a customer partners with me....they know they will not be screwed over. 40+years and counting....:) I wish Negroponte the best , he should have known that the likes of MS and intel cannot be trusted they are NOT honorable companies. Yes they have made huge profits....but i sleep very well at night and customers i have had for 30+ years call me more than supplier, many consider me close personal friend. Those who say business is only about profits....need to take an ethics course or 10 and also need to realize it is not just about profits. Many times ive made the choice that was less profitable or not profitable but was the RIGHT thing to do. What will you do when pressed by such a situation? Will you choose profit or what is right? The answer will determine if you really are an enlightened individual or just a blood sucker. Thats the difference.
. I love the sound of burning women and screaming rubber....
It doesn't matter how badly Intel wanted to sell their more expensive, less functional copy of the OLPC laptop. It is simply unethical to use insider information to quash a deal and sign a separate one yourself with a client.
This is a big black mark against Intel and should serve as a warning to future partners that they can't be trusted at all. I mean you can't get much worse publicity than "deliberately sabotaged a charitable organization". Maybe the CEO of Intel would like follow it up by kicking puppies and eating babies?
Fanatically anti-fanatical
That's an interesting issue but your answer is naive.
Non-profits and for-profits are more alike than people think. If a non-profit doesn't pay the electricity bills, the lights go off. If a non-profit program doesn't reach sufficient volume, its unit costs go through the roof because of the fixed costs are amortized over fewer units. Just like a for-profit.
The difference between non-profits and for-profits is why they do what they do, not how.
If there are 270,000 children who need laptops in Peru, a non-profit would try to equip as many of them as humanly possible. A for-profit will try to equip the number of children which would maximize its profits. For example, suppose Intel's profits are maximized by equipping 135,000 children in Peru. The government would buy more if the price were lower, but Intel's profit margin would be lower. Intel could increase its unit margin so that it made more on each PC, but Peru would buy sufficiently fewer that the net profits would decrease.
The difference between a non-profit and a for-profit is that a for-profit never considers costs that are external to itself, such as the cost of 135,000 children who grow up without access to information and the world economy. A non-profit internalizes as much of that cost as possible.
When two for-profits compete, they try to poach the plum contracts from each other, and it doesn't matter. They both act in exactly the same way, so the differences between the two are small. When either looks at a population of 270,000 customers, 135,000 of which don't have enough money to play, they see a market of 135,000, give or take a few, plus 135,000 non-entities who they have no intention of serving. When they compete with each other, the more efficient of the two might equip 140,000, and the less efficient might equip 120,000, and so market efficiencies maximize the public benefit, if the only choice is between two entities that weigh the public benefit in exactly the same manner.
When a for-profit cherry picks the plum contracts from a non-profit, it's a different matter altogether. The efficient for profit equips 140,000 where the non-profit would equip 270,000. What's more the non-profit can't pick up the slack, because (a) there's no money and (b) they are amortizing their costs over fewer units so they can no longer provide product at lower prices than the for-profit.
Right or wrong? You decide. But it's certainly about more than personal ego. It's about educating students whom it is not profitable to equip; and if it is not profitable, it will never happen.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
I don't think MSFT is the driver, more of a means to an end for Intel. Their interests are aligned at some level but mainly Intel wants to sell chips. I'm guessing they don't care which OS runs as long as they can keep a finger in the emerging market pie.
MS and Intel have common goals, but that could change.
What's more interesting is the callous, self-serving manner Intel is undermining a project trying to help people. It's pathetic. Lacking in even basic decency. You can claim corporations exist only for profit but it hasn't always been that way. It's a fairly recent development that we have have, at least corporately, started to turn into the Ferengi. And there are limits. When you start undermining humanitarian projects in order to protect your market position, you're over that line.
Maybe Negroponte should just pull off the gloves and make a deal with Wal-Mart and Costco to carry OLPC's. Use the profits to donate machines to developing nations. Or use the profits to cut schools in this country a big discount. If Intel and MS want a war, give them a war.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
Disgusting behaviour like this by Intel is why I'll never use Wintel and only buy Apple
29 mpg. YMMV.
From Intel's website:
Corporate Mailing Address
2200 Mission College Blvd.
Santa Clara, CA 95054-1549
USA
(408) 765-8080
A phone call or a snail mail letter will go a long way toward letting Intel know it crossed the line.
Most large companies have a set of explicitly stated business rules that employees are expected to follow or face disciplinary action. Typically, employees are expected to periodically read and review these rules, and certify that they have done so and will follow them. Sometimes, these rules include explicit prohibitions against trying to sell when the potential customer has already placed a legally-enforceable order with a competitor. The rationale is simple, the order is a contract. You shouldn't encourage anybody to break a contract, because you would be encouraging them to break the law. Apparently, Intel's senior management apparently hasn't seen the need to set the bar that high for their employees. That's too bad and a black mark against Intel for sure. Just another reason to keep buying AMD.
Negroponte has a right to be upset. Intel shouldn't have been doing this against ANY competitor, must less one that they were cooperating with.
So the OLPC project is a religious crusade? Wonderful! And here I thought we were just trying to get educational tools into the hands of children.
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
It signed agreements with OLPC, so it has a responsibility to live up to that. "Maximising profits for shareholders" does not make it okay to break contracts, lie, cheat or steal, despite what many MBAs seem to think.
IF targeting the 3rd world, the classmate sucks:
a) There are cooling holes on it! Hello dirt and debris.
b) The keyboard is non ruggedized, at least compared to the XO.
c) It uses a conventional montior arrangement rather than the OLPC "behind the monitor" arrangement. This means that it has a complex, wire heavy connector through the hinge rather than just a USB and power connection.
I don't see how the classmate could last 6 months in a third world environment.
I question some of the OLPC's intent, but their hardware design blows away that Intel POS its not even funny.
Test your net with Netalyzr
I wanted to like the OLPC -- no I wanted to *love* the OLPC. I wanted to love it so much that I wanted to tell the world how awesome it was, and how everyone should participate in the give one get one program.
Then mine arrived in the mail.
Initial reactions were off the charts. The packaging was even excellent! The machine is sturdy, well-built, solid, cleverly designed, rugged, and absolutely perfect for it's purpose. I can't say enough about how many of the design decisions were fantastic. The keyboard was perhaps smaller than I had anticipated, but with the intended use case scenarios even that didn't detract from the brilliance of the hardware.
And then I turned it on.
Anyone who says that the interface is revolutionary or different is trying to put a nice spin on it. Yes, some of the organization and terminology is novel, and one could even praise some of the attempts at getting you to re-think how computers work. But the entire thing feels astonishingly like X Windows from the late 1980s. The interfaces are clunky and inconsistent, and worst of all it suffers from a pervasive design philosophy of "because we could" not "because we should." I could easily forgive a lack of graphical polish, but it's much more difficult to forgive the nearly-20-year giant leap backwards in interface design.
I know what the slashdot crowd is thinking... "it's open source! Write a new UI yourself!" but that's not the point. My point is that I wish the OLPC project had spent half the effort on the software that they did on the hardware -- if they had, then maybe we really would have a device that would change the world. Who knows... maybe a version 2 will have a new UI that actually will.
At the company I work for, the Code of Conduct we are required to review every year has an explicit prohibition against this sort of thing. The section is actually entitled "Selling Against a Signed Order". The code isn't that long, so the fact that there is a special section for this one situation shows how important it is.
If I were to try and sell against a signed order, I would be fired. Immediately. With no chance of appeal.
Encouraging a customer to break a signed contract could get both the customer and my company sued by the competitor for contract interference, and rightly so.
SirWired
Providing a choice is always a good thing. Do you like that Microsoft and Intel traditionally get to decide what is 'good' for us? Negroponte has at the very least been raising a lot of awareness about the state of education in poorer parts of the world. Even if you disagree with his solution and methods, and even if he has a big ego as a few people here are claiming, he's providing a choice and making the big boys like Intel notice, so he must be doing something right.
which is totally what she said
...but many customers are demanding Windows so the children can compete in the global job market.Which is sheer stupidity! Learning Windows is not what children need to compete in the global job market. A good education is what they need. Something that Negroponte, the educator, and Papert, the master behind the scenes who has devoted his life to studying how children learn, understand a bit better than Intel's sales flacks.
http://www.intel.com/pressroom/kits/bios/grove/paranoid.htm with 'only the paranoid survive'. Hey, those bleeding-heart commies have taken business that is rightfully OURS, that means war.
I'm fighting back this year by buying more and more from employee-owned (John Lewis, I'm from the UK) organisations, cooperatives (Telephone Coop, local credit union), mutuals (Royal London) and anything else that doesn't have shareholders and then lastly for-profits with a verifiable social agenda and a record of honourable behaviour (harder and harder to find though).
I'm having a hard time explaining that open-source/Windows is an ethical choice too, many people here seem to only understand that in the context of food-miles and sweatshops, not in the context of technology.
As I work for non-profits, they often say 'we get really good discounts from Microsoft', so we don't want any, without considering the deeper implications. I now send them to this: http://www.freegeekvancouver.org/en/node/125 comprehensive and well-stated.
On y va, qui mal y pense!
I wish I had a catchy name... "Bill's Law" just wont catch on. Anyway, here's why companies like Intel can both support OLPC with heartfelt charity, while at the same-time underhandedly stealing their market:
A corporation's actions are dictated by the weakest morals of it's leaders.
Corollary: The simplest way to make a corporation good is to have a strong ethical leader. I guarantee that the leaders involved in working with OLPC are honest people. I also guarantee the leaders involved in knee-capping OLPC are dishonest. A strong leader would find one personality for the company, and enforce it on the troops. Weak leaders allow multiple personalities to come forward when convenient.
Beer is proof that God loves us, and wants us to be happy.
"Classmate specs are better than XO. There is a bit of goods in XO hardware, but not all that much"
Depends on your definition of 'better'. I don't think the OLPC hardware should be underestimated. The Classmate may have a faster processor and more storage, but it also has a shorter battery life, no 'e-book' mode, no mesh network, isn't nearly as rugged or user serviceable, and costs more. Given that a 366MHz processor and 128MB RAM is a perfectly respectable combo as long as the software is tuned for it, flexibility and longevity ought to be a more significant factor than raw [on-paper] grunt.
There's a nice recent take-apart here:
http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=218
Obviously a great deal of thought and design has gone into these beasties. If only my own (much-battered) machines were built like that...
Before you go on the whole competition is good for laptops speech, remember that OLPC is not a laptop project, it is an education project.
The idea is to improve education in poorer countries, and the laptops are a means to an end, not an end in themselves. Intel's laptop sabotages the OLPC goal because it is a laptop project, not an education project. Remember that the OLPC comes with education based software and even has a "show me the code" button not to mention a screen which is very suitable for reading electronic books. They are carefully designed for education. Intel's laptops aren't. Therefore, competing with OLPC sabotages the goal of better education for poorer people.
Oh, and just to cover the other point, no, you can't eat a laptop, but that's not their purpose: they are not disaster relief tools either, they're education tools.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
The success of his project is dependent on getting enough orders to give them economy of scale savings. He is courting the wealthier countries right now, and as he gets more orders, he can reduce cost further, and reach a more and more impoverished market. If Intel uses this as a way to have OLPC do all the front work of identifying markets, getting in to talk with the people who can make the buying decisions, and then end-gaming them on the sale, they are not only hurting the success of the OLPC project and shortening its eventual reach, they are also directly stealing value from the project which did the initial effort investment. Some of these countries might not have talked to Intel directly, but had heard good things about this OLPC thing and so first entertained the idea only because of the merits brought by that project. Intel is therefore operating under the guise of friendship and help, while cannibalizing the underlying foundation of the project.
OLPC laptops are more open, more free, better designed, and less expensive. Intel ClassMate PC's are proprietary, less rugged, and require more power to operate. Worst of all they are for-profit, and those profits are sent to Intel stock holders, making wealthy business men wealthier at the expense of money which would better be used satisfying an educational need in the exact same arena as the laptop was advertised as intending to assist. They unnecessarily drain valuable resources from the very market they are pretending to aid.
Basically this is about as disgustingly slimy as I think they are able to be.
Slay a dragon... over lunch!
It's $50 cheaper than the Classmate PC. At $200 for the OLPC laptop that means that you can give five kids laptops for the same amount of money that you could give four kids the Classmate PC. And that's after the fact that the Linux discount saved them $35. Of course, one would assume that all the effort gone into designing an interface for children that encourages them to search and learn has some additional value. So basically the idea is to get more educational value for less price.
As for the advantages of open source, I'm not sure how long these kids will get to use the laptops, but 13, 14 year olds can do things that I can't think of.
I personally think that spending the money on books, libraries and teachers would work better. Atleast in my country (India), that is true, and I'm glad they backed off from the OLPC. However, Intel's actions are unconscionable any way. It is obvious their goals are different. Those few hundred thousand who won't get laptops because the price is higher won't matter to them.
"Intel has invested a billion dollars over the last 10 years alone in education around the world," said Mr Otellini.[Head of Intel]
Very telling indeed, but not in the way he intends it. He's basically saying they have high stakes in this market and, being a corporation, they expect a return on this investment.
He's basically giving away the motive for Intel to do such rotten things to the OLPC project.
---
"The chances of a demonic possession spreading are remote -- relax."
Well, the Classmate hardware specs *are* better than the XO -- but only "conventional" specs.
What about innovative features that the XO embodies? The sunlight readable screen, the tablet like e-book mode, the ultra low power capabilities, the mesh networking? Admittedly, you could argue that the mesh networking is as much software as hardware, but the hardware is a part of it.
In addition, is the Classmate as rugged as the XO?
I don't think just adding Sugar to the Classmate would match up. I submit that despite the higher specs on CPU speed, RAM, and storage, the Classmate hardware represents inferior hardware for the stated purpose as compared to the XO. Those specs are not very significant to the mission that both these units claim to aim at. The hardware advantages that the XO brings to the table *do* make a difference to that mission.
And it wouldn't be easy to save a ton of money by dropping Windows. MS is deathly afraid of non-MS OSes taking hold in the developing world -- they are offering Windows in that market at $3 a pop.
Ignorance killed the cat. Curiosity was framed.
he might also feel that putting a diesel generator right outside the window of the classroom so that the Classmate PC's can have power, just might not be good for the kids. I read in an interview where Intel came in an won a contract over the XO but when they got the laptops in the class, the inconsistent power they had would not allow for a full school day's use of the laptops. Intel brought in a diesel generator to provide constant power.
;-/
Somehow, it just doesn't seem to be a very efficient or effective way to get laptops to these kids. It is also a very good example of how the Classmate PC is not in the same league as the XO in its design goals.
So maybe Negroponte is on the warpath to keeping diesel fumes away from kids.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
You're not a kid in a developing country who might have never used a computer before. The machine has to be tactile, simple and responsive. Minimal eye candy to confuse, minimum text to aid understanding in as many languages as possible. You've seen it all, Jorge in Uruguay hasn't.
Intel should not have signed a non-compete agreement then.
It might be ok if they were just cold-calling countries.
It is a little shady if they try negotiating with countries which they already know OLPC is negotiating with.
It is downright unethical for them to go and ask countries to break their contract for OLPC's to get an Intel product.
It is pretty sleazy for Intel to figure that there is more profit here than potential fallout over doing it.
vi +
Negroponte would do well to put the Intel relationship behind him. This is turning into a "he said v. they said" argument.
Of course, Negroponte could use these tactics to generate more buzz for OLPC at Intel's expense (regardless if it is actually true).
I'm not saying which side is right. I am saying Negroponte needs to move on... Jesus, how many more of these OLPC v Intel stories do there need to be?
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
Mesh network is a software feature, could be provided by OS. E-book mode isn't a significant perk. Battery life is, but it should be able to enter some strong power-saving mode, shouldn't it?
The problem is that power saving is connected to the first two items. The XO mesh can forward packets while the motherboard is sleeping. Arguably, this can be done if the Classmate adopts the same Marvell radio and firmware. Similarly, e-book mode can also run without the motherboard awake, because the framebuffer is powered independently. I'm not sure if any of the G1G1 people tried it but I think the e-book battery life should be around 24hr.
Tsunami -- You can't bring a good wave down!
All that being said, the law is expensive to enforce, and in international bargains it may be different and difficult to find justice because of issues with jurisdiction, enforcement, substantive applicable law, and expense, meaning that breaching a contract amounts to what may be seen as, and is in effect, a form of theft.
While the Classmate is more powerful than OLPC, it also uses 10 times the power. Intel had to donate generators to their pilot projects before they could use the classmate. OLPC can run on hand cranks. I would say the Classmate is a better fit for industrialized countries with easy access to clean power, but not for the places OLPC is trying to reach. I believe that Classmate also doesn't have mesh, so that connectivity from the school would only reach as far as a WAP.
I agree. The support wiki is full of holes but it seems to be getting filled out. The great advantage I see in the buy-one-give-one program was to get it in the hands of people in the FOSS community that can find such weaknesses and fix them. We can support OLPC by developing applications and providing input to the project.
In the rush to get everything done on time I'm betting no one coordinated their UI ideas with everyone else, and now each activity is built from the ground up without a unifying lead.
That's why god invented "version x.2"
You can't take the sky from me...
Intel is no different than Microsoft, does anyone remember Zylog? Intel will do to chip makers what Microsoft will do to software makers.
I can't say AMD is more ethical, but it is at least a counterpoint to the Intel near monopoly of P.C. CPUs.
Something Pez forgot to mention is that you can emulate an XO relatively painlessly. There is even a premade image file that is available that you can drop into say QEMU and see what it's all about.
A few caveats: Use something with virtualization which unfortunately means x86. Trying to run this emulated on a high end PowerPC system was saddening. Yes it is only a 433MHz target, but 433MHz is pretty high when you think about it. The other thing to keep in mind is that the premade image wants to change the display to about 1024x768 instead of the XO native 1200x900. The Sugar manager seems to be fine with it but most activities (XO apps) will not display properly.