Slashdot Mirror
EU Regulators Open New Microsoft Investigations
The New York Times is reporting on two new investigations into Microsoft business practices opened by EU antitrust regulators. The new cases center on the company's positioning of Office and Internet Explorer, and were apparently partially prompted by Microsoft's earlier heel-dragging. "'It would have been preferable if these issues could have been resolved amicably with Microsoft,' said Jonathan Todd, a spokesman for the European competition commissioner, Neelie Kroes. 'But that has not proved to be the case. Therefore we have opened these formal investigations. That does not prove there is a violation. We will only be able to come to a conclusion after investigations.' The legal battle that ended last year involved the bundling of a media player with Windows and the availability of information required to make rival software operate smoothly with Microsoft products. In September, the Court of First Instance, Europe's highest after the European Court of Justice, endorsed the commission's 2004 decision to impose record fines on Microsoft."
already discussed here: http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/01/14/1719237
Dupy dupy dupe...
Bundling software has been the source of the EU's complaints against MS. The only way to fight bundling is to inform the consumer that they have choices. Until the average consumer understands that there are other programs outside the suite that Microsoft offers, there will be no real competition. Power users are not in the majority. The people that know what vlc, foobar, opera, etc. are are not in the majority. Firefox has proven that is possible to break out and actually compete with MS products, but they had to establish name recognition with consumers. The standard windows package with WMP and IE will cotntinue to strangle the market until people become vaguely familiar with the fact that their are options. It wouldn't hurt for people understand open source support and how it contrasts with closed source support, but that's probably an unattainable dream. However, Firefox has proven that when the stars align, there is a market for non-MS products.
Education is, as always, the great equalizer. It's the only thing that can make a market actually work.
I got a catholic block.
Man, the EU must really be out to get MS. They're opening what, like a new investigation every day?
This guy's the limit!
I wonder if it's Microsoft being a clear example of a company that got ahead and then rested on it's lead or is it cases like this that are bringing it down? Now that they're losing their lead it's hard for them to change because it's so ingrained in their corporate culture that they're ahead. Granted they do put out some new and interesting technology, they are getting smoked in a number of areas.
After all, it's just Europe, no? How negligible do you think the European market is for MS? What's Europe relative size? Say... it must be something like... Kentucky?
In any case, maybe MS should have delayed a bit more the release of its recent products globally, from what I've heard...
And then any US company that does business with any EU company would also delay new releases by 6-12 months. MS doesn't have any bargaining chips here.
Microsoft's problem is that they thought they were beyond reach. They behaved as bastards--thinking they could not be touched. So, Microsoft started this and the EU is pissed and is going to finish it.
I don't think you understand how huge the EU market is. If MS doesn't release any software into the EU you can expect a BIG shareprice drop.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power lost.
The EU Department of Redundancy Department is getting tired of reading the same stories 2 or even 3 times.
News at 11:11.
That says it all, doesn't it?
If you are not a Geek you expect functionality out of the box - and all the better if the bundled apps look native to the system.
If you are not a Geek you have no interest in the bare bones of the OS.
Orly?
Are you just joking, or a complete nutjob? I assume it's the former, just for the sake of sanity.
Inhabitants of the EU: 494.8, Millions, that is. Way more than Kentucky. Way more than the US, actually. Over half of the households in Europe are actually using computers. That's one hell of a market, if you ask me. MS can't, just can't afford to lose that market. And it's not only about the numbers - the European market is very innovative, many software companies are producing - well... software. Imagine if their environment wouldn't mostly use Windows as its main OS?
References:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_statistics
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90001/90781/90877/6314195.html
I'm an infovore...
Good god, you're a complete ignorant. If idiocy could be measured in kilos, there would be a black hole in your ass already.
As a corollary, what does Opera expect? That IE is no longer distributed with Windows and instead Opera is? How does that improve the situation at all? Distributing Opera with the OS would just be trading one for the other; the same issues would still exist.
If we assume that IE's market share is largest because it's distributed with the OS, then the conclusion is that Opera is just looking to enlarge its own piece of the pie. It's not anyone's (no, not even Microsoft's) fault that random users don't care about which browser they use.
They have a way out of this actually. They can just deliver their products through a warez site. Plausible deniability at work.
What?
Wow. I cannot believe 3 people can miss such absurd sarcasm. Wow.
And then the EU revokes all Microsoft's copyrights, designs and patents.
Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
Hmm. I do not think your sarcasm detector is working...
Not only them, but the mods, too. Tough luck, boy... ;-)
I was just looking for an opportunity to put them figures in here - you know, Karma and such
(That was funny. Laugh)
I'm an infovore...
I'm not sure they could do that without breaking the agreement on trade-related aspects of intellectual property rights(trips). I'm pretty sure that their will be a premium placed on EU citizens at some point for all these attacks on microsoft. What I'm waiting for is when microsoft tries to apply these legal theories to their competition, especially since the complaint isn't pricing or business agreements but bundling issues.
I didn't exactly know if this was sarcasm or not. The fact that I encountered a lot of people with these kinds of opinions made me think you were the real deal. When trying to be sarcastic, never be too authentic, it might seem real.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power lost.
Well, being a little more serious here, revoking Microsoft's copyrights would be the nuclear option in any such dispute. That's the step they take after they've issued arrest warrants for Microsoft executives but found that they're all in the US and extradition isn't going to happen. Pretty extreme. There are treaties and so forth, but a copyright is considered a form of property, so there's no reason the EU courts couldn't confiscate Microsoft's copyrights as part of a legal penalty and declare them public domain, just as they could confiscate Microsoft's offices in Europe and auction them off.
Microsoft would probably struggle to enforce any kind of premium on EU consumers anyway. What's to stop us importing their completely weightless product from outside the Union?
Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
....looked confused at me the other day :
Porn-dealer : You want WHAT?
Me : Neelie Kroes.
Porn-dealer : A pin-up of Neelie Kroes?
Me : Yes.
The link you posted was to a similar story in the "YRO" section.
It was posted at a date/time design to best suit europeans. This story was posted at a date/time better suited to american geeks after work in the "Politics" section.
It was so done to keep most people happy and docile while the hardcore slashdotters who sit there hitting "refresh" around the clock could grow incensed.
Then people in Oceania and Asia could sit back and have a good belly laugh at all the typically paranoid american comments on the YRO story about how this is all just a political move by an EU who is trying to destroy US business and then sit back and wait for the comedic pragmatism of europeans complaining that the story has been posted to the "Politics" and has a USA flag on the banner when it is clearly a legitimate legal issue.
Looks like it worked a treat!
I don't therefore I'm not.
That would be fabulous!
It's not anyone's fault that random users don't care about which browser they use.
That's the typical case: users will use what's most convenient. Microsoft can dictate that IE is most convenient. So there's your problem.
Let any company make deals with OEMs to be the default browser, or in the absence of any deal, let the OEMs choose without pressure from MS what's best for their business.
Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others. -Groucho Marx
Shouldn't you be a little less skeptical given that this was the basis of the original DOJ cases against Microsoft in the U.S.? ... before they mysteriously went away, that is. If you want to suspect that justice is being subverted, you might look instead to why those lawsuits did not follow to their logical conclusion after the initial ruling. It's not hard to follow the money in that case, now is it?
Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others. -Groucho Marx
The decision which allows Microsoft include Internet Explorer with Windows in the United States is clearly wrong and should be overturned.
I think you missed my point. I'm pointing to both (1) possible cases of mutual back-scratching, with the public being duped, and (2) the very real possibility that the powers that push these cases may not have the public's best interest in mind, but their own (although the public may benefit in some way, it may not gain the most just outcome). The DOJ may be a government organization, but their employees draw a paycheck based on their perceived performance, just like everyone else in this country.
I'm not condoning Microsoft's behavior, which is frequently detestable. I am saying that people shouldn't blindly put their faith in the DOJ or any other government body to appropriately address bad behavior, and should hold such organizations accountable when they don't push through to completion (as you so aptly noted regarding the DOJ's past antitrust work). It's not hard to follow this logic, now is it?
512 MB RAM, 20 GB disk, 200 GB transfer, five datacenters. $19.95/month.
Well except for the fact that AFAIK (and IANAL) that particular penalty is unavailable to them according to the TRIPS agreement. They certainly could fine MS and seize their offices (for what good that would do).
I think you are right in that this is the nuclear option for brussels. In my opinion this is some sort of EU money grab from microsoft since the adoption of the EU version of windows vs. the "regular" flavor is so dismal that the EU shouldn't have even accepted bundling as a valid argument - but here we are.
I don't think it would be that hard to do, as with windows-N they would just need to set up a new windows version that is only sold and only activated in the EU, and set up the current server to disallow activations inside the EU. Now you'd have to buy pre-activated PCs from outside the EU. At some point Microsoft has to get to the point where they say, tell us what you want or we're done here.
Or you could read about what the actual prosecutors had to say. Nawh, that would be 'un-Slashdot-like' wouldn't it?
How about the prosecutors needed Microsoft competitors to press the punishment phase of the trial, but none showed up to the party. That couldn't have anything to do with it, could it?
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
Why don't you include the fact that for Microsoft the European market is actually larger than the US? Microsoft takes home a lot more money from Europe than the US! I believe I heard something like 50%+
Hmm, I am not a gringo, for any sensible definition of gringo you can come up...