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What is Fair Use in the Digital Age?

Hugh Pickens writes "General counsel for NBC Rick Cotton and Tim Wu, professor at Columbia Law school, continue their debate about copyright issues and technology on Saul Hansell's blog at the New York Times discussing Fair Use of commercial music and video as the raw materials for new creations. Cotton says that content protection on the broadband internet is really not a debate about fair use The fact that users can 'take three or four movies and splice together their favorite action scenes and post them online does not mean that these uses are fair. There needs to be something more — something that truly injects some degree of original contribution from the maker other than just the assembly of unchanged copies of different copyrighted works.' Wu's position is that 'it is time to recognize a simpler principle for fair use: work that adds to the value of the original, as opposed to substituting for the original, is fair use. This simple concept would bring much clarity to the problems of secondary authorship on the web.' This is a continuation of the previous discussion on copy protection."

33 of 199 comments (clear)

  1. Fair use is very simple by timmarhy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If i've purchased a song, i should be able to use it anywhere,on anything and at anytime of my choosing for personal use, and i should be able to exchange my license to use this music with anyone else for a swap or money exactly like any other 2nd hand market.

    --
    If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
    1. Re:Fair use is very simple by timmarhy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      oh and sampling for parody or amature non profit use should be allowed as well.

      --
      If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
    2. Re:Fair use is very simple by MasterC · · Score: 5, Informative

      ...i should be able to exchange my license to use this music with anyone else for a swap or money exactly like any other 2nd hand market.
      Don't confuse fair-use with first-sale.

      First-sale is really quite natural. Copyrights are placed on a non-scarce resource to make them scarce. It would be absolutely ludicrous to purchase a shovel and not be able to sell it for whatever someone else is willing to pay for it. If copyright wants to push IP to equal footing (no pun intended) of shovels then you should be able to sell your iTune or CD for whatever anyone is willing to pay.

      The illusion that you can't/shouldn't/must not resell it is Big Media (TM) overencroaching on your rights. Fair use is but only one victim of DRM and first-sale is another.

      I could make a similar argument against software that can be licensed only once (Steam: I'm looking at you!). MS products are another example of this.
      --
      :wq
    3. Re:Fair use is very simple by Original+Replica · · Score: 2, Insightful

      My music video of Naruto set to Linkin Park is obviously original!

      The majority of the anime mashup music videos are crap and don't really "inject original contribution" but there are some that are quite well done. The problem with having a requirement of "something that truly injects some degree of original contribution" is that what qualifies is entirely subjective. What is a subtle but relevant addition to some kid making a video might just be worthless crap to a sixty year old judge. Artistic tastes are to vague to be a part of the law.

      --
      We are all just people.
    4. Re:Fair use is very simple by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 2, Informative

      That's great, but it has nothing to do with fair use. If you want that, get a specific statutory exception covering it.

      Also please n.b. that with the exception of downloaded music, ordinary consumers don't license music at all. The stupid software industry has just managed to screw up how people think of their rights in connection with works and the scope of protection the works enjoy.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    5. Re:Fair use is very simple by loki_tiwaz · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I've never understood why it isn't simple - if you make money off it, it's piracy, unless you negotiate a distribution license. Everything else is fair use. This breaks down a little bit in the context of sites like youtube or showing them on a television show. Thinking it through, I think that such a form of distribution is actually advertising and the copyright holders should leave them alone because it's advertising that reaches fans directly, the people who they are marketing to, right?

    6. Re:Fair use is very simple by AndyCR · · Score: 2, Informative

      Resale can't work without the stringent DRM that's being forced on consumers. If you put it that way, the same is true of copyright law itself. "Copyright can't work without the stringent DRM that's being forced on consumers." That simply isn't correct. If you sell a song, you delete it. If you fail to delete it, law takes over, not some omnipresent nanny software.
      --
      If there's anyone I hate more than stupid people, it's intellectuals.
  2. I'm not confused but the headline is! by garcia · · Score: 5, Interesting

    There is no difference in Fair Use rights in the "Digital Age". It's the same as it's always been. It's only because of the misinformation campaigns by the RIAA and MPAA that we have a society that's confused about the rights they have had for quite some time.

    Unfortunately, the sheep are easily swayed over time (the frog/boiling water deal I suppose). I'm not fooled and hopefully they won't be able to fool intelligent judges either. They might buy over Congress but someone needs to put their foot down and stick up for us.

    I'm tired of stories like this :(

    1. Re:I'm not confused but the headline is! by garcia · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In addition, now that I've read the article again just because so many parts of it made sense and so many others just pissed me off more:

      Books begat films, character merchandising, giant fan guides, remix videos, fan art and other
      forms of secondary authorship that simply didn't exist 100 years ago.


      100 years ago we didn't have Disney fucking with Copyright then (the Mickey Mouse and Sonny Bono Protection Acts only came about in 1976!) So for us to even bring that shit up in this modern discussion is nothing short of ridiculous.

      Let's face the facts here... Copyright has been extended to an unreasonable point so that nothing will ever enter the Public Domain so if anything is different in the "Digital Age" it's the fact that we're more fucked than ever before.

      Boo.

    2. Re:I'm not confused but the headline is! by Shados · · Score: 2, Informative

      There's misinformation on both sides. The amount of people who think that your right to a backup also includes making "backups" JUST IN CASE your nearest Blockbuster got broken into and had everything stolen, so you can be the hero and give em back copies of what they once had (/sarcasm) is pretty staggering, too.

    3. Re:I'm not confused but the headline is! by curunir · · Score: 5, Insightful
      One thing I found interesting about the article is that the entertainment lawyer makes one good point while trying to make a point that is almost the opposite.

      From the article:

      But, as a technical legal matter, fair use is not a "right," a misconception and misstatement frequently made these days.
      While his point is that fair use is more of a privilege than a right, I think there's a much different interpretation of what he's saying that is important to consider.

      He's absolutely correct that fair use isn't a right, it's an exception. But it's an exception to the rights of the copyright holder. And this distinction is important because it underscores how entertainment companies misrepresent copyright. Rather than copyright defining the few excepted uses allowed to people/entities who don't hold the copyright, it actually defines the few rights granted exclusively to the copyright holder.

      And this is an important observation about the intent of copyright. Namely, that anything not explicitly granted to the copyright holder is permissible rather than forbidden. The big content producers would like copyright to be a limited set of things that we (those not producing the content) are allowed to do with their content, which they believe they own. But when defending our rights, it's important to remember that copyright is actually a limited set of things that we're not allowed to do and that content cannot be owned, only protected. And this is the principle that should be applied whenever something falls outside of what is explicitly stated in the Copyright Act...that everything not covered is allowed rather than forbidden.
      --
      "Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos!"
    4. Re:I'm not confused but the headline is! by cens0r · · Score: 2, Informative

      In the past (when VHS first came out) a video tape was released and it was very expensive. So expensive that only video stores would purchase it. At a later date, a home version may have been released at a regular price. Of course, as the years went on more people wanted to buy tapes and the studios realized they could make more money by just releasing it to everyone. By the time DVD was out the two release dates was almost entirely phased out.

      --
      Jack Valenti and Orrin Hatch will be first up against the wall when the revolution comes.
    5. Re:I'm not confused but the headline is! by tungstencoil · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Offtopic, but here it goes...

      Back in the day, I worked for a "big video store" (putting myself through school) - this was strictly VHS days. For most movies, think hard... ever notice they hit the rental shelves before you could buy it at Target or Wal-Mart? That's because of the "exorbitant amount for their films" (and $100 is about right). This is how the studios ensured they made a good chunk of cash off of VHS even though there was a lot of rental (and never mind that eventually the big rental houses entered into revenue sharing agreements). Once the fever died down, the price would drop to a "sell-through" price.

      Exceptions were made, usually around family films and such. However, it did make it interesting when someone wrecked a brand-new tape, and you had to explain why you needed to charge them $104 to replace...

    6. Re:I'm not confused but the headline is! by porpnorber · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Even more important to note is that there are no rights, only privileges. Guantanamo Bay proves this: in the view of the US Government, even the protections of the Constitution are there only insofar as the President feels like extending them. More broadly, if 'self defense' is a defense, or capital punishment is permitted, then there is clearly no inalienable right to life, even in legal fiction. (Outside of legal fiction, of course, you've always been able to smash someone over the head with a rock.)

      My point is not that the US sucks; it's that all of these things—even the privilege of breathing—are negotiable, and that the official mechanism for negotiating them is to vote; in this case for someone who actually gives a damn about people. (Traditionally, plan B is violent revolution, but that's no good—that's part of the pattern that needs to be fixed.)

      The interesting thing about copyright as applied to people is that artists like to be recognised for their work, and they like to have an income. Interestingly, artists who rework the work of other artists generally have no trouble with this (though they have the same pair of concerns themselves, of course). It is corporations who want to be seen as the owners and originators of works that were in fact executed by people who they paid, or bought from, or stole from (pop quiz, from the business of most readers here: how many Linux kernel contributors can you name? How about Vista?).

      I think the reason for this is that corporations, judging their success by market share, imagine themselves to be living in a zero-sum world, where they con only 'own' something insofar as other people do not. Individuals, on the other hand, who clearly have no hope of getting it all (whatever 'it' may be) are generally happy if their own reputation, or income, or standard of living, increases, even if other people's does too.

      Of course, the parent's point that the law says what the law says and that there is a disinformation campaign underway to persuade you that all rights are reserved to some corporation by default, and indeed that peer-to-peer protocols are felonious by nature, oh, let me see, and that security research is immoral, and ... —well, the point is entirely well taken. And we mustn't be taken in. But it's only a small corner of the overall picture. Someone writes the rules, and presently, they are out of control.

  3. Fair use by adona1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    My personal view on fair use is much the same as my view on downloading - fine if you do it for yourself or with no intention of profiting from it, but bad if you attempt to sell it, whether through burnt DVDs in the market or using clips from films/pictures/music to bring people to your revenue generating website, and so on.

    It's a yin and yang - downloading or fiddling around with videos or music may cost some sales, but it can also generate new fans, who will purchase when they otherwise wouldn't. So what if splicing 3 or 4 clips together doesn't have much artistic merit? That's a purely subjective call, and in this age, it seems that computer software is the popular artistic tool of choice.

    --
    Between the falling angel and the rising ape
    1. Re:Fair use by 15Bit · · Score: 2, Informative
      > My personal view on fair use is much the same as my view on downloading - fine if you do it for

      > yourself or with no intention of profiting from it, but bad if you attempt to sell it,
      > whether through burnt DVDs in the market or using clips from films/pictures/music to bring
      > people to your revenue generating website, and so on.

      And this pretty much used to be the police attitude to copying CD's - arrest the guys selling out the back of a van but leave joe public alone. This was a largely agreeable status quo as only a limited number of guys could copy stuff, it cost money to do so, and a lot of folk would rather pay the full rate and get a decent quality inlay etc.

      But in the broadband age the content producers are worried that everyone is able to download and it costs nothing. The music is the same whether you download an illegal version or a legal one, so there is therefore no compelling reason to pay. Its not that you are/aren't profiting, its that its so easy and free that everyone can do it. It therefore undermines their business model with the logical conclusion that with everyone downloading, no-one is paying. Now you could argue that this represents a flaw in their business model, but its still illegal.

    2. Re:Fair use by Max+Night · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No. "Profit" in the legal sense is about material gain. Avoiding costs is not a material gain. If it was, General Motors could claim billions in "profits" by avoiding regulatory fines by not selling cars that violate federal safety regulations. e.g. "We had profits of $27 billion this year by not building and selling 100,000 cardboard Chevy Suburbans!" Sounds ridiculous, right? Well. I'd argue that you materially gain - by gaining material. It's not about avoiding costs, it's about actually obtaining something without paying for it. Following your logic, I could steal someone's car and claim that I was "avoiding the cost" of buying one.
  4. Not just the RIAA by EmbeddedJanitor · · Score: 3, Insightful
    The (ab)user side are also muddying the water. Consider the mashup DJs that release their own "creative works" on CD (which they then expect to have covered by copyright) or the hobbiest mashup artist that releases stuff on youtube etc. Is this fair use of the original material?

    I agree though that the digital age really makes no difference. The real change has been a shift is society's values. Me, me, me!

    --
    Engineering is the art of compromise.
  5. "work that adds to the value of the original" by Facetious · · Score: 3, Interesting

    And how would we measure that? Adding content != adding value. Conversely, a new blend of old content can change the contents "feel," message, and/or meaning. I would love to see the "value matrix of subjective content."

    --
    Let us not become the evil that we deplore.
  6. Someone didn't read the article... by langelgjm · · Score: 2, Interesting

    There is no difference in Fair Use rights in the "Digital Age". It's the same as it's always been. It's only because of the misinformation campaigns by the RIAA and MPAA that we have a society that's confused about the rights they have had for quite some time.

    Someone didn't read the article :-) To quote Rick Cotton (the bad guy):

    Fair use in the digital age is the same as fair use in the non-digital age.

    First of all, as Mr. Cotton duly notes, and as we often hear here on /., there is no such thing as a fair use "right." It's only a defense against infringement. To respond to your point, I'd argue that since the technology has changed so drastically, not only for enabling infringement, but also for enforcing copyright, the laws ought to be looked at again. What wasn't even on the map when fair use was being hashed out in various cases is now commonplace. It's time to reevaluate. Fair use should change as a result.

    --
    "Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
    1. Re:Someone didn't read the article... by j0nb0y · · Score: 2, Informative

      By that logic, self defense is not a Right because it is only a defense against a battery charge.

      Self defense is a Right, and so is fair use. I'm not sure where this fallacy originated, but it is ridiculous. Actually, I know where it originated. It originated with the RIAA.

      So why are /.ers parroting RIAA talking points?

      --
      If you had super powers, would you use them for good, or for awesome?
    2. Re:Someone didn't read the article... by langelgjm · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sorry to reply again, but this might be of interest:

      5. Is Fair Use a Right or Merely a Defense? Lawyers disagree about the conceptual nature of fair use. Some lawyers claim that fair use is merely a defense to a claim of copyright infringement. Although fair use is often raised as a defense, many lawyers argue that fair use can also be viewed as having a broader scope than this. If fair use is viewed as a limitation on the exclusive rights of copyright holders, fair use can be seen as a scope of positive freedom available to users of copyrighted material. On this view, fair use is the space which the U.S. copyright system recognizes between the rights granted to copyright holders and the rights reserved to the public, where uses of works may or may not be subject to copyright protection. Copyright law gives the decision about whether copyright law applies to a particular use in this space to a Federal Court judge, to decide after weighing up all relevant factors and the underlying policies of copyright law.
      --
      "Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
    3. Re:Someone didn't read the article... by Atlantis-Rising · · Score: 2, Informative

      Self-defense is not a right. It's an affirmative defense. Sibling poster is slightly confused in use, but not in content.

      If you plead self-defense, you are pleading that you DID murder the person, but you shouldn't be punished for it because there were exonerating circumstances (namely that person was a threat to your own safety).

      Fair use is similar. You argue that you DID copy the material without the owner's permission, but that there are exonerating circumstances that make it acceptable.

      --
      "It is possible to commit no errors and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." -Peak Performance
    4. Re:Someone didn't read the article... by Atlantis-Rising · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Except that self-defense is not a right, and neither is fair use. Both concepts have little basis in law.

      Now, as to the legal concept of being allowed to plead in the alternative, you'll never see me doing that. It's a disgusting practice that I have never yet seen an honorable purpose for.

      Then again, I have a problem with plea bargaining in general, too, and only 2% of cases reach trial. So obviously my views are not well supprted in the judicial community.

      Ironically, I was reading the origins of the adversary criminal trial a few days ago, and back in the day the English legal system would not allow lawyers for the defense- they were seen to do nothing more than muddy up the truth by introducing all sorts of extraneous concepts. Old-fashioned indeed, but I feel similarly about most methods of pleadings these days.

      In any case, to return to the issue at hand, It is my opinion that intellectual property is a necessary creation of the state for the simple reason that capitalism as a pure system is doomed to fail. It requires a system of economic knowledge which is simply impossible. Similarly, intellectual property is basically 'regulation' of the intellectual marketplace.

      Within that framework, then, you have no more right to fair use than you have to unregulated trade. It may be possible under certain circumstances when the legislative context is correct, but it's certainly not guaranteed. It is not a right at all.

      Self-defense is arguably similar. The state has a monopoly on the use of force; it may be possible under certain circumstances when the legislative context is correct for an individual to wield force against another, but it's certainly not guaranteed.

      --
      "It is possible to commit no errors and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." -Peak Performance
    5. Re:Someone didn't read the article... by djp928 · · Score: 2

      You better not move to New Hampshire, Kentucky, Tennessee, or North Carolina then. The Right of revolution is protected in the Constitution of those states.

      Kentucky's constitution states: "All power is inherent in the people, and all free governments are founded on their authority and instituted for their peace, safety, happiness and the protection of property. For the advancement of these ends, they have at all times an inalienable and indefeasible right to alter, reform or abolish their government in such manner as they may deem proper."

      The other three go a bit farther, and include the statement "The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.".

      See, once upon a time in the USA, people understood what the proper role of government is and where the authority of the government comes from. It comes from the people, in the form of delegated rights. You do not have the right to use force against me arbitrarily, so you cannot delegate this "right" to someone else (i.e. the government) to do it for you.

      Furthermore, the US Declaration of Independence clearly states "...That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

      Maybe the western world supports you nearly universally, but the founding documents of the United States and several of its states clearly do not. The government is "of the people, by the people, for the people", or at least should be. And if it isn't, it is the "Right of the People to alter or to abolish it."

  7. AMV = Perfect examples of fair use by Spy+der+Mann · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Anime Music Videos are perfect examples of fair use. You can take a speech from a comedy show, mix it with some scenes, and have a hilarious mix entitled "the flying car". A much more artistic example is "I must be dreaming", which not only adds clips, but some special effects as well. Or if you like violence, how about a little Mortal Kombat ?

    And last, but not least, AMV Hell 3: The Motion Picture and AMV Hell 4: The last one. Some of the clips there got me laughing for hours.

    What would be of Entertainment and creativity online if all the music and anime producers sued the AMV makers for copyright infringement? :(

  8. What about things INTENDED to be part of something by WaltBusterkeys · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What about music that's written with the intent that it be used as a backdrop to something else, like a film score? The intended use of that music is to be incorporated into something else that adds a layer of creativity. If you say "any use that adds something to the work is fair use" then film scores effectively lose ALL protection. The original film, for which they are written, wouldn't have to pay royalties because it would be adding something and making "fair use" of it.

    Same for stock photography and stock video providers -- their GOAL is to provide raw material as input into a larger work. They spend a lot of time and money shooting and editing stock. If you claim any use of their work is fair use (it's always incorporated into a larger whole, and often transformed along the way) then stock photographers and videographers can't get paid (all use is fair use--why pay for it) and might just stop producing stock material. It's a huge benefit to illustrators and designers to have stock photography and video available. (As an aside, some stock photographers create really good work)

    How does he address the fact that some people design work with the hopes of being paid by producers who will assemble it into a larger whole, and that producers are glad to have designer's work available?

  9. Re:debate bias? Bias? Here's a form of bias? by davidsyes · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "What is Fair Use in the Digital Age?"

    The same that applied in pre-digital, digital ages:

    Do not fold, spindle, or mutilate. There. Now, transferring that age to this age, add: "Don't digitize or compress; decompression not guaranteed" the membership.

    --
    Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
  10. Re:Here's Where Cotton is Right, Wu Wrong by reallocate · · Score: 2, Interesting

    How do the courts determine when an altered copy, of anything, represents "added value"?

    If the courts can do that, how, then, can they decide how to apportion the revenue from the altered copy?

    My fundamental problem with the notion of added value is that it is an "in the eye of the beholder", "he says, she says", kind of opinion. In practical terms, no one is likely to tell a court that his altered copy removes value.

    --
    -- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
  11. Clarify? by localman · · Score: 2, Insightful

    work that adds to the value of the original, as opposed to substituting for the original

    And who gets to determine what "adds value"? Here's a random example I just came across today that rides the line: the full Steve Jobs Keynote vs. this 60 second recap:

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yz1-cPx0cIk

    That can both substitute for the original, and yet I think adds value. Not just by being short and informative, but by satirizing and commenting on the effects of 89 minutes of fluff marketing. Is it fair use?

    Cheers.

  12. Re:What about things INTENDED to be part of someth by WaltBusterkeys · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Fair use is not all personal use. Some people argue that taking a sample of a song and using it in another song is fair use. Other people argue that putting videos on Youtube (which is a commercial, profit-making venture) can be fair use. Personal use is ONE part of fair use, but it's not ALL fair use.

  13. Re:debate bias? by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You're not meant to keep them "in check". The point of a debate is to actually allow the other person to speak, and to engage in discussions about the merits (or otherwise) of those points. Although, based on what I've seen of the /. moderation system, maybe I'm wasting my breath...

    --
    You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
  14. My deal with the RIAA/MPAA by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Here's the deal. You get to use publicly owned material like the English Language, classical music, out-of-copyright books and traditional stories (hello Disney), pictures of public places (including MY HOUSE damn it), regional accents etc. in return for some fair use rights and a limited (say 15 year max) copyright term. Sound fair?

    Nothing that big media produces is entirely original. Apart from the fact that they use a public domain language (English) with slang and common metaphors not written by them, they of course are inspired by earlier work. Bands like Oasis wouldn't exist without The Beatles, yet they pay them no fees. The Matrix is just an updated version of Descart's "I think therefore I am" idea.

    Either they give something back or they start paying.

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC