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Netflix and iTunes Rentals Aiming At Different Crowds

Engadget notes an article in the New York Times discussing the substantially different markets that Netflix and Apple's movie rentals are aiming for. The site views the loosening of Netflix streaming restrictions as a reaction motivated entirely by the iTunes movie rental announcement, but beyond that the two services seem to have little connection. From Engadget's observations: "After speaking with Netflix's Reed Hastings, it was found that the vast majority of its streamable content was 'older,' and considering that users of this service can never look forward to brand new releases being available, the cost (i.e. free to most mail-in subscribers) makes sense. As for Apple, it's able to focus on crowds who are looking for a more robust, generally fresher selection, but of course, you'll pay the premium each time you indulge. Furthermore, Netflix has yet to make transferring video to any display / device other than your monitor easy, and while an LG set top box is indeed on the horizon, the differences in content selection are still likely to lure separate eyes."

16 of 166 comments (clear)

  1. Exactly what is new about AppleTV? by elrous0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The problem with AppleTV and this revolutionary new service is that, for some time, I've already had a device that lets me rent new movies via the internet (even *gasp* HD movies) and watch them on my TV. It's called an "Xbox 360." It even comes with the bonus features of letting me play videogames and chat with my friends.

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    1. Re:Exactly what is new about AppleTV? by p0tat03 · · Score: 4, Informative

      I've got a 360, and it really doesn't do it for me, the movie and messaging components that is. Movie selection is piss poor, the device is hellishly loud, and messaging is buggy and crashy. Just signing into Messenger causes my device to hang for up to a minute! Ludicrous. The movie and messaging components of Xbox 360 are merely functional, they are not easy to use.

    2. Re:Exactly what is new about AppleTV? by Rude+Turnip · · Score: 5, Informative

      Right now I'm using an Xbox 360 for exactly the same purpose. However, it only "works good enough" for me because I have the patience and know-how to get the most out of my Xbox. Aside from games and a built-in (but NOISY) DVD player, Apple TV has the following things going for it over Xbox 360:

      -Your purchases get backed up to iTunes on your PC. It annoys me to no end that every other week or so I have to delete shows I've paid for because you can't back up programming to your computer.

      -Your purchases are denominated in actual currency, not "Microsoft Points." Enough said on that point.

      -Built-in video podcast browsing...once the software update hits Apple TV, of course. There is no straightforward way to watch these on Xbox 360. There is a lot of good, free, legal programming out there (Web Drifter, Diggnation, Stranger Things, NASA). With the 360, you need either the Zune software, Miro or iTunes to aggregate the podcasts. In the 2 latter cases, you then need a UPNP/DLNA server to serve the videos out to the 360.

      -Better video support. The 360 plays H.264 videos (my DVD rips) just fine...however, Windows Media Player does not catalogue them into my library. I should not have to hack my registry to force it to do so. Importantly, I should not have to rely upon 3rd party software (TVersity) to serve out such videos. The other way to do it is to download Microsoft's Zune software, which natively catalogues H.264...one hell of a way to run a company, Microsoft, no consistency across the board and every step is taken to lock me in, which results in crippled hardware.

    3. Re:Exactly what is new about AppleTV? by littleshadow · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Apples and Oranges... I have both.

      I purchased the 360 the night it came out. In June, it was moved to the "game room" when I purchased an Elite and an HD-DVD drive. I then received an AppleTV as a gift in July (yes, life is hard). So far, I've downloaded (or rather attempted to download) two movies on the 360. The experience was frustrating to put it mildly. I honostly find downloading via P2P, converting and burning a less stressful way to go. I have purchased a few HD-DVDs but the volume of the fans on the 360 is absurd when your trying to watch a movie.

      The AppleTV, on the other hand, easily competes with DirectTV for my eyeballs. As the cliche goes, "it just works". That said, I can definitely sympathize with people turned off by the iTunes requirement. But that's the absolute, if not understated, beauty of this update. Sure, the ability to rent movies will be nice but the real, and apparently much overlooked, change is that the AppleTV will now connect directly to the internet to obtain content. No more iTunes.

      I still think the 360 is #1 for gaming but it's just not in the same game as the AppleTV for movies.

    4. Re:Exactly what is new about AppleTV? by DavidinAla · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Just because iTunes doesn't organize music the way you want it to doesn't make it a "horrible music organizer." For me and for many people, it's an excellent music organizer and playback system. In fact, it's my only music system at home, because it was so superior to standalone stereos. What you really seem to mean is that it doesn't do what you want, so it doesn't meet your needs. That's reasonable. But don't pretend that a product is lousy just because it's not designed the way you would have designed it.

  2. Netflix is different than Apple... by CF4L · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Netflix did an excellent job of separating themselves from Apple. They didn't punish their current subscribers by charging them extra for this service (as Apple did for iPod touch owners with the new apps).

    1. Re:Netflix is different than Apple... by adamstew · · Score: 3, Insightful

      there is FREE software going out to all current gen iPods (including the touch) to enable the rental ability with them.

      What was not free was the additional apps (maps, stocks, weather, mail, etc.) Those are going to be included in future shipments for free, but current shipments they have to charge something because of accounting reasons...same reason they had to charge for the 802.11n in the macs that had the hardware but not the software to use the 802.11n standard.

      iPhone and Apple TV get the software updates for free because they accounted the revenue for those devices differently than they do regular iPods and macs, so they are able to add additional features for free.

      netflix didn't have to do this because netflix has no hardware (yet). They are just adding additional services to their subscription model in order to be more competitive.

      Either way, it's not apple trying to screw customers out of money for updates...if they were, they would rather you bought a new iPod touch to get the additional features, rather than a moderately priced upgrade.

  3. TV shows by gEvil+(beta) · · Score: 3, Insightful

    As I've said before, the Netflix service isn't too great for new movies (as this article points out), but it is wonderful for older TV shows (and some newer ones). Now that they've lifted the time limits, I'll be sitting down and watching tons of old shows. Full seasons of Alfred Hitchcock Presents, Amazing Stories (well, the first season at least), and tons and tons of BBC stuff (Doctor Who and Red Dwarf, anyone?). I saw that they recently added Dexter Season 1. Hopefully they'll be putting up Season 2 of that soon, too. Perfect timing, too, since it's the middle of Winter and there's nothing new on TV due to the writers strike.

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    1. Re:TV shows by WinPimp2K · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "there's nothing new on TV due to the writers strike"

      Hmm.. and who is getting a residual payment from your downloads of those older shows?

      I'm uncertain about what might be better, but if the writers are going to stick with some form of deferred compensation/revenue sharing model, you would think that they might have caught on to the idea of a more comprehensive contract in the past 30 years. One with a clause that just syas, when the studio (or whoever) gets money, the writers will get their piece of the action - rather than the currently lame half-baked mashup of clauses and conditions and explicitly defined distribution models.

      --

      You either believe in rational thought or you don't
  4. More than just old movies by peipas · · Score: 4, Informative

    Some of the most attractive offerings on Netflix's streaming service are television shows. There are lots of seasons and even complete series available through the service. I was able to watch the entire run of the British show "Coupling," the UK's raunchier version of Friends. They also have every Law and Order known to man, short-run series like "Dead Like Me," and even modern shows like Heroes and 3rd Rock.

  5. Public Libraries by PIPBoy3000 · · Score: 4, Informative

    I always wonder why these sort of discussions leave out public libraries. Our local library has an amazing DVD selection (much of it purchased from a failed video store). Sure, the new stuff is often hard to get (Hot Fuzz had 66 holds on it, last I checked), but there's tons of classics, Anime, and other things I missed in the theater.

    It's become a weekly tradition for me to head out to the library after Saturday breakfast and return with my booty of media. Like Santa, I open my sack and hand out books and movies to my kids and occasionally my wife (depending on whether or not she's on the naughty list).

    1. Re:Public Libraries by krakelohm · · Score: 4, Funny

      Having the wife on the naughty list is not a bad thing...

      --
      You are all a bunch of idots.
    2. Re:Public Libraries by PhoenixFlare · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I always wonder why these sort of discussions leave out public libraries. Our local library has an amazing DVD selection (much of it purchased from a failed video store)

      Because most people's libraries weren't lucky enough to have a failed video store to acquire a collection from - Netflix's selection is so much wider than any public library (or video store, for that matter) i've ever been in or heard of, there's almost no point making a comparison.

  6. I'm definitely not Apple's target market, but... by blueZ3 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think that $3 for a movie "rental" is way too expensive, which is the very reason I dropped Blockbuster for Netflix in the first place. I don't care if it is a new release, recent T.V. episode, or whatever--three dollars is half the cost of a matinée on the big screen.

    We don't have cable or satellite T.V. and I can't see spending money on the antenna we'd need for broadcast digital--five hundred channels of nothing is still nothing. So we have Netflix. While I don't watch much, my wife watches about one episode of a T.V. series each day. Perhaps every other week we get a movie, and occasionally we'll watch episodes some old series together. So we run through maybe 10-15 DVDs worth of content each month. That type of viewing pattern would be significantly more than the $18 a month we currently pay Netflix, say around $45 if you had to get all the TV episodes as individual "rentals"

    It will be interesting to see if Apple can do to video viewing what it did to music (make the music player ubiquitous, or nearly so). The main issues I see are cost (per video) and cost (for a device to play the content).

    --
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  7. Re:Netflix Is A RipOff by Belial6 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    No, they have not. The law suit that they lost was had nothing to do with 'throttling', as keeps getting repeated. What they were sued for was for immediately sending high usage subscribers a movie lower on their list instead of the top one if they had to choose between sending a high usage subscriber the last copy, or a low usage subscriber. They have since updated their TOS to reflect this.

    You should rally have been looking at your post office as the culprit. Netflix has way to many people to be individually targeting people for delayed shipments. The only way that they could realistically get any benefit from it would be if they had a system to automatically flag accounts. There are way to many people like me that have spent years (over 5 for me) returning just about every single movie the day after they receive it for Netflix to have an automated system to throttle.

  8. NetFlix download isn't a serious business by ContractualObligatio · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The big difference between the two is that Apple is making a genuine try at starting a business: they've revamped the Apple TV after the first attempt didn't get a great reaction, they've cut deals with all the movie studios, they let people do the obvious thing with movies, namely watch them on the TV.

    NetFlix, on the other hand, may be smart enough to realise that internet access to movies is inevitable, but only came up with some shitty "on your computer only" service, with bandwidth restrictions. It's a little experiment without serious backing. My bet is that whoever within NetFlix has responsibility for the online service has little power within the company, and is probably seen as competition to the main DVDs-by-post business. Apple's announcement probably gave that person a rare bit of clout to argue to the rest of the company that unless the NetFlix streaming service improves, it will simply become a laughing stock.

    All that said - if they deliver on easy access via the TV, their model of "classic" and hard-to-find material plus their que idea is a great one. Hope the online person now gets the respect and funding they deserve. They've got to prepare for the future where the postal service just ain't necessary for their business model.