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A Proposal For Unionizing Bloggers

mikesd81 writes "Coloumbia Journal Review writes about the possibility of unionizing bloggers. Chris Mooney writes 'Yes, dear reader: the Bloggers Guild of America may be on its way. The dispute between screen and television writers and media conglomerates has its roots, after all, in the Web.' He says, then, they get zero compensation for their products being distributed over the Internet. 'Bloggers often earn that same salary. There are exceptions, of course, those fortunate few who have become quasi-celebrities in their own right and found themselves, and their sites, snatched up by major media companies,' he goes on to say. He also adds that a bloggers guild could protect a blogger's intellectual property and help ensure they're compensated for it."

17 of 259 comments (clear)

  1. Oh god yes, the best idea ever by LiquidCoooled · · Score: 5, Funny

    Its the best idea ever.
    That way we can abuse their rights and they can go on strike!!!

    --
    liqbase :: faster than paper
  2. Not too surprising by blueg3 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It shouldn't come as a shock that people who simply post their opinions publicly so that someone will listen to them would only be paid what those opinions are worth.

    1. Re:Not too surprising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      I'm sure that the blogger in question was just being sarcastic... It would have been much more amusing if he also suggested that the people who leave comments should unionise into the Trolls Guild or something, though.

  3. Supply & Demand 101 by MeanMF · · Score: 5, Funny

    they get zero compensation for their products being distributed over the Internet

    The vast majority of them earn every penny of that.

  4. A Union Doesn't Make Any Sense... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...when it's members aren't actually employed. I don't mean bloggers don't have jobs, just that their job isn't generally blogging. A union exists to give workers collective leverage against their employers, who stand to lose economically if a strike is called.

    Who loses money if the bloggers go on strike? For that matter, if they weren't blogging, how would we even know they were on strike? By the lack of updates? I doubt the print media would care enough to inform us.

    A guild in the sense of a trade organization might make sense, but a union?

    You might just as sensibly organize the elephants and have them strike if ivory poaching continues.

  5. forget the bloggers by MacarooMac · · Score: 4, Funny

    It's the hackers thatt need a union, what with all the negative publicity they get when they do naughty stuff.

    The Hackers Guild could then provide *protection* to the Bloggers Guild - for a small fee, of course... ;)

    --
    "He Who Dares Wins" ...or gets twenty-to-life for totaling their Bimmer on a poodle parade
  6. unionizing by mistersooreams · · Score: 5, Funny

    Coloumbia Journal Review writes about the possibility of unionizing bloggers.
    I didn't realise there was a problem with ionized bloggers, but I'm glad that it's being tackled early.
  7. Re:Three words by abigor · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Nope. The ability of certain people to invent new ways of making themselves seem important is astounding.

  8. no value so no leverage by petes_PoV · · Score: 5, Insightful
    A guild or union or whatever you want to call it only has power because they can do (or stop doing) something that society values - and whose wishes to retain that thing are more than the union members' pain at witholding it.

    Where, exactly would a group of bloggers create enough value that "we" would be prepared to pay extra to have them continue?

    They have no leverage as most of them are hobbyists and do it more for their own benefit and self-image than for anyone else. If they stopped, they would not be missed and there would not be a hole in our lives that needed filling (possibly the reverse!!!)

    --
    politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
  9. there's one problem with your cunning plan.... by timmarhy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ... no one gives a fuck if you go on strike. in fact i would propose that we help them form said union so that we can force them into a permanent strike so that all blogs dry up and my goggle searches can be useful again.

    --
    If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
  10. Re:Unions - are they needed? by Ajehals · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The reasons many of these laws exist is because of the work done by unions in the past. Moreover the fundamental problem that an employer usually has more power and resources than an employee still stands, this means that if you are subject to unfair or illegal treatment it is still a case of you (with limited resources) against your employer (with more resources), a fight that you may find hard to start let alone win. Unions are supposed to address this imbalance by providing you with the resources and support you need to take an errant employer on.

    It should also be noted that there are still issues that unions are fighting on, obviously what these issues are depends on where you look, but they exist. A simple situation that unions can and do address is pay, employers often do not want to pay employee's (especially at the lowest level) what they are worth, sure they will pay the minimum legal wage, they may even pay more than the minimum possible wage, however for an employee to take unilateral action (i.e. protest or demand extra pay on threat of leaving) would be pointless, they would be dismissed and the situation would remain the same, the dismissal serving as a disincentive for any other employee considering the same path. Obviously a union makes it possible for the entire workforce (or the group affected) to take action.

    Now that example in the context of the US is usually seen as negative, it is usually assumed that this pressure by unions for higher pay (and often job protection) is unfair on the employer, and in some cases it is, especially when an employer *is* paying a fair wage, or where an employer *Cannot* pay more. In these cases the union should always be looking to protect its members interest, that is to say to safeguard the jobs of its members and achieving the best possible collective agreements, not to harm its members by forcing an employer to become uncompetitive in the marketplace (leading to potential job cuts or insolvency).

    So in short, unions are valuable and useful, if, the members of a union have sufficient sway within it (so as to be able to present their views, usually by way of a ballot), and also if the union organisation is rational and reasonable when dealing with employers. Most importantly there should always be good communication between unions and employers, strikes should be avoided and used only as a last resort against uncooperative and abusive employers.

    Modern unions also generally provide additional protections and services to members, things like legal advice (not just related to employment) and insurance, due to the fact that they (generally) represent a large pool of employed individuals, they are also in a position to use their size to arrange preferential prices for goods and services (in some cases housing) for their members. Finally they are also a potential ally for an employer who has issues with a particular employee, they are after all a third party and therefore able to give (one would hope) rational and informed (and partially independent) advice and guidance with regard to disciplinary action.

    Anyway, unions are a good thing, as long as they are reasonable, every one I have dealt with has been professional and showed common sense in their dealings, although I must say some of the stories I hear coming from the US are that the unions that exist there are not quite set up in the same manner, in some cases apparently acting more a labour cartel than an organisation geared to protect vulnerable workers from exploitation (I hope that that is not a correct picture but simply that horror stories are more fun to tell than stories about successes).

  11. Re:What about scientists? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Informative

    As for protecting their IP, their articles generally cease being their own IP once a journal gets ahold of it, upon which it controls distribution and very often ransoms access to the public Almost every journal or conference I have even looked at submitting papers to has allowed me to post a copy of the PDF on my own site. There have been two exceptions. One allows you to post the content of the paper, but you have to use your own formatting (they take the LaTeX and apply their own styles and claim copyright on the final version, but not the version it is derived from). The other makes papers available for free download (no registration or anything) in PDF form and allows you to link to their version.

    I put PDFs and BibTeX for all of my peer-reviewed papers online. You can read and cite them without going near a for-profit journal, even if that is where they were originally published. If other scientists don't do this, you should complain to them for not exercising their freedoms in a way that benefits you (or just bounce your connection via an HTTP proxy hosted in a university IP range, which gets you access to most things).

    Also, bear in mind that the writings of a researcher are typically not regarded as having intrinsic value, they represent something which has value (the research) and are intended as advertising rather than a product. In contrast, the writings of a blogger are their product.

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  12. No, No, Please No! by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 4, Insightful
    You mean I have to take all of the problems that come with being a blogger and have a union too! Ugh! The pain and legal load of protecting myself from my own union would be much greater than any "intellectual property issues" that they percieve.

    Bruce

  13. Re:Unionizing by RDW · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Well, some bloggers like to think of themselves as free radicals!

    Incidentally:

    http://membership.acs.org/W/WNY/db2005/db0305.html

    'Since I know the chemical profession best, I devised two questions, for instance, to tell a chemist from a nonchemist. Here they are:

    (1) How do you pronounce UNIONIZED?
    (2) What is a mole?

    In response to the first question, the nonchemist is bound to say "YOO-yun-ized," which is the logical pronunciation, and the dictionary pronunciation, too. The chemist, however, would never think of such a thing; he would say without a moment's hesitation: "un- EYE -on-ized."

    In response to the second question, the nonchemist is bound to say, "A little furry animal that burrows underground," unless he is a civil engineer who will say, "A breakwater." A chemist, on the other hand, will clear his throat, and say, "Well, it's like this -" and keep talking for hours.

    There's my cue. Shall we talk about the chemical version of the little furry animal?"

    ~~"To Tell a Chemist" Isaac Asimov 1965'

  14. No surprise there by countvlad · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Well that's the trick, isn't it? Blogs are the new soap box, and there's no shortage of people preaching to anyone who will listen (although ironically this is usually just to other bloggers). Sure, most of them are elitist pricks whom, much like many politicians, believe that they serve some vital role in our lives and without which modern society would collapse in on itself like a dying star.

    Like modern unions, this is a scam so that a few select people can wield power while deceiving everyone under them into thinking that they are necessary.

    Unless someone is paying you to blog, blogging isn't a job. Shit, you certainly don't have to come home from your 9-5 job at Starbucks and blog about every fucking aspect of your life. Saying you want to be compensated for what you produce is like me asking the County to pay me for what I flush down the toilet. If you really do want to make a business out of it then charge for your content. I'm sure within a few, short days you'll realize how completely useless and trite the crap you spew out of your pie-hole is and exactly how little anyone really cares: 0.

    I completely blame the media outlets for letting bloggers' egos get so ridiculously inflated to think that the trash they produce is somehow useful or important. People don't care what the 'blogosphere' is saying as they aren't a sample of any group but themselves. For fucks sake, if you want to write something meaningful, become a scientist and publish!

    1. Re:No surprise there by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Informative

      Like modern unions, this is a scam
      Here comes the anti-organized labor FUD.

      Pal, I don't know if you're an American, but if it wasn't for unions, there wouldn't be a middle class in this country.

      Pick up a history of labor in the US and see what working conditions here were like before the organized labor movement. Any of you have a nice relaxed day yesterday? Well, if it wasn't for labor unions, you'd have been working a full day yesterday. If you've taken a sick day in the past few years, you can thank the Union Label.

      How about health insurance? You guys like that you can go to the doctor and an insurance company picks up the tab? That was the labor unions, too. I don't know if any of you have ever been seriously hurt on the job and gotten disability pay, it's because labor unions fought like hell to get that protection. Did you get Christmas off with pay? Guess who?

      You may not realize it, but when miners, factory workers, truck drivers, etc were getting ground into dirt by an ownership class that was pissed off over the loss of slave labor, those workers got together and talked to one another, and stood together and got their heads beaten in for their trouble. A lot of them were killed by hired goons that worked for the factory owners. It took a lot of years of work by some really stand-up folks to make sure young women wouldn't get burned to death in a shirt factory that kept the doors chained so the girls wouldn't step outside for fresh air. And now we've got some check-pantsed pansies who think that if they just lick enough ass their bosses are going to take care of them, talking about how organized labor is "corrupt" but don't blink when Circuit City fires their best trained and most experienced workers just because they happened to have gotten a raise, then offered to hire them back at entry-level wages. Just wait until a few of them get laid off: Instant Progressive!

      If it wasn't for labor unions, this country would be made up of a few owners and a lot of very poor workers. With the concerted anti-union effort that started with that doddering wrinkled prick Ronald Reagan, we're headed back in that direction right quick. You better believe the ownership class is organized, via lobbies and PACs and huge political contributions. I bet you "free-market" zombies don't mind that one bit. But as soon as a few factory workers get together and decide to look out for one another, it's demonized as "socialism" or worse.

      Do bloggers need a union? Who the fuck knows. Does the US need an organized labor union? Only if you don't want to see your kids grow up to be serfs or indentured slaves, and want them to have a decent chance at the middle-class lifestyle that's becoming little more than a distant memory to you and me.

      The next time you try to forget about the fact that your 401k is dropping value like a stone by reading Investors Business Daily, take a few minutes and google "Wobblies" or "IWW". Learn about how the US became an economic and industrial powerhouse. Just as it was for Poland and many other European countries, the labor union in America was a big part of our most productive era. And how the decline of our economic standing in the world coincides neatly with the defeat of the Union Movement at the hands of "pro-growth" "free-market"-types like the ones that now call themselves "Republican".
      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
  15. Re:Unions by da5idnetlimit.com · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Hmmm... Lets get a look at Germany Unions instead, IG-Metal to be particular.

    It's the union that covers all metallurgic works, including car-making.

    They actually have a war chest that covers salaries while on strike, so it can go-on for a longer time to FORCE the Bosses to give-in before it cost them their own bonuses.

    => Ig-Metal affiliates are among the best paid in their work line in Europe.

    Please remember Capitalism is "rule of the strongest", and that as a worker you have to make it work for you, the lowest link in the pyramid.

    "When everything else has failed, give it a kick. It will satisfy a deep urge and sometime even make it work" (Me) - works also quite well for the non-physical world.

    --
    It takes 40+ muscles to frown, but only four to extend your arm and bitchslap the motherfucker