Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Two AI Pioneers, Two Bizarre Suicides

Posted by Soulskill on from the unfortunate-losses dept.

BotnetZombie writes "Wired tells the quite sad but very interesting stories of Chris McKinstry and Pushpinder Singh. Initially self-educated, both had the idea to create huge fact databases from which AI agents could feed, hoping to eventually have something that could reason at a human level or better. McKinstry leveraged the dotcom era to grow his database. Singh had the backing of MIT, where he eventually got his PhD and had been offered a position as a professor alongside his mentor, Marvin Minsky. Sadly, personal life was more troublesome for them, and the story ends in a tragic way.

12 of 427 comments (clear)

  1. McKinstry was a kook by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative


    Check out the flamewars in the wpg.general newsgroup. McKinstry ("McChimp") was a liar and self-promoting ass until he took off from Winnipeg leaving debt in his wake. He was not a visionary, he was a drug-addled delusional kook. Hell I remember his bogus "OxyLock" protection scheme which, like any protection scheme, utterly failed.

    disclosure: I'm in a few of the usenet posts as he and I were about the same age and grew up in the same city.

    1. Re:McKinstry was a kook by tomhudson · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The basic premise is flawed.

      After a few months, however, McKinstry abandoned the bot, insisting that the premise of the test was flawed. He developed an alternative yardstick for AI, which he called the Minimum Intelligent Signal Test. The idea was to limit human-computer dialog to questions that required yes/no answers. (Is Earth round? Is the sky blue?) If a machine could correctly answer as many questions as a human, then that machine was intelligent. "Intelligence didn't depend on the bandwidth of the communication channel; intelligence could be communicated with one bit!" he later wrote.

      According to that criteria, a dead-tree book is "intelligent."

      Intelligence requires the ability to answer "yes" or "no". Sometimes, the intelligent answer is "maybe". Sometimes, its "I don't know." And, ironically, sometimes, its "fuck off and die."

      Classic example of a question that can't be properly answered by a yes or no: "Do you still beat your wife?" Intelligence goes beyond simple logic.

    2. Re:McKinstry was a kook by tomhudson · · Score: 5, Interesting

      "Dogs don't even understand our language, they clearly cannot tell when we are lying"

      You clearly don't have enough experience with dogs. They can tell. Eventually, they can even figure out the word "bath" if we spell it instead of saying it. They understand the difference between "do you want to go outside" and "youy're not going outside", and "come get a treat" and "come get a cookie" Bear doesn't like the treats, but he likes chocolate chip cookies. He knows the difference between "treat" and "cookie". Toby clearly understands "don't go in the garbage", but he still sneaks into it when he thinks he can get away with it, and he pretends nothing's wrong up to the moment of discovery, at which point he KNOWS he's been busted, even before I say anything.

      There was a cat that temporarily had a limp. It got more attention when it was limping, so if anyone was watching, it limped. As soon as it thought nobody was watching, it walked perfectly normal. Even cats know how to lie, and can do it intentionally.

  2. Re:They just wanted... by seeker_1us · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Yes. This was a terribly sad article.

    I read this part

    While Singh was climbing the academic ladder at MIT, McKinstry was trying to put his life back together after spending two and a half months in jail. But the suicidal standoff had given him a new sense of purpose. He liked to think that the police robot had deliberately misfired its tear gas canisters in an effort to save him "Maybe robots do have feelings," he later mused. By 1992, McKinstry had enrolled at the University of Winnipeg and immersed himself in the study of artificial intelligence.

    I mean... that's inspiring.

    And then, he falls apart and kills himself on the web years later, abandoning his dream because of a fundamental flaw, he was a geek but he didn't have business sense.

    That's about as close to Greek Tragedy as you can get.

  3. reminds me of this one sci-fi story by krnpimpsta · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I can't remember the name, but there was this one Sci-fi story about the human race being grown by a superior species. In the same way that we would grow bacteria in a petri dish and put a ring of penecillin around it to kill all bacteria that try to leave that specific area, we were also being confined. But we were confined intellectually - our penecillin was "the discovery of an invisible nuclear shield" that could protect against a nuclear blast. In the story, every scientist who came close to this discovery would commit suicide. The story follows one particularly brilliant scientist who easily solved the problem, but was consumed by an irrisistable urge to kill himself once he figured it out.

    Anyone remember the name of that story? Or was it a book? I don't remember.. but it's pretty interesting to think about - especially if AI researchers begin to have a statistically higher probability of suicide.

    Maybe this is our penecillin?

    --

    New webcomic updated on Sundays: HERE

    1. Re:reminds me of this one sci-fi story by lobiusmoop · · Score: 5, Informative

      It is a short sory by Isaac Asimov called "Breeds there a Man...?".

      If you like that, I'd recommend the movie Pi which has similar ideas.

      --
      "I bless every day that I continue to live, for every day is pure profit."
  4. It's discouraging by Animats · · Score: 5, Informative

    It's discouraging reading this. Especially since I knew some of the Cyc people back in the 1980s, when they were pursuing the same idea. They're still at it. You can even train their system if you like. But after twenty years of their claiming "Strong AI, Real Soon Now", it's probably not happening.

    I went through Stanford CS back when it was just becoming clear that "expert systems" were really rather dumb and weren't going to get smarter. Most of the AI faculty was in denial about that. Very discouraging. The "AI Winter" followed; all the startups went bust, most of the research projects ended, and there was a big empty room of cubicles labeled "Knowledge Systems Laboratory" on the second floor of the Gates Building. I still wonder what happened to the people who got degrees in "Knowledge Engineering". "Do you want fries with that?"

    MIT went into a phase where Rod Brooks took over the AI Lab and put everybody on little dumb robots, at roughly the Lego Mindstorms level. Minsky bitched that all the students were soldering instead of learning theory. After a decade or so, it became clear that reactive robot AI could get you to insect level, but no further. Brooks went into the floor-cleaning business (Roomba, Scooba, Dirt Dog, etc.) with the technology, with some success.

    Then came the DARPA Grand Challenge. Dr. Tony Tether, the head of DARPA, decided that AI robotics needed a serious kick in the butt. That's what the DARPA Grand Challenge was really all about. It was made clear to the universities receiving DARPA money that if they didn't do well in that game, the money supply would be turned off. It worked. Levels of effort not before seen on a single AI project produced some good results. Stanford had to replace many of the old faculty, but that worked out well in the end.

    This is, at last, encouraging. The top-down strong AI problem was just too hard. Insect-level AI, with no world model, was too dumb. But robot vehicle AI, with world models updated by sensors, is now real. So there's progress. The robot vehicle problem is nice because it's so unforgiving. The thing actually has to work; you can't hand-wave around the problems.

    The classic bit of hubris in AI, by the way, is to have a good idea and then think it's generally applicable. AI has been through this too many times - the General Problem Solver, inference by theorem proving, neural nets, expert systems, neural nets again, and behavior-based AI. Each of those ideas has a ceiling which has been reached.

    It's possible to get too deep into some of these ideas. The people there are brilliant, but narrow, and the culture supports this. MIT has "Nerd Pride" buttons. As someone recruiting me for the Media Lab once said, "There are fewer distractions out here" (It was sleeting.) It sounds like that's what happened to these two young people.

  5. I knew him back in those days by freeweed · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Couldn't have said it better myself. I knew Chris for a few years back in the day (even stayed at his house on Maryland a few times), and you nailed it. He was a drug abusing paranoid kook who videotaped CNN 24 hours a day and watched it on fast-forward to see if anything the US government was doing might be affecting him. He was your stereotypical geek who never got past his teenage pathos of "the MAN is trying to get me" - and as such, pretty much refused to get any real sort of work after a while. He just moved on to scamming people. Leaving behind debt is an understatement.

    He did have access to some pretty potent LSD, though. Before knowing him, I always thought LSD was pretty harmless, but with the quantities that man could ingest, I now wonder if permanent brain damage kicks in. And he loved to combine it with a little coke - or whatever other easily accessible drug was around.

    Funny, the last I had heard about him was his mindpixel scam. Which made me chuckle a lot, because very few people seemed to catch on that the entire project was just the ravings of a drug-addled lunatic.

    I didn't realize he finally offed himself. I say finally because everyone who knew him expected it "any day now" - since at least the early 90s. I'm rather astounded he held on so long.

    --
    Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
  6. Chronic pain and suicide by vorpal22 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It isn't really surprising that one of them killed himself due to chronic pain. I myself suffer from it due to complications of Crohn's Disease, and after several months of this, I was pursuing euthanasia as a serious option, much to the horrible upset of the very few loved ones that I told. Note that this wasn't an emotional response to the problem, in my opinion: I had considered my options coolly and calmly and it felt like the best course of action and the most effective solution to the problem.

    Having to live your life in constant pain is worse than you can imagine if you've never had to go through it: you wake up in the morning (provided you could sleep), and you spend the entire day cranky and miserable because you feel horrid. All you do is look forward to the night because again - if you're able to fall asleep - you'll have several hours of some respite from the pain. You rarely feel social or productive because you can't focus your attention or get over your irritability. You're wracked with guilt because you're unable to treat your loved ones with the kindness that they deserve, particularly for putting up with you, and you feel alienated from everyone because few people know what you're going through and you frequently cannot tell them the thoughts that go through your head as they probably often do involve suicide or euthanasia, and psychiatric institutionalization - which is what you worry might be forced upon you - simply isn't going to help, since it won't fix the core issue and the problem isn't psychological.

    Now extend this to months or years with no end in sight and see how you feel.

    Fortunately for me, I was finally able to find a doctor who was willing to prescribe me opioid pain medication and help me get involved with a pain management clinic that teaches mindfulness based meditation, and now I'm doing much better: I'm able to function, I'm looking for a job, I want to see my family and friends on a regular basis, I'm much more pleasant to be around, I can exercise daily, and I'm no longer interested in euthanasia. However, most pain sufferers are *not* as lucky as I am, because doctors are not willing to prescribe long-term use of opioids due to the horrible rules and regulations surrounding these drugs that have been introduced due to their addictive nature. The difficulty in obtaining them is why some people become addicted to heroin; Kurt Cobain is a good example of such a person, who suffered from severe abdominal pain until he found some respite when he took it.

    If anything, people need to fight for their right for quality of life. Yes, opioid abuse can be a serious problem in society, but the people who need these drugs often do not have the strength to put up the huge fight to get them and they must have regular access to them. Perhaps if Singh had been prescribed some relief to his problem, he might still be with us today.

  7. Push ... so sad by FlunkedFlank · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Wow, Push was my TA in Minsky's class in '96. He was an incredibly thoughtful and brilliant soul. He had the sysiphean task of grading several hundred long AI papers all by himself, and the papers all miraculously came back with voluminous detailed and insightful comments. I am just learning of this now. To see that he had achieved such great heights in his career only to end it the way he did ... will we ever be able to find any meaning in this, or is it just one of those inexplicable twists of human behavior?

    This whole story reminds me of the poem Richard Cory (http://www.bartleby.com/104/45.html):

    WHENEVER Richard Cory went down town,
    We people on the pavement looked at him:
    He was a gentleman from sole to crown,
    Clean favored, and imperially slim.

    And he was always quietly arrayed,
    And he was always human when he talked;
    But still he fluttered pulses when he said,
    "Good-morning," and he glittered when he walked.

    And he was rich--yes, richer than a king,
    And admirably schooled in every grace:
    In fine, we thought that he was everything
    To make us wish that we were in his place.

    So on we worked, and waited for the light,
    And went without the meat, and cursed the bread;
    And Richard Cory, one calm summer night,
    Went home and put a bullet through his head.
  8. Suicide and LSD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As someone who has attempted suicide I think I might have a unique perspective on the matter. The reasons very widely from person to person, and I wont discount the possibility that maybe sometimes it's a justifiable act, but for most people it's not the only solution. It's just usually one of the easiest ones. I can only speak about my own experiences, but after struggling with a lot of hard problems--many things that no one should ever be subjected to--something uncomplicated and easy looked increasingly like a good idea. You're getting beat up from all sides of your life and some people break, some sooner than others. I know what it's like to have something you worked so long for yanked out from under you. What are you to do after that happens? You had one thing in life that you could do and now it's gone.

    When you reach that kind of despair it's hard to find your way back to the world. How many great minds and potential contributors to science, art and human culture are lost to suicide before their potential is reached? It was certainly a waste for these two scientists to die. It's a waste, and there's usually always something that could have been done to save them. And it is in society's best interest to help these people any way we can.

    What saved me was, sometime after my attempted suicide I tried the drug LSD for the first time. I've never been the same since that day, for the better I mean. I came to understand things about the nature of consciousness, and how the soul and experiences of all things are connected on such a basic level. Up until that point I felt alone and isolated, physically and emotionally, but I saw and felt how that just is not true at all. The feelings of fear and anger and hopelessness were gone. I now use LSD about 5 or 6 times a year, all have been wonderful experiences so far. It is a crime against humanity that this drug is illegal. It should be given to anyone (in a safe environment and under supervision) who is suicidal. In fact, it should be given to anyone who wants it. It literally saved me. I would likely be dead if I had not experienced that permanent personality changing event. This drug is not addictive. It is not deadly in moderation. It is not corrosive to the fabric of civilization. It is a threat however to the established authorities that want us to remain numb to each other and scared. If everyone could experience it once, we could all feel that universal connection, and there would be no reason to feel alone or worthless or end your own life for so many people who think that's their only way to escape.

    I'm sorry that this got so off course (mod it as such if you will), but the topic of suicide is so important to me now, and I want people to have the same chance that I had.

    I thank Albert Hofmann for my life and my enlightenment, and for giving this gift to all humanity. Perhaps one day we will be more inclined to accept it.

    "I think that in human evolution it has never been as necessary to have this substance LSD. It is just a tool to turn us into what we are supposed to be." -Albert Hofmann

  9. Re:They just wanted... by flyingsquid · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Yeah, but he was forced to take some hormones or something after being accused of being gay, maybe that caused the imbalance that led to his suicide. Terrible loss anyway...

    Alan Turing wasn't "accused" of being gay, he was a homosexual, by his own admission. He was charged with being a homosexual, and convicted. He lost his security clearance and with it, the ability to work on cryptography. He started to grow enlarged breasts because of the estrogen injections. He was punished and humiliated for being homosexual, something he was powerless to change. Put yourself in that situation: you can't pursue the work you love, you can't be who you are, you can't be who society tells you to be. You're growing boobs and the irony is that unlike most men, you wouldn't even get turned on by fondling them. Your professional and personal life are ruined and the prospect of any of this changing in the near future, if ever, seems remote. Who wouldn't have become depressed, and miserable, and started having suicidal thoughts?