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Is Tech Bringing Us Closer Together Instead of Allowing Us to Sprawl?

A columnist for Wired has an interesting look at how telecommunications are actually making it more interesting to reside in populated areas instead of allowing the complete disregard for distance. "Technology makes it more fun and more profitable to live and work close to the people who matter most to your life and work. Harvard economist Ed Glaeser, an expert on city economies, argues that communications technology and face-to-face interactions are complements like salt and pepper, rather than substitutes like butter and margarine. Paradoxically, your cell phone, email, and Facebook networks are making it more attractive to meet people in the flesh."

32 of 138 comments (clear)

  1. Tech can't let us sprawl by c0d3h4x0r · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You can't get cheap high-speed internet, reliable cellular service, or even reliable grounded electricity out in many smaller rural areas. Tech doesn't facilitate sprawl; sprawl facilitates tech.

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    1. Re:Tech can't let us sprawl by QuasiEvil · · Score: 3, Informative

      Um, unless you live up in the air, lack of a reliable ground is your own damn fault no matter where you live. It's provided by a giant rod out by the meter, connected to the ground conductors, and pounded deep into just what you'd expect - the ground.

    2. Re:Tech can't let us sprawl by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      I do live up in the air, you insensitive clod!

    3. Re:Tech can't let us sprawl by camperdave · · Score: 2, Informative

      Of course it violated code. Grounding has been required by code since 1962. You should contact the local authorities and have that firetrap rewired before someone gets hurt.

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      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    4. Re:Tech can't let us sprawl by MidnightBrewer · · Score: 2, Informative

      Anybody who lives above the first floor (AKA "in the air"), not to mention people who live in an apartment building, can suffer from a no grounding situation that they can't do anything about. Basically the entire country of Japan (where I live) is not grounded, even though power strips are ironically three-pronged (Japan has the same plug as North America). However, there is a recourse for people with metal piping: you can ground your outlets by running ground wires to the cold water pipe under your kitchen sink, which in turn leads down to the ground and makes an excellent grounding system. Not necessarily completely tidy or elegant, but functional.

      --
      "Give a man fire, and he'll be warm for a day; set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life
    5. Re:Tech can't let us sprawl by shiftless · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Before replying to someone in a smart ass manner you might want to actually know WTF you're talking about. I spent six years in the Air Guard in the SATCOM field, and I set up plenty of grounding systems. There are plenty of areas where you simply cannot get a good ground, due to the soil conditions. A typical example is areas where the soil is really sandy. There are all kinds of other soil properties that make grounding difficult, that's just one example.

  2. Absolutely by overshoot · · Score: 4, Informative

    Paradoxically, your cell phone, email, and Facebook networks are making it more attractive to meet people in the flesh."
    And as a result, I choose to live in a place where I don't have to drive to go everywhere: a small town where walking actually gets me places instead of an endless sea of other residences.
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    Lacking <sarcasm> tags, /. substitutes moderation as "Troll."
    1. Re:Absolutely by NIckGorton · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I think the article and you are both right. Smaller places that are close to the 'Superstar Cities' in TFA are the ideal. I live in Davis, CA, which has the small town feel (though its actually a small city.) It is 70 miles from the closest 'Superstar City', San Francisco - which I visit just enough for it to be pleasant (several times a month.)

      So I get the high speed access, university atmosphere, and small town feel while still having access to SFO. Now if it weren't for all the drunk college kids it would be perfect.

    2. Re:Absolutely by PhoenixRising · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And as a result, I choose to live in a place where I don't have to drive to go everywhere: a small town where walking actually gets me places instead of an endless sea of other residences.
      I too choose to live in a place where I don't have to drive to go everywhere: a large town where walking actually gets me places instead of an endless sea of other residences.

      I also choose to live in a place where I don't have to drive to go everywhere: a large city where walking, biking, and public transit all get me places instead of an endless sea of other residences.

      Really, I think all you're saying is "life sucks for those in suburban hell." :)

    3. Re:Absolutely by xaxa · · Score: 2, Informative

      Paradoxically, your cell phone, email, and Facebook networks are making it more attractive to meet people in the flesh."


      And as a result, I choose to live in a place where I don't have to drive to go everywhere: a small town where walking actually gets me places instead of an endless sea of other residences. Something I like about London (the only city with over half-a-million people that I've lived in) is it's essentially lots of small towns with no space between them. There's a community (shops, cafes, pubs, parks) probably within 10 minutes walk of everywhere in inner London and probably much of the rest. This is the case in most of the UK, although the 'small towns' making up the city are smaller than here. I haven't spent enough time in the USA to know, but is it similar? I expect older cities (New York say) to be like this, but maybe newer cities aren't?

    4. Re:Absolutely by Profane+MuthaFucka · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Our cities are absolutely wonderful places to be. When I'm driving around, my 4 wheels are always on solid pavement. Sometimes I'm asked to move at 70 miles an hour or more, but it's not all work. I spend vast amounts of time driving very slowly with thousands of other cars, bumper to bumper. It's a great opportunity to get to know the cute Chevrolet in the next lane. And several times a day I get to go out to parking lots where I can do more mingling with other cars in parking lots. My driver almost never walks anywhere. He buys me all the gas I need. I've very well taken care of.

      On the other hand, if I were a human, these cities wouldn't be very good at all. It's obvious to everybody that these beautiful cities just weren't designed for people at all. They are designed for cars like me, and it's wonderful being a car in these modern American cities. I don't know why the humans don't just leave for someplace they might feel more comfortable.

      --
      Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
    5. Re:Absolutely by Laserwulf · · Score: 2, Funny

      I am a drunk college kid, you insensitive clod!

      Now who wants to play Halo 3?

      --
      "Make cyberlove, not cyberwar!" -Khaed(544779)
    6. Re:Absolutely by dmsuperman · · Score: 2, Funny

      The drunk college kids are the best kind. Who else would be willing to have a threesome with 2 random people (you and some other chick)?

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      :(){ :|:& };: Go!
  3. That's because... by Paul+Pierce · · Score: 3, Funny

    All girls look hot in their Profile Pictures

  4. Hmm... by caitsith01 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Paradoxically, your cell phone, email, and Facebook networks are making it more attractive to meet people in the flesh.

    Only because when people choose a picture for Facebook or Myspace, they always pick one which drastically misrepresents how attractive they are...

    Personally, I'm not sure I accept/understand the underlying premise - why would we want to 'sprawl' and have less interaction anyway? Living in a city for me and many people I know has nothing to do with compulsion, it's because it's fun, interesting, and a centre for culture, entertainment, and humans generally. Most people actually WANT more human interaction, not the Unabomber life. As such, I'm not sure how this (supposed) effect is "paradoxical".
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    Read Pynchon.
  5. I live in NZ and work around the world by EmbeddedJanitor · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I can do this because of the internet + phone etc. Because I work from home it is easy for me to schedule international conference calls late at night etc. So yes, geographic distance is reduced. Where I work does not have to be where I live.

    But what about personal/relationship distance? Communications via email, text etc does seem to be replacing quality relationship time with a higher quantity of low-quality interactions. At a personal level we're drifting further apart. People no longer see themselves as members of a tight-knit local community but more as members of a global community. This defitiely impacts negatively on local neighbourhoods.

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    Engineering is the art of compromise.
  6. Digital Signature by Amorymeltzer · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It's something that's been changing for a while now. In a world where typing your name and writing your email address can legally constitute a signature, it would seem that we can remain disconnected easier. If anything, while it may make things like a handshake more rare, it makes it much more valuable. Imagine if you received a handwritten letter in the mail - it could be a death threat and you'd still be blown away by the care and thoughtfulness the author put into it.

    Technology is ALL about bringing us closer. Most no one's invented or created anything that brings us further away from each other. How close we used to be to people at 5mi can now be replicated at 10mi, making the people 5mi away that much closer. Humans crave contact - nothing will ever replace hanging out and joking around with some friends - and things like email, Facebook, IM, and SMS make it easier. It's the old argument of making the world smaller.

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    I live in constant fear of the Coming of the Red Spiders.
  7. Wired? by Dr.+Evil · · Score: 2, Funny

    Are they still relevant?

    Can I filter out articles linking to them?

  8. How I cope by EmbeddedJanitor · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I live rurally. Without tech, I could not work internationally and live at home.
    I have wireless broadband which is expensive, but I get 2Mbps which is fine so long as I don't try stream video etc. In other words it is fine for almost all work stuff.
    I don't have cell reception, but if you're at home then landline typically works or I could VoIP.
    I probably get more power outages than cityfolks, but I have UPSs to give me a clean shutdown.

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    Engineering is the art of compromise.
    1. Re:How I cope by c0d3h4x0r · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes, but your situation doesn't invalidate my point.

      My point is that technology follows sprawl, not the other way around. When enough people move out to new areas and start creating enough demand for the tech in those areas, then the tech infrastructure will finally get built. Until then, very few tech-minded people are going to choose to live in remote areas, and those that do (such as yourself) are going to have to pay extra and use workarounds.

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    2. Re:How I cope by mini+me · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I live out on the farm and have access to pretty much all the technology that most people who live in major cities have. The government has made a big push to make sure the less populated areas are not left behind. If it were truly a free market, you'd be right, but there are other factors that come into play.

  9. Not so much... by DoctorPepper · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I commute 50+ miles each way to work, but sometimes I work from home. Depends on how I feel. The nice "tech" the company provides me with: a ThinkPad T61, a cellphone and a bridge line, also allow me to maintain contact with my team, some of which are in Jacksonville (FL), while others are in Charlotte, NC, San Francisco, CA, and others are in Hyderabad, India.

    I talk with team members via phone, email and instant messaging constantly, and the majority of these people I've never met face-to-face.

    Sounds to me like tech is making it easier for work groups to "sprawl" around the country, and the world.

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    No matter where you go... there you are.
  10. Re:Neighborhoods by AuMatar · · Score: 3, Interesting

    There already are. There's the Portugese Ghetto (Orkut), the Korean ghetto (Starcraft forums), the American Ghetto (Myspace), etc.

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    I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
  11. Outsourcing killed the telecommuters by heroine · · Score: 5, Interesting

    In the sense that almost every job which can be done remotely is done from India, there is great interest in jobs that involve face time. If those were most of the remaining jobs in recession 1.0, they'll be the only jobs left in recession 2.0.

  12. The Wrong Question by bitspotter · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This isn't a case of: "what does technology do to you?"
    It's more like: "what do YOU do with IT?"

    This isn't to say that new technologies can't oppress you in new ways when they are forced on you in (eg) employment relationships; just that the core of the problem there isn't technology - it's the employment relationship.

    When we are given real control over whether and how to use technology, it's plenty liberating; but putting a pager on a serf just amplifies his subservient condition.

  13. Re:What Happened to My Long Tail? by Lijemo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Isn't this pretty much the opposite of the "long-tail" theory?

    I guess every stupid sociological theory deserves an equally stupid response.

    How are the two even related? The Long Tail is about what people like to buy, TFA is about human interaction. Apples and TRS-80s.

  14. There are some worthwhile cities by overshoot · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I too choose to live in a place where I don't have to drive to go everywhere: a large town where walking actually gets me places instead of an endless sea of other residences.
    Most reasonably livable cities predate zoning. Once the idea of limiting what was allowed to be where came in, the inevitable end was the Southern California bedroom community, where it's illegal to have anything but residential property -- for miles in all directions. If you want to drop in for a pint, the nearest tap is ten miles away.

    I'll class San Francisco as partly livable; Pacific Heights being a powerful counterexample. The older parts of Portland are still OK, but the burbs are a disaster. Seattle was all right until the Microsoft Millionaires bought up so much of the in-town real estate for game nights. Most other Western cities are a joke.

    The East is a lot more complicated, but what bright spots I've seen are specs in a sea of creeping unlivability. I haven't seen that much of Europe from ground level but what I have seen isn't encouraging.

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    Lacking <sarcasm> tags, /. substitutes moderation as "Troll."
    1. Re:There are some worthwhile cities by ushering05401 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      While living in the southwestern U.S. tech did nothing to physically connect me with anyone because it was too damn hard to overcome the vast distances of the region on a regular basis.

      After leaving NYC in '01 I moved to New England. Up here the story is exactly the opposite. Every county up here is its own little microcosm and networking through tech has put me in touch with all sorts of people who are easily accesible.

      I am fairly certain that it is not merely the geographical isolation of southwest vs northeast, but perhaps the psychological difference of growing up in these disparate environments that alters the way tech networking impacts your life.

      BTW, online networking in NYC was only a fraction as effective as actually going out. You can meet any type of person in the course of a given night with only moderate social skills/social engineering abilities.

    2. Re:There are some worthwhile cities by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      My first experience with the idea of zoning was in SimCity. No European cities are designed along that kind of line. The closest you get is industrial estates, which are typically built on the outskirts of cities to avoid polluting the centre. The idea of separating residential and commerical areas seems to invalidate the point of a city; if you need to drive to get to work then why don't you just live in the countryside and enjoy more private space?

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  15. Not if you're a ham radio operator by LM741N · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Parts of the hobby are dying out because people no longer have any space to put up antennas. And if they try something indoors, they find it flooded with computer hash. I'll take a country farm any day.

  16. False dichotomy by BeanThere · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The answer is "both". Technology gives us more options. Those that like living closer (evidently, most) can choose to do so. Those that like getting away (evidently, a minority) now also can and do choose to do so. There's always some pros and cons to either decision, but at least more options are available now.

  17. Re:That isn't all there is at all... by secretwhistle · · Score: 2, Funny

    The method you described, mindlessly pounding a rod into the earth, can produce a transient signal.
    Mindless rod-pounding has produced a lot more than that.