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Microsoft Ties $235m IT Aid To Use of Windows

E5Rebel writes "Microsoft will spend $235m in schools worldwide over the next five years, part of a plan to triple the number of students and teachers trained in its software programs to up to 270 million by 2013. 'Microsoft's investment shows how important it views developing markets to its future business. Last year, Microsoft introduced the Student Innovation Suite, which includes the XP Starter Edition plus educational applications, for $3 for qualifying countries. Microsoft faces heated competition from companies supporting the open-source OS Linux and associated software in developing countries. "I think as a company we welcome choice," [Orlando Ayala] said. "Frankly, we welcome the competition." The company's educational funding comes with a hitch: "Of course, that includes the fact they [the schools] use Windows," Ayala said.' If you don't use Windows you don't get the cash." Microsoft has long been interested in the education of children.

214 comments

  1. Of course they welcome competition... by mr_resident · · Score: 5, Funny


    it's where they get all their best ideas!

    (calm down modders - it's just a joke)

  2. Subsidy not aid by MosesJones · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This isn't aid, its a subsidy to grow the Windows market. Aid would be focused on the end-goal of the people, not on the end-goal of the company.

    This is a blatant case of a monopoly subsidising to establish itself in emerging markets.

    The NYT has a page that is still up

    --
    An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
    1. Re:Subsidy not aid by jorghis · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Free training is not monopoly subsidising. Its just a different business model, they charge for the software and give free training. Other companies give away the software and make their money on support and training. There is nothing wrong with giving away free stuff (like training) in order to grow your market share.

      I would like to see more competition in the consumer OS market as well and MS may have crossed the line in the past, but screaming "monopoly abuse!" every time MS makes any kind of business deal is just silly.

    2. Re:Subsidy not aid by smilindog2000 · · Score: 1, Funny

      Wow... I didn't see this coming. I figured it was impossible for Microsoft to undercut free software... guess I was wrong! I'm teaching my kids Ubuntu, however, I can be bribed to switch :-) If Microsoft would like one less slashdotter bashing Windows, a promise of free lifetime software and maybe a few hundred bucks would do the trick.

      --
      Beer is proof that God loves us, and wants us to be happy.
    3. Re:Subsidy not aid by natenovs · · Score: 5, Insightful

      When I was in elementary school none of our class rooms had computers. My fifth grade teacher when to the Microsoft Technology training course and was able to get our class room 5 computers. This was my first exposure to computers. I don't care if you hate Microsoft, the fact that they put a keyboard in my hands got me interested in computing. I would not be where I am today if that did not happen. To this I am grateful to Microsoft, and more accurate probably, my fifth grade teacher.

    4. Re:Subsidy not aid by moderatorrater · · Score: 1

      This is a good thing for all of IT. I learned Microsoft as a kid through DOS, Windows in all its forms, and their servers. Proficiency in computers translates to all systems. OSS is a heavy hitter in the server market, so anyone going into a serious career with IT is going to have to learn to deal with it.

      In other words, this will help grow the Microsoft user base, but only for people who will get functional with computers and won't excel. For those who want to excel, they'll learn alternatives as naturally as a normal person tries a new food at their favorite restaurant.

    5. Re:Subsidy not aid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How do you figure that it will not grow the amount of people who will excel with computers? Just because someone who excels needs to know more than Microsoft (if you are accepting that premise, I do not), doesn't mean that a properly trained teacher on Microsoft products can't teach a student who will then say "Hey, I know how to use this machine now, I wonder what else it can do." And that may never have happened if the classroom didn't have the computers or had the computers but the teacher had no idea what to do with them.

      Also, there are lots of people who can excel with just Microsoft technologies. Are you saying that there are no businesses running Server 2003? Are you saying there are no applications developed strictly for Windows? If you are, then you are a fool. PC Game development is almost entirely Windows based, and then there is the XBox which is a Microsoft product. That is just one industry where you can excel and never touch a linux box.

    6. Re:Subsidy not aid by ronadams · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The problem here is that I don't pay taxes to fund public schools so Microsoft can go advertise their products. Enhancing vendor lock through targeting public institutions is not cool with me. OTOH, maybe open-source advocates should just offer free training and resources of their own.

      Withholding judgment...

      --
      Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars.
    7. Re:Subsidy not aid by AoT · · Score: 1

      i don't know. I think that being forced to use windows for y entire life would make me complain more, not less.

    8. Re:Subsidy not aid by cHiphead · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Thats the problem, the training isnt free, its SUBSIDIZED. You HAVE to use MS products in exchange for their 'free' training. There is an ethical line you can cross by using a monopoly position coupled with free training to grow market share. Not mention possible tax fraud if MS is writing off all of this money spent and in turn getting a kickback in the form of new sales and other market growth factors.

      Cheers.

      --

      This is my sig. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    9. Re:Subsidy not aid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Free training is not monopoly subsidising. Its just a different business model, they charge for the software and give free training. Other companies give away the software and make their money on support and training. There is nothing wrong with giving away free stuff (like training) in order to grow your market share.


      agreed, as long as they don't call it "aid" or give the implication that they are doing this out of the "kindness" of their hearts.
    10. Re:Subsidy not aid by hansonc · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If your school district were properly funded through your tax dollars they wouldn't need to take Microsoft's money to fill out their budget needs. Until people figure out that they should be voting for every single school bonding issue, schools need to come up with funds somewhere. They might as well take Microsoft's money and provide education in the software the students will need to know when they get out of school.

    11. Re:Subsidy not aid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is aid indeed. What do you expect? Microsoft to give money to under-developed countries so they can install Linux and have all the kids spending thousands of years trying to find a way to uninstall a program, instead of having them getting ready to the IT market that uses Windows on 94% of its computers? (the other 6% uses Apple)
      See, Linux is a pathetic imperialist tool used only by American geek-kids. Only Americans and their evil followers use it. The rest of the world uses, and needs, Windows.
      And, besides, is their money, they give to whoever they want to give. And if they don't give to any Linux user I will be really happy.

    12. Re:Subsidy not aid by jimicus · · Score: 1

      Free training is not monopoly subsidising. Its just a different business model, they charge for the software and give free training.

      It is when they're not charging for the software either.

    13. Re:Subsidy not aid by jayp00001 · · Score: 1

      There is an ethical line you can cross by using a monopoly position coupled with free training to grow market share.


      What monopoly position? Are you saying there are no free and or open source alternatives to windows? If there is no existing usage the playing field was open. The difference is Microsoft it offering free training if you use their products. There's nothing stopping red hat or apple (as they have in the past) from offering to do the same.
    14. Re:Subsidy not aid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you just explained why Linux fails and the support is nowhere to be found.

      "possible"...
      What are you whinning about common business practices. Go take an economics course and pull your head out of your behind.

    15. Re:Subsidy not aid by RightSaidFred99 · · Score: 1

      Wow. You people make absolutely no sense. In your world, Microsoft should provide free training for its competitors' products? What's amusing is you probably seriously think that's rational. Wake me up when Redhat donates money to train school IT staff and trains the ones using Windows as well as the ones using Redhat.

    16. Re:Subsidy not aid by frith01 · · Score: 1

      Think about what might happen if the "Religious Corporation" decided it would be to their benefit to sponsor a Social Studies class, but only if they did not teach "Evolution".

    17. Re:Subsidy not aid by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      I would like to see more competition in the consumer OS market as well and MS may have crossed the line in the past, but screaming "monopoly abuse!" every time MS makes any kind of business deal is just silly.
      The problem is that Microsoft is a monopoly. This means that actions that are perfectly legal and ethical for some companies may not be legal and ethical for them. It doesn't matter if other companies did similar actions in the past or not.

      The "in the past" statement is mostly irrelevant. If someone abuses you in the past, then they should have to make a positive effort to regain trust. Even if they say "but that was the old me, you can trust me now."
    18. Re:Subsidy not aid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And hopefully you have now upgraded to using Linux?

    19. Re:Subsidy not aid by Bu11etmagnet · · Score: 1

      My fifth grade teacher when to the Microsoft Technology training course

      This sentence no verb.

      --
      Life is complex, with real and imaginary parts.
    20. Re:Subsidy not aid by natenovs · · Score: 1

      it's a sentence with a typo.
      and you are a prick.

    21. Re:Subsidy not aid by jorghis · · Score: 1

      agreed, as long as they don't call it "aid" or give the implication that they are doing this out of the "kindness" of their hearts. Every company does this. Do you think toy companies sell toys because they love children? Putting an altruistic spin on everything is something all companies do.
    22. Re:Subsidy not aid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "when" vs. "went" is not a typo, it's more of a think-o. It happens.

    23. Re:Subsidy not aid by jayp00001 · · Score: 1

      OK I'll bite, so what. If the 700 club decides to offer cash to not teach evolution today do you really think schools would all of a sudden just take the money and cut out the info? Maybe your analogy is bad but I don't see schools dumping stuff just to take cash.

    24. Re:Subsidy not aid by FireFury03 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Free training is not monopoly subsidising. Its just a different business model, they charge for the software and give free training. Other companies give away the software and make their money on support and training. There is nothing wrong with giving away free stuff (like training) in order to grow your market share.

      This isn't "free training" - Microsoft are trying to shape the existing educational system to push their agenda. IMHO *no* company should be able to influence the direction of general education by handing over wonga. If they want to donate money then that's fine, but they shouldn't get to influence what the school does.

      If Microsoft (or anyone else) wants to offer free training they can damned well run courses outside of school hours rather than hijacking the existing schooling system. Companies are not the right people to be deciding what the kids get taught in mandatory lessons since they will usually choose what is best for themselves rather than what is best for the students.

    25. Re:Subsidy not aid by FromTheHorizon · · Score: 1

      One could argue that this applies to all aid to the developing world - we're just growing markets that we can sell more things to!

    26. Re:Subsidy not aid by cHiphead · · Score: 1

      Your lack of understanding is disappointing. Microsoft is the only software company with the cash to just throw around $200+ million on such a thing. They have billions they can leverage in a tax-paying non-ethics violating commercial way to grow market share, and they still feel the need to use SCHOOLS in this way to leverage their market share, both in the immediate (what, you thought they wouldn't include all of the $3/ea licenses they give the schools in their marketing numbers?), and the long term (teaching students windows now and getting them oriented towards its quirks and design, as opposed to general use). I'm certainly not opposed to MS donating licenses (or SUBSIDIZING the cost and charging very little, which they tend to do now) for schools and students to use MS software, but tacking on a requirement that all competitors be cut out as part of the deal is not an honest effort towards furthering education. Its a very egotistical and selfish strategy to build good PR and get a tax cut.

      In this case, there is no Redhat et al. to be learned when you take this money.

      --

      This is my sig. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    27. Re:Subsidy not aid by Agarax · · Score: 1

      I agree.

      I'm not the biggest fan of MS at times, but this is hardly a case of them abusing their position.

      And after reading TFA, the question should be raised.

      It says the school must use Windows, but it doesn't say ONLY Windows.

      I think that a school with Window's workstations in conjunction with a Linux and Apple lab would be a Good Thing.

      Despite what the Zealots say, this day and age if you know a little bit about everything you can go farther than the super specialist.

      --
      Remember folks, slashdot doesn't have a -1 "disagree" moderation!
    28. Re:Subsidy not aid by RightSaidFred99 · · Score: 1

      Amusing. You think Microsoft it's 1992 and MS is doing exclusivity deals. They clearly aren't, and they're not prohibiting schools from doing anything. But if schools don't use MS (at all), it's kind of pointless to go in and train them...on MS products.

    29. Re:Subsidy not aid by Colin+Smith · · Score: 1

      IMHO *no* company should be able to influence the direction of general education by handing over wonga. What planet are you living on? Why do you think the education system is the way it is? It's training future employees. If it were educating citizens it would be rather different.
      --
      Deleted
    30. Re:Subsidy not aid by FireFury03 · · Score: 1

      What planet are you living on? Why do you think the education system is the way it is? It's training future employees.

      The education system is there to provide various levels of general education with increasing specialisation as the student progresses (e.g. school -> college -> university). At the school level the education should be quite general and is about teaching people a broad range of skills and general so that they can go into *any* job and have a better understanding of the world in general. Whether that job be software developer, mathematician, plumber, chef, whatever.

      School maths lessons don't teach kids how to use a specific brand of calculator - they teach the principles needed to use any. Cooking lessons don't teach using a specific brand of oven - they teach the general principles. Why should computing lessons be any different? You don't need to know how to use Microsoft Word, you need to know the general principles of how to use a word processor, which can be applied to *any* word processor (even the next version of MS Word, which you can be sure is going to be nothing like the current one).

      If people want to have more specific training, they are welcome to it - they can opt to do an extra course in their own time. The limited class time available should be used for teaching general analytical skills allowing people to adapt to all the software rather than learning a specific brand of software by rote. However, if people need specific training in how to use MS software rather than just general training in how to use *any* software that does the same job, I have to question the usability of MS software.

    31. Re:Subsidy not aid by JamesTRexx · · Score: 1

      maybe a few hundred bucks

      The cake-eh, cash is a lie!

      --
      home
    32. Re:Subsidy not aid by cHiphead · · Score: 1

      Not at all, you could rtfa instead of shooting from the hip. We're not talking OEM deals here, we are talking end user licensing requirements, which is a form of exclusivity.

      FROM TFA "The company's educational funding comes with a hitch: "Of course, that includes the fact they [the schools] use Windows," Ayala said."

      Btw, it was exclusivity deals from the 90s era that made MS a monopoly, once MS hit monopoly status, they are at a higher standard for fair trade and ethics.

      Cheers.

      --

      This is my sig. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    33. Re:Subsidy not aid by RightSaidFred99 · · Score: 1
      What seems to be missing from that sentence, and what would validate your point were it included is this:

      "Of course, that includes the fact they [the schools] use only Windows,"

      It's not in the sentence. So in fact, it's only logical to reason that MS wouldn't teach e.g. a Linux-only school on MS products, that would be rather pointless, no?

    34. Re:Subsidy not aid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. Schools can't become a black hole for $$$. They should be doing more with what they have first. They have massive facilities, activity centers, workout rooms, etc. During the summers and non school hours, they should be renting that space out to private businesses as meeting and conference centers. I know that my own school sat empty all summer, consuming resources and wasting the nice workout and performance facilities that the tax dollars pay for. If the performance facilities were made available as meeting or conference space, that money could go back into the school instead of continuous, seemingly endless millage hikes as our kids fall further and further behind. Our school systems are inefficient and need to be fixed before we pump more money into them.

  3. Saw This on a Billboard This Weekend by eldavojohn · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I saw something similar to this this weekend as I was riding a bus to NYC. A billboard in Delaware or some other state said "FREE $50 When You Join!" referring to a casino membership. But in very fine print (hilariously fine for the size of the billboard) it said, "Money must be spent inside the casino within a half hour of joining." I remember thinking to myself, that sure is free.

    How free is something when you're told what to spend it on? How free is money when it goes into a fund that invests in the United States companies and stock markets and you can't control that fund?

    My answer would be 'not very' but, you know, when you see these 'donations' from the rich like Bill Gates, that seems to be the case every single time. I'm glad they're getting something, I'm upset about the strings attached. Better than nothing, yes. But sounding more and more like a fishy tax loophole or legacy purchase (he'll go down in history as a philanthropist no doubt) every day.

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:Saw This on a Billboard This Weekend by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I always take these baits and always come out of the casino with the free money - just split the money in halves and bet on binery events with equal odds.

      There, classic money laundering technique put into legal use.

    2. Re:Saw This on a Billboard This Weekend by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      just split the money in halves and bet on binery events with equal odds. There are no binary events with equal odds at a casino. Are you going to tell me that betting even/odd or red/black on a roulette wheel is equal odds? Because it's not, don't forget the two greens (0 & 00).
    3. Re:Saw This on a Billboard This Weekend by Moonpie+Madness · · Score: 1

      You're dead wrong about one thing: Bill Gates has generously donated billions to great causes in ways that do not benefit Microsoft products. We can all say that this is no big deal for a billionaire, but the man's done some good no matter how you slice it.

      Yes, I know it's lame that MS "helps" schools by giving them money for Windows. That's just marketing in disguise and probably hurts schools. After all, if you can use Ubuntu competently, you are probably not going to have any problems with Windows. The real educational software is generally open source, since you can, ya know, see it working.

    4. Re:Saw This on a Billboard This Weekend by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bill Gates has generously donated billions to great causes in ways that do not benefit Microsoft products. Open your fucking eyes, they put that money into hedge funds that slowly leak money to needy countries. It's more a business than anything. Why don't they just give them all the fucking money? Oh, that's right, because it needs to stay in America and make money. Makes me sick to think how many people misunderstand a 'donation' like that.
    5. Re:Saw This on a Billboard This Weekend by muuh-gnu · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      > but the man's done some good no matter how you slice it

      He had to loot his customers first, ruin some competing companies, break the law, and so on. Its easy to give away money and act as generous philantrophist when you did not really "earn" it but kinda extorted it from somebody. Its blood money. Gates is not a philantrophist, he just made enough money to buy himself any image he'd like to have.

  4. Free software is not money by houstonbofh · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It looks like they are giving free software and support valued at the overinflated prices Microsoft gets for there product. Using this metric, Ubuntu is also donating $235 million to schools, students, businesses and people. (Support via Ubuntu Forums)

    1. Re:Free software is not money by smitty97 · · Score: 1

      Hey, that's a great idea. I'll donate my time by setting up each PC for them. I normally charge $10,000,000 each for this service, but I am thinking of the children here and will do it free!! After about a classroom full of PCs I'll have surpassed Microsoft's donation.

      --
      mod me funny
    2. Re:Free software is not money by Technician · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It looks like they are giving free software and support

      What's very funny is Microsoft had a 10 question quiz in an ad here on slashdot. The quiz was to "test your knowledge of software licensing". For grins, I took the test. It will not let you go got the next question (training maze) until you got the current question correct. If they just scored it, I would have done poorly as I chose what a consumer friendly answer should be. Taking the quiz fully convinced me that with GNU style licenses out there, the MS license will lose.

      For example, you have a computer with an OEM Windows install. It dies. Can you reinstall the software on another computer? The answer is no. The license is only for the dead computer and is not transferable. Just how does that stack up against my other software which includes the permission to install it on any and all computers I own. Getting me to buy their software is going to be tough. With Open Office, everyone has the same version. With MS Office, I have a machine with Office 97. The daughter has the Office 2003, and the wife's new Vista laptop has the new copy provided for the cost of the media through my employer. It expires when I lose my job or retire. Compare licenses again. One copy on one machine or a site license for all the machines in my house.. Easy choice.. We all have a copy of the up to date Open Office. It supports ODF out of the box, not as a plug-in.

      http://www.tech-recipes.com/rx/2075/word_2007_open_save_odf_documents

      Schools who have to deal with donated machines and per seat licenses have the BSA to fear. Schools who use OSS software do not have this legal liability. MS will either have to blanket change their license or continue to find their market erode.

      http://www.linux.com/feed/37845 (Oregon school faces BSA Audit)

      Business also has to deal with the sticky terms of the MS license

      http://www.news.com/2008-1082_3-5065859.html (Ernie Ball's BSA audit, cost $65,000, plus $35,000 in legal fees)

      Those badly hurt and afraid will need a lot more than just a sweet deal to switch back.

      --
      The truth shall set you free!
  5. $235m? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

    I can afford that! It's less than a quarter!

    (Hey editors, learn your SI: m means milli (1/1000). M means mega (1000000). SI is case-sensitive, just like Unix)
    Or maybe I'm just being pedantic. Wouldn't be anything new for this website, though.

    1. Re:$235m? by Reality+Master+201 · · Score: 2

      Yes, however, the "m" after the dollar figure isn't an SI measurement.

      You're being pedantic, but you also don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Which is nothing new for this website.

  6. Links that work by ddrichardson · · Score: 1

    Here's the story, Yahoo!

    --
    A thistle is a fat salad for an ass's mouth...
  7. Maybe it's not cash? by iONiUM · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Maybe they're giving out, oh I dunno, licenses for Windows and free copies that amount to that much money? What the fuck do you expect them to do, buy the equivalent value of Macs and give that instead?

    1. Re:Maybe it's not cash? by stormguard2099 · · Score: 1

      I expect them to give out that much money in hardware, training and then throw in all of their software for free.

      --
      http://greenobyl.com/ please.... think of the children!!
    2. Re:Maybe it's not cash? by Schmool · · Score: 0

      That for one would at least make it seem like they're not just doing it out of self-interest. This way it just looks bad, like a cheap method of conversion, in the style of Gilette razor blades.

    3. Re:Maybe it's not cash? by plague3106 · · Score: 1

      Sounds like a homeless guy demanding new clothes and a place to sleep in addition to the free meal.

    4. Re:Maybe it's not cash? by TheMeuge · · Score: 1

      This isn't a free meal for a homeless guy. This is akin to Madonna tossing the homeless guy a free copy of her latest CD.

      It costs microsoft nothing, they get a tax writeoff, and it's either useless to the target demographic, or will perpetuate microsoft's monopoly and later charge them their left nut.

    5. Re:Maybe it's not cash? by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 1

      Show me where a FLOSS company has done similar.

      --
      There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
    6. Re:Maybe it's not cash? by monk2b · · Score: 1

      I would agree with you if you simply gave a homeless guy a free meal, but it sounds to me like the homeless guy was then ask what he thought. When you ask someone what would they do, then you should expect an answer, that is how dialog works.

    7. Re:Maybe it's not cash? by stormguard2099 · · Score: 1

      licenses for Windows and free copies that amount to that much money? What the fuck do you expect them to do As previously stated, it costs nothing to give out licenses. What is more significant is that if people have nothing to run the software it doesn't matter how many licenses you give them.

      This isn't a free meal for a homeless guy. This is akin to Madonna tossing the homeless guy a free copy of her latest CD. No, it's even worse, this is more like Madonna telling a homeless person that he has legal permission to download her new album even though he has no way to even utilize it (not that I think many people do)
      --
      http://greenobyl.com/ please.... think of the children!!
    8. Re:Maybe it's not cash? by Man+Eating+Duck · · Score: 4, Insightful

      More like giving the homeless guy drugs when he needs food, knowing that he'll come back to you for the next hit. They're "developing markets to their future business."

      --
      Are you a grammar Nazi? I'm trying to improve my English; please correct my errors! :)
    9. Re:Maybe it's not cash? by plague3106 · · Score: 1

      This isn't a free meal for a homeless guy. This is akin to Madonna tossing the homeless guy a free copy of her latest CD.

      So schools don't need OSes for their computers? Huh.. pretty neat.

      It costs microsoft nothing, they get a tax writeoff

      The same can be said for free support given by RedHat to a school, should they choose to do so. Does that invalidate the gesture? Also, last I checked, sending someone to teach does in fact cost something.

      it's either useless to the target demographic

      You may not like Windows or Office, but that does not make them useless. Or are you claiming they're giving the licenses to schools with no computers?

      will perpetuate microsoft's monopoly

      Its a business move, no one will argue that. They ARE still allowed to try and make money you know. No one is forcing schools to accept the offer, they aren't breaking any laws.

      Being a monopoly is not evil unto itself, its how they use it. They aren't doing anything dirty or underhanded here, and certainly any Linux company could do the same. They're allowed to try to keep their position as long as doing so isn't abusing their monopoly status.

      later charge them their left nut.

      You can see the future now? At any rate, no one involved will be forced to continue using MS software. There's no legal way to do so, and I haven't heard of any stipulation in the deal that says the recipient must buy an upgrade later.

    10. Re:Maybe it's not cash? by BeanThere · · Score: 1

      Yes, but to be fair, the homeless guy really can just say no. Likewise for the schools. They won't have lost anything they never had before; even under highly distorted negotiating conditions (i.e. one side having much more bargaining power and control than the other) it remains the case that all trade is mutually beneficial. (Just for the record, I can't stand Microsoft or the unethical and lying way they do business; I wish the market was better at choosing the best product.) 'We welcome competition', what a load of crap.

  8. Of course they only pay for windows training by jorghis · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Why is it a surprise they would only fund free training for their own software? I mean isnt that kind of a duh thing? Are linux companies sinister too now because they dont pay for free windows training for people who dont buy linux?

    1. Re:Of course they only pay for windows training by osgeek · · Score: 1

      Careful, dude, this is Slashdot. Special pleading for open source software is allowed and even encouraged.

      I mean, what non-zealot could even half take the premise of this article/editorial seriously?

    2. Re:Of course they only pay for windows training by unlametheweak · · Score: 1

      Why is it a surprise they would only fund free training for their own software? I mean isn't that kind of a duh thing? Are Linux companies sinister too now because they don't pay for free windows training for people who don't buy Linux? It's no surprise. The disappointment is the requirements.

      From TFA:

      "Of course, that includes the fact they [the schools] use Windows," Ayala said.' If you don't use Windows you don't get the cash." It doesn't matter what the intentions are.

      That makes so much sense to me. It wouldn't be logical for Microsoft or any company to donate money for their competition (i.e. donate money for computers to run competing software). I would not suspect anything else from a for-profit company. I'm sure Microsoft's shareholders would agree. Nothing new in this news.
    3. Re:Of course they only pay for windows training by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the premise is correct - Microsoft can get a tax deduction for growing their business. It is the same thing the Bushes did -- got a big tax break by getting schools to buy software by one of the Bush kids. It is no more sleazy for Microsoft to do it than for the Bushes to do it, and it is very typical tax sleaze -- all the rich people do these kind of dirty tricks.

    4. Re:Of course they only pay for windows training by kebes · · Score: 1, Insightful

      MS can go ahead and fund Windows training... but they should call it 'funding Windows training' or 'advertising' or 'market capture' (depending how honest they want to be). Calling it 'foreign aid' is a stretch, and part of the problem.

      There is also the fact that MS is, apparently, only offering free training to schools that agree to be purely Windows institutions. If a Linux outfit offered free support, but only on condition of NOT using any non-Linux software, you can be sure that the community would cry foul. Providing Windows-only support is fine. Providing support only to purely Windows institutes? Nasty.

      Lastly, there is the usual monopoly issue. Things that might be fair game for most companies can quickly become unfair (even illegal) for monopolies. This appears to be another case of MS leveraging their existing dominance (and corresponding cash) to create a monopoly in a new market. Generally, allowing a monopoly to extend itself like this, at the expense of competitors, is a bad thing.

    5. Re:Of course they only pay for windows training by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 1

      And Novel, Redhat, etc can get a tax deduction for growing their business too. All they have to do is donate support licenses and training for their product.

      --
      There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
    6. Re:Of course they only pay for windows training by jorghis · · Score: 1

      Providing support only to purely Windows institutes? Nasty Where did it say this in TFA? You and several others seem to be assuming that this is the case. TFA says only that they provide free training to schools that use windows. It says nothing about a requirement that the schools use no non-MS software. It seems like everyone is assuming something that isnt true.
    7. Re:Of course they only pay for windows training by matt4077 · · Score: 1

      Please don't confuse this with the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. I dislike MS like everyone else, but his personal foundation seems to be quite seperated from Microsoft. It's focus is more on health than IT anyway.

    8. Re:Of course they only pay for windows training by glitch23 · · Score: 0

      Why is it a surprise they would only fund free training for their own software? I mean isnt that kind of a duh thing? Are linux companies sinister too now because they dont pay for free windows training for people who dont buy linux?

      Whatever happened to just making a good faith donation to schools because you have money to burn and they don't? If you are comfortable in your market then it shouldn't hurt any to give schools money and let them spend it however they want. If they like MS products they will buy them which is a win-win (tax deduction and more revenue) otherwise it is just a tax deduction if the school buys Apple products instead. Or maybe they will use the money for something else unrelated to technology and install Linux on everything because MS products are expensive and don't follow standards and they want their students to be well-rounded. Unfortunately MS is saying "we'll give you this money....if you spend it buying our stuff. Oh and we'll throw in free training too." which basically means they get their money back as well as a tax deduction and more kids who only learn MS products all while looking good because they "donated" (win-win-win-win).

      --
      this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom. -- Lincoln, Gettysburg Address
  9. Actually... by Mongoose+Disciple · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Isn't this pretty similar to what Apple was doing with schools back in the 80's?

    1. Re:Actually... by peragrin · · Score: 1

      If true then MSFT is even copying the one application at a time by using windows starter edition.

      i say if as I don't know apple's eduction history.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    2. Re:Actually... by blueZhift · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Actually, this is similar to what Apple did to get the strong foothold they once had in the education market. I don't know what the balance is these days, but it is a good move by Microsoft to get better established in an important market. I'm not a huge Microsoft fan, but there isn't anything evil about this, other than the usual profit motive which may or may not be evil depending on who you talk to. In my book, if it helps increase computer literacy then it's a good thing, especially if it increases that of the teachers!

    3. Re:Actually... by johannesg · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      What is it with americans (sorry, I don't see anyone else doing it) that you always feel the need to point out that [some unrelated entity] has done the same in the past, or might do the same in the future if it had the chance? Especially considering that it is invariably a wildly inappropriate comparison?

      Don't you find it incredibly tiring to hear this tireless propaganda? Does anyone honestly believe that Apple back then can be compared to Microsoft now? Or that the lies perpetrated by Bush, that led to the invasion of two countries and hundreds of thousands killed, are comparable to those of Clinton about getting a blowjob? Does anyone think it is smart or witty to make such comparisons?

      The mind boggles...

    4. Re:Actually... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      It's similar but different. Apple sold hardwares at a steep discount to schools, but they don't offer money to school to be used only to buy Apple hardwares. Sometimes they donated hardwares too. The distinction is important since the school aren't under any obligation to force Apple's platform on students. OTOH, schools are obligated to force MS solutions on students. Of course, you may argue that the schools are not under obligation to receive the cash, but do you know what school refuses cash? Once a monetary donation is given, schools are free to appropriately use the fund in any way they see fit as long as it doesn't violate the general guideline of the donation. Dictating a specific solution as a condition of a donation is inappropriate. It violates the principle of academic freedom.

      IMHO, these platform wars has no place at schools. Students who work for a computer degree should understand computer basics and a little bit of each major platform. Then they can specialize in a platform they are interested in. It's still called computer science and computer engineering, isn't it? Not Windows science and Windows engineering. If students aren't interested in the basics and the other platforms, they can just go to a vocational school specializing in Windows softwares. There is no need to waste time with other stuff.

    5. Re:Actually... by Rob+Y. · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ...unless they're taking huge tax deductions on what is essentially money spent to buy marketshare.

      --
      Posted from my Android phone. Oh, I can change this? There, that's better...
    6. Re:Actually... by boristdog · · Score: 1

      My thoughts exactly. Apple has done this since the 80's with their student pricing and free computer labs.

    7. Re:Actually... by Mongoose+Disciple · · Score: 1

      In case you hadn't noticed, the post I was responding to was making a joke that Microsoft gets all their best ideas from their competitors. I find it hard to justify your description of my response that, hey, didn't Apple do something similar to this a while back as wildly inappropriate.

      For the record, I don't see Microsoft pushing Windows in schools as evil, and I didn't see Apple pushing IIe's in schools back in the day as evil either. Both companies were making smart moves for the future of their business, and in both cases, probably the kids in those schools ultimately benefited from it.

    8. Re:Actually... by Mongoose+Disciple · · Score: 2, Insightful

      One thing that isn't clear in the article and seems important is whether schools need to agree to exclusively use Windows to receive the cash.

      If it's the case that a school can take this money to provide some Windows machines and still provide other OS machines normally at their expense, I can't see how this would be anything but good for the students. If it's an exclusive deal, I'd agree with you that that really isn't good for the students, unless the school is so poor that this is the only way they're going to get a decent number of computers.

    9. Re:Actually... by plopez · · Score: 4, Informative

      AFAIK, Apple gave discounts to educational institutions, but never mandated that they be exclusively an Apple network.

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    10. Re:Actually... by Intron · · Score: 3, Funny

      I'm pretty sure that Europeans did these kinds of comparisons first.

      --
      Intron: the portion of DNA which expresses nothing useful.
    11. Re:Actually... by johannesg · · Score: 1

      In case you hadn't noticed, we don't do threads anymore: slashdot now shuffles all messages into utter randomness. So your post was the top post for me, and without any quotation or other meaningful context it is just another piece of spiteful Microsoft propaganda. The kind that makes me sick, because it just sounds so incredibly righteous, and yet we all know it is so incredibly fake. So maybe you made a fantastic joke (although I doubt it) but you still come across as a Microsoft shill.

      And I stand by my criticism that your "joke" is typically american: righteous, fake, and not at all funny. Go ahead, mod me down some more - I've scheduled some time in my agenda somewhere in 2073 to care...

    12. Re:Actually... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Similar, but different in that Apple was never a criminal monopoly.

    13. Re:Actually... by Mongoose+Disciple · · Score: 1

      In case you hadn't noticed, we don't do threads anymore: slashdot now shuffles all messages into utter randomness. So your post was the top post for me, and without any quotation or other meaningful context it is just another piece of spiteful Microsoft propaganda. The kind that makes me sick, because it just sounds so incredibly righteous, and yet we all know it is so incredibly fake. So maybe you made a fantastic joke (although I doubt it) but you still come across as a Microsoft shill.

      Threads fine for me. Check your settings.

      And I stand by my criticism that your "joke" is typically american: righteous, fake, and not at all funny. Go ahead, mod me down some more - I've scheduled some time in my agenda somewhere in 2073 to care...

      My question wasn't a joke. It's just a question. My being American isn't the cause of your reading comprehension problems.

    14. Re:Actually... by GaryPatterson · · Score: 1

      No, I can't see that.

      Apple gave discounts (you could buy whatever you like, but if you buy an Apple, you'll get a good discount).

      Microsoft is tying aid money to use of their product (you can buy whatever you like, but if you don't put Windows on it, you won't get the aid money).

      We're probably looking at this the wrong way. Microsoft is investing money in educating users in its products. It's not really giving aid or charity, but doing what it can to ensure future uptake of its products.

      There's nothing inherently wrong with that, but it's not aid money, just another investment.

    15. Re:Actually... by ibbey · · Score: 1

      So what is it about his post that made you think he was American? Seems a bit of completely unwarranted anti-Americanism to me. He made a perfectly reasonable (if inaccurate) observation, given the topic at hand.

      I'm American. I have no problem with you criticizing America for our policies, our behavior, whatever (I'll frequently be right there with you). But don't randomly assume that just because you disagree with someone they they must be an American. There are plenty of idiots here, but you have your fair share of them, too. (Not that I'm calling you an idiot, Mongoose)

    16. Re:Actually... by rtb61 · · Score: 1
      Of course there is a distinct and criminal difference between selling at a discount and selling bellow cost. Sell at a discount that's fine, sell below cost and that's anti-competitive and punishable by law.

      If you are going to donate, then donate, but don't donate money only on the conditions they give the money straight back to you, that sounds like some sort of weird charity tax fraud and slimy bullshit to boot.

      Besides all M$ is doing is pushing additional costs onto business forcing them to retrain staff to use open source software. It is about time approximately 99.9999% of business stood up to this kind of activity and demanded that schools teach students with more cost effective software.

      Why schools should favour approximately 0.0001% of companies and allow one company to define what will be used my hundreds of thousands of other companies is beyond me.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    17. Re:Actually... by gr8scot · · Score: 1

      He made a perfectly reasonable (if inaccurate) observation An *observation* cannot be inaccurate. If a scientist records the wrong number, it was the measurement or the recording that is inaccurate, not the observation. If a person says something inaccurate, what they have said is not an observation. In this case, the comparison was part of an argument, which amounts to a claim; the equation of Microsoft to Apple (past). Of course, I also thought the anti-Americanism was unwarranted, but somebody else already answered that, very humorously.

      But don't randomly assume that just because you disagree with someone they they must be an American. There are plenty of idiots here, but you have your fair share of them, too. (Not that I'm calling you an idiot, Mongoose) Americans misspell "colour" and a lot of other words. Mongoose wouldn't need to "randomly assume" anything to correctly identify Americans, 9 times out of 10, or more.
      --
      All 19 hijackers were known terrorists 09-10-2001. Lack of FBI intelligence does not justify warrantless wiretaps..
    18. Re:Actually... by ibbey · · Score: 1

      gr8scot: "An *observation* cannot be inaccurate."

      For someone so well versed in English that they can recognize someone's nationality by their grammar, you sure don't have a very good grasp of the language. There's more than one definition to the word "observation". For the record, according to Merriam-Webster:

      Observation
      Pronunciation:
              \äb-sr-v-shn, -zr-\
      Function:
              noun

      1 a: an act or instance of observing a custom, rule, or law
      b: observance
      2 a: an act of recognizing and noting a fact or occurrence often involving measurement with instruments
      b: a record or description so obtained
      3: a judgment on or inference from what one has observed; broadly : remark statement

      Note definition three. I could have said "he made a remark", but I chose it's synonym "observation" instead.

      gr8scot: "Americans misspell "colour" and a lot of other words."

      Fair point (though wrong. We don't "misspell" color, we just spell it differently. Once again, check the dictionary.). So what word or other phrase in the relevant post (the complete text: subject: "Actually..." Body: "Isn't this pretty similar to what Apple was doing with schools back in the 80's?") makes you 90% certain that Mongoose is an American?

      As I said, I have absolutely no problem with people criticizing America, just do it honestly. There's plenty about us to criticize, why make shit up?

      gr8scot: "Mongoose wouldn't need to "randomly assume" anything"

      You didn't even get the recipient of the reply right. I wasn't replying to Mongoose, I was (sort of) defending him. Three points in your reply, and everyone of them is outright wrong. That might be a record even for Slashdot! Ok, probably not, but it's stil pretty bad.
    19. Re:Actually... by gr8scot · · Score: 1

      gr8scot: "Mongoose wouldn't need to "randomly assume" anything" You didn't even get the recipient of the reply right. I wasn't replying to Mongoose, I was (sort of) defending him. Three points in your reply, and everyone of them is outright wrong. That might be a record even for Slashdot! Ok, probably not, but it's stil pretty bad. Bloody hell, you're right! I meant johannesg wouldn't need to randomly assume anything, not Mongoose ["Disciple", which I also forgot].
      To the rest of your correct points, my only excuse is that I gave too much latitude to johannesg for these very salient points:

      Does anyone honestly believe that Apple back then can be compared to Microsoft now? Or that the lies perpetrated by Bush, that led to the invasion of two countries and hundreds of thousands killed, are comparable to those of Clinton about getting a blowjob? Does anyone think it is smart or witty to make such comparisons? Half-assed defense of my half-assed previous argument, which you pretty well demolished, btw:

      Fair point (though wrong. We don't "misspell" color, we just spell it differently. Fine, then I didn't "misuse" observation, I just used it differently.
      --
      All 19 hijackers were known terrorists 09-10-2001. Lack of FBI intelligence does not justify warrantless wiretaps..
    20. Re:Actually... by ibbey · · Score: 1

      Me: Fair point (though wrong. We don't "misspell" color, we just spell it differently.)
      You: Fine, then I didn't "misuse" observation, I just used it differently.


      Umm... no. British English and American English spell some words differently. Neither in "wrong" just different. I'm sure if you look up the word "color" in a decent British dictionary, it will say effectively the same thing. It's possible that in British English, "observation" isn't a synonym for "remark", but since I did admit that I was American, my usage was correct.

      (Aside: Even in the second definition, observations can still be wrong. I observed David Copperfield walk through the great wall of China several years ago. That doesn't mean that it really happened. Sorry, I don't mean to keep picking at nits, I just can't help myself sometimes.)

      That said, I don't disagree with you, or with most of johannesg second paragraph (though how he made the jump from the first sentence to the rest is a bit of a mystery). But there's a difference between criticizing America and bashing it, and johannesg catapulted clear across the line. I've never really considered myself a "patriot", but I used to feel that in spite of it's flaws I was fortunate to live in one of the greatest countries in the world (and I don't mean great as in might). Since Bush has taken office, he has made me almost ashamed to admit where I'm from. That doesn't mean that I'm willing to sit idly by while some idiot starts calling people "Americans" as if it were an insult, merely because he doesn't agree with the point that he was making.

      I still believe that we are a great nation at heart, but unfortunately we've been hijacked by a relative few who have the money and lack of morals to do whatever it takes to further their agenda. I'm hopeful that in November, we'll be able to begin the long, slow road to recovering respect in the world.

      Sorr for the rant, I just needed to vent a bit...
    21. Re:Actually... by ibbey · · Score: 1

      Just to be clear, that last reply was in no way intended to continue any arguments. You conceded your error, and I'm completely satisfied with that. It's late (1:30 AM) & I'm tired, so if it came across wrong at all, please forgive me!

    22. Re:Actually... by gr8scot · · Score: 1

      Since Bush has taken office, he has made me almost ashamed to admit where I'm from. Good, unless you're from Texas. Then, why only "almost" ashamed?

      That doesn't mean that I'm willing to sit idly by while some idiot starts calling people "Americans" as if it were an insult, merely because he doesn't agree with the point that he was making. Bah! Ask Britney Spears about what fun it is to be #1. In an international forum, "representing" the United States is about the same thing as being Britney Spears in a camera store. Nothing to do about it but get used to it.

      Sorry, I don't mean to keep picking at nits, I just can't help myself sometimes. No prob. Just let me know if you find a patch or gum for that.

      But there's a difference between criticizing America and bashing it, and johannesg catapulted clear across the line. I've never really considered myself a "patriot", but I used to feel that in spite of it's flaws I was fortunate to live in one of the greatest countries in the world. Ha-ha! What did you say about picking at nits?

      That doesn't mean that I'm willing to sit idly by while some idiot starts calling people "Americans" as if it were an insult, merely because he doesn't agree with the point that he was making. What if smart people start considering "Americans" an insult? We already import most of our cars & research scientists. WTF is so smart about either?
      --
      All 19 hijackers were known terrorists 09-10-2001. Lack of FBI intelligence does not justify warrantless wiretaps..
    23. Re:Actually... by gr8scot · · Score: 1

      Just to be clear, that last reply was in no way intended to continue any arguments. You conceded your error, Not normal; I think somebody put something in my drink.

      ...and I'm completely satisfied with that. A guy always likes to hear that, even when it doesn't mean that.

      It's late (1:30 AM) That was early, not late. I am such a jerk!

      ... & I'm tired, so if it came across wrong at all, please forgive me! Not a problem. I thought I had a good point, but if so I totally hosed it. As you correctly pointed out, at the very least my phrasing was not good enough to make the point I wanted to make, and now it's time for me to drop it. See ya round.
      --
      All 19 hijackers were known terrorists 09-10-2001. Lack of FBI intelligence does not justify warrantless wiretaps..
  10. And this is a shock why? by LWATCDR · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why wouldn't Microsoft offer support to Schools that teach Windows and not offer support to schools that do not?
    This isn't some foundation it is a company. Sorry but this isn't shocking or news. Do you think Novell or Redhat would donate money to schools that teach Windows?

    --
    See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    1. Re:And this is a shock why? by Entropius · · Score: 1

      The trouble is, Microsoft does "aid" projects like this, and then wants to be treated as though they've just committed some great act of charity.

      They can't have it both ways.

    2. Re:And this is a shock why? by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      I don't think a convicted monopolist should be allowed to do this at all, and should have some substantial fraction of its net worth seized as punishment.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    3. Re:And this is a shock why? by plague3106 · · Score: 1

      All acts of charity are acts of selfishness. Would you donate time / money to any cause if it caused you some kind of pain or made you feel bad?

    4. Re:And this is a shock why? by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      Well that is for the courts to decide.
      The end result is that Microsoft wouldn't donate any money for IT projects and just donate the software. That couldn't be considered anti-trust since it isn't undercutting the cost of FOSS.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    5. Re:And this is a shock why? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Do you think Novell or Redhat would donate money to schools that teach Windows?
      Yes, I think they might. Lots of corporations each year give to charities with no strings attached. This is perfectly normal. Of course, there are some that do put restrictions on their donations but it usually looks bad.

      This Microsoft "donation" is not really charitable if they're doing it for marketting reasons and have attached restrictions on the donations. Instead they should call it a "$235.5 million marketting effort at schools" and be honest about it.
    6. Re:And this is a shock why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not about charity... Charity is a disguise for a $235m world wide advertisement.

  11. Isn't this like.. by Paranatural · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Isn't this sorta like those missionaries who will feed the starving if they convert?

    1. Re:Isn't this like.. by Yetihehe · · Score: 1

      It's actually the same. You must just accept Bill Gates as your father in the high router.

      --
      Extreme Programming - Redundant Array of Inexpensive Developers
    2. Re:Isn't this like.. by DarkSarin · · Score: 1

      Then there are the missionaries who will feed the hungry even if they won't convert. Or who feed the hungry and don't ask about your faith at all.

      Which is how it should be.

      Here's how all churches should do service (and this is how I do service). See a need for help. Donate time, energy, money, food, talent, whatever is necessary. Leave. That's it. If people ask questions, you simply state, "I believe that this is what Christ (or whatever rolemodel you prefer) would do/have me do, so I'm doing it. What else can I do to help?" If they ask more about where they can learn about your church, you say, "Well, once we have this problem fixed, our services are at this time. We'd love for you to visit. Right now, let's get this mess taken care of."

      That's how charity should be done. Oh, and you don't advertise. Which is why some churches give millions in aid each year, but almost no one knows about it. Why? Because they don't advertise. Frankly, what MS is doing is worthless except that there may be some slight benefit to the recipient, but even that is hard to tell. I would rather see MS join up with a bevy of other IT companies and form an IT aid charity that was tech-neutral. This would be more appropriate, and more helpful.

      --
      "We don't know what we are doing, but we are doing it very carefully,..." Wherry, R.J. Personnel Psychology (1995)
    3. Re:Isn't this like.. by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      Isn't this sorta like those missionaries who will feed the starving if they convert?

      No. This is like a company that sells things offering a deal to other businesses/organizations (colleges) as part of their overall approach to growing their business. Just like the people who are competing to supply food products/services to the campus dining facilities, or those that want to sell other products. People who are spending their money (or yours) to attend college aren't "starving." If they have any motivation and can read, they can step right into all sorts of open source options, too. Do you really think so little of a college student that if they get some free training on one company's product that they won't be able to personally expand their brains enough to also try another? If you think so little of the students, why do you care what software they use? You obviously don't consider them to be thinking people, so don't sweat it.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
  12. In other news... by AltGrendel · · Score: 1
    Water is still wet.

    It gets dark at night.

    --
    The simple truth is that interstellar distances will not fit into the human imagination

    - Douglas Adams

  13. fancy that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    once again microsoft is scorned by slashdotters for the same reasons that apple is praised.

    1. Re:fancy that by Schmool · · Score: 0

      It might have to do with the fact that if you give a child a Mac or Linux box, it's empowering, while if you force them to use Windows, it's borderline child abuse.

    2. Re:fancy that by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 0, Troll

      Even if you assume that these are the same Slashdotters, Microsoft is a monopoly. Apple is not.

      Monopolies have to play by different rules.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    3. Re:fancy that by Technician · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Good point. I just looked to see if Apple is a BSA member.

      Unfortunately according to Wikipedia, they are..

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Software_Alliance Scroll down to the members list.. Yuck!

      " * Adobe Systems
              * Apple Inc.
              * Autodesk
              * Avid Technology
              * Bentley Systems
              * Borland
              * CA, Inc.
              * Cadence Design Systems
              * Cisco Systems
              * CNC Software/Mastercam
              * Dell
              * EMC Corporation
              * Entrust
              * Hewlett-Packard
              * IBM
              * Intel Corporation
              * McAfee
              * Microsoft
              * Monotype Imaging
              * Network Associates
              * Oracle Corporation
              * PTC
              * RSA Security
              * SAP
              * SolidWorks
              * Sybase
              * Symantec
              * Synopsys
              * The Mathworks
              * UGS PLM Solutions Inc.

      --
      The truth shall set you free!
    4. Re:fancy that by GaryPatterson · · Score: 1

      once again microsoft is scorned by slashdotters for the same reasons that apple is praised.

      No, Apple aren't doing anything like this. Microsoft is being scorned for a new reason, wholly different to the ones people praise Apple for!

      Unfairly as well, I'd add, but hey, what do I know? I'm not one of those brave ACs!

  14. You were expecting them to buy Macs? by hawks5999 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Can I mod an article -1 Troll?

  15. What for? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Use of Windows is declining amongst the computer literate. Is the next step in the MSFT strategy to begin subsidizing clay for teaching cuneiform?

    I can smell the "innovation" already, pfft!

  16. Open Source forces... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ...Microsoft to pay for future customers.

    Which means they would have to increase prices for their software, which makes more people decide to use the free open source alternatives instead.

    I just love it when a plan comes together. ;)

    muhahahahaha!!!

  17. I am willing to donate 6 trillion! by saterdaies · · Score: 4, Interesting

    In 10 grants contingent on recipients of said aid only use it to purchase special Educational Grant Editions of my Ubuntu clone at a cost of $600,000,000,000 a piece. That way, I'm donating a huge amount, but I don't actually have to donate a penny (unless I'm off by a decimal place there).

    On a more serious level, I could donate $1,000,000 to schools that could only be used to buy licenses of my slightly modified Ubuntu clone and never have to spend money - if they don't buy my licenses, they don't get the money; if they do buy my Ubuntu clone, I get the money back and maybe have to eat the cost of some CD-Rs.

    "Donating" money that can only be used to purchase an intangible good (and software, other than the physical media, is intangible) from yourself is like donating nothing - especially when you're donating to people who wouldn't buy your product if it weren't being given to them.

    1. Re:I am willing to donate 6 trillion! by arivanov · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You missed one point. You also write it off as a tax deductible. If you try to write off $600,000,000,000 as a tax deductible expect black helicopters and men with assault rifles as a responce to your tax return. If a company with a turnover bigger than some nation's GDP does this, it gets an applause in the press for its enormous charitable contribution. Which is a pity - it should get the same treatment (scaled for size - cannons instead of assault rifles).

      --
      Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
      http://www.sigsegv.cx/
    2. Re:I am willing to donate 6 trillion! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you, Sir. At least one that says what this really is about.

      Why isnt parent +5 already!? Goddamnit, you stupid jerks....

  18. Can't hate 'em... by Capt+James+McCarthy · · Score: 1

    What's going to really cook the noodle is how they came up with 'spending' 235Mil. Why not 250? How about 500? Did they calculate how many versions of Windows each potential customer will purchase in their life time and take inflation into account. Then figured that a 1 to 4 or 5 return value over 25 years isn't a bad investment after all.

    I don't care for M$ either (while typing this on a M$ platform, necessary evil..blah,blah,blah), but you have to give them credit for trying to continue growing their customer base. They are in the business of making money (read not top quality software) and that is what they are doing. The schools do benefit some. And potentially the local tax payer since the bill is not flipped by them.

    --
    There are no loopholes. It's either legal or it's not.
    1. Re:Can't hate 'em... by j79zlr · · Score: 1

      Easy, 1 million for each one of the patents they have that linux infringes upon.

      --
      I'm not not licking toads.
  19. HA by shamer · · Score: 1

    if you can't beat your competition, buy them out. if your user base drops, buy them too.

  20. Wrong! by goldspider · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Microsoft faces heated competition from companies supporting the open-source OS Linux and associated software in developing countries.

    Microsoft isn't confronting competition in these targeted regions, they're confronting rampant piracy of their OS. They figure it's better to get $3.00 per copy than nothing.

    --
    "Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
    1. Re:Wrong! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The NYT article on this referred to a Russian project that is purchasing one million of these $3 licenses. I wonder if some of those legit install CDs don't end up in a bazaar in Moscow instead of a poor school east of Ural...

    2. Re:Wrong! by what+about · · Score: 1

      This would be true with Windows XP, not vista

      Microsoft has two opposite target now

      • Squeeze as much cash from the West by having a secure ans strong antipiracy system
      • Keep the "new markets" seeded for windows by allowing them "cheap" (once upon a time pirated) copies of windows
      The solution...

      Is to "give away" windows copies, after all one dollar is the true cost fo Windows, all the rest is just profit (How do you think Microsoft manages to have such obscene cash reserve ???)

  21. Still using Windows? by jmcwork · · Score: 1

    What if they buy VMWare and run Linux with that?

  22. Why they give money with strings attached. by Name+Anonymous · · Score: 1

    How free is something when you're told what to spend it on? How free is money when it goes into a fund that invests in the United States companies and stock markets and you can't control that fund?

    My answer would be 'not very' but, you know, when you see these 'donations' from the rich like Bill Gates, that seems to be the case every single time. I'm glad they're getting something, I'm upset about the strings attached. Better than nothing, yes. But sounding more and more like a fishy tax loophole or legacy purchase (he'll go down in history as a philanthropist no doubt) every day.

    It's a way to screw with sales numbers. They give away money it looks good. They sold another 50,000 copies of windows it looks good. If they just gave away Windows, it only looks half as good since the sales numbers won't increase from the donation.
  23. How dumb do they think schools are? by CSMatt · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Why would any decent school system accept an offer for a severely crippled OS at a severely discounted price when the school could just as easily get a full-featured OS for free?

    If this is the best Microsoft can do to compete against free operating systems in the developing world, then they are throughly screwed. Even using an illegal full copy of XP would be a smarter decision than taking up this offer, despite the inherent liability involved.

    1. Re:How dumb do they think schools are? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As someone whose 22 year olds, I can say that from your comment it is obvious you haven't been to a school lately.

    2. Re:How dumb do they think schools are? by msuarezalvarez · · Score: 1

      Your spelling leads to the same conclusion, funnily enough.

    3. Re:How dumb do they think schools are? by Dragonslicer · · Score: 1

      As someone whose 22 year olds Whose 22-year-olds what? How many are there, and are they female?
    4. Re:How dumb do they think schools are? by CSMatt · · Score: 1

      Why is this modded "Troll"? I'm just making an argument that using XP Starter in favor of something like GNU/Linux or BSD doesn't make sense. Full XP? Maybe. But not XP Starter.

  24. "If you don't use Windows you don't get the cash." by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    "If you don't use Windows you don't get the cash."

    This is a great message to send to kids. Excellent lesson in early childhood corporate corruption.

  25. Re:Can't blame 'em for trying... by Schmool · · Score: 1

    "The schools do benefit some." How is that? It just means that they'll likely forego decent comparison of operating systems and their total cost of ownership. Remember, the Windows license is just the start, they'll also have to factor in the cost of managing the systems, troubleshooting, and eventually, the cost to upgrade all their Microsoft applications because of security issues and vulnerabilities. This stunt just delays the inevitable. "as a company we welcome choice" [Orlando Ayala] ...and that's why we give them the choice to use any OS as long as it's Windows.

  26. FUD... by ral315 · · Score: 1

    The writeup leaves much to be desired. Microsoft is giving free support for its own software -- certainly not a crime, and certainly something they'd be interested in doing (I somehow doubt they'd give support for Ubuntu and OpenOffice). This is no different than Norton offering free support for their product, but not offering it for AVG. No, it's not a humanitarian effort, it's them trying to lock in their monopoly -- something that most of us don't like, but something that's in their best interests, and isn't illegal by any means. I'm not a big fan of Microsoft, but it would be nice to have legitimate criticism of them.

  27. MS SIS: Student Innovation Suite? by MacarooMac · · Score: 1

    More like 'Student Inoculation Strategy': Prepare kids' immune systems as early as possible for a lifetime of MS bloatware; inoculate the young minds from all Windows & Office usability issues, grooming a whole new generation of narrow-minded corporate drones with a "that's what we're familiar with/ that's what we've always used/ everybody else uses it too, so.." ignorant, conformist and sceptical-of-change mentality.
    Or is it me who's gone all sceptical?

    --
    "He Who Dares Wins" ...or gets twenty-to-life for totaling their Bimmer on a poodle parade
  28. Actually... #2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Possibly - until you realise Apple didn't have an OS monopoly.

  29. Buying the hearts and minds of kiddies everywhere. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yay, Microsoft.

  30. I do not see a problem.. by bleh-of-the-huns · · Score: 1

    With this, as long as they don't add stipulations that exclude other applications and OS's. As long as the aid moneys/software/training is not used to finance other applications and such, then this is not a big deal, but if they say you can only get the "aid" if your environment consists only of MS products, then I have a major problem.

    --
    I came, I conquered, I coredumped
  31. Wester governments do the same too by bogaboga · · Score: 1

    Ayala said.' If you don't use Windows you don't get the cash."

    I wonder whether slashdotters know that western governments' dollar aid to needy countries is tied to these countries purchasing hardware and technical services from corporations in their countries. It does not matter whether the beneficiary country has better technocrats who know the [local] language and are ready to deliver cheaply and immediately.

    I guess Microsoft borrowed a leaf from the USA. Sadly, the results of this practice have been very dismal and not those one can be proud of. They continue to do the same after all, there is a saying that goes..."a beggar has no choice...!"

    1. Re:Wester governments do the same too by jorghis · · Score: 1

      What is wrong with that? The third world countries get free goods/services and the western governments get to stimulate their own economy. If someone gave you a free car would you get pissed that the car wasnt the one you wanted?

  32. Not a shock, an outrage. by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

    I know your type. MICROSOFT KILLS BABIES!!! Yeah, well, they're a company, don't act like you're surprised.

    News flash: Incorporation does not automatically remove ethical responsibility.

    Aside from that, in case you're the cynical type who views "doing the right thing" as a bleeding-heart, touchy-feely concept that has no place in a cold, capitalist world, try this: Free press and goodwill.

    I should also point out that there are corporations which genuinely do just give, without necessarily a direct ulterior motive. Google's Sumer of Code is a good example.

    --
    Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    1. Re:Not a shock, an outrage. by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      "I should also point out that there are corporations which genuinely do just give, without necessarily a direct ulterior motive. Google's Sumer of Code is a good example."
      Yes they do but Google's Summer of code isn't a great example. It is a recruitment tool and does buy them a lot of good publicity.
      The company I work for does donate to a charity that helps disabled children. We don't publicize it because the owner thinks of this as an act of charity.
      We also give away our software to school that in our industry and train their teachers for free.

      Yes a corporation can be expected to make charitable contributions that do not directly benefit them.
      What you can not expect them to do is to provide donations that are actually counter to their interests!

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    2. Re:Not a shock, an outrage. by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      Yes they do but Google's Summer of code isn't a great example. It is a recruitment tool and does buy them a lot of good publicity.

      It also doesn't directly benefit them, in that it's still entirely possible for someone to complete their SoC project, get paid, and go on to work at Microsoft. Nothing about SoC limits it to more than open source.

      The company I work for does donate to a charity that helps disabled children. We don't publicize it because the owner thinks of this as an act of charity.

      That is a better example, but precisely because you don't publicize it, it's not a really solid example -- I can't verify that you're even telling the truth, and assuming you are, there are still details missing. (I'm not asking you to fill these in, for obvious reasons...)

      What you can not expect them to do is to provide donations that are actually counter to their interests!

      Phillip-Morris does.

      But perhaps, if there's a charity which you see as a good thing, that you would very much like to participate in, but is counter to the interests of your company... perhaps that says something about the interests of your company?

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    3. Re:Not a shock, an outrage. by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      "That is a better example, but precisely because you don't publicize it, " Horrible catch 22 isn't it. You can not verify it so it may or may not be true if it is publicized then it wouldn't be true charity.
        " What you can not expect them to do is to provide donations that are actually counter to their interests!

      Phillip-Morris does."

      After it has been sued to death and as away to avoid more court cases. I so wouldn't call that a good example.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
  33. Isn't this illegal? by mormop · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I seem to remember that along with using an existing monopoly to leverage one of the illegal sides of monopoly is the concept of predatory pricing, i.e. deliberately pricing a product well below it's market value in order to strike down a competitor.

    With the cost of Windows as it is, "giving" software to schools along with a condition that they must be using Windows is about as predatory as you can get. What's the EU's phone number again?

    --
    Hmmmmmm..... Deep fried and look like Squirrel.
    1. Re:Isn't this illegal? by jimicus · · Score: 1

      I suspect that this is being driven as a reaction to the OLPC project, and therefore will only be made available to developing nations - nations unlikely to have much in the way of antitrust laws and even if they did they'd be unlikely to look such a gift horse in the mouth.

    2. Re:Isn't this illegal? by RightSaidFred99 · · Score: 1

      No, it's not illegal. Thanks for playing, though.

    3. Re:Isn't this illegal? by echion · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but they're also embracing, extending, and extinguishing that project: http://radian.org/notebook/paradox-of-choice

  34. Re:Windows' superiority is not about money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Lunix is a cut-down unixoid operating system for the C64. Did you mean linux, perchance? Either way, you're (a) wrong and (b) an asshole.

  35. Yes, it is. by smitth1276 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It doesn't cost Ubuntu anything (in practical terms) to do that. It does cost Microsoft to do that. Microsoft pays people to work for them. Time absolutely is money.

    1. Re:Yes, it is. by SpaceLifeForm · · Score: 1

      You're right. So in order to compete with Ubuntu, Microsoft
      should fire most of their staff in order to reduce their costs.

      --
      You are being MICROattacked, from various angles, in a SOFT manner.
    2. Re:Yes, it is. by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      Ubuntu, Redhat/Fedora, and even Novell/Suse all offer a free product that have much more than just an OS all of which required coding, testing, packaging, distribution. In addition, they have on-line support that costs money. ALl of this involves LOADS of time. And you say that the linux distros, which have OS, Apps, etc are not worth at least as much as a free OS from MS packaged with a small amount of support? Hmmmm. Have you considered working at MS? I will bet that they would love you to be on their accounting or even Xcell development

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    3. Re:Yes, it is. by smitth1276 · · Score: 1

      And you say that the linux distros...are not worth at least as much as a free OS from MS packaged with a small amount of support?
      I'm sorry, but you seem to have mistaken me for a strawman.
    4. Re:Yes, it is. by nick.ian.k · · Score: 2, Informative

      It doesn't cost Ubuntu anything (in practical terms) to do that. It does cost Microsoft to do that. Microsoft pays people to work for them. Time absolutely is money.

      It absolutely does cost Ubuntu/Canonical, and in very practical terms. The entity controlling the distribution *does* spend money to pay some staff to make it all go, from development to marketing to professionally producing install/live cds to hosting and administration of their central repositories, forums, etc. The "time is money" argument negates the point you're trying to make - they may not pay for *all* of what's getting done, but they do take the time to deal with the folks they're not paying who are contributing to the distro. The fact that they get contributions without directly backing the folks responsible, be they volunteers or people financially compensated for their time by other entities, does not subtract value. The work still gets done.

  36. Re:Windows' superiority is not about money by vux984 · · Score: 1

    The difference being, of course, that people have to actually be willing to pay money for your product. Which is something Ubuntu can't boast... as has been proven all over the world, like in China, or Poland, or anywhere else. People would rather STEAL Windows than use Teh Lunix FOR FREE. Look at ANY country with high software piracy. Everyone STILL uses Windows.

    Er... that undermines your argument. People in these countries aren't willing to pay money for windows, and they certainly aren't willing to pay over-inflated retail prices for windows.

    But given a choice between not paying to use windows and not paying to use linux they choose to not pay to use windows because its what everyone else is using.

  37. Poor Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Microsoft seems to be operating under the same deluded stereotype that many people have about the developing world:
    <stereotype>
    - They're desperate for help
    - They're take any help they can get
    - They'll be thankful and greatful for the help
    - They'll be loyal to whomever gave the help
    </stereotype>

    The reality is this: People are people. No matter where you go, they are always the same. Sure, they have different foods they eat, different religious trappings, and different customs about who's allowed to do what when to whom for how many cookies. Basic human nature however is absolutely no different between America and India. (I should know, I've lived in both places for multiple years.)

    In China, Christian missionaries tried to convert some Chinese to Christianity. The Chinese were very enthusiastic about this conversion, and tried to pick up as many English language skills as they could. After learning enough English, they'd stop visiting the missionaries.

    In India, Christian missionaries were paying(!) Indians to convert from the Hindu religion to Christianity. Indians were very enthusiastic about this conversion. After getting a dunk in the water and ~$1 USD (for the really poor, enough to buy food for the family for a couple of days), the whole Christianity thing was quickly forgotten by those who attended. The government was in a bit of an uproar however, as it threatened to throw a lot of "scheduled caste" stuff out of whack had it been anything more than a passing fad.

    Microsoft thinks it can donate some equipment and get some future loyalty to Windows out of it? Hah! They are in for a surprise.

    Please note, I'm not saying that helping people is bad. I'm saying that having an ulterior motive for helping people is unwise, and usually won't get you what you truly want. (Especially people in the developing world, who are remarkably efficient at identifying and making the best use of limited resources.)

  38. This wouldn't have happened without Linux by clenhart · · Score: 1, Insightful

    You know, this wouldn't have happened without Linux. They'll charge as much as they can get away with. I guess they are starting to see real competition.

    1. Re:This wouldn't have happened without Linux by gubol123 · · Score: 1

      May you should do a reality check. Microsoft has been doing this for a very long time. They have been giving away software for educational institutions for as long as i can remember. i have not studied in USA. But one of relative who was studying in late 80s and early 90 had access to full microsoft suite. Linux was nothing then..

  39. Watch where you point that thing! by smitth1276 · · Score: 1

    Watch were you point that thing*, dude. This is slashdot, someone might get hurt.

    *And by "thing", I mean "logical, sensible statement".

  40. Microsoft is Evil (surprise!) by mlwmohawk · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is an example of how evil Microsoft is. They'll donate some "thing" only as long as it contributes to their business. Why this is wrong is pretty subtle. They have no intention of saving anyone any money. Typically with contributions, the outcome is a net gain for the organization receiving the contribution. Not with this deal, this will be a net loss for the schools receiving the "grants." Only the costs will be differed.

    The "training" microsoft is talking about is their typical "training" where general concepts and understanding is not part of the instructional course except where necessary to use their product. If you have ever taken any Microsoft training courses you'll know what I'm talking about. A networking class is not about networking, but about "their" networking tools.

    I have taken a couple Microsoft courses for various reasons, and have always come away saying (1) that was a huge waste of time. (2) It was like a big commercial for Microsoft products. (3) It was useless in any practical sense.

    Now, all these nicely trained people aren't going to be looking at the cost-saving alternatives like OpenOffice and/or Linux, nope, they'll be revved up to buy MS Office and Windows (because that's what they were trained on!)

    My Advice, when Microsoft offers you anything for free, turn it down, because it will always end up costing you.

    1. Re:Microsoft is Evil (surprise!) by robertjw · · Score: 1

      As far as being Evil, this isn't much different than what Apple used to do back when I was a kid in the 80s.

      Don't know how bad their training classes are, but weaseling your way into schools is a time tested marketing strategy. It's probably the only thing that kept Apple going for years.

    2. Re:Microsoft is Evil (surprise!) by mlwmohawk · · Score: 1

      As far as being Evil, this isn't much different than what Apple used to do back when I was a kid in the 80s.

      I never said it was original. Microsoft doesn't know how to be original. Everything Microsoft has ever done has been stolen, copied, or bought from someone else.

    3. Re:Microsoft is Evil (surprise!) by robertjw · · Score: 1

      So was it Evil when Jobs did it?

    4. Re:Microsoft is Evil (surprise!) by mlwmohawk · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So was it Evil when Jobs did it?

      Of course it was, but when a small marginal player does something "evil," it's impact is mitigated by its ability to capitalize on it. When a convicted monopolist does something evil, everyone suffers.

  41. doubletake by Speare · · Score: 3, Funny
    I hate it when I glance at something and read it slightly wrong. Ever happen to you?

    If you don't use Windows you don't get the crash.
    --
    [ .sig file not found ]
  42. It has to be said by guisar · · Score: 2, Informative

    Last year, Microsoft introduced the Student Indoctrination Suite, which includes the XP Stuckwithit Edition plus educational applications, for $3 for groveling countries. Microsoft has avoided competition from companies supporting the open-source OS Linux and associated software except in countries which can be bought off. "I think as a company we welcome choice," [Orlando Ayala] said. "Frankly, we welcome the competition, we just don't like other people trying to take our business." The company's educational funding comes with a hitch: "Of course, that includes the fact they [the schools] use Windows," Ayala said.' You don't think we're doing this for good of the students do you?.

  43. libraries by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is pretty much the deal they have been giving public libraries for a long time now.

  44. I think Red Hat should... by thanksforthecrabs · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Give $235 Million worth of hardware w/ Linux installed and quit complaining.

    1. Re:I think Red Hat should... by msuarezalvarez · · Score: 1

      You must have some inside information. I for one have not read not heard that Redhat had complained...

  45. Here is 1 million dollars by thorkyl · · Score: 1

    You can only buy red meat sold by vegetarian farmers born on the third sunday after the second full moon. BTW this is my cousin he meets the criteria...

    --
    -- I am the NRA, enough said...
  46. The end of the article is far more interesting by Comboman · · Score: 2, Insightful
    While slightly off-topic, the end of the referenced article is far more interesting:

    While Microsoft is nudging consumers and businesses in developed markets to use its latest Windows Vista operating system, XP will remain the OS the company supports for low-cost laptops such as the Asus Eee and Intel's Classmate PC, Ayala said.

    The reason is XP has a smaller footprint than Vista, Ayala said, referring to factors such as how much memory the OS uses and the size of the OS on a PC's hard drive.

    Microsoft is still working through some of the "technical limitations" that remain in putting XP on the XO, the green PC from the One Laptop Per Child project, Ayala said.

    Considering MS is already talking about Vista's replacement next year with Windows 7, is anyone else shocked that they are continuing to put development resources into XP?

    --
    Support Right To Repair Legislation.
  47. Should schools turn down this gift? by walterbyrd · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I am reminded of that Simpson's episode with the Oscar Myer periodic chart with "bolognium" and "delicium."

    I think schools should turn this msft "gift" down. There is nothing that msft is offering, that does not have a free alternative.

    I am sure a lot of people will label me a linux zealot. But the truth is, I completely understand that linux is not for everybody. But schools are a different matter. Schools should teach vendor-neutral concepts. Students should not be taught that vendor specific jargon and standards are somehow universal. For example, what msft calls a "domain" is different than what is commonly understood. I already notice a lot of students thinking that anything non-msft is non-standard.

    Unlike commercial institutions, students do not have the same concerns about the acceptance of vendor specific document formats. For example, some accountants will only accept Intuit formated income statements - so some small businesses have to use Intuit, but students should be able to learn the concepts of accounting, and accounting concepts, without being tied to a specific vendor.

    Again, I want to emphasize: students should be taught *concepts* then those concepts can be applied to software from any vendor. Schools should not be in the business of promoting a particular vendor - especially if that vendor does not offer anything that is that freely available anyway.

    Sometimes it is very difficult to avoid vendor-lock, but for students, it's easy. So why be vendor locked if you don't have to be?

    1. Re:Should schools turn down this gift? by Nukenbar · · Score: 1

      Im not sure about this. At some point you just have to learn to use the tool. It shop class, should the teacher teach the student about the concept of a screwdriver because the teacher doesn't want to be tied to a specific flat-head screwdriver, or should he give you a screwdriver and let you get to work? Microsoft is basically giving away licenses to schools so students can learn. Why is this so bad?

    2. Re:Should schools turn down this gift? by GaryPatterson · · Score: 1

      In an increasingly free-market, user-pays world, we're seeing education move from the public sector to the private sector. As funding becomes more of an issue (got to run these school-like businesses at a profit!) we're going to see businesses tie the gift of money to some benefit they receive (probably advertising).

      Schools *should* be vendor-neutral, but when they're private companies being run for profit, they can't afford to be.

      If you think I'm being overly alarmist at the rise of education companies, have a look through the shock therapy ideas of the late Milton Friedman. As an example, New Orleans before Hurricane Katrina had 132 schools run on the public purse. After Katrina it had 7, with the difference being picked up by an increase in private-run charter schools. The public money goes to school vouchers which parents use to pay for their children's education.

      So far, so good - less money from the public purse, everyone's happy. The state should not run businesses, and modern schools look a lot like businesses to the casual observer.

      Although the people of New Orleans didn't have much opportunity to debate or even speak out about the wholesale change to their school system, as they were still in shock and trying to rebuild their homes. The teachers were almost all sacked, some being rehired by the schools at a lower wage, most not.

      And what happens when another business offers essentially free money to one of these school-like businesses? Why shouldn't the for-profit charter school pocket the money and make their shareholders happy?

      Suddenly we get the Oscar Meyer periodic chart!

    3. Re:Should schools turn down this gift? by Eivind+Eklund · · Score: 1
      The problem is that instead of screwdrivers, they're teaching the kids to program small robots that drive over and drive in the screw, and requiring that all teaching use these instead of screwdrivers.

      Eivind.

      --
      Doubting the existence of evolution is like doubting the existence of China: It just shows that you're uninformed.
  48. Microsoft by om_mani_padme_hung · · Score: 1

    Microsoft pelus! Linux yeset dop!

  49. That is some expensive training. by t-maxx+cowboy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Let me see now. 270 million newly trained people for Microsoft applications. $235 million dollars being spent to train up said people. Cost of training 1 person $870 thousand US dollars.

    I prefer alternatives to Microsoft applications, but if Microsoft would just pay me the $870 thousand US dollars to me directly I would gladly learn all the Microsoft applications. No one said I had to continue using them after I learned to use them.

    --
    Regards,

    Ryan Pritchard
    Fun Extends All Basic Life Expectancies
    1. Re:That is some expensive training. by danzona · · Score: 1

      You lost a million in your calculations.

      MS is spending 87 cents / zombie.

    2. Re:That is some expensive training. by t-maxx+cowboy · · Score: 1

      Before anyone else says it. I am a dork. $.87 per person. Something in my brain was focusing on the 275 not the 275,000,000, when my math skills worked their magic.

      I care not about this article any longer.

      --
      Regards,

      Ryan Pritchard
      Fun Extends All Basic Life Expectancies
    3. Re:That is some expensive training. by t-maxx+cowboy · · Score: 1

      Now I can't even get the 270 million right. Gee I give up.

      --
      Regards,

      Ryan Pritchard
      Fun Extends All Basic Life Expectancies
    4. Re:That is some expensive training. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, where did you learn math? 235 million dollars / 270 million users = 87 cents a user

    5. Re:That is some expensive training. by t-maxx+cowboy · · Score: 1

      Some one please mod my original original reply post down. There is nothing insightful with a math error. A rather big math error to boot.

      You will have to forgive my original reply post, I replied from a computer running Windows. Studies have tied usage of said operating system to temporary inability to perform basic math functions.

      --
      Regards,

      Ryan Pritchard
      Fun Extends All Basic Life Expectancies
  50. Re:Can't blame 'em for trying... by Capt+James+McCarthy · · Score: 1

    '"The schools do benefit some." How is that? It just means that they'll likely forego decent comparison of operating systems and their total cost of ownership. Remember, the Windows license is just the start, they'll also have to factor in the cost of managing the systems, troubleshooting, and eventually, the cost to upgrade all their Microsoft applications because of security issues and vulnerabilities. This stunt just delays the inevitable. "as a company we welcome choice" [Orlando Ayala] ...and that's why we give them the choice to use any OS as long as it's Windows.'

    So you are telling me that they do not benefit at all? I did say some. Yes, they are potentially losing a lab with multiple OS types that they can tinker with, but I'm not sure if the clauses that come from MS state that they cannot have any other OS in the school. And if a school deployed a linux desktop, there would be cost of systems management and troubleshooting (sic). Where are your savings again? As for 'upgrading' because of security reasons, are not patches included with the MS license?

    And don't forget how many educational programs are only windows capable (99% perhaps). If a school was to switch to a linux desktop, they would still have to pay for those programs regardless of the desktop OS. I'm purposely leaving OSX out of this discussion since they would cost even more as a desktop implementation.

    I don't like MS as much as anyone. However, their desktop does have it's place in many institutional environments. (please read desktop, not server) Can a linux desktop do the same thing without license fees. Sure it can. But how many of the norms are willing to switch.

    --
    There are no loopholes. It's either legal or it's not.
  51. Users of Microsoft software... by QuietLagoon · · Score: 1
    The best customers money can buy.

    Anyone else notice a pattern here? Microsoft has to buy the votes of standards committees, now Microsoft has to buy customers for its software.

    1. Re:Users of Microsoft software... by westlake · · Score: 1
      The best customers money can buy.

      So Sun underwrites and staffs OpenOffice.org as a charity?

  52. That sure is expensive training by sgrover · · Score: 1

    "Microsoft will spend $235m in schools worldwide over the next five years, part of a plan to triple the number of students and teachers trained in its software programs to up to 270 million by 2013."

    So, does that mean it costs close to $1 million to train each user? (ok, if I do the math it's something like $870,000)

    Here I thought writing software was where the good money was.... silly me...

  53. Frankly? by Daniel+Phillips · · Score: 0, Troll

    "Frankly, we welcome the competition." -- Orlando Ayala

    Allow me to translate that newspeak to English: "Frankly, we detest competition and will go to any lengths to end it."

    --
    Have you got your LWN subscription yet?
  54. Weak analogy by walterbyrd · · Score: 1

    "It shop class, should the teacher teach the student about the concept of a screwdriver because the teacher doesn't want to be tied to a specific flat-head screwdriver"

    I am sorry, but that is an absurdly weak analogy. Using one vendor's screw driver, over another, does not teach students that only one vendor does things the correct way. One screw driver is used just like another.

    "Microsoft is basically giving away licenses to schools so students can learn. Why is this so bad?"

    It is not so bad. But schools, and especially students, would be much better served if they taught vendor-neutral concepts, instead of working to increase msft's illegal stranglehold on all IT standards. Especially since locking students into the msft-only mindset does not save the schools even one thin dime.

    1. Re:Weak analogy by Nukenbar · · Score: 1

      I know that the analogy is weak, but my point is simply that if Microsoft wants to give away free software and hardware, then that is a good thing, even if they require that Microsoft software be used on the hardware.

      Most schools should welcome it because something is better than nothing. Most Public schools chould use all of the help they can get.

  55. Specialization vs Jack of All Trades by Dareth · · Score: 1

    I agree that OSS will play a significant role in servers and enterprise in the future. This does not mean one has to be proficient with OSS to work in the field. People specialize in one or two niches in a field. They may be very very good at what they do and get paid well for it, without ever mastering OSS.

    I am personally a Jack of All Trades, with the required "Master of None". I have not specialized, and enjoy learning technology, not excluding Microsoft products. I actually enjoy integrating OSS and Windows. I have successes and failures at it, but I always come away having learned something. I am not an expert, but I am a professional. I get paid to do this.

    I occasionally try new food, but at some restaurants I have definitely specialized in a particular meal. Sometimes a known quantity/quality is better than the unknown. Damn, if I keep talking like that, I could work in HR!

    --

    I only look human.
    My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
  56. Re:Can't blame 'em for trying... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Microsoft did something similar with the libriaries here, so assuming the clauses are similar, and my sources are correct (by no means ceratain),, then no, this only affects machines bought with the money MS gives them. That said, the terms the library tells me they're under are pretty onerous, right down to requiring that IE be the only web browser. (The library puts up with it, because the last time they had a budget for new patron systems, it was the nineties).

    *ponders convincing somebody to give them a few gPCs to replace the win 98 machines...

  57. Windows Required or Windows [Only] Required? by Dareth · · Score: 1

    I read the article to see if this was spelled out. Nowhere did it specify whether the schools just had to have the required software needed for the training, or could not have anything else.

    Do you suppose the trainers will show up, find an old computer running Linux in a back closet, and immediately pack up and leave?

    --

    I only look human.
    My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
    1. Re:Windows Required or Windows [Only] Required? by jorghis · · Score: 1

      I really doubt it. A lot of people on here seem to be jumping to that conclusion even though TFA said nothing like that. If it actually was true dont you think it would have been mentioned?

  58. Indoctrination not education. by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1
    Microsoft has long been interested in the education of children.

    The correct term here is indoctrination not education - fixed that for ya.

    Indoctrination is the process of inculcating ideas, attitudes, cognitive strategies or a professional methodology. It is often distinguished from education by the fact that the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned.

    I believe the strategy here is to get them started on Windows when they're young, so they'll be users forever -- just like cigarettes...

    --
    It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
  59. Mod Parent Up by Requiem18th · · Score: 1

    Excuse me, AC is right here, 'm' == 1/1000 according to. Of course the milidollar, as the megadollar or the kilodollar, are muck units but "you also don't know what the fuck you're talking about" is unwarranted and mean.

    Summarily:

    You must be a riot in parties.

    --
    But... the future refused to change.
    1. Re:Mod Parent Up by Reality+Master+201 · · Score: 1

      Excuse you, but both you and AC are wrong. The AC was merely being hasty and bullshitty. You, however, appear to have very poor reading comprehension. If you hadn't, you might have noticed two things.

      First, when I said that the "m" following the dollar figure wasn't an SI unit, I wasn't saying that m isn't used to indicate thousandths in SI units. It is.

      What I was saying is that dollars are not an SI unit. They are not. Indeed, if you were able to extract information from the things you'd read, you might have noticed the section in the article you cite titled "Non-SI units," where it states:

      "They are also occasionally used with currency units (e.g., gigadollar), mainly by people who are familiar with the prefixes from scientific usage."

      I point out both the title of the section, as well as the quote, wherein it indicates that the use of the SI prefixes is occasional and limited to scientific types, rather than common parlance.

      More importantly, I'd like to point out that the SI prefixes are prefixes. If you look carefully at the string "$235m," you'll notice something about the placement of the "m." To wit, it's comes after - not just the unit (the $), but after the value itself. That's not a prefix, that's a suffix.

      Summarily:
      You're a jackass.

  60. only problem by fishbowl · · Score: 1

    Only problem I have with this. If you tie a "charitable" contribution into a requirement that the beneficiary uses your product, you should get ZERO consideration for it at tax time. It must not be both a charitable contribution and a marketing or sales campaign. Choose one or the other.

    --
    -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
  61. If they don't use MS, they don't NEED the money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No text

    1. Re:If they don't use MS, they don't NEED the money by hansonc · · Score: 1

      because the only thing they need to spend money on is software licenses?

      Wouldn't want kids to have any training on the software they're going to be using in the real world now would we?

    2. Re:If they don't use MS, they don't NEED the money by FireFury03 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Wouldn't want kids to have any training on the software they're going to be using in the real world now would we?

      When I was at school we were trained on Acorns (as was pretty much everyone in the UK at the time). Certainly not what is used in industry. I'm not convinced this caused harm - if anything I think it helped develop the skills needed to use *any* system rather than just learning MS software by rote.

      In any case, whether you teach kids MS Office or OpenOffice when they are at school, by the time they get out into the real world no office software will look much like what they learnt - teaching the principles involved in using the software is far more important than teaching the software itself since the principles are transferable to whatever software they end up using in the real world - whether that be the latest greatest Microsoft software or something completely different.

  62. lol by WindBourne · · Score: 1

    Yeah, I should have heard the whooshing sounds going over. Time to get some sleep .

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  63. How does it hurt MS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They've not got to SUPPORT linux running on donated hardware. They don't get fewer sales because of schools using Linux (or they lose $3 per sale but don't have to package, send and so on).

    So how does it hurt for MS to give hardware and for it to be used on, ooh, OS/2?

    When I work for charity, I can't sit at home and enjoy a movie. That hurts.

    1. Re:How does it hurt MS? by plague3106 · · Score: 1

      The theory is that people that use Linux in school will likely want to use it at home and later in work, which would hurt sales. Even if that's not true, it doesn't harm them to give licenses away, and they perceive a benefit.

      When I work for charity, I can't sit at home and enjoy a movie. That hurts.

      No it doesn't, or you wouldn't do it.

  64. Surely... by dwiget001 · · Score: 1

    ... this would run afoul of anti-trust laws. Surely.

  65. Reminds me of infant formula by KWTm · · Score: 1

    Microsoft providing free Microsoft software for lock-in reminds me of infant formula companies providing free formula to developing countries so that people won't realize that there is a free, superior and natural alternative: breast milk. It took a great deal of initiative to overcome the powerful propaganda machine of the wealthy companies.

    Nowadays people recognize issues behind a company trying to give "aid in the form of free infant formula" to poor countries, and no longer say, "Wow, what an altruistic and heroic company!" People aren't savvy enough yet to do this with software, but I hope that the FOSS movement can continue to promote this awareness.

    Please keep up the momentum, my fellow Slashdotters.

    --
    404555974007725459910684486621289147856453481154 in hex is "You sank my Battleship?"
    [GPG key in journal]
  66. Trained? Or using? by r_jensen11 · · Score: 1

    ...Part of a plan to triple the number of students and teachers trained in its software programs... This would be fantastic if people were actually taught how to use the software properly. However, I'm guessing the acutal implementation of this program is going to discount licensing fees to schools, without teaching anyone how to actually use a word processor or a database properly.
  67. Charitable Tax Credit by PhotoGuy · · Score: 1

    This is quite brilliant, really. Using charitable (and thus tax-free) dollars to promote your product.

    That practice should be illegal (if it isn't) for non-monopolies, and it sure as hell should be wildly illegal for a monopoly.

    If this (or other similar activities like buying Windows and donating it) is done through the Bill & Melinda gates foundation, it should lose its charitable organization designation, and pay corporate taxes for such corporate promotion activities.

    Watching from Canada (all tucked away down there), it's hard to think anything other than the fact that the government is clearly owned (figuratively, if not somewhat literally) by Microsoft...

    --
    Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
  68. Microsoft Africa by westlake · · Score: 1
    I don't think the Slashdot Geek realizes how big a presence Microsoft has in education in places like Africa:

    The Chairman of Microsoft Africa Zone, Dr. Cheick Modibo Diarra, has said his company would soon develop and launch a communication satellite for Africa [part of] the company's commitment to provide a fast Internet connection to meet up with the continent's ever-increasing use of Information and Communication Technology, ICT. {The satellite would,] to a larger extent, serve in the transmission of mobile phone signals as well as radio and television, thereby improving communication within the continent and beyond. Microsoft and the University of Yaounde I [have signed an agreement] to lay the groundwork for development of the [satellite]. Cameroon: Microsoft Partners With Schools for IT Development [Dec 21, 2007]

    [Microsoft] Faculty Connection [ introduced at the first ever Microsoft Academic Day in Lagos] is a resource for technology news, customisable courseware, access to the latest Microsoft technology and faculty-only community forums for like-minded academic professionals. A number of higher education institutions, including the University of Lagos, the University of Ibadan and Nnamdi Azikiwe University are already receiving the benefits which are part of the IT Academy programme, including training, certification as well as access to the latest Microsoft Official Curriculum and technologies.

    On the Imagine Cup Competition, Szenvedi said that Microsoft is encouraging young people to apply their imagination, passion and creativity to technology innovations that can make a difference in the world today. He added that Nigerian students who competed in this year's edition developed applications that were world-class. Nigeria: Microsoft's Faculty Connection [January 16, 2008]

  69. Re:Can't blame 'em for trying... by Schmool · · Score: 1

    don't forget how many educational programs are only windows capable (99% perhaps). I don't know where you live, but here in the US, Apple has traditionally been the number one supplier to education. Since a couple of years, it's the number one supplier for education in Western Europe as well. In Switzerland, 55% of all computers in education are Macs. Given the amount of Macs in education, I seriously doubt that 99% percent of all educational programs only run on Windows.

    I'm purposely leaving OSX out of this discussion since they would cost even more as a desktop implementation. That's curious, because it has been shown time and again that Apple computers have a lower total cost of ownership. Sources: http://www.networkworld.com/best/2006/022706bestbreaker-schwartau.html, http://www.newsfactor.com/story.xhtml?story_id=22738, http://www.cio.com/article/127050/Eight_Financial_Reasons_Why_You_Should_Use_Mac_OS.
  70. microsoft and linux, here pig pig pig! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What concerns me are the ducks being lined up:

    Novell
    Xandros
    Linspire
    and others

    Which have entered into agreements with Microsoft and some (Xandros and the EEeePC , or whatever its called -and- Linspire and computers at Sears) of these are launching into stores since the Dell/Ubuntu efforts launched by the most noble Mark Shuttleworth. With people buying these Xandros/Linspire machines, is there a Microsoft tax involved? Can we expect more companies to join Microsoft and sell Linux? Should something bad happen and the Ubuntu well dries up, will Microsoft retract the Microsoft-pact Linux offerings? We know what happened to Corel Linux after Microsoft came in.

  71. Open source in schools. by ResidentSourcerer · · Score: 1

    As the entire IT department for my small school, I exclusively use OS OS's for my servers: Three freebsd boxes for file server, data server, backup (at the other end of the building) and an OpenBSD box for my firewall.

    Periodically I look at using freebsd or linux on the desktop, but end up turning it down, as a huge increase in complexity.

    We have two applications at present that require winsnooze or mac to run. One is "The Learning Equation" which is a grades 7 through 12 set of math programs. The other is "Accelerated Reader" which basically acts as a record keeper/testing progress program for running a recreational reading program.

    Accelerated Reader REQUIRES adobe acrobat reader for the reports. It doesn't require a pdf reader, it requires AAR. Further not just any version of AAR. Has to be either 5 or 7. And it does this by checking registry entries. Yes I've written to the company. It also requires flash. AR works. We have kids who never read a book before they came here now reading books for pleasure.

    TLE may run under wine. Haven't tried it. Somehow I don't think that wine running on a 64 MByte 500 MHz PC will have reasonable performance. Correct me if I'm wrong.

    TLE only sort of works. Most of our teachers find that it has a few strong points for illustrating concepts that are hard to do on a whiteboard, but it is ineffective at presenting new material, giving practice in using it, or assessing mastery of it.

    The problem is more fundamental. Educational software is expensive. I told one software company this, and came back with surprise: "It's not even $30 per seat!"
    I pointed out that their particular package could only be used for about 6 hours of instruction during a course. A textbook, on the other hand, was typically used for half an hour a day in class, and another half hour to hour for homework. The TCO of a textbook worked out to being under 25 cents per instructional hour. If we use the same 5 year schedule for software it works out to about a buck an hour, not counting time for maintenance. I told him that I want educational software that could compete with a textbook.

    Worse than this, however, is that using ed software is much like bringing auxilary materials into the classroom. It makes a nice change, but you can't base a course on it. As far as I've been able to find, no one has a completely computerized math curriculum. That is, a system that would be suitable for home schooling, distance learning, or self taught student.

    What OS education needs are good authoring systems for educational software -- A system that enables a good teacher to create a 'smart textbook'

    --
    Third Career: Tree Farmer Second Career: Computer Geek First Career: Teacher, Outdoor Instructor, Photographer.
  72. I have only one question - by Geminii · · Score: 1
    What, exactly, is their definition of 'use'?

    Does it mean having the software physically on the premises? Use it for foundations. Does it mean having a certain number of hard disks with Windows on them as the OS? Dumpster diving, ebay, and the old janitor's closet can take care of that. Does it mean having the copy of Windows within a certain distance from the students? Under the floorboards counts, right?

    Are they mandating that the students be forced to sit and use a Windows machine for a certain amount of time per day? Are they mandating what the student-facing interface has to look like?

    It seems that for any condition set, there would be a way to get around it. Lawyers at dawn and all that.

  73. Can anyone in the US spell RICO ?? by Schtroumpf42 · · Score: 0
    Yup, the same famous law enacted at a time when racketeering was in his infancy (ie. not widely used as a main business model for Top-List companies) ....
    This is clearly the case here ... and seems to be a growing trend for those that fail to invent compelling products ... RIAA is in the same business, as are the so-called "Innovation-driven" patent companies with no products whatsoever

    Cant such companies compete with the collective minds of talented programmers ? What use are the billions they say they invest in R&D ? Lawyer & litigation fees ?
    FYI, XP, and later Vista, is only an aggregation of ideas pioneered in several Open-Source, Linux-originated products :
    • Gnome, for its elegant UI
    • Enlightenment, for the visual effects
    • Compiz, or whatever it was named back then, for the 3D-desktop
    Not to mention the original Windows UIs, stolen from the Xerox labs and MacOS designs ...

    --
    Disclaimer
    • I am not an Historian
    • The whole business of IP laws was to promote incremental innovation, no ?
    • "Linux", "MacOS", "Xerox" are Copyrighted terms, protecting the inventions by their respective authors
    • "Windows", "Vista", "XP" are Copyrighted trade marks, designed to protect their right-holder, despites the fact that "windows" is only the plural of a common english noun
    • Sue me, and I'll shatter the IP laws in so many pieces that IP lawyers will be forced to do some real hard work in the process ...
    • Books to be published ... stay tuned
    • This message, passing through so many computer systems, whose security status cannot ALL be PROVEN to have been uncompromized at the time of this writing, may not even have been written by me !!!