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Anti-Piracy Group Violates Swiss Law to Track File Sharing

Posted by ScuttleMonkey on from the define-zealot dept.

An anonymous reader writes "Another fight appears to be brewing in Switzerland over how file sharers are identified. Logistep, a company that specializes in anti-piracy by collecting computer evidence against file sharers for use in lawsuits, seems to have taken an end run around Swiss law in order to try and settle cases out of court. 'Under Swiss law, the identity of a subscriber to an ISP (Internet service provider) can only be revealed during the course of a criminal case, not a civil one, Schaefer said. The IP (Internet Protocol) address of a computer controlled by the subscriber is considered "personal" information. In order to try to claim damages from people suspected of trading songs or movies, Logistep has asked Swiss prosecutors to open criminal cases, Schaefer said. As the criminal cases progresses, Logistep receives information from prosecutors that identifies the file sharer.'"

95 comments

  1. The REAL Villains Here by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The real villains here are the Swiss prosecutors who are going along with this scheme. They should be ashamed -- and Fired! (Donald Trump, where are you?)

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
    1. Re:The REAL Villains Here by TubeSteak · · Score: 1, Redundant

      The real villains here are the Swiss prosecutors who are going along with this scheme. The good news is that Swiss citizens, with their direct democracy, can easily hold their public officials accountable. Though at the Federal level, a citizen initiated law needs the support of the states.
      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    2. Re:The REAL Villains Here by CSMatt · · Score: 1

      Is what they are doing against criminal law? If not then there is nothing for prosecutors to charge them for.

    3. Re:The REAL Villains Here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      wow, so anyone suggesting that downloading copyrighted stuff without paying the creator is not just dandy is a 'troll'? how sad. Are you all kids or something?

    4. Re:The REAL Villains Here by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      Some people just want other people to pay for that which they personally disagree, even if it is perfectly legal.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    5. Re:The REAL Villains Here by CSMatt · · Score: 1

      Which is why things like habeas corpus exist. I don't know how Switzerland handles criminal trials, but I would imagine that bringing someone up on charges that didn't exist in criminal law would be enough to warrant a dismissal.

    6. Re:The REAL Villains Here by eiapoce · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Unfortunately it is the "allowing content to be created" part the has been trolled around since the '70 by the RIAA and recently by the MPAA... Everybody knows that if that was true then there would'nt be any music by now.

      The last year we, the costumers, have been exposed to frequent scripwriters strikes. They clearly stated that MPAA associated corporations keep most profits for themself and then starve honest content creators. This is enought to debunk the myth.

      Now it is also more than clear that part of the money goes to borderline legal firms like Logistep who (ab)use loopholes in international law to violate citizens privacy and honestly in europe we don't tolerate this. We rate privacy more than corporate profit over here... http://www.mafiaa.org/

    7. Re:The REAL Villains Here by mpe · · Score: 1

      The real villains here are the Swiss prosecutors who are going along with this scheme. They should be ashamed -- and Fired!

      Or even face a firing squad composed of the Swiss citizens who's details they allowed to be leaked. Given that summary execution is the traditional punishment for High Treason.

    8. Re:The REAL Villains Here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I believe the last occurrence of that was in 1912 or so (it was an Anarchist demonstration). Perhaps it is a good idea.
      However, yes, the Swiss are *very* independent minded and are unlikely to let this one pass.

    9. Re:The REAL Villains Here by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 1

      I would imagine that bringing someone up on charges that didn't exist in criminal law would be enough to warrant a dismissal.

      The problem is that the dismissal apparently happens after the disclosure of the personal identifying information. Once the cat's out of the bag, it doesn't go be in willingly.

      --
      "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
    10. Re:The REAL Villains Here by billcopc · · Score: 1

      I wish I could mod you higher than 5!

      Corruption is the root of a HUGE number of problems in today's corporate society. Abuse of power is a direct contributor to social decline.

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
  2. Who watches the watchers? by KublaiKhan · · Score: 4, Interesting

    So who is it that should prosecute the prosecutors?

    --
    In Xanadu did Kubla Khan
    A stately pleasure dome decree
    1. Re:Who watches the watchers? by realthing02 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Is that similar to meta-moderating?

      -1, jailbait.

    2. Re:Who watches the watchers? by KublaiKhan · · Score: 2, Interesting

      More or less...all the meta-levels get a little odd after a while.

      Quite seriously, though, what sort of judicial review exists in Switzerland? Is there anything in place to hold these people accountable?

      --
      In Xanadu did Kubla Khan
      A stately pleasure dome decree
    3. Re:Who watches the watchers? by gr3kgr33n · · Score: 1

      No, the real question is, which defense attorney haven't these prosecutors annoyed that would be willing to defend them?

      --
      My backup chemistry thesis stored on Data Storing Bacteria mutated; granting me a degree in forensic anthropology. v4sw7
    4. Re:Who watches the watchers? by yada21 · · Score: 0

      what sort of judicial review exists in Switzerland? Is there anything in place to hold these people accountable?
      Well everybody has a rifle at home...
      --
      I will have a sig when the market demands it.
    5. Re:Who watches the watchers? by meringuoid · · Score: 1
      So who is it that should prosecute the prosecutors?

      Rorschach.

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    6. Re:Who watches the watchers? by Res3000 · · Score: 1

      Yes, while thats true, by the end of the year we only have a rifle at home, but no ammunition for it... (Yes, that's right. You *have* to take your rifle home, but you can't take any ammo with it)

    7. Re:Who watches the watchers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So what would you do if you got invaded - is there some procedure for distributing the ammo PDQ, or do you rely on bayonets?

  3. Swiss law is broken by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    if someone can attack you on the internet, and there is no way to identify who the attacker is to file a lawsuit against the person. This goes for other things besides file sharing, such as libel.

    1. Re:Swiss law is broken by timmarhy · · Score: 1
      But if all these attacks are from anonymous cowards like you, then they carry no weight and therefore a libel suit has no merit since no damage can be done.

      note that if the accusations are actually true and have evidence to back them up then it doesn't matter if they are anonymous or not, and a libel suit won't be successful.

      in other words, ananimity protects us from both attack

      --
      If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
    2. Re:Swiss law is broken by Stanistani · · Score: 1

      >in other words, ananimity protects us from both attack

      I have another word...

      Inanity protects all three of us. ;)

      --
      You can't talk about Wikipedia's flaws on Wikipedia
    3. Re:Swiss law is broken by cdrguru · · Score: 1

      There are no consequences to actions on the Internet, and this just affirms it.

    4. Re:Swiss law is broken by Dan541 · · Score: 1

      if someone can attack you on the internet, and there is no way to identify who the attacker is to file a lawsuit against the person. This goes for other things besides file sharing, such as libel. If someone says something you dont like!

      In other words their freedom of speech!

      --
      An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
  4. I dunno... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    The Coast Guard?

  5. Swiss independence by redelm · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Oh my. Somebody is going to get into _big_ trouble. The Swiss are _very_ independant minded, perhaps even moreso than Americans. They also take their laws very seriously and playing games is quite simply not allowed.


    I expect the civil suits to be dismissed with prejudice (or whatever the civil code equivalent is) and countersuits for fraudulent prosecution to proceed.


    If the copyright holders don't like the law, they can lobby to get it changed. Otherwise, the Swiss guard their privacy very jealously. They've stood up to various flavors of nasty Germans and French. I very much doubt they'll cave to the RIAA equivalent. Please also remember that K-Tel is a swiss corp deliberately to take advantage of copyright laws.

    1. Re:Swiss independence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh my. Somebody is going to get into _big_ trouble. The Swiss are _very_ independant minded, perhaps even moreso than Americans. They also take their laws very seriously and playing games is quite simply not allowed.

      I don't quite follow your reasoning. Prosecutors get a complaint, prosecutors believe the complaint has merit, prosecutors open a criminal case. Later prosecutors drop the case once they decide the case does not have merit.

      Unless the Swiss prosecutors automatically open criminal complaints without looking at the evidence, the problem lies in the Swiss prosecutors, not the complainant.

      Please also remember that K-Tel is a swiss corp deliberately to take advantage of copyright laws.

      I doubt it. The Swiss signed the Berne Convention. And even if Swiss copyright law is very different, once K-Tel tries to sell their products in the USA, US copyright law applies.

    2. Re:Swiss independence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please also remember that K-Tel is a swiss corp deliberately to take advantage of copyright laws.

      Swiss? Really?

      K-tel disagrees with you.

    3. Re:Swiss independence by sammydee · · Score: 0, Offtopic
      Oh my. Somebody is going to get into _big_ trouble. The Swiss are _very_ independent minded, perhaps even moreso than Americans. They also take their laws very seriously and playing games is quite simply not allowed.

      Oh you must be referring to the same independent minded Americans who voted George Bush into office TWICE, of which 37% believe that teaching of evolution in schools should be abolished and replaced with creationism; of which 61% believe that torture is justified in order to "beat the t'urrists". The same Americans who have calmly bent over for the last ten or so years and allowed themselves to be anally savaged by big business and their own government. The same independent minded people that will accept just about any violation of their so-called constitutional rights as soon as somebody mentions the word "terrorism".

      Yeah. Real independent. I'll take Switzerland thanks.

      --
      This is how the loudness war is killing music.
    4. Re:Swiss independence by redelm · · Score: 1

      Well, yes, I've used a bit of shorthand. As have you. Prosecutors to not get cases from the public, they get them from police. Police get complaints from the public. The real problem here is the leak of police information, and I very much doubt it will be tolerated. It would undermine the respect for police, something the Swiss do have.

    5. Re:Swiss independence by Tribaal_ch · · Score: 2, Interesting

      They don't get to lobby to get a law changed. In Switzerland, national laws are voted by referendum.

    6. Re:Swiss independence by redelm · · Score: 1

      Thank you for the elaboration. But I believe that referenda were only for major laws, and not for minor changes. Allowing civil discover would probably be legally considered a minor change. Or maybe not if there is a specific Swiss Privacy Law (and not merely custom and provisions in other laws).

    7. Re:Swiss independence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Swiss signed the Berne Convention.

      Let's everyone think about that for a moment. Those of you who received an education in the United States can consult a map.

    8. Re:Swiss independence by redelm · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Sure, Berne/Bern is in Switzerland. The Federal capital, and capital of the canton. That doesn't mean they signed the convention (although I think they did). The Swiss are famous for hosting things that they don't sign on for. In spite of hosting many UN agencies in Geneva since the beginning, the Swiss only joined the UN in 2002.

    9. Re:Swiss independence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      The Swiss signed the Berne Convention.

      Let's everyone think about that for a moment. Those of you who received an education in the United States can consult a map.

      Hey dickwad, did you know that there are lots of international organizations in Switzerland? Did you know that the Swiss didn't join the UN until 2002? Even though there were significant UN activities in Switzerland?

      Stop being a pompous ass.

    10. Re:Swiss independence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A 'major change' is defined as one that you can get 50.000 people to sign against, in 100 days. There is no further requirement.

    11. Re:Swiss independence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're a douchebag.

    12. Re:Swiss independence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "The Swiss are _very_ independant minded, perhaps even moreso than Americans"

      HAHAHA +1 Funny! Americans + independent minded?
      Most Americans are so "non-independent minded" that they think they are!

    13. Re:Swiss independence by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 1
      I think you're forgetting the old definition of lobbying. From Wikipedia:

      Lobbying is a concerted effort designed to affect influence, typically over government authorities and elected officials.
      In this case, they'd actually have to roll up their sleeves and lobby the people, not just their representatives.
      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
    14. Re:Swiss independence by Bastard+of+Subhumani · · Score: 1

      I know the Swiss are closely related to the Germans, but maybe he was ... joking?

      --
      Only three things are certain; death, taxes, and apocryphal quotations - Ben Franklin.
    15. Re:Swiss independence by mpe · · Score: 1

      I expect the civil suits to be dismissed with prejudice (or whatever the civil code equivalent is) and countersuits for fraudulent prosecution to proceed.

      They should probably also send the Swiss equivalent of the BSA into Logistep too. After all it wouldn't be the first time that an "anti-piracy" entity was enguaging in quite a bit of "piracy" themselves.

    16. Re:Swiss independence by mpe · · Score: 1

      The Swiss signed the Berne Convention.

      It would be kind of ironic if they didn't.

    17. Re:Swiss independence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which still validate the GP point, they will have to "lobby" the peoples to make a referendum/initiative
      (ok, more difficult that to pay a few politics but still doable)

      And yes, I know what I'm talking about....

    18. Re:Swiss independence by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      The Swiss are _very_ independant minded, perhaps even moreso than Americans.

      No, they're very community minded. There's a difference. The average American would just about feel oppressed living in Switzerland (especially if he hadn't been living here for long enough to be granted the "right" kind of residence permit).

  6. In all fairness, by gnarlyhotep · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The "anti-piracy" group didn't violate the privacy laws, they conspired with the prosecutors, who are the ones who may have violated the privacy laws (if a criminal case was not warranted).

    Either way, it's still a gross violation of the spirit of the law, and certainly reprehensible.

    1. Re:In all fairness, by TubeSteak · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The "anti-piracy" group didn't violate the privacy laws, Alright

      they conspired with the prosecutors I guess where you're from, a conspiracy is not a civil & criminal offense?

      If the prosecutors are going to get slapped, so is Logistep and vice versa.
      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    2. Re:In all fairness, by gnarlyhotep · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "I guess where you're from, a conspiracy is not a civil & criminal offense?" Conspiracy is, in almost every jurisdiction, a seperate prosecutable offense related to a violation of the law. It's understood to be illegal to conspire to violate the law, due to the fact that one or more of the conspirators do not actually violate the law.

      In this case, they weren't the ones obtaining the IP addresses under (presumably) false pretenses, nor providing them illegally. They convinced the prosecutors, who have an obligation to the public, to do such a thing. Ire placed solely upon the "anti-piracy" group is misplaced; the bulk of it should go to the prosecutors who were the ones *directly* violating the law and abusing the public trust.

      Did the conspiracy violate a law? yes. Did the conspiracy violate the *privacy* law specifically? no. Semantic difference, but the law is all about trifling details and semantics.

    3. Re:In all fairness, by gnarlyhotep · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Correction: the conspiracy most likely violated the law. I don't know the specifics of Swiss law, nor am I a lawyer, nor do I play one on tv.

    4. Re:In all fairness, by bdraschk · · Score: 1
      Even if a criminal case was warranted, what right do they have to receive information that was gained during investigation of that case?

      IANAL, but as far as i understand, when a criminal charge is filed against somebody, the state attorney has to investigate, but the one who charged does not have any special rights to inquire about the findings of that investigation, at least while it's not yet before a court.

    5. Re:In all fairness, by gnarlyhotep · · Score: 1

      If it were an open criminal proceeding not subject to a quash/sealing order, the information might be avialable to anyone who reviewed the case files. Get the IP, have it presented as evidence, include it in a motion to the court and it's there for anyone who looks to see.

      At least, that's my guess on why they convinced the prosecutors to go forward with a criminal trial.

    6. Re:In all fairness, by techno-vampire · · Score: 1
      I guess where you're from, a conspiracy is not a civil & criminal offense?


      It's possible. I remember reading, once, that there were problems at Nuremberg because conspiracy wasn't a crime in France or the Soviet Union at the time, and it took a little time for the judges from those nations to understand the charge and its importance. For all I know, it might not be a crime in Switzerland right now.

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
  7. Eye Pee by ProfessionalCookie · · Score: 1

    Wait, could you clarify, once more, what this "IP" means???? Sincerely, Confused

    1. Re:Eye Pee by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please look at this wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urolagnia
      It explains everything about "I Pee", "Eye Pee" and "Why Pee"

    2. Re:Eye Pee by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Internet pr0n"? Something must be done to stop these evil IP infringing peoples, by finding they're IPs and stopping them. That way, we can protect our IPs from other evil IP infringing peoples, so there is enough IP to go around and uphold what the internet's true purpose.... distributing all types of IP. .... except for CIP. Those guys can go to prison and make all the IP they want with MadDog and Chris Hanson.

    3. Re:Eye Pee by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IP stands for Irritating (and frequently Ignorant) people, such as those who operate the major entertainment studios and any RIAA/MPAA-like entity.

  8. Re:The Swiss... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Ok, maybe I am feeding a troll here so I am tickboxing AC.
    As an Helvetii and a native of Switzerland I must question: why have you posted this?
    Is it your true feeling? I wasn't knowing of hatred against us existing anywhere really.
    We're actually a pretty great place, please investigate and if you are for true perhaps your opinions shall change.
    You can come visit, too.

  9. What's the bounty for turning in the IP trackers? by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 2, Funny

    I foresee a long wonderful friendship between me and law enforcement as I track down RIAA agents using extreme measures for the bounties ...

    Lock and load, filesharers! It's clobbering time!

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  10. A disturbing trend? by Alexx+K · · Score: 1

    This, along with The Pirate Bay receiving a 4000-page complaint seems to indicate a disturbing trend towards the *AA-style of dealing with file sharing.

    --
    Don't mind the extra X. Alex
  11. Sick of the Swiss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's time! It's time! It's time to hate the Swiss.

    Got a problem with that, Belgium?

  12. EU law too. by oliverthered · · Score: 2, Informative

    IP addresses have just been made private data under EU law too, don't know how that affects civil law cases though

    --
    thank God the internet isn't a human right.
    1. Re:EU law too. by DJ+Decay · · Score: 3, Informative

      Switzerland is not in the EU, so it probably doesn't have much of an effect.

    2. Re:EU law too. by johannesg · · Score: 1

      It doesn't matter, the EU has it surrounded anyway...

    3. Re:EU law too. by G-News.ch · · Score: 0

      We're used to that. Being surrounded. Not much of a problem.

    4. Re:EU law too. by surfi · · Score: 1

      it seems all EU countries have now the can't-sue-me-loophole.. they need the identity of the subscriber to sue him, but can't ask anyone who the subscriber is :)

  13. Kickbacks by Dachannien · · Score: 1

    You gotta wonder whether and how much money changed hands to make these criminal cases happen.

    1. Re:Kickbacks by gnasher719 · · Score: 2, Informative

      You gotta wonder whether and how much money changed hands to make these criminal cases happen. None. All they have to do is go to the police, claim that their copyrights have been infringed to some degree that would make it criminal, and then the police would be supposed to investigate. They tried exactly the same thing in Germany. The only difference apparently was that the German police and judges quickly figured out that the record companies didn't have any intention whatsoever to actually follow through with the roughly 10,000 criminal cases that they wanted the police to investigate, so in Germany the police decided that they have better things to do than wasting their time on filesharers.
    2. Re:Kickbacks by mpe · · Score: 1

      All they have to do is go to the police, claim that their copyrights have been infringed to some degree that would make it criminal, and then the police would be supposed to investigate.

      The police's investigation may well include investigating the complainant. Rather than just passing on the complaint to prosecutors.

      They tried exactly the same thing in Germany. The only difference apparently was that the German police and judges quickly figured out that the record companies didn't have any intention whatsoever to actually follow through with the roughly 10,000 criminal cases that they wanted the police to investigate,

      In other words the German police did actually investigate.

      so in Germany the police decided that they have better things to do than wasting their time on filesharers.

      Those "better things" certainly should have included prosecuting the record companies for "wasting police time" or whatever the German equivalent is. AFAIK this didn't happen.

  14. Weird... by mangu · · Score: 1

    if someone can attack you on the internet, and there is no way to identify who the attacker is

    Wait, wait... Someone posts an anonymous post, complaining that someone else posted an anonymous post... and it gets modded "INSIGHTFUL"!??!?!... (head explodes)
  15. obligatory by circletimessquare · · Score: 1

    in soviet switzerland, YOU sue RIAA!

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
  16. Get a vote rolling? by Dannkape · · Score: 1

    This being Switzerland, where you can the the public voting on anything, as long as you gather 50.000(?) signature, why can't someone "just" campaign to get a vote for sensible copyright laws in the first place?

  17. Or... by DrYak · · Score: 1

    A 'major change' is defined as one that you can get 50.000 people to sign against, in 100 days.

    Or a change of the constitution, those need automatically to be voted on without any signing prerequisite.

    The only problem is that 100 is a rather short delay if you have to collect the signatures during a period like decembre when not everyone is available - this happened with the Swiss equivalent of DCMA that got mentioned some time ago on /,
    At least, our DCMA equivalent explicitly allows DRM and other such protection to be broken if that's done in order to apply fair use (citation/quotes, backup, format shift, etc...)
    The only "bug" in the law is that it forgets to also explicitly authorise the *tools* needed to break those protection (WTF ?).
    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  18. OT - What happened with the Swiss DMCA? by azgard · · Score: 1

    It's offtopic, but does anyone know what happened with Swiss version of DMCA? Was it voted down by people or not?

    1. Re:OT - What happened with the Swiss DMCA? by Ndiin · · Score: 1

      This site should shed light: http://no-dmca.ch/index.en.html

  19. The Math by EdIII · · Score: 1

    I guess for anti-piracy groups any number of wrongs added the wrong the pirate groups commit MUST equal a right.

  20. Holy misplaced decimal point batman by mjwx · · Score: 1

    as long as you gather 50.000(?) signature
    Fifty point zero, zero, zero.
    I think 50 signatures is a little low, don't you. I think you meant 50,000 signatures (also you didn't pluralize signature, but this transgression pales in comparison for the incorrect usage of a decimal point in lieu of a comma).

    mjwx,
    Senior Grammar Fascist.
    Department of anal retentivity.
    --
    Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  21. Holy grammar nazis from hell by don+depresor · · Score: 1

    You know that some countries exchange the use of the coma and the decimal point (just check the regional config in windows and you'll see what i mean), and since he said "here in..." i bet he's from switzeland, wich gives him a good reason to have confused both. Specially considering the correct way in Switzeland would be 50'000 aparently.

    So maybe you should stop being a grammar nazi with someone who doesn't have English as his first language, if those 2 are the only errors he made then i think he did a good job (and spare me about the use of non capital i, please don't burn me for it).

    1. Re:Holy grammar nazis from hell by mjwx · · Score: 1

      The decimal place/comma thing does tend to get to me because I have a scientific/mathematics background (my spelling is nothing to be proud of, I'll admit). Also being an Aussie I am not familiar with the nuances of European dialects (so to me "here in" doesn't tend to flag anything as I often see the English phase "here in lies" used).

      For the record, I regularly deal with Asian clients who's English grammar and spelling skills are normally pretty bad so please permit me the odd eccentricity (because I cant do this at work). I'm kind of the last of the old guard, I was in the grade before the Australian school system changed from the Phonetic system to the "whole language" system so I do carry a small grammar nazi torch.

      Also FTR, I know plenty of Aussies (an English speaking country) who would not be able to match the level of spelling and grammar found in my clients emails so no flaming about the "i" issue as sometimes we are all in a hurry.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    2. Re:Holy grammar nazis from hell by don+depresor · · Score: 1

      Ok, lest make a truce then and get some beers :P

    3. Re:Holy grammar nazis from hell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except that in Switzerland it's 123'456.78 and not 123'456,78. The dot is the radix point so 50.000 is fifty using the Swiss interpretation of radix points and digit group separators...

  22. Not really breaking news here in Switzerland... by StefanWiesendanger · · Score: 1

    Interesting to read this here on Slashdot, and the source was obvisouly some UK news site. Because, here in Switzerland (where I live), it's not in the news, nobody talking about it and I never heard anything about so far ;-)

  23. Re:The Swiss... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As an Helvetii and a native of Switzerland

    Wait a minute! You're named after a printer font? [ducks]

    I wasn't knowing of hatred against us existing anywhere really.

    Well, the gnomes of Zurich aren't very popular in some circles, like EU tax authorities. Swiss banks (and their privacy laws) have aided & abetted many corrupt government officials in enormous frauds.