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Software Tool Strips Windows Vista To Bare Bones

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the if-it-works dept.

Preedit writes "A free download that can cut Windows Vista's gargantuan footprint by half or more is developing a big following on the Internet. vLite is a configuration tool that lets users automatically delete a lot of unnecessary Vista components — such as Windows Media Player and MSN installer — to pare the OS down to a reasonable size. The software is catching on. An InformationWeek story notes that a forum that asks users to suggest new features has drawn nearly 50,000 page views. Meanwhile, Microsoft officials have themselves conceded that Vista is "bloated" and are developing the next version of Windows on a core called MinWin, which is smaller than Vista by an order of magnitude."

28 of 472 comments (clear)

  1. Vista XP is here! by somersault · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm failing to see any reason to upgrade to Vista at all (I don't even like Halo, so Halo 3 is a no no.. and if a lot of games start requiring Vista then I'll just have to move to console gaming).

    --
    which is totally what she said
    1. Re:Vista XP is here! by BrentH · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The GUI is definitely part of the GUI, or were you trying to argue otherwise? The OS is in this case Microsoft Windows Vista in it's entirety, not some arbitrary pieces of it. With Aero being enabled if possible automatically by the OS, and being an order of magnitude more resource consuming than for example OSX and Compiz, the OS is indeed much more sluggish than XP or some others. And let us not talk about the performance benefits of DX10 over DX9. Review and gamesites show time and time again Vista with DX10 is slower when compared to the same game on the same machine with DX9, and the benefits are minimal. Even Microsofts own latest Flight Simulator which was to be a DX10 showcase performs better on XP, and is visually nearly the same (checkout the various FS forums for more anecdotal evidence). Yes, Vista is better than XP in some aspects, but as a whole the OS just offers less than XP for many if not most. The pros are mostly pros on paper where the cons are immeadeately obvious, even for normal users.

    2. Re:Vista XP is here! by Firehed · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I certainly can't think of a better way to manage resources than to make sure there's as much free RAM as possible. It's not like it's two or more orders of magnitude faster than reading from the hard drive or anything.

      Seriously, is anyone going to ever realize that unused RAM is wasted RAM? As long as it's smart about what's being swapped in and when, then so much the better. I'd love to see apps pre-cached.

      I'll give you hard drive space, not that it really matters these days with half a terabyte at under $100. But the rest of the system's resources are not consumed the same way, and as such unused resources are being wasted. I didn't buy 4GB just so I can win a pissing contest about how much RAM my system has free. I bought 4GB so my computer can use it. I don't care how it's allocated so long as it provides me a snappier experience (and it does).

      --
      How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
    3. Re:Vista XP is here! by CambodiaSam · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I've tried it on a multitude of powerful machines, and Vista still can't hack it *overall*. For my recent purchase of a Dell m1730 gaming laptop, I went with XP. Yes, it CAN support Vista, and probably fine, but why would I want to trade 20% of my system resources away for what I see as no gain?

      As the unfortunate soul in my company that has to primarily deal with Microsoft, I was in the unique spot of writing our company's position document on it. In short: Vista is unsupported. There's a lot more than hardware specs that went into that decision. Compatibility, reliability, user interface, etc.

      The true test will be when Vista SP1 is put head-to-head with XP SP3. If Vista can't perform at least EQUALLY as well as XP, then I predict most people will wait the 2 years to see if Windows 7 will be worth it.

    4. Re:Vista XP is here! by crmarvin42 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      is anyone going to ever realize that unused RAM is wasted RAM?
      Of course unused RAM isn't wasted if you're not doing anything. I want my OS to use some ram, but most I want to be used by the applications I'm running on top of the OS. Most people don't do most of their work inside the OS itself. They do their work inside the applications running on top of the OS and if the OS is hogging all of the RAM then their work will take longer as RAM constraints get tight and everything slows down. No OS in this day in age should require 4GB RAM just to make the OS run "snappier"

      I'll give you hard drive space, not that it really matters these days with half a terabyte at under $100.
      This may be fine for desktops, but not for Laptops which make up > 50% of machines sold to individuals these days. The drives available for a reasonably sized laptop don't reach that much storage, and are a lot more expensive at any size. I bought my laptop less than a year ago and the most storage offered was 120GB, I don't want >10% of my drive, or more than half of my installed ram devoted just to the OS.
      --
      Bureaucracy expands to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy.-Oscar Wilde
    5. Re:Vista XP is here! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Right there with you. I've been using Windows Vista Business x64 for about 4 months now. It's been perfectly stable, very responsive (with extremely aggressive disk caching on a laptop due to 4GB of RAM + 2GB SD for ReadyBoost), and compatible with all the software I've run. I turned Aero off because it's a slow, bloated piece of shit compared to Aqua or Compiz, but other than that the only problem is that there's lots of little annoying bugs and the built in DRM.

      If Microsoft would strip out the DRM and fix the plethora of little minor bugs, I would full recommend it to anyone, because it really *is* a nice step up. Not amazing enough to warrant a "BUY IT RIGHT NOW, UPGRADE YOUR HARDWARE IF YOU HAVE TO", but good enough that I'd say "Yeah, go ahead and keep it on that new computer. You'll like it."

    6. Re:Vista XP is here! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I call BS. I am in charge of Vista deployment where I work, there is absolutely no reason for us to move to Vista. Once you've built a custom image with all the crap turned off and disabled it looks and acts mostly like XP except that it performs slower and has a few incompatibilities with some internal business applications. In a business environment throwing $50 per machine for more RAM so you can get the same level of performance as an XP machine is a deal breaker. Considering that the functionality is basically the same as XP it is even more of a deal breaker. Combine that with needing to spend time and money to figure out why a few business apps don't work and you have the ultimate deal breaker. If Vista were cheaper than XP we would probably switch. If it performed significantly better we would probably switch. I have BDD and everything all set up to deploy the custom image I made if the suits ever decide we have to switch and every machine we buy comes with a Vista license so we are ready to go literally on a moments notice, but honestly no one expects that day to ever come. Vista was competing with XP and it lost.

      Oh and one other thing: Search functionality in Vista is a piece of shit. Go back to Windows 2000 and try to find a file on a network share which contains a specific text string within it. Then try it in XP. Finally try it in Vista. Once you have done this come back here and tell me how much MS has improved their search functionality.

    7. Re:Vista XP is here! by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "And if analog video support is removed then why does the S-Video port (analog) on my nVidia card still work?"

      He means VGA when he says analog. And it's supported, but "crippled" so that with many forms of media, performs only somewhat better (540p) than that S-Video port, or is completely disabled.

      Your S-Video port isn't crippled below its full capabilities because in the MAFIAA's eyes, it's already sufficiently crippled to begin with. (Limited to 480i output.)

      --
      retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
    8. Re:Vista XP is here! by s_p_oneil · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And you can say this because you're a graphics/games developer? My web site is http://sponeil.net/, and I know for a fact you're wrong. I've even written an article in a book published by nVidia. How do you think nVidia demos their new features when a new version of their video card comes out? Do you think they shipped the GeForce 8800 and said "Sorry folks, but you'll have to wait a year before you can even see it run a demo showing off any of the new features"?

      When you see a game that supports both DirectX and OpenGL, they run at the same frame rate. OpenGL might be 1FPS slower on Windows because Microsoft won't allow OpenGL to use full-screen exclusive mode. They made that choice because they were going out of their way to sink OpenGL.

      The only real reason NOT to use OpenGL is that ATI has crappy OpenGL drivers. They've been working to fix them, but I'm not sure where they are right now.

  2. Slashdot = Clicks by ynososiduts · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Well they (just got/are going to get) a WHOLE lot more..

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    622677120
  3. Thanks, but by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I'll stick with Gentoo. Load what I use, don't load what I don't.

    --
    No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
    1. Re:Thanks, but by dave420 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But what if there are some things you want to load (say, DirectX 10) which you can't load in Gentoo? Are you supposed to rejoice in the fact you got to choose which components you wanted in your functionality-lacking OS install? Being able to customise an OS install is not as important as being able to use that OS to perform tasks you want. I can't use Gentoo because it doesn't run the applications I need (Adobe, Office, games). Not that I'm knocking Gentoo, I just don't see how your argument is anything but fanboyish nose-cutting/face-spiting posturing, desperately trying to ilicit "hear hear"s from the rest of the slashdot crowd.

  4. vLite will not turn Vista into a usable OS... by QuietLagoon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ... unless and until it removes the draconian, RIAA- and MPAA-friendly DRM from the OS, and returns control of the PC back to the user who bought it.

    1. Re:vLite will not turn Vista into a usable OS... by dave420 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Care to enlighten us to this crippling DRM that is dragging Vista down? As I've yet to be stopped doing anything with any media I have. I rip DVDs, I take off DRM from downloaded tracks, everything I've done on XP and Linux.

    2. Re:vLite will not turn Vista into a usable OS... by MightyYar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think people are upset because it will preempt you from doing these things with next-generation media. DVDs are technically protected, but only the hardware enforces this. People are upset because MS moved some of the support into software, and at such a level that it actually slows things down a bit and makes the OS more complicated even for people who do nothing at all with video.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    3. Re:vLite will not turn Vista into a usable OS... by Experiment+626 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Care to enlighten us to this crippling DRM that is dragging Vista down? As I've yet to be stopped doing anything with any media I have. I rip DVDs, I take off DRM from downloaded tracks, everything I've done on XP and Linux.

      Okay, so suppose I wanted to install a backdoor on your system (this is more or less what DRM is, a way for hostile third parties to exercise control over a computer that trumps the owner's wishes). It'll only sap your system resources by a few percent; you probably won't even notice it's there. And in return, you'll gain the ability to do something completely useless with your system, like how DRM opens the door for you to enjoy "protected media".

      Not a very good deal, is it? Vista's DRM may not be "crippling", but it definitely should be an optional install.

    4. Re:vLite will not turn Vista into a usable OS... by Dhalka226 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I can't play, however, materials that the copyright holder has chosen to restrict to a digital path

      I think many peoples' problem with DRM is the implication of that point. It's the movement to a society where nobody owns anything, and customers become renters subject to whatever whims the licensor wants to make--even if we "purchased" our product before they had those whims.

      In other words, it's the issue of license versus ownership. If I own something, for example my copy of an HD DVD, then nobody has any say in how I view it. I can view it on my computer or my PS3. I can loan it to a friend who can do the same. I can make myself a backup. I can shift the format and put it on my iPod. It's nobody's business but my own.

      The implication of "the copyright holder [choosing to] restrict to a digital path" is that I don't own what I paid for. Here I have, in my hands, an HD DVD. But I don't own that copy of the movie; I have a license, revokable at the holders' discretion, with whatever conditions they want to attach to it at the time of purchase or in the future. Hypothetically speaking, if they could find a technological answer to require me to do ten jumping jacks before the video would play, that would be doable. While that may seem a whole lot stupider than restricting what path I can watch the video on, it's really the same concept. Either the copyright holder has a right to tell me the conditions I can watch his content that I have purchased under, or he doesn't.

      Personally, I think he shouldn't and I care very little for what justification copyright holders in the guise of the RIAA/MPAA/etc use. If the MPAA tries to screw me in that manner, at least I would expect it and understand. They have their own interests and they obviously feel DRM helps them accomplish those. Microsoft, however, did not produce the movies or the protected content, so why are they selling out their customer for the MPAA? At the very least, I will never approve such a move.

  5. Comparing MinWin and Vista doesn't hold up by adonoman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    MinWin is a non-graphical kernel that doesn't do much more than boot up and host a webserver. It's not exactly a full functional operating system, so yes it's going to be considerably smaller.

    1. Re:Comparing MinWin and Vista doesn't hold up by MightyYar · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Ooooo, the pendants are going to get you for implying that Linux uses a "micro" kernel.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
  6. That is a Convenience Some Cannot Afford by eldavojohn · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'll stick with Gentoo. Load what I use, don't load what I don't. This is sage advice for you and I. However, we constitute maybe 0.05% of the populace (I do not mean to be elitist). You may find me on the other side soon in the unwashed 99.95% of the populace as I once enjoyed spending a whole Saturday installing a new Linux distro or "emerging" and acquiring a few new packages I didn't have.

    I do not have this kind of time anymore. The other day I received an e-mail from a friend. He wanted to know how he could get the absolute most out of his hardware for a very specific game he plays (World of Warcraft). I began with recommending plain old Linux and then installing wine and trying to run it. But I soon realized how hopeless this would be as I think he has a nice ATI card that once was top of the line five months ago.

    So I told him to get a fresh XP install and not install anything else on it. Perhaps this MinWin or core of a Windows will satisfy him? Perhaps it will also satisfy me in finding simplicity in an operating system that can run my games and programs that are only for win32?
    --
    My work here is dung.
  7. Not The Operating System by gsslay · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't think it's fair to call Vista a bloated operating system. You look at the list of crud that this tool removes; that's not Operating System, that's application crud that should be optional in the install anyway.

    Just because MS wants it to be part of the compulsory install (all the better to monopolise your computer and online profile) doesn't make it part of the operating system. I mean, come on, what makes MSN Installer part of an OS?

  8. We'll see MinWin in 2010... not by dpbsmith · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yeah, right. A big company's approach to all difficult problems is to imagine a solution for them and create a name for that solution. Problem? Vista is bloated. Solution: create the name "MinWin."

    If Microsoft wanted to reduce Vista's bloat, they'd just reduce it.

    They might, if they had any good faith about it, analyze and SQA vLite and license it or offer and approved version. Or structure the present Vista so that it installs a reasonable core and allows you to "opt in" to the extra stuff.

    What's likely happening is a turf battle between all the managers that want their bloat in the product, are threatened by any suggestions that it be trimmed, and will fight it's being trimmed to the death--or at least for a couple of years when they move on to their next assignment.

    If MinWin happens at all, what will happen is that they'll trim Vista by 20% and then pack on 100% of new bloat.

    --

    "How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!

    1. Re:We'll see MinWin in 2010... not by Hal_Porter · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Microsoft would never offer something like vLite or nLite to end users.

      It's hard enough to test the current limited set of installation options. vLite gives far more possibilities and would therefore need far more testing. Most likely a commercial company that did it would get a reputation for producing unstable software. Microsoft don't have a perfect reputation with the limited options they offer now of course, but offering nLite would make things worse.

      Open source stuff can do this of course, but that's because the people adding the options don't have to respond to clueless people misusing them. I noticed it with wget. The version I downloaded would die on an access violation if I used -np and -L. Which is legal as far as I can see, but the latest build crashes with that command line.

      Now since it's free and open source, I just fiddled with the batch file that called it to work in a different way. But if it was commercial and as widely used as Windows that break would trigger an avalanche of tech support calls.

      The economics are different in commercial software - you're better off offering a limit set of options and making sure you test every combination of them on the few supported platforms. With open source anyone can add an option, anyone can introduce a bug and anyone can fix it.

      In fact I think Microsoft sit in the middle of scale of customizability - somewhere between Linux which is highly customizable and Mac which is almost totally locked down. They do offer embedded versions of desktop OSs incidentally which are more modular and customizable. But those are sold to engineers in very small volumes, and presumably have more expensive support contracts.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
  9. Re:vista ultra-lite - rm /dev/sda1/* by Torvaun · · Score: 4, Insightful

    3 years running AVG: $0
    3 years running Ad-aware, Spybot, and CCleaner: $0

    Now, I don't run Vista either, but saying it's cheaper to buy an iMac is a little disingenuous.

    --
    I see your informative link, and raise you a pithy comment.
  10. MinWin? What's next? by filbranden · · Score: 2, Insightful

    First, they said that 95 was buggy and that 98 fixed them. Then, 98 was too unstable and XP was rock solid. Last year, XP was too old and Vista was new and shiny. Now, Vista is bloated and MinWin is lean.

    Could perhaps Microsoft decide if their products are good or bad?

  11. Um, no. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    From the AVG free version license...

    You can connect your AVG-protected computer to a LAN! You just can't use it to protect the entire LAN (e.g. on your firewall) or install it on more than one computer.

    Of course that's entirely irrelevant because AVG is not the only free AV software around.

  12. Benchmarks by Toreo+asesino · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What I'd be interested in seeing is benchmarks for desktop and 3d performance. It's all very well saying "ooooh look at how much shit it removes!" if it has no actual impact on performance. Most of the things it appears this thing removes will have barely any impact on hard disc space, cpu cycles or memory usage - MSN Installer for instance; removing that will free up a couple of megabytes of hard-disc space at best.

    Anyone got any useful benchmarks?

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    throw new NoSignatureException();
  13. Re:vista ultra-lite - rm /dev/sda1/* by Torvaun · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Amazingly enough, it's all scriptable. They will run when you're not using the machine and they will automatically apply updates. Installing is generally pretty damn fast too.

    --
    I see your informative link, and raise you a pithy comment.