Firefox's Market Share Hits 28% in Europe

Mitchell's Boy Toy writes "Firefox's market share has hit 28.0% in Europe as of December 2007, according to a French web metrics firm. That's a 20.7% increase from the beginning of 2007. 'Finland currently has the highest Firefox market share in Europe with 45.4 percent, followed by Slovenia with 44.6 percent and Poland with 42.4 percent.' IE share fell to just 66.1% in December, a 0.9 point loss in just a month. It should also be noted that Firefox's success could spell trouble for Opera's antitrust complaint: 'Firefox's continued success in Europe may undermine some of the arguments made by Norwegian browser maker Opera in an antitrust complaint filed against Microsoft in December of last year. Opera accused Microsoft of abusing its dominant position in the web browser market by tying Internet Explorer to Windows.'"

Comments

shouldn't undermine Opera's case

[yagu]

The summary suggests that Firefox's success could come at Opera's expense:

'Firefox's continued success in Europe may undermine some of the arguments made by Norwegian browser maker Opera in an antitrust complaint filed against Microsoft in December of last year. Opera accused Microsoft of abusing its dominant position in the web browser market by tying Internet Explorer to Windows.

Isn't the issue with Microsoft more correctly framed that Microsoft is using its monopoly and dominance of its OS to stifle competition in other markets, in this case, specifically browsers? I believe that if Firefox is actually close to 30% market share, Microsoft's position in browsers wouldn't (or would barely) meet the threshold for monopoly. It's their position in their OS. Opera's case shouldn't be at risk.

Re:shouldn't undermine Opera's case

[bunratty]

Opera's saying that it can't compete because users won't download browsers when they already have IE installed along with Windows, which has more than 90% of the desktop OS market share. But wait! 30% of users download Firefox, what's up with that? I guess users will go out of their way to download other browsers, after all. That undermines Opera's case. Oops!

Re:shouldn't undermine Opera's case

[yagu]

The key here is they can't compete... not that they can't get some business. Yes, people may have shown they go out of their way to download a different browser, but if the market is still severely skewed (IMO it is) because of a monopoly abuse, there is a case for a remedy.

Re:shouldn't undermine Opera's case

[hkmwbz]

Actually, MS does and can leverage its OS monopoly. It has done so for many years, to the detriment of other browsers. To this day, many sites still require IE. Opera's complaint does not fall apart since it can be shown that Microsoft has indeed been involved in anti-competitive practices, and the recent IE8 standards switch just proves this point.

Re:shouldn't undermine Opera's case

[Bogtha]

My point is simply that a browser can get 80% or more of the market without being bundled with an OS.

And b.emile's point was that this has only ever been demonstrated when the dominant operating system didn't have a browser bundled with it. The historical fact you point out is irrelevant because of this. You are excusing bundling because the desired outcome was possible before bundling was put into practice — you are begging the question.

There's no guarantee that IE usage will drop to a minority share just because it becomes unbundled from Windows.

It's not about making Internet Explorer drop to a minority share, it's about making browsers compete based on their value rather than whether the dominant desktop OS vendor makes them.

Re:shouldn't undermine Opera's case

[mqduck]

Yes, people may have shown they go out of their way to download a different browser, but if the market is still severely skewed (IMO it is) because of a monopoly abuse, there is a case for a remedy. I don't really know anything about Opera's case, but isn't the more important monopoly to point out, that they have a monopoly on Windows? (werent they supposed to break up?! :-P)

Re:shouldn't undermine Opera's case

[JohnBailey]

I'm not excusing bundling. I'm saying it's not severely skewing the market. If it were, the unbundling would mean IE's usage would definitely drop severely from 70-80% to under 50%. My personal experience with indifferent home users would tend to disagree with you.

So far, Everyone I have installed Firefox for has not switched back to IE, and are very impressed with the plugins and themes, and the spell checker in text fields. And of those who have tried IE7, only one likes it.

If IE was unbundled, then I don't think many people would download it as an informed choice, if anything, people might keep it around for Windows updates, but not much else. There are a lot of IE users, but at a guess, those that don't specifically need it to access a given web page are unaware of alternatives. The number of "IE by informed free choice" users I think is very small.

Re:shouldn't undermine Opera's case

[thannine]

You're partly right here, but only partly. First of all, IE 2 was a very crappy browser, to the extent of being unusable. Also, at that point the web was full of "Netscape standard" quirks, that did not work well with IE.

After that IE got better, and Netscape got worse. But still, had it not been for IE bundling, it would never have gotten 90% market share. It might even have been that Opera would have won the battle, as for some time it was by far the best browser there was. But IE came with the PC you bought, at the time you just learnes that there was this thing called internets. And you could open the internets by clicking the "Internet" icon at your desktop.

There's just no way to compete with that, nor did that have anything to do with the quality of the browser.

Re:shouldn't undermine Opera's case

[argiedot]

Well, that's actually the point. They're using the Windows monopoly to promote IE by bundling IE with Windows. The monopoly is Windows, they're trying to corner the browser market by using their OS monopoly.

What market?

[geoffspear]

Firefox accounts for 28% of all web browsers being purchased? How can I get into the business of selling people a product they can get from free?

Re:What market?

[Joe the Lesser]

I dunno...I'd ask Radiohead.

Opera

[hilather]

Personally I think Operas anti-trust suit is a little ridiculous. Even though Microsoft may sell Windows with IE, how does Opera expect its consumers to download and install Opera without a web browser? Sure you could have someone put it on a disk for you, but its somewhat of a chicken and the egg problem, you need to start with something, and it might as well be a product Microsoft can include in its OS without having to go to a third party. I would be pretty upset if after installing Windows I couldn't browse the net.

Re:Opera

[TheRaven64]

Even though Microsoft may sell Windows with IE, how does Opera expect its consumers to download and install Opera without a web browser? By being OEMs. Every computer needs to come with a web browser, I'll agree, but if IE were not part of Windows then how many OEMs would bundle it? I'd imagine most would ship some cobranded version of Opera or Firefox and add it to their marketing ('comes with full-featured, secure, web browser with 90% more buzzwords than our leading competitor!').

Re:Opera

[edxwelch]

Maybe you should try actually reading Operas complaint:
"...First, it requests the Commission to obligate Microsoft to unbundle Internet Explorer from Windows and/or carry alternative browsers pre-installed on the desktop. Second, it asks the European Commission to require Microsoft to follow fundamental and open Web standards accepted by the Web-authoring communities. The complaint calls on Microsoft to adhere to its own public pronouncements to support these standards, instead of stifling them with its notorious "Embrace, Extend and Extinguish" strategy. Microsoft's unilateral control over standards in some markets creates a de facto standard that is more costly to support, harder to maintain, and technologically inferior and that can even expose users to security risks."

Re:Opera

[AlanS2002]

how does Opera expect its consumers to download and install Opera without a web browser?

Ever heard of FTP?

Re:Incorrect summary

[jrumney]

Its a 20% increase. 28 - 23.2 / 23.2 is approximately 0.2 (20%).

Yeah, But That's 28% in *Metric*

[Doc Ruby]

In Imperial measures, that's how many Libraries of Congress?

Re:Yeah, But That's 28% in *Metric*

[corychristison]

That would be: 7/25 :-)

Re:"French web metrics firm," eh?

[Joe the Lesser]

My web browser gained 3.2% rods to the hogshead, and that's the way I like it!

Bundling is bundling. The real question is....

[Joce640k]

What would Firefox's share be if IE WASN'T bundled.

Microsft's bundling definitely killed off the competition. That the competition has come back is proof of how shoddy IE really is, and that it should have been completely unable to compete with Netscape in a fair market.

You forgot ....

[KillerCow]

Finland currently has the highest Firefox market share in Europe with 45.4 percent, followed by Slovenia with 44.6 percent and Poland with 42.4 percent

... oh. Nevermind.

Re:IE preventing users to get other browsers?

[Xtifr]

That's right. There are no download tools that could possibly exist besides a browser. Before browsers were created, nobody ever downloaded anything. Furthermore, there's no way that an OEM could possibly bundle their choice of browser with a system. If it isn't created by MS, it can't possibly be installed on a Windows system.

Re:Firefox does come bundled, though

[poetmatt]

actually, as much as I don't really care for opera, I can see it doing better if FF gets dominant market share due to people then making websites that aren't IE optimized. When all browsers are created equal its just flavor preference. In those situations I suspect that FF and Safari will be tied for dominant browser (just my own prediction)
Additionally if I remember right early versions of opera had problems rendering things right as well, which would be resolved by IE taking a nosedive into some concrete.

Opera is selling a product?

[hkmwbz]

I really don't feel bad for Opera. I mean, they're in a market selling a product where alternatives exist for free - and really good alternatives.

Huh? Opera is a free download for PCs. As for mobile, Firefox isn't even able to compete there (and Opera Mini is free).

Re:Opera is selling a product?

[bunratty]

You're missing one critical but important point: Apple does not hold a monopoly on the mobile market with the iPhone as Microsoft does with Windows in the desktop market.

Re:Opera is selling a product?

[ozmanjusri]

Except it won't really compete since it will be slower than all other mobile browsers. It will require an extremely high-end phone

WTF?

Where did that little bit of FUD come from? I'm using Firefox Mobile on my Nokia N800 right now, and it's very responsive. The Nokia only has a 330MHz OMAP processor, which is a slower than most Windows Mobile phones, let alone being "extremely high-end".

NOTE: Here is the actual report

[SplatMan_DK]

I tried to submit this story to Slashdot some 6-7 hours ago, when it was still not mentioned. So I happen to have the link to the original report :-)

Relaunch of Mozilla Firefox's visit share in the European countries at the end of 2007

For more information about XiTi in general, visit their corp. homepage.

:-)

- Jesper

Re:here's a zinger for you

[SplatMan_DK]

Okay for all the complainers out there, consider this. If Windows didn't come with a web browser at all, how would you go to the site to download Firefox or Opera?
You are joking, right?

The presence of a working browser and a working internet connection is *NOT* a requirement for installing software.

I have a ton of software (including an FF installer) on my USB key, I have a CD with the typical software I need when I visit friends and family who require help with their computers, and if all else fails I buy a computer magazine from the closest newsstand or store. No problem at all.

If you could not get software (or a browser) at all without internet+browser, where would your OS even come from to begin with? Do you think is it impossible to install Windows/Linux+FF on a machine with a blank harddrive using a CD?

And has downloading software by using another computer become so unfashionable that I am the only one left on the entire planet using that procedure?
:-)

- Jesper

According to latest statistics from France..

[Colourspace]

There are 3.7 Billion Firefox users in Societe General alone!

Keep in mind that FF is a freebie.

[Richard Steiner]

Firefox and Mozilla Seamonkey are both outside the original market (which was web browsers that were created as a profit center).

Just because free software which comes from outside the market exists and is starting to penetrate doesn't imply that the market isn't being dominated. MSIE is effectively destroying any attempts to create and SELL a competing web browser. Even Opera is free now. It didn't used to be.

Re:firefox globally around 15%

[Ornedan]

The very high Finnish share is probably explained by the government IT security office making a public recommendation that people switch away from IE a while ago when there was yet another major exploit for it going around. IIRC, Firefox was explicitly mentioned as a good alternative to migrate to.

And Oceania at 31%

[NotZed]

Has a map of the whole world, not just a small part of it:

http://www.news.com.au/technology/story/0,25642,23136815-5014239,00.html

Phhht

[Iron Condor]

Twenty eight percent.

Firefox is as popular in Europe as GW Bush is in the US.

And they both think that gives them some kind of mandate...

MS killed the browser market.

[jotaeleemeese]

Opera and Netscape used to be paid for products, but MS's monopolistic dominance in the OS field allowed them to give the browser away for free.

Microsofties will go all wobbly on their knees reminding us that IE was better than Netscape, but when your knees are wobbling you are most likely to miss the point: MS killed the incentive to produce a browser, the only way to "compete" was to give the browser away for free, the cost of producing such software was swallowed by MS, making it impossible for anybody else to compete in a level playing field, unless they worked gratis.

In an alternative universe where MS is ethical and the US's DOJ is fair, MS would have priced the browser realistically, Netscape would have died because it was shit and a multitude of companies would have entered the business providing innovation and reinvigorating the browser market.

The only way to re-establish some degree of advancement in the browser arena was for other people to give their work away for free. Any market that relies on handouts is no market at all. Thanks to MS for the favour... not.

Re:Firefox does come bundled, though

[Bert64]

Actually, quite a lot of the sites i see advertised in spam require IE!

Accents

[marcosdumay]

I don't know if you are serious about that, but the GP's accents aren't wuite right.