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RIAA Wants Songwriter Royalty Lowered

NewYorkCountryLawyer writes "Lest there be anyone left who believes the RIAA's propaganda that its litigation campaign is intended to benefit the 'creators' of the music, Hollywood Reporter reports that the RIAA is asking the Copyright Royalty Board to lower songwriter royalties on song file downloads, from the present rate of 9 cents per song — about 13% of the wholesale price — down to 8% of wholesale. Meanwhile, the big digital music companies, such as Apple, want the royalty rate lowered even more, to something like 4% of wholesale. So any representations by any of these companies that they are concerned for the 'creators' of the music must henceforth be taken with a boxcar-load of salt."

36 of 343 comments (clear)

  1. You're assuming... by NixieBunny · · Score: 4, Funny

    that anyone had any doubt that the RIAA were anything but money-grubbing middlemen.

    --
    The determined Real Programmer can write Fortran programs in any language.
    1. Re:You're assuming... by macdaddy357 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      RIAA: Recording Industrialists Against Artists.

      --
      How ya like dat?
    2. Re:You're assuming... by TheLink · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If they actually use the "Save the Artists" thing then maybe someone should sue them for _fraud_ just to publicise the issue and drop the case quietly before it goes to court ;).

      --
    3. Re:You're assuming... by fangorious · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Many artists have sued their labels for unpaid royalties. Some have even sued to get their share of p2p lawsuit moneys. It doesn't get widely publicized.

    4. Re:You're assuming... by The+Mighty+Buzzard · · Score: 5, Funny

      You passed up a chance to use a recursive acronym (RIAA is Against Artists) in a /. post? Are you feeling OK?

      --
      Violence is like duct tape. If it doesn't solve the problem, you didn't use enough.
  2. Why the RIAA? by Kelz · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Why is the RIAA even able to set any sort of financial policy for its parent companies? I thought it was just a big bunch of lawyers! Should not each recording studio set compensation based on the contracts it signs with the artists?

    1. Re:Why the RIAA? by Tablizer · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Why is the RIAA even able to set any sort of financial policy for its parent companies? I thought it was just a big bunch of lawyers! Should not each recording studio set compensation based on the contracts it signs with the artists?

      I heard it was too complicated to do it that way. Maybe with modern computers it may be easier. It used to be that radio-stations etc. would simply[1] keep a list of each song they played and periodically handed that list over to the RIAA, who applied a set even percentage and collected corresponding fees to be distributed. It worked well for several decades. In fact, I think that patents should follow a similar technique so that you don't get slammed with surprise royalties.

      [1] With random auditing.

    2. Re:Why the RIAA? by RalphBNumbers · · Score: 4, Informative

      This isn't the RIAA setting any sort of internal payment policy for it's members.
      This isn't even a matter of paying the artists at all.

      This is a matter of the NMPA (an industry association of publishing companies representing composing artists), and the RIAA (an industry association of record labels representing performing artists) squabbling over which middle man ought to get a bigger cut of online sales.
      How much either of them passes on to the artists they supposedly represent is a separate issue.

      And, meanwhile, the DiMA (an industry association of online music sellers) is chiming in to suggest that they both keep their prices low to speed growth in online sales while CD sales tank.

      --
      "The worst tyrannies were the ones where a governance required its own logic on every embedded node." - Vernor Vinge
    3. Re:Why the RIAA? by RobBebop · · Score: 4, Informative

      The RIAA is a trade group, and it wouldn't surprise me if they had some kind of power/influence written into all the contracts they administer to control where royalties are paid.

      They do have some goals, which are not *all* related to litigation.

      • (this one is litigation) to protect intellectual property rights worldwide and the First Amendment rights of artists;
      • (this one is self-preservation) to perform research about the music industry;
      • (this one is lobbying the nation) to monitor and review relevant laws, regulations and policies.

      So you see, they do lots of things besides sue their customers.

      --
      Support the 30 Hour Work Week!!!
    4. Re:Why the RIAA? by shark72 · · Score: 5, Informative

      "I heard it was too complicated to do it that way. Maybe with modern computers it may be easier. It used to be that radio-stations etc. would simply[1] keep a list of each song they played and periodically handed that list over to the RIAA, who applied a set even percentage and collected corresponding fees to be distributed. It worked well for several decades. In fact, I think that patents should follow a similar technique so that you don't get slammed with surprise royalties."

      Huh? The RIAA doesn't deal with terrestrial radio... that's ASCAP and BMI, who represent artists. That's the beauty of terrestrial radio royalties... it goes directly to the artists. The record companies don't see any of it.

      This is exactly why the RIAA wanted to get its paws on the royalties from streaming radio. They've missed 90 years of radio royalties; thus, they successfully got the rules changed. Thus was formed SoundExchange. The artists still get much (or most) of the money, but now the record companies line up for their share, too.

      --
      Sitting in my day care, the art is decopainted.
    5. Re:Why the RIAA? by jc42 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I genuinely believe that geeky kids get more upset these days by having to pay for mp3s than they do if their president lies to them in order to start a war for his self interest.
      get some perspective.


      Well, one perspective is that they differ only in the details. The most famous example of this perspective is Clausewitz's remark that war is just a continuation of diplomacy by other means. Others have observed that the same principle applies in business, where there are various persuasion tactics ranging from misleading advertising, "industry standard" contracts and legal threats to actions like mayhem and murder of competitors. Which are used are determined not by any morality or ethics, but by what the local government permits.

      With both the Bush gang, and the RIAA, the motive behind their actions are essentially the same: power and profit. In both cases, they openly say that they consider themselves just businessmen, trying to maximize their profit. Bush, Cheney et al have done this by fomenting a war, as a way of channeling funding to their crowd's companies such as Haliburton. The RIAA uses shady legal tactics and bribery of politicians to control the distribution of funds away from artists and into their corporate coffers.

      You can obviously argue that wholesale killing of innocent bystanders is something different from suing grannies. But to the top managers of these enterprises, this isn't really their concern. Businessmen have often used tactics like extortion, torture and killing when the legal system permits it. Bush's people are allowed to kill to get their way, so they do that. The RIAA is constrained by government regulation (criminal law) from doing this, but they are allowed to use the legal system as they have been doing, so they do. In each case, they're merely using the most extreme persuasion techniques that the legal system permits them to use. If the RIAA knew they could torture or kill people with impunity, that's what they would be doing.

      See Russia for a nice example of how this works. Russia has been a "free and unregulated market" for over a decade now. It's open knowledge that extortion, torture and murder are now standard business practice in Russia, and the reason is simple: The government has stopped regulating such actions when done by businesses. At the other extreme, business in much of Europe is now suffering from the fact that some of them have actually been prosecuted for bribing politicians. In the US, political bribes are called "campaign contributions", and they're legal. So corporations like the RIAA might not be able to send in thugs to rough up "pirates", but at least they can pay money to politicians to get the laws changed so that more money gets channeled away from the artists and into the corporate coffers. And so far, they haven't been punished for scatter-shot lawsuits, so they use that tactic.

      Actually, of course, there are a lot of politicians and businessmen with functional morals and/or ethics. But we're not talking about that kind of people here; we're talking about big, successful trade organizations and big, successful governments. These are usually not constrained by anything except the punishments they might receive for their actions. And that's really the only thing that explains differences in their tactics.

      (It can be fun to look at "perspectives". ;-)

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
  3. Wither Lars? by GoodbyeBlueSky1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I eagerly await the insightful words of Lars Ulrich, Dr. Dre, et al to explain to me why pissing off the people who were perfectly willing to pony up good money for concerts, T-shirts and, yes, full retail priced CDs was worth it in the end.

    --
    why? forty-two.
    1. Re:Wither Lars? by Trogre · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And Bono. Don't forget Bono.

      On second thoughts, perhaps we should :)

      --
      "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
  4. Is anyone surprised? by ISurfTooMuch · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Lest anyone be at all surprised, remember that RIAA stands for the Recording Industry Association of America. It represents the record companies, and that's all it represents. If these companies could find some legal way to hold a gun to a songwriter's or musician's head and take their work at gunpoint, they'd do it.

    I'm not going to insist that digital downloads are the future and that all artists should follow Radiohead's lead, but any artists who care at all about their future had damn well better examine every single alternative when figuring out how to produce and distribute their music. Things are changing, and you can be sure that the record companies are going to be looking out for their best interests. Artists had better do the same, or they're going to get screwed.

  5. LAWL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is too funny they want more money in compensation for each illegaly downloaded file yet want to give less to the artists that make it...

  6. Royalty or Loyalty? by syousef · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...because they're going about the right way of lowering the loyalty rate of artists and customers alike.

    --
    These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
  7. Re:Yet another reason for artists to go it alone by piltdownman84 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Aren't they supposed to be on the artists' side?

    The Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) is the trade group that represents the U.S. recording industry.

    Reducing costs is good for the Industry.

  8. RIAA - The red herring? by Kovac.anar · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the RIAA essentially a representative group formed with the intent of pushing forward goals and legal issues for the major record labels?
    If so, then they are doing an admirable job of inspiring people to direct ire and hared towards the constructed organisation rather than to the parent companies.
    It isn't often that I see people complaining about Sony or BMG (Comparatively speaking).
    It always seems to come down to that nasty RIAA.

    Well done indeed.

  9. Seen same with H1B issue by Tablizer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The H1B issue is the same way: lobbyists squirm and wiggle to bend statistics and magnify (or make up) anecdotes to sell the idea that there are not enough citizen programmers or not good enough citizen programmers and therefore the industry needs H1B's in order to prevent an economic collapse. It is all just a ploy to get cheaper labor. This is what happens when business lobbyists have more power over legislators than voters. It's that simple.

  10. Re:Yet another reason for artists to go it alone by syzler · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Aren't they supposed to be on the artists' side?

    Yes, just not the artist you thought. They are really on the side of the con artists (I.E. the corp backers).

  11. Record Companies Victimized by flaming+error · · Score: 4, Funny

    music publisher catalogs have increased in value due to steadily rising mechanical royalty rates and alternative revenue streams made possible, but not enjoyed, by record companies. Those dastardly songwriters have too long been taking unfair advantage of the RIAA's clients. They take a whopping 8% of royalties just for creating the product!

    Now the record companies, who created the internet and invented downloading music and streaming audio, have seen their take of the pie stay the same, whilst freeloading music creators are actually making more.

    I shall write to Orrin Hatch about this...
  12. RIAA bad, Apple... by martinX · · Score: 4, Funny

    Now the RIAA is a bunch of money grubbing pricks, but I can't believe Apple would have anything to do with ... HEY LOOK! OMG! New AirBooks are OUT!!!

    --
    When they came for the communists, I said "He's next door. Take him away. Goddam commies."
  13. Re:Yet another reason for artists to go it alone by urcreepyneighbor · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Stupid pigopolists. Eh. That's too close for "capitalist" for my liking. What you've got is a cartel that's trying to keep itself alive. True Capitalism - I'm talking Ayn Rand style Capitalism - would laugh at this pathetic copy.

    Aren't they supposed to be on the artists' side? The RIAA? No.... It's the Recording Industry Association of America. Keyword is "Industry".

    Trust me: the industry can find a thousand people to write crap like this:

    Oh baby, baby
    Oh baby, baby
    Oh baby, baby
    How was I supposed to know
    That something wasn't right here
    Oh baby baby

    This blatant money-grab is just one more nail in their coffin. Yes, but you didn't kill the bastard before putting him in the coffin! Duh! He's banging and screaming and pissing & shitting himself senseless - because he knows, unless someone rescues him, he'll die soon. ;)

    More artists will find ways to sell directly to the public, Well, the ways already exist.... It's easy for a new artist to go this route, but for an established band with contracts and whatnot... notsomuch.

    For the record, one of my all time fav artists does this. Ayria. She's cute, too!

    or form their own collectives with their own interests at heart. ooh, goodie! How long until they become just as bad - or worse - than the RIAA? Seriously, this tendency of people to group themselves.. is boring... and annoying.

    Of course, that's how the RIAA started, Wait, hold on! You KNOW that has happened in the past and you want to repeat it?!

    What?! Should we try Communism ONE MORE TIME because THIS TIME we'll "do it right"? Ha. Come on. ;)

    but it is well past its usefulness and needs to be replaced. Eh. The RIAA will continue to exist, in some form, for a long time. The fangs need to be removed, tho.
    --
    "The fight for freedom has only just begun." - Geert Wilders
  14. Re:Yet another reason for artists to go it alone by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They are constantly beathing that drum, claiming to be looking out for the "artists, songwriters, [and] musicians" but that's just propaganda. If they admitted they were just looking out for record company executives, it wouldn't go over as well. Here they have shown their true colors.

    --
    Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
  15. Going the Way of Nine Inch Nails? by webword · · Score: 4, Informative

    Nails frontman [Trent Reznor] urges fans to steal music

    "Steal it. Steal away. Steal, steal and steal some more and give it to all your friends and keep on stealing," Reznor, who has been dubbed the Ralph Nader of the music industry, said.

    Steal NIN music too? He steals he says. Read that article. Interesting.

  16. That's it... by Fuji+Kitakyusho · · Score: 4, Insightful

    From now on, I'm pirating everything, and I'll mail some money to the band.

  17. Re:What if the royalty was negative? by timmarhy · · Score: 5, Informative
    "Imagine if musicians had to pay out of pocket for every song that was distributed"

    ROFL, oh but THEY DO!!!! the traditional RIAA contract has the artist paying for all the costs out of their royalties. essentially companys RIAA represent take an artist onboard and fund the album, making the artist pay it all out of their royalties at an inflated price as well as taking their cut of the profits, so if an artist is very lucky they might walk away not owing them money... studio's are a pit of snakes, make no mistake.

    --
    If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
  18. 8/13 = 62% by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Cutting 13% down to 8% is a 38% reduction.

    So everyone else's cut is going up, even though the songwriter's costs and work are the same. But the rest of the "value" chain to the consumer (which now is composed mostly of the consumer, recommending and trying to share the content) is drastically reduced in cost and increased in availability of inventory (which was typically paid off according to plan many years ago).

    --

    --
    make install -not war

  19. An Explanation of The Issues by Crypto+Gnome · · Score: 5, Insightful

    At issue is the so-called "mechanical royalty" -- payments made for copies of sound recordings, including those made by digital means, to songwriters and publishers. Basically, the problem is, when you're speaking DIGITALLY, there is no difference between "copying a recording" (ie download for the purposes of saving a file) and "performing a recording" (download eg streaming, for the purposes of audio playback in the physical world).

    For This Reason, New Media Players (Apple, Yahoo, Napster, etc) argue that the "mechanical royalty for copyright" should be lowered significantly on digital downloads (specifically, to 4%).

    RIAA etc argue the fee should be dropped only slightly (specifically, only to 8%).

    RIAA are arguing to maintain profits for their (arguably, exceedingly dinosaur-like) "distribution model".

    "While record companies have been forced to drastically cut costs and employees, music publisher catalogs have increased in value due to ...... alternative revenue streams made possible, but not enjoyed, by record companies." ie "we see you've worked out new ways to make profits, so pay us (even more) money even though we have not contributed anything new to the equation".

    The New Media crew are arguing the way of sanity and intelligence. (ie trying to push the 'downloads are effectively performances, because there's no way to differentiate' argument)

    New-media companies want the rate to go even lower, contending that it should disappear when music is digitally streamed.
    Every time you hear something new from the RIAA it boils down to "someone needs to shovel more money into our bank accounts, without any additional effort or contribution on our part. Our business model dictates an infinitely increasing profit margin, for infinitely decreasing effort, ad-infinitum."

    And the same can be said of those ISPs who intend to violate the concept of "net-neutrality". ("someone's making money , and the bits cross our network. Ignore the fact we already billed someone for those bits, I want to directly bill BOTH the producer AND the consumer of those bits, even though they have NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with me").

    That's not a business-model, that's a fantasy.
    --
    Visit CryptoGnome in his home.
  20. Re:Yet another reason for artists to go it alone by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 5, Informative

    What?! Should we try Communism ONE MORE TIME because THIS TIME we'll "do it right"? Ha. Come on. ;)

    You should be careful about such comments. One would think you were talking about "communism" the economic model since you are comparing it to capitalism, instead of "communism" the political ideology. This is important because "communism" the political ideology generally tries to apply extreme "socialism" as economic policy and has basically nothing to do with "communism" the economic model aside from the political parties that misleadingly stole the name. This is also important because "communism" the economic model is alive and well for those who apply it to small communist cell sizes. The most common example of this would be the family unit, which comprises a communist cell by buying and selling goods and services collectively (although these cell sizes are shrinking in the US). Other applications of communism that have stood the test of time are monasteries, co-op housing, co-op stores, credit unions, municipalities, etc.

    Most Americans seem to have some messed up ideas about communism and socialism, both as political ideologies and as economic models. For example, public schools are an example of socialism, although those schools seem to have failed to educate their students as to that fact. Most people with an even cursory education in economics, however, will tell you that communism, socialism, and capitalism are all present in every economy in the world and what usually leads to disaster is when an economy becomes extremist and failing to balance these aspects. Extreme capitalism is just as unstable and disastrous as extreme socialism or extreme communism... that is the lesson we all should have learned from history.

  21. Re:Yet another reason for artists to go it alone by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The only thing they know to do is lose money.

    --
    Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
  22. Re:Yet another reason for artists to go it alone by Foobar+of+Borg · · Score: 5, Funny

    And yet the RIAA is still chugging along.
    To use a car metaphor, it's like that car you got from your parents on your 16th birthday. It keeps getting worse and worse, but keeps chugging along and won't actually die. You're 21 years old and in college, so you can't buy your own car and your parents won't get you another one unless the one you have dies. And it's so shitty, you can leave the keys in the ignition, the door wide open, and a sign on it that says "free car", but no one will steal it. And it *just* *won't* *die*.


    That's the RIAA.

  23. Artists are sick of it already... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This post was on the front page of a torrent site:

    The Flashbulb wrote: Hello listener...downloader...pirate...pseudo-criminal... If you can read this, then you've more than likely downloaded this album from a peer to peer network or torrent. You probably expect the rest of this message to tell you that you're hurting musicians and breaking just about every copyright law in the book. Well, it won't tell you that. What I would like to tell you is that my record label understands that a large portion of people pirate music because it is easier than buying it. CDs scratch easily, most pay-per-download sites have poor quality and ****ty DRM protection, and vinyl is near impossible to find or ship without hassle. In many cases I wonder why people buy CDs at all anymore. A few like the tangible artwork, some haven't adapted to MP3s yet, but most do it because they have a profound love for music and want to support the artists making it. Kind of restores your faith in humanity for a moment eh? So, now what? Like the album? About to go "support the artist" on iTunes? Well, don't. Alphabasic is currently in a legal battle against Apple because NONE of our material (Sublight Records included) receives a dime of royalty from the vast amount of sales iTunes has generated using our material. Want to buy a CD just to show your support? If you don't particularly like CDs, don't bother. Retailers like Best Buy and Amazon spike the price so high that their cut is often 8 times higher than the artist's. Besides, most CDs are made out of unrecyclable plastic and leave a nasty footprint in your environment. If you do particularly like CDs, buy them from the label (in our case, alphabasic.com). After manufacturing costs are recuperated, our artists usually receive over 90% of the actual money coming out of your wallet. In addition, all of our physical products are made out of 100% recycled material. Want to show your support? Go here and browse our library of lossless, DRM-free downloads. Already have that? Then feel free to donate whatever you want to your favorite artist. 100% will go directly to them. Hell, you can even donate a penny just to thank the artist. If you really like 'The Flashbulb - Soundtrack To A Vacant Life' and want to show your support without it going to greedy retailers, distributors, and coked-up label reps, then click the button below. http://www.alphabasic.com/index2.htm If you send us your mailing address, Alphabasic may occasionally send you various goodies (overstocks, stickers, even rare CDs) in appreciation and encouragement for your support. Thanks for reading. Who knows if my little business plan here will work to fund new releases, but even failure is better than the crappy label/distributor/retailer system musicians have suffered from for over 50 years. We hope you enjoy the music as much as we do releasing it. Finally, if you plan on sharing this release, please include this file. The only reason it is here is to show the listener where he can support his favorite artists! Benn Jordan CEO - Alphabasic Records
    Even more interesting: it was on the site as a "free leech", meaning it did not count toward your download ratio. There were about 2700 seeds. even if 0nly a tiny percentage send a little donation, the artist will be doing better than through the normal distribution channels, with the added bonus of getting it out to more people, which is what I believe true artists are in it for.

  24. Re:Yet another reason for artists to go it alone by Eskarel · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Communism according to Marx is the small town writ large. That's it. No magic, no huge government aparatus, no secret police, it's just the idea that as we evolve as a society we will find a way to interact economically with each other in a billion person city the way we did when we had a town of 20 and we knew everyone. It's basically ethics without observation.

  25. Streaming not Sales (was Re:Wrong again) by w3woody · · Score: 4, Informative
    Sometimes it is better to go to the horse's mouth than requote an article written by a third-party who doesn't know the difference between a sale (such as the sale of a song through Apple's iTunes store) and streaming audio (such as what you stream through Yahoo! Music's Internet Radio). What the DiMA (which includes Apple, YouTube, and Yahoo) has asked for is to clarify the rules such that mechanical royalties for Internet streaming (not Internet sales) is paid using the same formula as for broadcast on the radio.

    To quote from the brief:

    For the reasons briefly set forth above, DiMA believes that "interactive streaming" of a sound recording does not constitute a Digital Photograph Delivery under Section 115 of the Copyright Act. In their written direct cases, by contrast, both NMPA and RIAA have proposed rates and terms to apply to internet streaming, arguing that Section 115 is triggered by such activities.

    This assumption, made by the RIAA and NMPA, that streaming is the same as selling a music track, is what triggered a whole stream of Slashdot stories about how the RIAA was trying to destroy Internet radio, such as: Webcasters Call Bunk on SoundExchange DRM Ploy.

    This would have nothing to do with Apple iTunes Music Store sales of music, which are considered the electronic delivery of an album.

    As a side note, I'm astonished how quickly so many otherwise intelligent Slashdot readers seem to pile up on one side or another of an issue, such as Internet Radio royalties, depending on how the winds happen to be blowing--because they fail to think for themselves. If supposedly more intelligent than average Slashdot readers are this easily manipulated, then God help us during tomorrow's Super Tuesday elections...
  26. Re:There goes the argument.... by mfnickster · · Score: 4, Funny

    No, that'd be the Kosher Nostra!

    --
    "Slow down, Cowboy! It has been 3 years, 7 months and 26 days since you last successfully posted a comment."