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Canadians Wary of 'Enhanced Drivers Licenses'
Dr.Merkwurdigeliebe writes ""Enhanced drivers licenses such as those to be issued in B.C. will lay the groundwork for a national identity card", federal privacy commissioner Jennifer Stoddart said yesterday.
Stoddart said the licenses, touted as an alternative to a passport for the purpose of crossing the U.S. border, closely resemble the Real ID program in the United States. She characterized that program as a way of introducing a "type of national identity card" for Americans."
You can get about without a passport or driving license, you can purchase goods without using your SmartCard - but why make life so difficult for yourself when, with just a couple of concessionary biometric measures, you can take the easy path?
There's never any need to convince the masses that something is a good idea; just convince the individual that it's not worth fighting.
Am I preaching? Hell no. When these things get introduced in the UK I'll grumble like hell and offer my vocal support to anyone who opposes the new identity scheme (whatever guise it eventually takes), but at the end of the day...
Meta will eat itself
The article says that these are basically standard licenses, but they include RFID chips.
Is anyone else worried about all these RFID chips that companies and government seem to love putting everywhere? Credit cards? Products? Licenses?
They do realize that RFID is not secure, right? And that anyone with a few bucks can buy or build an RFID reader and cloner? So basically, the validity of your RFID scan is zero. Anyone who can counterfeit a license today will be able to counterfeit a license tomorrow, as long as they do a little research and invest in some extra equipment. It's a business - those who can't (or don't) adapt will die out, and those who do adapt to to the new market will succeed. But it will not be going away any time soon. RFID does not make anything more secure.
Nemilar http://www.techthrob.com - Visit Me!
... just use a passport. I'm surprised the government hasn't thought of this.
Reduce, reuse, cycle
Could someone please explain to me, why Americans, Canadians, Brits and Australians are so afraid of a national ID card?
I live in continental Europe in a country where everyone is expected to be able to identify himself to the police at any time, in a country where there's a central voter register and if you move, you are expected to register yourself with the local town inside of 3 weeks. That sounds like the total police state, doesn't it?
Lets see how this works out in reality:
[b]Identify yourself[/b]: Usually any official document with picture is ok, in reality this means in most cases your driving license - issued nationally, your national ID card or your passport (which many people have anyway to get to the sea in summer). As most Americans have a driving license anyway, this wouldn't change a lot of things for a good part of the population. The issuers of the driving licenses might need do a little more work checking the identity to prevent issues to the wrong name or wrong dates - but this wouldn't affect the common people.
The benefit of having a national ID card on the other hand is, that there's only a small number of documents used commonly and if you have one, you are identified. No more 'Bring 3 types of ID' stuff. You have your driving license, your passport or your ID card, you are set. If those are good enough for the police, they are good enough for everyone else too (eg banks, insurances, airlines).
As those official documents are quite important, forging those, getting those in wrong names or otherwise messing with them is taken very, very seriously by law enforcement. You don't mess around with your driving license just to get some beer before you should (which wouldn't be a problem anyway, once you get a driving license you're also considered old enough to get alcohol), that would send you quite quickly to jail. This improves the general trust in those documents.
At the same time identity theft a lot less of a problem here. If you need to identify yourself, you show one of those documents and everyone is happy. Should, for instance, a bank teller have doubts about your documents, you'll just be invited for a coffee while the police quickly drops by to check your documents. If it clear, fine, if it doesn't you're in deep deep trouble. To try getting around with a fake identity, you immediately raise the stakes to the level of a federal crime, which in most cases isn't worth the risk to small time criminals.
[b]To the police:[/b] So yes, the police may ask you at any time to identify yourself. If not, they can put you in lock-up for some time (similar to the 24 hours available to the American police if one can trust crime shows) to check your identity. In day to day operation, is seems very similar no matter if there's a national ID card scheme or not. If the police doesn't like your face, they can give you a hard time.
For people without ID, there are some procedures to get identified, but those take time and effort. If you happen to be one of the unfortunates without ID, your ID got lost / stolen / whatever, you do it only once to get a temporary replacement before having the new ones issued.
[b]Central voter register:[/b] So wherever you live, you are forced to register yourself inside 3 weeks. This is done mainly for the voter register, to have an idea who can vote in what district, for the tax man and for the police who likes to have a total control over the citizens.
The voter register is a good thing, it makes fraud and manipulation at the time of elections a little harder - you ain't registered officially in the district, you ain't going to vote for it.
The tax man is unfortunately very unavoidable. No matter if there's a national ID card or not, Mr. Tax man will own you and your data - in Soviet Russia and everywhere else too.
The police might have it a little easier to start up to indulge in their totalitarian police state fantasies if they have a national ID card. But if they don't they just dig into the d
I know drivers' licences are a very popular route for governments to introduce national ID schemes. Put pity the poor citizen who can't/doesn't drive. Will the end result of these be non-drivers effectively becoming non-citizens?
Sure the Chinese have ID cards and sure they execute people. I'm not for any form of ID card, but it seems as though you're insinuating that they're somehow connected, and that's a fairly stupid link.
ID Cards != Execution by lethal injection
Because the ID card act is really about creating a centralised government database that stores all information about you in one place. Not just personal information either - this would be every electronic record that exists about you, like what you buy and where you travel. Some people think this would be overly intrusive, that it would give too much power to the authorities, and that the data might be stolen or lost. (You might remember some recent news stories about government data being lost: this happens quite often.)
However, most people do not understand about the database and do not care about the ID cards, so people who think it's a good idea are in luck. I guess we will see the consequences in twenty years time.
>north
You're an immobile computer, remember?
Bread and circuses, an very old principle.
Germany has ID cards, too. You don't see any people being executed here, though.
...).
Honestly, an ID card *per se* is not a scary thing. The scary thing is the collective databases your government or companies(*) create, and the tracking of phone records, movements (through ID cards, EC/credit cards,
My government (Germany) introduced biometric information into passports through the EU backdoor, when the first attempt failed on a federal level. THAT's scary! The former Secretary of the Interior pulled that trick on us.
(*) Yes, they WILL make the data available to the government, is "asked" to.
Agreed. The Chinese execute people as well as the North Koreans. It depends on the reason behind the issue of the ID card -> if it is a means of controlling the populace a'la Communism = bad idea. If it is a means of keeping track of your population i.e. paranoid US governmant = Bad idea depending on who you talk to. If it is a more efficient means of doing what normal ID docs have done for years = Bad idea depending on who you talk to...
No connection to mass executions...
Seven Days with Ubuntu Unity
If you read the US Constitution, that nice document the current US government ignores, you will see the seeds of government distrust in the US. Simply put, the Founding Fathers knew that governments become corrupt and they sought to head it off at the start, the Constitution defines the rights the people give to government, not what government gives to the people. It puts strict limits on how the government can act. The states were to be powerful entities in their own right.
Unfortunately our courts were supposed to protect us from the government making laws unconstitutional but they failed. Instead being government cronies themselves they let the government run the public and states over. Combined with the public being given the ability to vote for Senators and states lost their ability to oppose the government.
Doesn't mean the people gave in. While many are just fine and dandy with taking government handouts they don't want them in their house. A national id is like inviting them in. Once their in they will suddenly show up for dinner telling you what you can eat, telling you what you can watch or listen too, let alone eventually telling you what doctor your allowed to see.
We give up too much of our freedom already. We do not need a National ID card to prevent erroneous entry on documents we fill out during our days. We certainly don't need a one size fits all easy to create fradulent versions to further identity theft.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
What on earth is this supposed to imply? That id-cards boost unjust trials? You cannot be hinting at the ethical problems connected with capital punishments, since the US uses capital punishment, too. Counterexample: In Germany we have had id-cards since after the war. We abolished capital punishment in 1951 and have a working juridicial system that adheres to the rule of law. So maybe the US should also look at positive examples of countries having id-cards. Your comment was simply polemic.
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You folks have a short memory... the Viet Cong kicked your asses using old rifles and discarded bean cans and a willingness to die. Read up on guerilla warfare sometime. BTW, a trillion dollars in Iraq and lots of missiles and tanks hasn't won it, either.
For that matter, Gandhi didn't use a single bullet, just serious nerve and (American) strategy.
Damn those pesky terrorists
Ho ho! It is to laugh! Have you tried getting a passport lately? The wait is on the order of six months. It's an enormous pain in the neck for something that in no way improves security at border crossings.
A note to the Department of Homeland Security: Terrorists can get passports too.
Paul Anderson
"I drank WHAT?!" -- Socrates
"The American RealID will collapse due to the lack of state support (14 refuse to implement, numerous states refuse to fund, not to mention the inevitable protests)."
What's funny and ironic about this is that the U.S. has had a National ID card for several decades. It's called a Social Security card. Just try to do something -- get a credit card, borrow money (any amount, any reason), get any form of insurance, get a job, get a driver's license -- without giving them your Social Security Number. In most cases it's impossible.