Starbucks Drops T-Mobile For AT&T

stoolpigeon writes "Ars reports that Starbucks is replacing T-Mobile with AT&T as their Wi-Fi provider. AT&T broadband customers will be able to access the service for free. Starbucks card users will get 2 hours a day free. 2-hour, daily, and monthly rates will be lower than they were with T-Mobile. Starbucks says that their previously announced deal to tie in with iTunes will continue under AT&T. For now AT&T isn't offering free Wi-Fi to iPhone users, but says it expects to accommodate them soon. Quoting the article: 'The companies didn't specify exactly when the rollout would begin, only saying that it would take place this spring... [The company plans] to install all new equipment at Starbucks as part of this agreement, so the changeover won't be as simple as flipping a switch.'"

Comments

Hooray?

[Arclight17]

If I want wireless while I'm out and about, I go to Panera or a local cafe that offers it for free....
So BFD if it changes!
I use http://www.wififreespot.com/ to find free wifi when I'm away from home. (No, I don't work for them or get money for it :)

Re:Hooray?

[ScentCone]

If you RTFA, you'll see that people who use one of those Starbucks cards at the register (which you can fill by dropping some cash in it once in a while) will get 2 hours of no-extra-charge WiFi while they're there. Sure you can be a parasite at Panera without buying anything, but it's fairly bad form. Starbucks will get clobbered on bandwidth, but they'll sell some more coffee, and they'll earn a little interest on the $5 everyone will have sitting on those pre-loaded cards.

Re:Hooray?

[tirerim]

How do you get to that website when you don't have wireless access? Seriously, free wifi is great, but unless you plan carefully in advance, it's not always easy to find. Starbucks, on the other hand, is everywhere, so I'm glad that on the rare occasions that I'm willing to pay for wireless it will be cheaper. ($4 for two hours is about on the upper end of what I'm willing to pay; I still want to see a micropayments model, where I can buy 15 minutes for 50 cents. At that point, it would be worth it just to quickly check my email and look something up online.)

Re:Hooray?

[tony1343]

I agree, I go to a Panera. Actually, in the city I live in, the two closest Starbucks to me are both right next to a Panera. People sit in Starbucks and use Panera's WiFi. The one Starbucks is by a University. From within the Starbucks you can pick up multiple free WiFi signals. I do not understand how Starbucks can justify charging. Who actually pays for this? I will simply go somewhere where it is free (and there are multiple other coffee shops that have free WiFi in my city). I always thought this was because they were locked into a contract from before places started offering WiFi and they would eventually offer it for free. Turns out not; they're just idiots (at least in places where there are free signals available).

Re:Hooray?

[amRadioHed]

Why be a parasite? Panera has coffee too. I'm in total agreement with the OP, any coffee shop worth spending any time in already has free wifi. Who needs Starbucks?

Re:Hooray?

[gad_zuki!]

>Sure you can be a parasite at Panera without buying anything,

You might find the definition of parasite to be interesting when it comes to coffee shops.

I read a study (or perhaps a well written rant) about how places that offer unlimited wifi tend to do much, much worse than places that dont. Why? Because people will turn a table into their office and fill up all the seats, thus providing a big disincentive for people to actually go in there and drink coffee and buy a baked good.

I live in a major city and I can picture all the free-wifi places in my neighborhood and I absolutely hate them all. Theyre all packed with kids/students who are myspace addicts and your 9-5'er doing work. There are no free tables. And the best part is that these people are there ALL DAY and I'm sure barely spend 10 dollars, if that. In fact the big free wifi place here recently went out of business. I dont know how they stayed in business. You had 15 people there taking all the seats for hours and buying a 3 dollar product!

So it turns out that if you want to stay in business and sell coffee you need to not turn your shop into a laptop hangout. Even starbucks knows this. They can easily foot any bandwidth cost but they would know their shop would turn into a 'business center' in no time and that will hurt them badly in the end. Instead they want you to buy product and get the hell out. If you need wifi its there but you'll need to pay. Interesting that they are going with the starbucks card approach.

Interesting stuff. Panera suffers from this but your typical panera is much larger than your typical starbucks and all the noise doesnt make it conducive to getting things done like a coffeehouse does.

Re:Hooray?

[Zemran]

any coffee shop worth spending any time in already has free wifi.

I am sitting in the coffee shop of the art gallery in Chiang Mai, northern Thailand, using the free WiFi... Where is Starbucks? (O.K. we have got SB here but who needs it?). As you say, every decent coffee shop now has free WiFi...

Re:Hooray?

[QuantumG]

It all began with the death of table service. Was a time when the waiter would kindly ask people if they wanted another coffee or a snack at regular intervals.. if the customer refused, say, 3 times, the waiter would ask them to either order something or leave - this isn't a library.

But hey, that was back when your coffee didn't come in a paper cup.

Re:Hooray?

[blackest_k]

I wish it was that easy here, the only place with free wifi, that'll be mcdonalds.
I just love the ambiance...

Re:Hooray?

[Jellybob]

You're right in saying that waiting staff over here are paid by the hour, but generally they still rely on tips to make a decent wage - most of them are working minimum wage, at least in the UK.

However, we also have the good sense not to pay a tip if the service was crap - although we do offset that by paying a good tip if the service was excellent. I never managed to understand the theory that people somehow "deserve" a tip just for doing their job.

Re:Hooray?

[geminidomino]

The 3 local shops serve bad coffee and have a horrible attitude, but offer free wireless.

As opposed to Starbucks, which serves expensive bad coffee, has a horrible attitude, then charges you for wireless?

They aren't at starbucks for the coffee. They're there for the oxymoronic "hipster cred".

Re:Hooray?

[aclarke]

There are two schools of thought for eating out. Let's call them the American way and the European way.

In the American way, you sit down, eat your meal, get your bill, and leave. The wait staff is there to get you what you want, and mostly to do it quickly. "Moving tables" is encouraged, and most Americans don't like or want to sit down and wait a long time for anything. They are there to eat, and to get out.

In the European way, you sit down, are brought what you want, and are not pressured for what you want to do next. Your next stage of the meal may not come for another half hour, but that's OK because you are there to enjoy your afternoon or evening, and enjoy your time with family and friends. You may sit down after the meal with a coffee or glass of port, and not be asked anything by the wait staff for maybe 45 minutes, unless it appears that you want more of something. You certainly will not be brought your bill before you ask for it, as the wait staff does not want you to feel that you are being rushed out the door. That would not be relaxing.

When I spend a bit of time in Europe and then come back to North America, I find the attitude in most restaurants, even "higher end" ones, to be rushed and not that relaxing. When my steak is arriving 5 seconds after I'm done my salad, it just doesn't feel right. On the other hand, if you are used to that, and you go to a "European" style restaurant, you may feel like it's too slow and people aren't attentive to your needs.

Your commentary was responding to poor service. When you ask for your bill and it takes 15 minutes to get it, that's poor service. The grandparent was referring to feeling rushed when they're in a restaurant in North America. That's not "good service", that's just being rushed. But it's what most Americans (including you, most likely, and that's just fine) want, so that's how most restaurants are. It's what I want too, when I'm in a rush :-)

Re:'bout bloody time

[djupedal]

T-Mobile has been running a free six-month Hotspot campaign for PSP users since mid-2007...still in effect thru end of March I believe.

it's all about the execution

[abes]

There was a cafe nearby my old school in NYC which I used for doing a large part of my thesis writing. They started off having free wi-fi, but I think got sick of the freeloading (lots of students in the area), and so switched to an hourly-ticket system. Unfortunately whoever implemented the system did a very bad job of it. The problems ranged from making the network really unstable to having to rely on a printer to get your ticket (it's on a frigg'n network .. make a renewal webpage!), to the amount of time allotted (1 hour is not nearly long enough -- especially if someone comes up and starts talking to you).

Which is not to say Starbucks will be doomed. Only that past experience with other systems (esp. counting every hotel and airport I've been to) has shown very few businesses know how to do these things right.

It is *really* nice they're doing away with the pay-system for already paying customers. The amount T-Mobile was charging for access was crazy, and in the end I suspect all Starbucks cares about is getting more people into their store over-paying for the coffee. I have the option of working in Cafes, only I require internet-access. Until now I've been to chea^H^H^H^H thrifty to pay the additional cost (especially since I'm already paying for it at home). I'm much more likely now to spend some quality time in their stores.

You're missing the real story...

[ntimid8]

The main reason for the switch is that virtually every executive at their Seattle headquarters wants or already has an iPhone and they want the corporate discount.

Great news..

[GiMP]

I work from "home" and often head out for a change of venue. I normally go to Barnes & Noble because they have AT&T Wifi which has partnered with Boingo. The nice thing about Boingo is that it is only $20/mo, month-to-month. Both AT&T or TMobile are about $40/mo, month-to-month. Unfortunately, I still ended up paying some nasty fees to TMobile for the few times I've chosen to, or had to work from Starbucks. Now, I'll be able to use both, and thats a great thing, as where I am there isn't a whole lot of other choice. With a typical month including over 40 hours of coffee-shop patronage, a change of venue is much appreciated.

For the 'just use free hotspots' crowd, my area generally has no coffee shops other than at Barnes & Noble and Starbucks. Both charge for their Wifi. We also have Burger Kings and Panara Bread with free internet. Unfortunately my area Burger King's don't have open power outlets and smell like burgers; Panara Bread requests that patrons limit their sessions to 30-minutes, and at least where I am, have had sub-par connectivity.

Ties in very nicely for AT&T DSL customers

[Fencepost]

For quite a while AT&T has offered access to their network to their DSL customers for $2.99/month, but recently they announced that they were dropping that to "free for our DSL customers." So, in addition to McD's, Barnes & Noble and some other locations, you can now get effectively free access at Starbucks as well.

Handy, that.

If I was still paying $20/month to T-Mobile this'd sure be the end of it. What's left in their network besides Borders bookstores?

Headline is completely wrong

[PitaBred]

According to TechDirt at least. Seems they're just going to allow a choice, rather than replace T-Mobile with AT&T. But why let the facts get in the way of a good headline...

Re:Headline is completely wrong

[Lemmy Caution]

The headline is essentially accurate. T-Mobile and AT&T have made an agreement to allow T-Mobile users to continue connecting at Starbucks. They are being "grandfathered in," so to speak. Thus, T-Mobile users don't get hosed, but it still remains the case that Starbucks is no longer working with T-Mobile.

I'm a subscriber to a pretty substantial package of T-Mobile services. I have been happy with their service offerings, and their customer service has been outstanding. I can't help but wonder, though, as they fail to get the iPhone and start losing valuable partnerships like Starbucks, whether the benefits of their excellent service will start to mean less if they don't provide offerings with major partners like Apple. When these kind of alliances create unique opportunities, it is a path to monopoly - think Microsoft.

In the "So What" School here

[rijrunner]

Honestly, I was not even aware that there were still wifi coffee shops that you had to pay for internet access. Is that a Bay Area thing? In the Fort Collins CO area, most coffee shops I have been around have free wifi with no time limits.

Seriously.. small shops have been doing this for years. DSL is down in the $20/month range and a wireless router is cheap. I suspect that the administrative overhead of managing a system like this one for Starbucks is not really worth the effort. Starbucks may have made their money on the T-Mobile deal, but I doubt it. IIRC, it was a $500 mill contract. And, a quick websearch shows a series of price cuts.

Here's one from 2003:

http://www.wi-fiplanet.com/news/article.php/1855971

"In the original story regarding the price drop, Starbucks New Ventures Director Lovina McMurchy is quoted as saying that even the busiest Starbucks shops get about 20 Wi-Fi devices on the network per day. While T-Mobile doesn't release cost information for providing the hotspot, the revenue generated from so few customers is probably not enough to cover costs of a high speed line -- the T-Mobile Hotspots are served by costly T1 lines -- and the revenue sharing between T-Mobile, Starbucks, and HP, which provides some software for the services."

http://www.lockergnome.com/mobile/2006/03/09/t-mobile-answers-the-cries-of-starbucks-owners/

"All the mom-and-pop coffee shops offer free Wi-Fi. In fact, most everyone does except Starbucks. The Seattle-based coffee house gets its hotspot piped in by T-Mobile. It's been reported for years that store managers at Starbucks has been complaining to upper management for a while about losing business because customers don't want to pay for their Internet after forking out $4 on a foo-foo drink."

Here's my favorite:

http://www.forbes.com/2007/02/23/fonbucks-wifi-starbucks-ent_cx_mc_0226fonbucks.html

"FON, a community WiFi provider headquartered in Madrid, Spain, is offering wireless Internet access to Starbucks' latte-sipping surfers for just $2 a day--versus the $10 users pay to sign onto the 5,100 T-Mobile hotspots at U.S. Starbucks (nasdaq: SBUX - news - people ).

Just how does FON plan to steal away Starbucks Internet users? By offering FON wireless routers, also known as "La Foneras," free to anyone who lives above or next to a Starbucks. The routers, which usually cost $40, split an Internet broadband connection into two wireless signals--one for personal Internet use and the second for public use, which can be accessed by anyone within range for $2 per day. The routers' owners get to pocket half of the sign-on fee, and FON takes home the rest."

And I work at a Starbucks...

[Anonymous Coward]

I work at a Starbucks, and have for 4 or so years. It's a great job, provides insurance for us on the treadmill of bachelors/masters programs when the school insurance plain stinks. We get lots of benefits, and a lot of latitude in how we do our job (make people happy above all else).

Now, when it comes to that occasional "I need to check my email" or what have you, the T-mobile price and 'service' is just disgusting. 10$ a day, or 30$ a month?! Yeah, it's that bad. It's not like they have any choices here, do they? Well, yes, they do. All our Subways offer free wifi, as does a popular pizza chain, as does ALL the hotels in our area, as does other coffee shops, as does even the bar.

Yeah, Starbucks is premium and all, and I can understand that. However, what seems simple is to print off the WEP key on a receipt so paying customers have free access. Our server could be easily tied into that kind of setup, in that it would provide no impact on us partners: we see this kind of integration in the drive thru stores, along with the "Bean Screens", and some stores the sticker machines.

And I wouldn't see customers get disgruntled over paying 2$ for a cup of coffee then immediately going to Subway for their email.. We simply don't have the complete package that other coffee houses do.

Re:'bout bloody time-Free reading material.

[netringer]

What B&N doesn't have is any power outlets. I needed a place to get a few hours work done on the road. I have AT&T WiFi with my home DSL. The B&N was about the only place in town. I checked the whole store to see if there was a place to let me work. Not an outlet to be seen. They must use battery powered vacuum cleaners.

Pathetic geek story: I had a battery/invertor box in the car so I dragged in and used that to get me an extra hour to work. It was kinda bad when the battery ran low and started beeping.

At least Panera has outlets. I dunno about Starbucks. I never went for the T_Mobile deal.

Re:wired at public library

[JK_the_Slacker]

Who told you?

I was young, I was stupid, and I was weak. It won't happen again.

Re:Headline is completely right

[node 3]

No, TechDirt is absolutely wrong.

From Starbucks:
In recognition of the many T-Mobile customers who enjoy visiting Starbucks, the Company is also announcing that T-Mobile HotSpot customers will be able to continue to access Wi-Fi services at no additional cost, through an agreement between AT&T and T-Mobile.

T-Mobile's hardware and network are being removed, and AT&T's are being installed. What's happened is AT&T and T-Mobile have a deal (probably at Starbucks' behest) to allow T-Mobile customers to access the AT&T hotspots in Starbucks.

But why let the facts get in the way of a good headline... Indeed...

Re:I visited starbucks

[tuomoks]

Here in Seattle - come and smell the real coffee. But don't go to Starbucks, any corner has a better coffee shop and real cups. And who drinks coffee out of paper or plastic mug anyway?? This city is full of free wifi places, not much reason to pay. Maybe not as good as S.F. but getting there.

Re:'bout bloody time-Free reading material.

[Brobock]

What B&N doesn't have is any power outlets I am about to open a Steampunk inspired coffee shop in the imminent future and have been doing research in this subject. It seems not offering outlets is a strategy. By not doing so, people will stay as long as they have battery power. Once power is exhausted they will leave. This keeps people from loitering way beyond the reasonable limit.

It could be architectural that there are no outlets, or it could be strategic ultimately.