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Whatever Happened To The Joystick?

Ant writes "MSN UK has up an article that looks into the 'downfall' of the joystick: 'Sometimes technology disappears completely, but often it just fades into the background — still existing, still being used and sold and, occasionally, desired, but probably looking wistfully back on past glories. Which neatly described the joystick's steady slide away from its role as THE gaming peripheral to a fondly remembered also ran. But the joystick's tale is a long and convoluted one — and it is worth looking back into its often mysterious and ill-studied history before explaining why it will rise from the ashes like the mythical phoenix.' Seen on ClassicGaming."

26 of 421 comments (clear)

  1. What happened to the joystick? by suso · · Score: 5, Funny

    It broke after playing the 100m dash in Summer Games.

    1. Re:What happened to the joystick? by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Yep. The last joystick I owned was one of the popular 'Thrustmaster 3D' joysticks, with the hats and the buttons and so forth. After a particularly intense session of Doom II, it broke. It was the the third one. After that I got a gamepad-type controller and never looked back.

    2. Re:What happened to the joystick? by Notquitecajun · · Score: 5, Funny

      Now that we're done comparing each others JOYSTICKS....

    3. Re:What happened to the joystick? by bughunter · · Score: 5, Interesting
      The sisters and nieces to this comment really have hit on what was wrong with the joystick in my anecdotal experiences: It broke too often.

      Mind you, the models being praised for durability were indeed up to the task of gaming, but most joysticks sold were not. I went thru three Gravis sticks in two years before giving up and switching to a trackball.

      Generalizing this leverage theme, the length of the lever arm of a joystick poses two problems 1) the mechanical advantage of the users' force leveraged onto the innards made it expensive to make a durable device, and 2) this mechanical advantage also made it difficult to perform precise control movements.

      Starting in the mid-90s, games emerged that required players to do things like select units, lasso groups of units, click on targets and waypoints, aim FPS weapons, etc. The joystick really was not suited to these actions. The much shorter lever arm of a control pad allowed more precise control for aiming FPS weapons, and an absolute displacement interface (mouse or trackball) works better for selecting and commanding RTS units.

      I really have never had better controller than a good mouse. I've used trackballs, control pads, joysticks, touchpads, and wiimotes -- the mouse is still the most natural, least RSI-inducing controller I've used. The touchpad comes close, but it lacks precision and has a higher error rate. Of course, I make exceptions for automobile and aircraft simulators, where mockups of the actual vehicle controls can't be beat.

      --
      I can see the fnords!
  2. Its easy by arkham6 · · Score: 4, Funny

    The joystick met its Doom

  3. Good ones are expensive by Mr.+Underbridge · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Today's games require dual analog controllers and about 27 buttons. A decent joystick set that has all that functionality does exist - but it's primarily relegated to the flight sim community.

    To have dual analog controllers in a large form factor, you'd have to have the joysticks mounted on something sturdy. Recall that back in Atari days, you used your weak hand to stabilize the thing while controlling it with your dominant hand. With two sticks, you'd need a base. And that would be big and not very mobile. And you'd still have to have some design where you could easily press all the buttons without moving your hands. Again, like a flight sim system, but those are very expensive.

    So basically, the joystick got shrunk and put on a handheld controller.

    1. Re:Good ones are expensive by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Funny

      Today's games require dual analog controllers and about 27 buttons. A decent joystick set that has all that functionality does exist - but it's primarily relegated to the flight sim community.

      And that, is why the Wii is selling more games.

      Most of us old geezers don't have the manual dexterity to run those damned controllers. Whereas we can whistfully waggle our Wiis nowadays whenever we wish. ;-) ducks

      Cheers
      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    2. Re:Good ones are expensive by AKAImBatman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Did you ever actually use some of the pre-gamepad joysticks? I expanded on the issues in this thread, but the problem can be summed up in one word: TORQUE.

      There's nothing more "fun" than fighting one's self for stability of the controller. Some of the controllers were extremely hard on the wrists and caused tiring rather quickly. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that the console joysticks were unnatural control devices. When playing my classic game machines, I often do things like hold the joystick sideways in an attempt to find a better grip. (Or at least get gravity on my side. ;))

      Joysticks always worked best in an arcade environment where the rotational forces were absorbed by the heavy machines rather than your hands.

    3. Re:Good ones are expensive by nschubach · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As far as I'm concerned, the Joystick did evolve, into what you called an Analog stick. Now every Playstation/XBox on the planet has two joysticks for every controller and the Wii has one on a "dongle thing."

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
    4. Re:Good ones are expensive by moderatorrater · · Score: 4, Funny

      Whereas we can whistfully waggle our Wiis nowadays whenever we wish And that's why so many grandpas are creepy.
  4. Joysticks are everywhere. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Doesn't each XBox 360 and PS3 controller have *TWO* joysticks on them??

    1. Re:Joysticks are everywhere. by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Doesn't each XBox 360 and PS3 controller have *TWO* joysticks on them??

      Arguably, they're not joysticks per se.

      A joystick was held in your entire hand, those little thumb-twiddlers are just operated with your thumbs in (in my experience) the most hand-cramping configuration you can imagine. I find them almost unusable.

      A true joystick is much bigger, and is grasped in your entire hand -- usually, fairly comfortably. It is very different from what you see on a modern controller.

      Cheers
      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    2. Re:Joysticks are everywhere. by Lust · · Score: 5, Funny

      > A true joystick is much bigger, and is grasped in your entire hand -- usually, fairly comfortably.

      That's what she said.

    3. Re:Joysticks are everywhere. by Pojut · · Score: 4, Insightful

      /agree. I personally have always found the Playstation DualShock design to be one of the most uncomfortable controllers ever conceived...true, the original Xbox controller sucked, but that was rather quickly fixed. For some reason, Sony insists on sticking with a design that causes your hands to hurt after a very short period of time.

      Why the hell is this thing such a popular controller? It feels entirely unnatural.

    4. Re:Joysticks are everywhere. by jollyreaper · · Score: 4, Funny

      > > A true joystick is much bigger, and is grasped in your entire hand -- usually, fairly comfortably.

      > That's what she said.

      Such tiny, tiny hands.

      --
      Kwisatz Haderach
      Sell the spice to CHOAM
      This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
  5. Flight Sims by m50d · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Joysticks were always a niche peripheral really - keyboard/mouse is much better for FPS, and though fighting games use joysticks in the arcade, it's a lot easier to combo with a digital pad (dammit Melty Blood, I pushed down three times, why isn't your dead zone large enough to notice?). I think what the decline in joysticks really shows is the decline in first-person flight sim-esque games - remember when X-Wing/TIE fighter/etc. was the big thing to play? What happened to those days? The last decent game of that sort I remember was Star Trek Bridge Commander, and I'll bet many people played through the whole campaign without even noticing the ability to control the Enterprise flight-sim style. It's a shame, because it seems like one of the genres that would really benefit a lot from modern graphics. So, what happened to it?

    --
    I am trolling
    1. Re:Flight Sims by zeoslap · · Score: 4, Informative

      See it wasn't a niche peripheral, you're showing your age, or lack of it. On the C64, Amiga, Sinclair Spectrum etc in the 80s the joystick was THE way to control things.

    2. Re:Flight Sims by Creepy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Joysticks were always a niche peripheral really - keyboard/mouse is much better for FPS, and though fighting games use joysticks in the arcade, it's a lot easier to combo with a digital pad

      ugh, no, wrong.
      The mouse wasn't even mass marketed until Xerox Star in 1981. Joysticks (for games) evolved out of paddle technology - basically, they combined two paddles.

      Early FPS's actually did it wrong - there was no mouse look, you'd use the joystick or keyboard to look and target (partially because the mouse was not ubiquitous). 2D games hinted toward mouselook, but it really didn't appear until one of Carmack's games (Quake?). I was essentially using mouse look for a flight simulator I was working on at the time (on a mac that had no joystick) and was already doing that, so I didn't find it that revolutionary (expected evolutionary in my mind), but many reviewers did. Incidentally, anyone that had played Space Battle on the Intellivision would be instantly at home with mouselook.

      The joystick decline started probably with the Intellivision, which used a disc controller, and the nintendo with its D-Pad controller, which were cheaper to manufacture and less prone to stress failure (joysticks are levers, so the smaller the lever, the less the force). ColecoVision used a short lever, but even that had failure problems (I broke mine twice in 6 months and never broke an Intellivision controller). Gamepad controllers do some things well, joysticks other things. I personally find it easier to do rolling actions with a joystick because a gamepad doesn't naturally redirect momentum (i.e. half-circle and full circle moves in fighting games).

      The other problem with joysticks was that flight simulators have much different needs than game controllers, and adding controls capable of yaw, pitch and roll, throttle, and buttons mapped to keys made for a much bulkier and expensive control. Basically, joysticks forked to bulky flight sim controllers and small cheap D-Pad controllers, which are essentially joysticks without a lever.
  6. What happened to the Joystick? by AKAImBatman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It was an inferior control device for home consoles. The joystick is only an effective controller when it's properly secured into a solid base. e.g. An arcade machine. When translated to home use, it tended to be detached from a solid base and thus suffered. The 2600 CX40s used a wide base to attempt to combat this problem, but a player still applied torque to his own hands when using the joystick. The CX24 Prolines that were included with the Atari 7800 were that much worse. It was physically straining to use the joysticks properly due to the narrow base.

    The only company that produced a worse home joystick was Coleco. Their joystick was so small, you needed to palm it to use it. Palming the stick resulted in even MORE torque, thus making gaming very tiring despite the wide base.

    At the end of the day, the gamepad was a superior control device for home consoles. It met the needs of the average game better, thus relegating joysticks to arcade and flight-sim use only.

  7. I blame IBM. by iansmith · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The IBM PC had no joystick ports and as it became the dominant gaming platform over machines from Commodore and Atari the inexpensive, simple 8-way joystick was abandoned to be replaced by expensive sound cards and complicated joysticks.

    I find it sad that entire genres of gaming became extinct with it.

    Only now are flash games reviving the idea of simple, but fun games.

    It's funny that in 2008 there are tons of games being developed that play with.... a keyboard!

    ASDF!

  8. Re:The joystick is alive and well. by hansamurai · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I've always considered those thumbsticks. When I hear joystick I look back fondly at the days of Tie Fighter or Falcon 3.0 where you grasped the joystick with your entire hand and it had multiple buttons built in on it and on the base. I really felt like I was controlling the aircraft when using a joystick. Nowadays when using thumbsticks I usually have to configure the game to inverse the Y-axis, something that seems so obvious to me since I grew up using joysticks but it must not be that common anymore.

  9. What happened was... by Sinbios · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It got too expensive. I recently looked into purchasing an USB arcade joystick for use with 2D fighter games, and the only ones worth looking at (X-Arcade, Hori) cost about $100, for a single controller. In comparison, a new PS2 can be had now for $130. $100 is just too much to shell out for a gaming peripheral.

    --
    Anyone can "stand up for what they believe", but it takes a very brave individual to change what they believe. - Loundry
  10. Lack of games by ThePyro · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Joysticks have gone out of style because we haven't had a new Descent game in almost a decade. Similarly, the last great space combat sim was Freespace 2. There are probably some chicken-and-egg issues as well. You don't buy a joystick if you haven't a game to go with it, and you don't buy appropriate games if you don't have a joystick.

  11. Happy Memories by kieran · · Score: 5, Funny

    I was at some sort of huge fair along with my air cadet squadrons one summer many moons ago, and one of the other squadrons in attendence had brought along a 3/4 scale model spitfire, you could sit in it and everything.

    There was a breakfast television crew wandering around filming and some hot blonde TV presenter was being shown said spitfire and helped to climb into it. Upon trying to sit down down in the cockpit she suddenly finds her way impeded and asks the cadet sergeant "Oops! What's this between my legs?"

    Cadet Sergeant, with big grin: "That's the joy stick". Cue red-faced presenter and much laughter.

    I don't think that bit ever made it on the telly...

  12. Fine motor control and accuracy by Alzheimers · · Score: 4, Interesting

    There's something to be said about the fine motor control that the fingers are capable of that can't be easily replicated by the entire arm. Joysticks require a steady hand and a working surface you can rest your arms on so they don't tire, while the smaller analog sticks of today only require the thumbs to rest on them. They're best used in situations that simulate Joysticks in real life, such as in flying simulators. They don't translate nearly as well to the (mostly) 2D movement in an FPS as a simple crosspad does because most movement in those environments don't require analog sensitivity. A joystick requires much more of a response to achieve the same results.

    That being said, the immersive qualities of holding the joystick while leading an enemy target is much greater than the simple twitch movements that most games rely on today, as well as improved dexterity when using both large and small muscle groups at the same time (see also: autoaim). If anything replaced the joystick it's the mouse, not the analog stick. It's much more comfortable to use, requires less effort to achieve the same sensitivity, and is much more ubiquitous (imagine trying to use a joystick to move the Windows mouse).

  13. The good old days by FuzzyDaddy · · Score: 4, Interesting
    One of my favorite games as a kid was Battlezone. It had two joysticks that only moved forwards and backwards. There was something about that huge, wireframe landscape that was really appealing. And the two handed control really worked well.

    Of course, the first really good non-joystick action/puzzle game I played was Lode Runner. You used the keyboard. The left hand controlled movement with six keys, and the right hand controlled actions with six keys. You rested your hand on the keyboard. It worked sort of like xevil. It was surprisingly easy to get the hang of.

    --
    It's not wasting time, I'm educating myself.