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Xbox DRM and the Red Ring of Death
manekineko2 writes "In the latest case warning of the perils of investing in DRM'd media, an owner of an Xbox 360 reports that after his Xbox suffered the infamous Red Ring of Death, it was replaced by a new system with a different serial number. Upon receiving his replacement, he found that he could only access the media he had purchased from a specific account. He also received the run-around for months from customer service before his case was escalated, only to be informed that there is no ETA for a resolution, there is no way to receive status updates on the process, and there is no compensation that will be granted. Given claims that the Xbox 360 defect rate is as high as 1 in 3, has anyone on Slashdot gone through this as well after getting their system exchanged?" Update: 02/14 17:11 GMT by Z : An emailing user noted that the original summary was not very accurate; rephrased to be more in-line with the situation.
You call them. They give you the points you've spent on a temporary XBox Live account, you redownload the software.
After that they'll run fine not logged in on the 360, or on other 360s logged in with the original account.
Its a pain in the ass -- I've had to do it twice, but its not nearly how the story makes it sound.
Don't buy restrictive DRM. Wii shopping and Xbox live content will only survive as long as your warranty and current machine. Otherwise you will be shelling out to have the manufacturer fix the machine, in some corner cases even if you followed their rules you lose content.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
Everything this guy says is totally wrong. He is the world's biggest fanboy. And he drives a pink jetta.
I do agree somewhat with your sentiment.. I have a very hard time sympathizing with anyone (don't mark me troll but I'm going to say it!) stupid enough to purchase DRM'd media from Microsoft. They've consistently shown that they can't be trusted to keep your content usable over the long term- the PlaysForSure fiasco alone should have driven anyone intelligent away from xbox live.
To my understanding, the points they give you are equal to what you spent, but not earmarked. That is, you get an equivalent value of content, but if you no longer like what you purchased you can get other media in exchange.
Which seems like a reasonable perk to extend to people who have to go through that rigormorale.
Your ad here. Ask me how!
Uh... no... RTFA...
I'm not saying it's not a problem... it is... You get the same situation if you try to upgrade to an Elite or a unit with HDMI as well (and MS doesn't reimburse you points for that) But you're not 100% cut off from your media (You just have to be logged in...all the time... like even during XBox Live downtimes...).
So he didn't lose his content at all. He access it using the original purchasing profile while signed into XBox Live. I do realize that this is not perfect, but it's also far from inaccessible.
Personally, I only use one profile that automatically signs into XBL, so the only time this would affect would be when my internet is out. Granted, that's not how it works for every user, but I would guess that this is how it works for most of them. It could use some fixing, but in the meantime it's usable.
All MS really needs to do is come up with some way to import the console specific settings during the replacement process. They'be been pretty good about releasing updates to the console as well as the games, and if this is a widespread problem I'm sure it will get addressed. Hopefully sooner, rather than later.
The good news though is that maybe this will spur them to create an import process for the next console. Afterall, they'll probably have a torch carrying mob storming Redmond if you can't play the content you downloaded onto your 360 on the next-gen MS console.
"Life's short and hard, like a body building elf." -- The Bloodhound Gang
What happened to me:
1.) Red ring of death (fuck you, Microsoft).
2.) TAKE HARD DRIVE OFF CONSOLE. Send in console for repair.
3.) Get different console with different serial number back. Place hard drive on it.
4.) Console wants to verify my Live account online. Go for it.
5.) All content accessible.
So I'm not really sure what happened to this guy.
How do you know? Maybe he does the hokey-pokey before snubbing game consoles?
I've been through 2 360s and each time MS have turned it round into a positive experience for me, as the first time they told me to make a new free silver account and they'd credit the points to that account so I could rebuy and they did this within 3 days which is fine, whilst some may argue the console shouldn't die in the first place I got a there and then swap out from the retailer, furthermore I was given £30 worth of MS points for my troubles.
The second time it happened I got one of the new Falcon chipset 360s with HDMI which is a great thing for me in the first place as my monitor wont do 1080p over analog VGA so I finally got the option to run at 1080p with this new console. They also now have a set procedure for porting ownership of content to a new console and have done for a fair while whereby you merely submit your new console ID and a scan/fax of the replacement receipt from the retailer and they'll port the content ownership to the new system. Again, I was given a free 2100 points, not as much as last time but still something.
So the second time I got a sweet new V2 console and both times I got nice fresh new controllers and headsets which is a bonus as those type of things get a bit worn and tatty after a while anyway.
Should the system fail? Well of course not, but to suggest the process with dealing with faulty consoles is a big deal I think is a bit silly, having known 2 other people with RROD'd 360s who have also had similar experiences to me in that it's been quick and easy. Of course people have bad support experiences, personally I'd never purchase from Dell ever again as the result of such an experience but with bad support experiences on the net it's very easy to bend the truth a little, as I say what strikes me as odd is my last console was dealt with about 3 months ago and when I called support they were well aware of the issue and also the set procedure I mentioned they now have for dealing with DRM moves (rather than the previous aformentioned method of granting you points to rebuy on a new account to re-tie the games to a new console).
Besides, I'm not sure why this is news, the V2 consoles have been out ages now so the RROD whine is rather obsolete and I'm rather suprised to see last years whine making headlines again, aren't we supposed to be laughing at MS about how HD-DVD failed or something instead now?
Don't get me wrong, no DRM at all would be the best solution but let's face it, how many people would just copy games onto memory cards and pass round to their mates? Hell, you can even get memory card/360 hard drive to USB adapters so likely people would just grab them off bittorrent! I'm against DRM on a PC because it's a failed concept but on a console I see it as part of the package and in a way, one of the main tools consoles have for defeating cheating that is a major issue in online PC gaming.
Actually, they don't do this any more.
It's no longer "policy" by Microsoft to give you MS points to cover the DLC you can't use any more.
Apparently, according to comments on the Consumerist article, they stopped doing that sometime in October or November last year.
I think that's reprehensible.
In Soviet Russia, I ruled you
According to the article, this happened recently (Feb 2008). However Microsoft has had a solution for DRM problems on consoles replaced through warranty repair since May or June of 2007. I don't think they publicize it like they should, but the last time I went through repair was June and the process was brand new so maybe they do better now.
Anyway, it works like this:
- Your Xbox 360 breaks. You call support, schedule a repair, and send it in. KEEP YOUR HARD DRIVE (though this only matters if you care about your save games)
- You receive your replacement console 1-3 weeks later.
- You drill down in your account information off of the Marketplace blade to find your Download History.
- You go through your download history, re-downloading each DRM-protected piece of content you wish to be able to use offline on your new console.
- The downloads go extremely quickly, because you kept your hard drive. You're not actually re-downloading the whole content (that would suck for a 6GB Xbox Original game, for example). Instead, you're just downloading a new key that will sign the content to the new console ID.
As of right now, this process is only available if you go through the official Microsoft repair process (in warranty, or for $100 out of warranty). If you use a store replacement warranty, take advantage of a store's lenient return policy like CostCo used to have, or replace the console yourself (because you want to upgrade, or you hacked your console and it won't make it through official repairs), you're screwed. The rekeying process requires manual intervention to invalidate the old console ID and set up the content to retrieve a new key when you download it again.Yes, it's a rather tedious process and it would be great if there was a "Download all premium content again" option to make it go quicker, but that's beside the point. The only value to this article is to show that customer support agents can suck. But we all knew that already, right?
Say you have Rock Band, and you buy a bunch of DLC tracks. If you get 3 friends over, you can play those tracks in a band. Cool.
Then your Xbox dies and you get it replaced. If I'm reading this stuff correctly, then when you try to do the above, it won't work. Because now, only the purchasing profile (yours) has the rights to use the DLC. No more DLC for your band unless your three friends have bought the tracks on their own live accounts. This goes for anything that is multiplayer, including Live Arcade games. You'll only be able to play trial versions if you have friends over.
Obviously, this is not acceptable.
In your specific case, it may not be inaccessible. However, in my case it is. If you have other people using your 360 with their own gamertags, only the gamertag that PURCHASED the content from the XBox Marketplace is allowed to use it. Also, it only works if you are connected to the internet on your 360.
Unfortunately, I purchased many of the arcade games for my kids, who have their own gamertags. Now they can no longer play the titles.
This is a HUGE problem in my opinion, and I've been screwed over by Microsoft regarding this issue since August, 2007. I have called them on multiple occasions, and they have even called me once. Unfortunately every single interaction results in them saying that it will be fixed, but that they have no idea when.
This can also be translated to: Screw you, we took your money and we don't have to do anything to help you now.
I really like the games on the 360, but stuff like this is very very frustrating. There seems to be no recourse that can be taken in order to get your points refunded, or the games reactivated on the console. I've spent a decent amount of money on downloadable content... maybe $150 - $200. Maybe they just don't want to bother, but I sure won't be buying any more until the problem is fixed.
If anyone HAS had success with this, I'd really like to know how you went about getting the problem resolved.
I can absolutely confirm I've experienced the same run around.
I received a replacement console after the red rings of death. I immediately called support regarding my content that no longer worked (without being logged in), went through a bunch of steps to confirm I couldn't get it to work (which was ridiculous - they MUST know that it wasn't going to work) and was then told I would be called back within a few days.
They never called, so I called them back. The same routine happened for about a month, with me calling back once a week. I had to start berating the support personnel and their powerless "supervisors" as they all continued to respond "be assured we are working on this and will have it resolved as soon as possible". No - you are NOT working on it - please stop the lies.
I finally talked to one support person that said "oh yeah, I don't know what those other guys were thinking, they logged your case completely wrong, I'll get this taken care of immediately, you shouldnt have had to wait this long. I schedule a call back with you on Monday to confirm". He went so far as to set up a specific 3 hour time period when I would receive the call back. Which of course never happened.
After going through these weekly calls of yelling at their useless "support" for a few months, I wrote to Major Nelson pleading my case (I don't know him personally, it was a desperation attempt). He sent my case number to someone in "escalations" who actually DID call me back. I thought I was finally getting somewhere. Within a week I got a call from someone in engineering confirming my console ID and serial number. Things looked promising.
That was 2 months ago.
My content has STILL not been unlocked.
And no, nobody was willing to give me points to re-buy the content. If they used to do that, they sure don't anymore.
I WAS a fanboy. The 360 and XBox Live were a great product. However, this is the absolute WORST customer experience I have ever had with any company, hands down. Because of their complete incompetence and unwillingness to resolve my issue, they have destroyed their image, and made me want to tell everyone I know about how bad their support is. Please spread the word.