Pakistan Blocks YouTube

Multiple readers have written to tell us of news that Pakistan has ordered its ISPs to block access to YouTube "for containing blasphemous web content/movies." This follows increasing unrest in Pakistan over a Danish newspaper's reprinting of cartoons which depict Islam in a less-than-favorable light. The cartoons also sparked controversy when they were first published a few years ago.

Comments

Lets bring these people up to speed

[Anonymous Coward]

We really need to bring these people up to speed with the 21st century. What's the best way to do it? Just start trading with them like anyone else, it's not their fault that they are a bunch of ignorant, gullible sheep (cue the "omg its like teh USA!!!1" comments).

Yes it will take time to achieve any results, but economic prosperity and theism are inversely related, and theism in places like Pakistan is really fucked up and needs to be eliminated or at least marginalized.

Re:Lets bring these people up to speed

[Wonko the Sane]

Remind me what is wrong with circumcision?

The kids don't get to decide if they want a perfectly healthy part of their body removed.

Re:Lets bring these people up to speed

[rucs_hack]

The best thing that could be done with Pakistan is to raise the number of books people read.

Many people there, if they read at all, read religious texts only.

That's your problem. If they had a wider experience in the written word, they wouldn't be so easily led by Clerics with an agenda.

Re:Lets bring these people up to speed

[melikamp]

People do not like to admit it about genocide, but if you do it thoroughly, then it actually works, i.e. solves all problems relating to the unpleasant minority, once and for all. You know what is really ironic? That USians modded the parent +funny, whereas it really should be +insightful. Once you get it into your head that it is your Progress-given mission to bring some sovereign people into the 21-st century, genocide is an obvious answer. Bush would wipe Iraq clean if he could, a long time ago (he obviously does not give a shit about 1M Iraqis, almost all of them civilians, dieing due to war, why would he care about 25M?), but US is not powerful enough to do that with conventional weapons, nor does it have enough clout to get away with it.

How about, instead of "bringing Arabs democracy" and "liberating them from an archaic religion", you liberate them from economic oppression and let them decide what to do with their own oil? Switch to alternative energy sources, perhaps? Develop a defensive military strategy, which should work just fine, as you are on your own frigging continent? Just my 2 cents.

Re:Lets bring these people up to speed

[garett_spencley]

Study after study has found no significant health benefits sufficient enough to warrant circumcision. The American Medical Association no longer recommends the procedure and Ontario Public Health Care no longer pays for it.

It is technically true that cases of penile cancer are virtually unheard of in males with circumcision, but then again, penile cancer is SO RARE to begin with that it even begs the question of whether or not the sample size is large enough to be conclusive.

And of course, like the other poster pointed out, the children have no say in whether or not a perfectly healthy part of their body is permanently removed.

Re:Lets bring these people up to speed

[@madeus]

So... why is male genital mutilation still acceptable in the USA? That's certainly something that illudes me.

I'm leaning towards "the parents who do that do their children are ignorant and unthinking, and don't realize it's a practice that's consider barbaric - and is illegal - in more enlightened European countries" and "the commercial nature of the US healthcare system has lead to hospitals routinely carry out entirely unnecessary cosmetic surgery - even when it's harmful to the patient - because it's profitable".

Religious zealots have certainly managed to brainwash the US populace on this one, to convince them it's a "morally acceptable" practice, even a humorous thing to discuss if you've had your genitals mutilated. In reality, it's an outdated, entirely unnecessary, damaging and irreparable act of barbarism - IMO anyone carrying out this practice on children should be locked up (and, if a medical practitioner, have their license permanently revoked).

If grown adults want to have this procedure carried out on themselves then, apart from undergoing some counciling, they may as well be allowed to have it carried out by someone qualified. If indeed grown adults were left to make the decision for themselves, I think the percentage of people who would volunteer for this practice would be tiny and the industry around it would almost completely die out in the US (apart from within certain specific religious groups).

Fat chance of much change on that front happening in the US though.

Here in the UK it's illegal to carry out the practice, with a caveat: When it can be proven before a judge that a the child is likely to suffer as a result and both parents agree they want it carried out (e.g. if the child is Jewish or Muslim and likely to be teased, harassed or singled out by their cultural peers and so in some way negatively impacted as a result of the operation not being carried out) then it may be carried out (but Doctors or Surgeons are not obligated to carry it out, and may refuse to do it, that it's a violation of the Hippocratic Oath being a common citation as grounds for refusal).

While I can appreciate on the surface this is an attempt to reach some pragmatic accommodation, I think this is the wrong approach and the law needs to be changed here too. I don't see medically unnecessary cosmetic surgery on children's genitals as acceptable, full stop. It's systematic of the UK justice system though - in the eyes of the populace the government rarely deals with the perpetrators of crimes directly or appropriately - it's easier just to tell the rest of us to change our behaviors to fit in with however they have redefined the problem.

Re:Lets bring these people up to speed

[letxa2000]

...he obviously does not give a shit about 1M Iraqis, almost all of them civilians, dieing due to war

That number is not generally considered credible except by extreme leftists where the number benefits their agenda. Calculating deaths by polling is rather absurd.

but US is not powerful enough to do that with conventional weapons,

Actually, we probably are powerful enough to level the main population centers indiscriminately with conventional weapons. I'm glad we haven't done so, though.

nor does it have enough clout to get away with it.

I would hope no-one has enough clout to get away with genocide.

People do not like to admit it about genocide, but if you do it thoroughly, then it actually works,

Just because it might work doesn't mean the ends justify the means.

Develop a defensive military strategy, which should work just fine, as you are on your own frigging continent?

Because we had a defensive military strategy and we were still hit hard on 9/11, even though we're on our own friggin' continent.

Re:Lets bring these people up to speed

[Wonko the Sane]

Education has a lot more impact on a child. Nutrition. Home life. Television.

You can recover from all of those. You can't (yet) regrow parts of the body that have been surgically removed.

Re:Lets bring these people up to speed

[Skim123]

The best thing that could be done with Pakistan is to raise the number of books people read.

First things first: let's help raise the literacy rate. You've really got to respect the work being done by the Central Asia Institute, as they are building non-fundamentalist schools in rural Pakistan and Afghanistan, with schools especially targeted to girls. In a perfect world, our government would cut the spending on armament and give the decrease to the CAI to build schools. That's the best long-term strategy to solving fundamentalism, IMO.

Re:Lets bring these people up to speed

[Tore S B]

Because the male equivalent of female genital mutilation is removing the glans penis. And that's a tad more horrible than something doctors can't even agree on whether is bad or not.

I don't think circumcision makes any sense, but I think it trivializes female genital mutilation to suggest that they're anywhere in the same league of badness.

Cover Story

[pinkocommie]

The danish thing has been going on for a while, it took them this long to ban it for that?
Otoh there were elections a few days ago and there were multiple clips about rigging that happened in the election.
Forward to 1:20 or just search for pakistan rigging
What's the more probable cause for the ban?

Re:Screw Mohammed.

[rustalot42684]

Fuck you. Banning Youtube is stupid, but that doesn't mean that Islam itself is bad. There are lots of tolerant Muslim people out there.

Ignoring the differences between the two...

[Quiet_Desperation]

Why is presenting "Bad Thing B" in answer to "Bad Thing A" still considered a acceptable method of debate?

Re:End Religion and End Human Suffering!

[CRCulver]

Religion is also a large part of the reason for suppression of knowledge, increases in fear and the idea that "ideas are dangerous.

Yeah, religion is evil. Just look at those religious wackos like Stalin and Brezhnev who killed millions and sent more to death camps or psychiatric hospitals just for reading the wrong books Oh wait, they were atheists. Well, I guess religion hasn't been the single greatest force for murder and oppression in the last century after all.

The statistics speak for themselves. Between the Soviet Union and China, many more died for Communism than because of religious violence.

By the way, have you considered that to wipe out religion, you'd have to engage in the same techniques of suppression of knowledge that you condemn? But it's all for the good of society, so it's OK, right? :rolleyes:

Re:Screw Mohammed.

[ushering05401]

"Where are they hiding?"

In plain sight. By virtue of not being fanatical jihad-monkeys they tend to blend in pretty well with their surroundings just like peaceful Jews, Christians, Wiccans, etc..

Or did you not know that Muslims can look just like anyone else, speak reasonably, and contribute positively to their communities in unassuming and humble manners?

Hell, if nothing else it is nice having Muslims in your community because their bodegas are open on Christian holidays. Try getting out in the real world once in a while.

This is about politics, not religion.

[mellon]

I know the reason they /gave/ is that YouTube content is blasphemous, but what they /didn't/ tell you is that there have been a lot of really embarrassing videos on YouTube recently. One you might have seen in the news was the one where they showed that there was a gunshot before the explosion that officially was supposed to have killed Benazir Buttho. But it's my understanding that there have been a lot of videos that are /personally/ embarrassing to politicians in Islamabad as well, and this is more probably the motivation behind the ban.

It serves all the sitting politicians' interests to paint this as a religious thing (including the Bush government); it's up to us to try to see through the propaganda.

Re:Screw Mohammed.

[ushering05401]

"And yet from these supposedly assimilated folks a disturbingly large amount of funding flows to the Middle East, and they don't seem to protest much when Wahhabi hate literature starts to be distributed in their community."

Immigrant populations send money home and will continue to do so until exchange rates don't make it profitable to come live in western nations while supporting families elsewhere. Most of that money is going to families who are trying to make do in their ancestral homeland, not terrorist organizations.

As for hate literature, I have yet to see this happen in my community. On the contrary there are minimum two major interfaith events a year co-sponsored by the largest local mosque and the largest local synagogue not to mention the year end Unitarian celebration that includes Buddhists, Jews, Muslims, Christians, and anyone else who wants to attentd.

All I have to cite for you is my personal experience gathered while living across the USA in places like L.A., N.Y.C., and now New England. Each of these places has visible Muslim populations, and the examples of interfaith cooperation are everywhere for anyone who cares to look.

The only really dangerous experience I have had with a religious group was with the 'Black Israelites' in NYC. And anyone who has dealt with them will tell you that there homegrown religious threats as virulent as any imported Muslim variety.

Re:Religion and its leaders

[Deadstick]

Here in The Netherlands we had a nice one last night, around 01:00 in the night one of the public broadcasters decided to air the old Deep Throat movie, in (eager?) anticipation quite a few religious leaders protested as if they did not have an off button on their TV

They knew perfectly well they had an off button on their TV. They were angry because they didn't have an off button connected to your TV.

rj

Not "a" Danish newspaper

[Per Abrahamsen]

It was all of them this time, unlike the first time the were printed. The cartoon in question was the "bomb in turban" drawing from the top of the original article. The were reprinted as a reaction to an alleged murder plot against the cartoonist.

I'm not sure what kind of reasoning will lead anyone to attempt to murder somebody for insinuating that their prophet inspire violent behavior. By doing so, they just prove the cartoonist right.

Re:Islam - Always Used to Getting its Own Way

[jdfox]

>Nowhere did I claim the whole community was radicalized

You might not have meant to, but you did. Both here and here, you referred to entire religious communities, or a monolithic "they". Do you not see the danger of this habit? As a member of the Christian community, do you wish to be included in the "they" of Timothy McVey, George Habash, August Kreis, the Army of God, the Lord's Resistance Army, etc.?

Not provocation, solidarity

[NIckGorton]

The cartoons were published by many Danish papers after the police foiled a plot to murder the cartoonist. By publishing these cartoons, the papers were stating something important: we stand in solidarity, we don't give in to bullies, and the sword will never be mightier than the pen.

Disgusted by Pakistan AND Slashdot

[oceaniv]

I've been lurking on these boards for about two-three years and the amount of hatred and ignorance on these boards whenever something that has to do with "Islam" comes up is just plain disgusting. Captain Obvious says: 1. A vicious dictatorship, which has recently been accused of the murder of one of the most prominent politicians in the world (Bhutto), decides to ban an important source of information (youtube) from their citizens... (Go see the number of Pakistani political movies on Bhutto's death) 2. They use Islam as an scapegoat to justify their actions so as divert/dilute attention from their personal political motivation by passing on the "blame" to the larger (1 billion) Muslim community 3. At the moment of reading "Islam" and "censor" the so-called freedom-sensitive western slashdotter abandons all rational thought and begins foaming at the mouth. Good job Slashdotters, your intelligence (or rather lack of) is blinding.