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Cisco Lawyer Outs Self As "Patent Troll Tracker"

DustyShadow writes "Slashdot previously discussed the $10,000 bounty (since raised to $15,000) that was put on the identity of the Patent Troll Tracker author by a law firm that represents patent holding 'shell' companies. After he received a threatening email last week, the author identified himself as Richard Frenkel, a director in Cisco Systems' intellectual property group. According to law.com, many patent litigators have followed the Troll Tracker closely and are worried that it may now be discontinued. According to the lawyer who offered the bounty, it has not been claimed."

62 comments

  1. Bounty by The+Ancients · · Score: 5, Funny

    Does he get it if he outed himself?

    1. Re:Bounty by The+Mighty+Buzzard · · Score: 3, Funny

      He'd better, it's usually a bad idea to stiff a lawyer.

      --
      Violence is like duct tape. If it doesn't solve the problem, you didn't use enough.
    2. Re:Bounty by yog · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Shame, it sounds like he was making a valuable contribution to the discussion on patent reform. I read his blog but I still don't understand why he outed himself. What could this anonymous person have done to him that could possibly be "unpleasant"?

      Someone please explain :(

      I hope we can get rid of patent trolls soon, they really annoy me!

      --
      it's = "it is"; its = possessive. E.g., it's flapping its wings.
    3. Re:Bounty by trolltalk.com · · Score: 1

      1. Forward the link
      2. PROFIT!!!
      3. there is no step 3.
    4. Re:Bounty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To bad he didn't contact them first for the money and then out himself; I really like this business model and think more of us should consider it.

      ab_iron

    5. Re:Bounty by provigilman · · Score: 4, Informative

      What could this anonymous person have done to him that could possibly be "unpleasant"?

      RTFA dude...

      From the Article:

      Facing an e-mailed threat of being named, Richard Frenkel, a director in Cisco Systems' intellectual property group, identified himself on Saturday as the author of Patent Troll Tracker

      Someone probably found out who he was, and may have even been trying to extort money...something like "I'll get 15K for saying who you are, you pay me 5K and I'll keep quiet."

      At the very least though, he basically got an e-mail saying "Richard, I know who you are...come clean, or I WILL".

      --
      "Life's short and hard, like a body building elf." -- The Bloodhound Gang
    6. Re:Bounty by orclevegam · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually he had been told that if he revealed himself and did a public debate with the guy offering the bounty that the money would be donated to a charity (I believe of his choice, but not sure). According to TFA he hasn't responded to that offer either before or after he outed himself.

      --
      Curiosity was framed, Ignorance killed the cat.
    7. Re:Bounty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      "The clear threat in the email is that he would do it in a way I wouldn't be happy about. I don't know what that means, but as I have been growing weary of anonymity anyway, here I am" ... RTFB

    8. Re:Bounty by baboo_jackal · · Score: 4, Funny

      I wonder what Ray Niro (the Patent Troll) could possibly expect the outcome of that debate to be...

      "Let me explain to you how abusing the patent system is a 'Good Thing,' because it prevents me from being poor... And you won't like me when I'm poor... *starts turning green and growing*"

      I dunno. That's all I could come up with.

    9. Re:Bounty by libkarl2 · · Score: 1

      I don't think anyone is going to collect on the bounty, even if they do come forward. or... Niro secretly paid the informant, and simply claimed that nobody came forward to collect (as part of a possible precondition). Heck, the "threatening email" could have been a simple social engineering trick by someone who suspected Frenkel but wasn't 100% sure. Actually, Godzilla wanted Frenkel out of the way so he could go ahead with an infringement suit against the Cloverfield Monster. "Use of Deep Ocean Originating Monsterous Rampage in Wreaking Havoc on Major Metropolitan Area while being attacked by military aircraft operated by idiots who love to fly close enough to be chomped out of mid-air".

      --
      You are where you are at the time you are there.
    10. Re:Bounty by sm62704 · · Score: 1

      is there a patent on this troll? It must certainly have a copyright. Maybe Tami should sue; it bears an uncanny resemblance to her. Except she's usually not smiling and she has more hair.

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
    11. Re:Bounty by Minwee · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "I'll get 15K for saying who you are, you pay me 5K and I'll keep quiet."

      Of course what he really meant was "I'll get $15K for saying who you are. You pay me $5K and then I'll have $20K in total."

    12. Re:Bounty by Citizen+of+Earth · · Score: 1

      "I'll get $15K for saying who you are. You pay me $5K and then I'll have $20K in total."

      And now, by going for the $20K, he gets nothing.

    13. Re:Bounty by Oktober+Sunset · · Score: 1

      A flash anim where he floats out of Goatse guys buthole I assume.

    14. Re:Bounty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I stiff my lawyer all the time. She loves it.

  2. Sad by Steeltalon · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I can only hope that this doesn't ruin the guy's career at Cisco. His actions have probably helped many businesses and products but I have to wonder if he may have violated the terms of his employment. I hope not, at any rate.

    --
    Regards, Ian
    1. Re:Sad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can only hope that this doesn't ruin the guy's career at Cisco. His actions have probably helped many businesses and products but I have to wonder if he may have violated the terms of his employment.

      If it does, it does. At least by terminating a fairly public person for stupid shit, Cisco would hilight how stupid their employment terms are, and people would be less likely to work there.

    2. Re:Sad by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 1

      I'd say he added valuable input to the community in the profession he followed. If I were a Cisco exec, I'd be pleased to take credit for it and honour his disclaimer. IANAL but sometimes I try to think like one.

      --
      Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
    3. Re:Sad by sjames · · Score: 4, Insightful

      He is an experianced lawyer, I'm sure he considered that very carefully before even starting his blog.

    4. Re:Sad by microbee · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well, his direct manager knew about this, so he cannot be in violation of his terms of employment. I mean, if he did, and his manager was still OK, it's his manager's fault more than his own, and if Cisco fires him, he could sue the heck out of this, couldn't he?

      Now, I said the above purely from a logistical point. Having worked at Cisco before (as an engineer), I feel Cisco is a pretty open-cultured company, and given the positive publicity of this blog, I'm pretty sure Cisco wouldn't mind it.

    5. Re:Sad by orclevegam · · Score: 5, Insightful

      TFA says Cisco has gone on record as saying that employees are allowed to have private blogs so long as they follow the business code of conduct. So, short of violating some law, or trying to claim Cisco is somehow involved they'll leave him alone to do his thing.

      --
      Curiosity was framed, Ignorance killed the cat.
    6. Re:Sad by networkBoy · · Score: 1

      Which is good.
      I try to be careful and simply don't blog about charged subjects related to my industry.
      GP noted that his manager knew and did not stop him, in CA that is grounds for telling the employee to stop and firing the manager (if they want to go that far), but since the manager tacitly OK'd it, then they can not fire the employee, else the employee will be very wealthy via the court system.
      -nB

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
    7. Re:Sad by Ziest · · Score: 1

      I second that. I have also worked at Cisco as an engineer. Cisco is a very big fan of Linux and FreeBSD. You can count Cisco as among the white hats. You can also be sure that Rick Frenkel cleared this with his management and they support him.

      --
      Another day closer to redwood heaven
    8. Re:Sad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm pretty sure I'm uncomfortable with the fact that it's noteworthy that a company has gone on record saying that "employees are allowed to have private blogs".

      I mean... how could they NOT? What business does the company have telling its employees what they can or cannot do in their spare time? It's spelt e-m-p-l-o-y-e-e, not s-e-r-f.

    9. Re:Sad by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Lawyers are not logicians, they're law students.

  3. No bounty on the offerer of the first bounty? by Egdiroh · · Score: 1

    Gee, to me the obvious way to fight the sort of bullying that the offerer of the first bounty is to counter bully by offering a bounty on evidence of unethical activities by the guy that would get him disbarred or a bounty on prior art for patents specifically held by his company, and make the bounty good only as long as the first bounty is valid.

    1. Re:No bounty on the offerer of the first bounty? by somersault · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I agree! It's always best to blow everything out of all proportion and start an arms race!

      --
      which is totally what she said
    2. Re:No bounty on the offerer of the first bounty? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Send him a protector.

    3. Re:No bounty on the offerer of the first bounty? by somersault · · Score: 1

      It's Captain Antartica!

      --
      which is totally what she said
    4. Re:No bounty on the offerer of the first bounty? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not CmdrTaco after all the holiday dinners?

    5. Re:No bounty on the offerer of the first bounty? by Ogive17 · · Score: 1

      The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

      Seems somewhat fitting...

      --
      "Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
    6. Re:No bounty on the offerer of the first bounty? by Trogre · · Score: 1

      Bah, I knew the patent scene wasn't really a scene.

      --
      "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
  4. Depends. by jd · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If the patent trolls thought they could get away with dipping the dollar notes in poison (similar to what was done to Donald Woods' children), I'm sure they'd have no problem with paying him. Although they're stupid enough to destroy the patent system, I doubt they're that stupid. On the other hand, I could see them paying the reward to Cisco to dump the guy. Employment in the US is "by will" and there are no IT unions, so the employee has no protection against malicious termination of employment. (The patent trolls could, quite legally, make it extremely difficult for him to ever be hired again.)

    --
    It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    1. Re:Depends. by MasterC · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Employment in the US is "by will"...
      Unless, of course, the guy has an employment contract.
      --
      :wq
    2. Re:Depends. by kharchenko · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Can you please explain why running an informative blog on patent reform suddenly renders him unfit for employment. Did he disclose some private information that was trusted to him? Did he undermine the interests of his employer? How come noone would look at this and see a talented layer with a knack for identifying abusive patents?

    3. Re:Depends. by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Which, from a quick Google search of him and reading his blog and the comments of others in the patent litigation field, is quite likely. I doubt Cisco is going to dump their top IP lawyer because of some tool in Chicago wanting to out him.

    4. Re:Depends. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually at-will employement varies by state, but thanks for failing to remember that it's 50 states, not 1 massive country.

    5. Re:Depends. by Eskarel · · Score: 1

      He didn't do anything that renders him unfit for employment. However this is the united states we're talking about and while you might have to pay out a severence package if you do there's nothing legally to stop you from firing someone for pretty much any reason that doesn't violate affirmative action. Which is a bit odd I always thought. It's not ok to fire someone because they're a woman, but it's perfectly ok to fire a woman because you don't like the way she cuts her hair.

    6. Re:Depends. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      WTF? Yes, they are going to pay Cisco 15K to dump an employee. Cisco isn't a corner grocery. They're a BILLION dollar company....Hell, my company wouldn't fire an employee for that cash...because we are ethical. It' not even worth 15K of his bosses time to consider the question....What are you thinking?

      Bonus question: Explain how exactly patent trolls could make it hard for him to be hired again...What are they going to do, expose him as an IP lawyer who has some ethics?

      Your BS also ignores the fact that his boss knows about his blog! Don't just RTFA, actually think for 2 seconds before posting.

    7. Re:Depends. by jd · · Score: 2
      In the eyes of super-rich patent trolls, informative blogs are an extremely good reason to eliminate employment (and possibly the individual). There doesn't need to be a legitimate reason to sack someone - most employees sign papers stating that terminating employment needs no reason at all - and it doesn't take much for an organization to inject added commentary to background checks. Some "discrete" disqualifying comments (it's not as if individuals can get hold of those background check reports - or challenge entries if they are wrong) would make it hard for the guy ever getting another job.

      Of course, this depends on Cisco being pressured or bribed into letting the guy go. That's the challenge, as other posters have correctly noted that Cisco probably are under far greater threat from such trolls than most (especially with merging with companies like Scientific Atlanta, giving them IP for a much broader range of communications technologies), and they don't seem to have trolled much themselves (although this statement is retractable if I ever learn the guy who posted the PIX sourcecode on the Internet ever took up wearing concrete boots as a fashion accessory). I'm not keen on some of their decisions - there are a lot of proprietary Cisco protocols making true interoperability with Open Source routers impossible. Who knows what Cisco will do?

      The rest would be easy going after that. Companies often use similar tactics - either through the notoriously corrupt background check agencies or through one of the good-boys-club networks. Vetting agencies for Government work (in Britain or the US) are often no better, with plenty of reports of dubious or inaccurate information, information supplied by extremist groups such as the Economic League and other such fun. It's a marvel anyone ever gets hired at all.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    8. Re:Depends. by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Your BS also ignores the fact that his boss knows about his blog! Don't just RTFA, actually think for 2 seconds before posting.

      K, fine. You're a bunch of cock suckers, and my boss does not care that I'm letting everyone know. Was there a point to asking my name?

  5. Patent system is too expensive for taxpayers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Patent Troll Tracker said: ...the number of claims being examined has quintupled in recent years, while the average years of service of the examiner core has been decreasing.

    Clearly the US government and US taxpayers can no longer afford the patent system as it stands today. It must be changed, simplified, and streamlined to a level of activity that the taxpayer can afford, and is willing to pay for.

    1. Re:Patent system is too expensive for taxpayers by Corpuscavernosa · · Score: 4, Informative
      Correction. The patent system is self funded through filing fees. The real problem is that Congress is actually the taking of PTO funds to support other non-patent endeavors.

      As a consequence, examiners get burned out because of increased workload and the inability to become real subject-matter experts, and there's your lack of experience in examiners.

      I have three friends with scientific backgrounds who graduated law school in 2006-5 who immediately took jobs at the PTO. As of now, none are still working there, citing the above reasons.

      --
      We figured out a long time ago that it's easier to elect seven judges than to elect 132 legislators.
    2. Re:Patent system is too expensive for taxpayers by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't the "average years of service" also drop if the USPTO was increasing the size of the "examiner core" to match the increase in claims since the newbies, by definition, have zero years of service when they join?

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    3. Re:Patent system is too expensive for taxpayers by Retric · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That depends on the rate of increase and the rate of turn over.

      Start with 100 people av. 10 years exp.

      Over 1 year 4 people that average 10 years exp leave and 10 people with 0exp join. And the 96 people that stayed gained one year of experience.

      New average is (96 * 11)/105 = 10.06 years exp which is slight increase with a 5% annual growth rate.

  6. Do you know how little money $15K is to Cisco? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The reward was $15K (up from $10K). Somehow I don't think Cisco (annual revenue: about $35B) is going to dump a $250K/year patent lawyer, and then pay $500K to get a replacement hired and up to speed, AND piss off the rest of their staff, for $15K. They're more likely to give the guy a $15K bonus for supporting their position with the blog.

  7. To cduffy by kanweg · · Score: 1


    From the previous discussion on this subject on Slashdot:

    "Hmm -- that's a somewhat different scenario. See, I've spent the last five years at a startup (also in Austin) making highly specialized software that does some really darned nifty things within our vertical -- and among our company's assets are some patents. They certainly make it easier for us to get investment money -- so why do I think they're a bad idea?"

    I think it would also have been easier for you to get investment money if there were no software patents so your investors would know you didn't infringe.

    Bert
    (Patent agent who thinks software shouldn't be patentable)

  8. No good deed by TheDrewbert · · Score: 2, Insightful

    goes unpunished...

    --
    http://www.CelloFourteGroupie.net
  9. Destroying the patent system from the inside. by miffo.swe · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I think theese patent trolls are doing us a great service. Its just a matter of time before one of them get greedy and steps in the wrong wasps nest. If anything it shows with utter clarity that the EU should in no way allow software patents. The problems by far outweights the benefits since the patents are seldom used to produce something, they are just ownership of pretty obvious ideas. Most patents for software is just about doing something really old, but on a computer.

    I say the more patent trolls the better, let them ruin a broken system. The more companies that get burnt the more they will lobby for reform. Since the US is pretty much run by big companies thats the only way the politicians will do something.

    --
    HTTP/1.1 400
    1. Re:Destroying the patent system from the inside. by jmv · · Score: 1
  10. Cisco's interests by xant · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Moreover, his actions were very likely in Cisco's interests, and directly related to his job duties at Cisco. Cisco is not a patent troll afaik, they are more likely to be the victim of frequent patent trolling by companies wanting to profit from their products.

    Cisco probably patents a lot of stuff, but like most big patent holders, they presumably use them defensively.

    Feel free to do my research for me, but I say the above with a fair amount of confidence. :-)

    --
    It's rare that you're presented with a knob whose only two positions are Make History and Flee Your Glorious Destiny.
    1. Re:Cisco's interests by evanspw · · Score: 1

      Well, Cisco did once patent the base2 logarithm.

      --
      Interstitial spaces are filled with cream.
  11. Patent Trolls may not be violating laws now . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    . . . but a lot of laws will eventually be passed because of their actions . . .

  12. I am Spartacus by punterjoe · · Score: 1

    Now if only a few hundred more people would "confess" to being the Tracker, we could be back where we started. :)

    1. Re:I am Spartacus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  13. Wrong guy by Trogre · · Score: 4, Funny

    No I'm the Troll Tracker and so is my wife.

    --
    "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
    1. Re:Wrong guy by mengel · · Score: 1

      No, I'm Spartacus -- er -- Troll Tracker!

      --
      - "History shows again and again how nature points out the folly of men" -- Blue Oyster Cult, 'Godzilla'
  14. Idiot by adamkennedy · · Score: 4, Funny

    As an good EVE Online player knows, the optimal strategy when faced with a sizable bounty on your head is simply to create a new alt character on a trial account (if you aren't one of those crazy people with multiple accounts already), then log in both, fly the bounty out into space and then kill yourself with the alt to collect it.

    In real life, I guess the equivalent would be to find another instance of your DNA (family) or someone you trust otherwise (friends) and have them drop a "drama bomb" and out you.

    Once it's over, at least take their money!

  15. Sign me up by Travoltus · · Score: 1

    Make me the Patent Troll Tracker next week.

    There won't be a need for a third tracker.

    --
    --- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
  16. You are ALL wrong by unity100 · · Score: 1

    I am the troll tracker. Cisco lawyer is a friend of mine who agreed to take all the bullets for me for a while.